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8 Reasons Homeschooling Is Superior to Public Education (Most of Founding Fathers were Homeschooled)
Pajamas Media ^ | 11/17/2012 | Megan Fox

Posted on 11/18/2012 5:16:50 PM PST by SeekAndFind

This cartoon was drawn by a 16-year-old homeschooler.

The title of this article is polarizing and I expect to get in trouble for writing it. As a homeschooling parent, I’m not supposed to think homeschooling superior to institutionalized education. I’m supposed to take the stance that all choices are equal in the effort not to offend anyone who prefers public schooling. It’s a hot topic in the mommy circles and one that most homeschooling moms want to avoid. We all encounter the same comments and exclamations like, “How do you do it? When are you going to put them in real school? You must be crazy! How long do you plan to do this?” My personal favorite: “I could never do that!” This article is a response to all the times I’ve wanted to answer truthfully but held my tongue in order to preserve peace.

Disclaimer: Let it be understood that I believe in the freedom of every individual to choose how to raise their own children how they see fit. This does not prevent me from having an opinion as to the nature of public school and what state-run education inflicts on American children. This is based on personal experience and years of study and research. Further, many of you will argue that none of the examples in this article have ever happened to your child in your school. My answer is, not yet. I warn you, if you are a public schooling advocate and you continue to read this article you may become unhappy with your current choices and find yourself at a homeschooling conference and facing disapproval from your social circle. Read at your own risk.

8. Social Programming for Dummies.

Most people worry that homeschoolers aren’t properly “socialized,” whatever that means. As if uncivilized children should socialize each other (bad idea). Anyone who has read Lord of the Flies knows how that ends. And if the teachers are supposed to do the socializing, why can’t parents? Every homeschooling family I know (and that’s quite a few) has as many, if not more, extracurricular activities for their kids as everyone else. There are 4-H, Girl/Boy Scouts, Jiu Jitsu (that’s us), music lessons, art lessons, metal working, speech and debate, sports and more.

But the most important difference in home-school socialization is that the social values taught come from the parents instead of the state. During our lessons we learn about reading, writing, math, science, history, Bible, Christian character, and art. We spend absolutely zero time on fictional, apocalyptic “global warming.” We don’t preach at them about marriage “equality” or teach them how to put condoms on bananas. We do, however, teach them the nutritional value of bananas and how to be a good steward of the earth by composting the banana peel after we eat it. The state’s values have no effect on our children. When we teach history, we teach them the values of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams. We do not blather on endlessly about the supposed heroics of mass murderers like Che Guevara. Because of this difference, homeschooling parents produce inherently American children.

A person isn’t American simply because he was born here and exists here, but rather because he has internalized and embraced American values. Home-teachers have the freedom to teach the real history of America that includes the Bible and its influence in American government and in the lives of our Founders. Without this knowledge (whitewashed from public curriculum), a child will learn a false history of his country and never truly understand the concept of rights that come from the Creator and not men. This one idea is so important, so vital, yet it is left out of context. As a result, these children grow up to attend colleges where “speech codes” punish free-thinkers and no one thinks it’s odd, not to mention illegal.

Publicly educated kids grow up too susceptible to the idea that “hate speech” should actually be silenced instead of balanced with more speech. They sit at the feet of the progeny of Marxist professors who fill their heads with ideas as old as civilization, ideas of madness and tyranny disguised as “fairness” and “equality.” This kind of education does not create Americans. Our children are being robbed of their rightful inheritance. Gone is academic excellence and here to stay is social programming.

My home is a happy vacation from such wrong-headed and stupid ideas. (And my children’s teacher wouldn’t be caught dead on strike in a Che shirt.)

7. Free Thinking Allowed and Encouraged.

School focuses on training children to obey like dogs. Sit, stay, line up, eat now, go to the bathroom now, play now, be quiet, ask permission, don’t wiggle, don’t giggle, don’t talk, don’t run, line up, etc. School teaches children to conform.

At home we have rules, too! Children need them. But when my kids have to go to the bathroom, they go! When they’re hungry, they eat; when they want to laugh or wiggle, they do. Sometimes we have school in the tub with watercolors to paint letters on the tiles just because we can. We are free to go down rabbit trails any time we like if the mood strikes. During kindergarten we read a book about a Weaver bird that builds an incredible nest by weaving a basket out of grass. When my daughter heard that, she had to know more. We found a video on YouTube and watched it, which led to another video on a Tailorbird that actually sews its nest together by poking holes in two huge leaves and sewing them together with bits of grass or straw or string it finds. That day we were totally absorbed in these amazing birds and we spent hours reading everything we could on them. We even tried to make our own nests!

No teacher in a school has the kind of freedom to encourage one student to follow her interests like that. There isn’t time with 25 kids. Even though the lesson on birds was last year, my daughter still remembers every detail because the experience was intense and directed to her interests. She was allowed to become absorbed by a topic that grabbed her imagination. Those moments of watching your child learn with so much enthusiasm are priceless. Learning is about a desire to investigate, not sitting still in a desk for six hours.

Noah Cyrus (Miley’s little sister) trying to be a 24-year-old strumpet

6. Justin Who?

One thing I love about watching my kids grow up is how individualistic they are. They are so unique. They like what they like and they don’t feel pressure to change that based on what’s “cool” at the moment. They have no idea what that means. We spend a lot of time listening to classical music, Broadway favorites, and Christian music. My daughter has no idea who Justin Bieber is and I hope to keep it that way.

Unbelievably, I’ve been told the kids in first grade are already coming home from school demanding pop star posters and iTunes. Perhaps worse, some are already gravitating toward too-short skirts and creepily grown-up Halloween costumes. My daughter is oblivious to all of that and it allows her to just be her six-year-old self. She loves dressing up her bear in silly outfits and having tea with her sister. She loves drawing and dressing up in princess costumes. Childhood is short enough. I feel my children have a firm hold on their childhood and will for quite a while because they aren’t involved in school, where their peers are already racing to grow up and be like the cooler, older kids.

Another bonus is not needing to buy school clothes and worry about fitting in and wearing the right thing. I remember the pressure of having to have the right shoes and the right look in school. It was exhausting and expensive. My oldest daughter loves nothing more than hand-me-downs. You’ve never seen a kid get so excited over someone’s old clothes. And our school doesn’t have a dress code. We can wear pajamas and bunny slippers if we feel like it. It rocks.

5. The World Is Your Oyster.

Have you ever felt like school couldn’t come fast enough but then when it does you are bogged down with more work than you signed up for? The constant flow of papers to sign, book fairs to chair, class projects, field trips, concerts, market days, fundraisers, practice, and so many dates to keep straight you wish it was summer again? When my daughter was in preschool, I began to suspect I would not be cut out for this school thing. I resented “snack day,” where I was responsible for bringing the class snack. I mean, why were we all paying over a hundred dollars a month which didn’t cover snacks? Call me a non-conformer, but I’m just not into it.

Then there was the fall program around Halloween at which all the children wore costumes. I was horrified when my 3-year-old daughter came home asking me what a vampire is. Seriously? She’s three. Who dresses their 3-year-old child up as a blood-sucking vampire at a Christian preschool? That led to an awkward conversation with the director about allowing scary costumes. I was the only one who complained. This did not bode well for future school experiences.

The school drama made me feel tied down to a schedule and filled me with anxiety when I had to explain why I was keeping my child home for whatever reason. When we started to home-school, we became truly free. That first year, my cousin was killed in Afghanistan and we were able to drop everything and drive to Oklahoma and stay for a month. While we were there, school started back home for everyone else, but we were on our own time. Family time. It was wonderful for my children to bond with their cousins and help alleviate some of the pain and confusion of the moment for little ones who had just lost their daddy. We would never have been able to be there for that extended amount of time if school monitors were watching our attendance. Home-school can go with you wherever you roam. It’s a beautiful thing. And while we drove across this great country, we learned about each state we passed through while also teaching our children that family comes first.

4. PTA Meetings Double as Date Night.

My principal happens to be in love with me. This is a plus when I’ve had a rough day and not much work got done and my children have gum in their hair or are on a TV high when Mr. Fox gets home. He’s a very patient man and I always look forward to parent-teacher conferences because they usually happen with a good dinner out and maybe even a movie. There was a time when he was skeptical of the whole thing, as many husbands are, but I think we’ve gotten over the anxiety part of it now because he has seen the progress we are making every day.

We agreed from the beginning that I would try it for one year and we would see how it went and if it went well, we’d continue for another year. I’m into year two now and it’s just getting better with each day. This is not to say that every day is a perfect day…far from it! But it’s getting easier and more fun. I still get a little weepy when I see the school bus go by, and there are days I want to run out and stop it and beg the driver to take my kids somewhere way far away. Believe me, we all feel this way sometimes. But when we have those good days, the great ones that light up the house with life and laughter, those are the ones that make it worthwhile.

Everyone always complains that the years go by so fast and older women will chide younger women to “enjoy it now” before it gets away from you, but I’m steeped in it! I’m living it every day and recording almost all of it for our yearbooks! I don’t feel like I’m missing anything because I’m there every step of the way. When I first began I felt I had no other choice and was a little resentful and wished I could send them to a private school. But now I am grateful to be learning every day how to enjoy my children more by teaching them about this fascinating world around us. It allows me to get down on their level and interact with them the way they so desperately want and need. Mr. Fox gets in on it too and gives wood shop, horticulture, and beer brewing courses. (My six-year-old child knows more about beer than I do.) We are in it as a family unit and it is making us a stronger team.

3. Bright Futures from the Past.

When people think of home-schoolers today, they think of nerdy, socially awkward kids with huge brains who build working roller coasters in their backyards. (Sounds fun, right?) What people don’t think of are presidents, the authors of freedom and American history. We forget in this world of modern conveniences and institutions that not too long ago there were one-room schoolhouses with one teacher teaching all ages. Before that, children were all taught in the home. Almost all of our Founding Fathers, the most brilliant authors and orators of all time, were home-schooled. George Washingon, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, and Theodore Roosevelt were all educated at home by a parent or a tutor. George Washington was taught by his older brother for a while before embarking on a self-taught course that led him to become a surveyor by the age of 16 and eventually the greatest general and leader in the nation.

Claude Monet (impressionist), Leonardo da Vinci (inventor and artist), Daniel Boone, Meriwether Lewis, and William Clark (explorers), Robert Frost (poet), Helen Keller, C.S. Lewis, Mark Twain, Laura Ingalls Wilder (authors and lecturers), and Bach and Mozart (composers)… were all home-educated. They are just my favorites from a very exhaustive list of home-educated human beings who not only turned out okay, but changed the world.

What used to be common, educating your children in your home, is now so foreign that people tend to look at you like you have two heads when you tell them you don’t send your kids to institutions. But the one-size-fits-all halls of education are the new and unusual form of education. I believe that one day, we will return to the natural state of education which happens in the home when the public systems crumble. It is happening already. Many people I’ve met recently have just started homeschooling or are contemplating trying it because the public system is failing to meet the needs of their children. These days everyone seems to know someone who is a home-educator. The long-held stereotype that homeschooling is bad for kids is finally starting to come unglued.

2. Ratios Are Never a Problem.

At every teachers’ strike I’ve ever seen (and there was just a huge one here in Chicago), the teachers complain about class sizes. Class sizes are too large! They can’t possibly teach all those kids at once, they say. I agree. I only have two children in my class. But if you were to ask a public school teacher what they think of homeschooling, you’re likely to hear very bad things! Most don’t like home-school as an option at all because they don’t like the idea of an average person without an education degree doing her job, sometimes better than they do and without demanding pensions and salaries. If class size were really a concern for teachers, they would admire an environment where the teacher gets to spend one-on-one time every day for several hours with the student. But they don’t, because it’s not really about class sizes, but about union power, job preservation, and money.

Even the best teacher, and there are many out there, cannot possibly see to the needs of each child in his class. There will always be those who are brighter and need more stimulation who don’t get it and those who are slower and need more attention who also don’t get it because the system is for a generic child, not an individual. Government solutions generally fail because they are based on collective needs instead of individual needs. Human beings are individuals with specific traits and likes and interests that a one-size-fits-all education cannot possibly address.

There are thousands of methods of home education available, so many it’s overwhelming! Go to any home-school convention and you will find school-in-a-box, online programs with accredited teachers, hands-on activity directed schooling, classical schooling, and unit studies, among countless others.

If the curriculum you choose doesn’t work for your child, you can try something else, in the middle of the year if necessary. There are so many options for creative learning. If a child shows an interest in planes, for instance, she can learn about flight, the scientific principles of flight, and the history of planes. She can write about famous pilots, learn to fly a flight simulator, learn about birds and hollow bones, study Icarus, build a flying machine, visit a plane museum, talk to Airforce pilots …and that can last all year. During that year she would still be reading, writing, doing math, and learning history, science and art, but she would be immersed in a subject she loves and wants to know about instead of glossing over a paragraph about the Wright brothers in a textbook. This is true learning. I wish I had been able to learn like this! But here’s the best part: I get to do it all over again, and this time I’m going to enjoy it!

1. Public School Can Literally Kill Your Child.

Rachel Ehmke was a beautiful 13-year-old girl in 7th grade in Minnesota. Her parents found her hanging in her bedroom along with a heartbreaking suicide note in which she wished she could tell them how she really felt. It turned out Rachel was terrorized at school by bullies who repeatedly called her a “slut” even though she had never had a boyfriend. They smeared gum on her locker and texted the entire student body with lies about her. Not able to handle the pain and having no real intervention by school officials, Rachel took her own life, devastating her family.

Joel Morales, 12-years-old boy, took his own life after bullies at school mercilessly taunted him about his dead father. The list of children who have committed suicide because of bullies and negligent school administrations is staggering. Suicide is one of the leading killers of school-age children.

In surveys, private schools fare better with less violence but report similar bullying statistics. Private schools seem more capable of handling bullies, as many of them still use the paddle and expel trouble-makers much quicker than their public counterparts.

One thing a homeschooling parent will never have to worry about is her child being mistreated by other students. And when they are taunted by a sibling, Mom or Dad is on hand to mete out the proper punishments immediately and ensure the kiss and make-up portion of the apology happens. Within minutes, the squabbling siblings have worked it out and good will is restored. There is no chance for Mom not to hear about it until the moment it’s too late and her precious baby is hanging in the closet.

Lots of parents today say bullying is a necessary part of learning to survive in this world. After all, there are nasty people in all walks of life. This is true, but bullying when we were kids was a lot different than it is today. With cyber bullying, the victim can’t even find refuge at home. The bullies can stalk their prey every moment of the day and night. Too many parents who thought their child told them everything found out on the worst day of their lives that they never knew the truth.

If your child is having problems with bullying, it’s not quitting to pull him out of that situation and give him a chance to concentrate on learning something other than basic survival. It is a lesson that parents love their child more than anyone in the world and there is a safe place at home where he will be protected. That is our job as parents. We should fiercely protect our young no less ferociously than a bear protecting her cubs from poachers. In the adult world, no one stuffs you into a locker or gives you a swirly after an office meeting. There may be difficult personalities, but the fierceness of juvenile aggression has worn off by the time we enter the workforce. If your child is suffering at the hands of bullies, I implore you to not wait one more day. Your child’s life could depend on it.



TOPICS: Education; History; Society
KEYWORDS: arth; frhf; homeschooling
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: DustyMoment; nevermorelenore
So, if you want to know why Obama was elected and then re-elected, blame it on public indoctrination.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
( nevermorelenore ....Another reason all socialist-funded education should be eliminated from every level of government, even local government)

All it took was one to three generations of socialist-funded and single payer school to get Woodrow Wilson and Franklin D. Roosevelt elected.

Even if the socialist schools successfully teach reading and arithmetic and have teachers with a conservative philosophy just BEING IN a socialist-funded school teaches the child to be comfortable with accepting socialism.

Gee! If a powerful voting mob can give the child tuition-free school, why not use that power to grab for **lots** of free goodies?

51 posted on 11/19/2012 4:25:17 AM PST by wintertime
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To: Jude in WV

There are other testing options, besides the GED regime, for diplomas. They can be Googled.

Many home school associations in various states have umbrella setups for diploma testing.

Our home-schooled children have entered institutes and colleges, by testing, without standard high school diplomas.

On our part, the diploma itself has never been the issue. For the many benefits of home-schooling, we decided way back in 1982, when we began, that we would gladly undergo the difficulties with documentation at graduation time.

We have one son, without a high school diploma, graduate from a language institute in Texas, and go on to receive an accredited bachelors degree from a college in South Dakota. Another son is enrolled in an accredited college in the computer science program.

Testing got the boys in to these institutions, and they can go just as high in their fields as anyone who received a public school diploma.


52 posted on 11/19/2012 4:25:33 AM PST by John Leland 1789
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To: nevermorelenore

I call the school bus that stops at our corner each morning, the “big yellow indoctrination wagon.”


53 posted on 11/19/2012 4:27:28 AM PST by John Leland 1789
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To: CodeToad

There are testing options besides the GED. You can look for them on the Internet. We discovered that some colleges will take home-schooled children and give them entrance exams, and accept or refuse them on the results, with or without a diploma.


54 posted on 11/19/2012 4:31:14 AM PST by John Leland 1789
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To: SeekAndFind

Two things:

Someone once said that to “socialize: your home-schooled kids just take ‘em in the bathroom, beat ‘em up, and steal their lunch money.” Just like public scrool!

This pathetic excuse for a human being, jorno-list, and American sums up (for me) how totally vapid “liberals” are on the subject of education:

http://www.salon.com/2006/04/17/narrowsburg/

P.S. I went to a public scrool attached to a university schrool of education back in the early 1960s. I’m still bitter about the experience to this day...


55 posted on 11/19/2012 4:44:45 AM PST by Peet (Everything has an end -- only the sausage has two.)
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To: CodeToad

you wrote:

““Respected” and not being a joke are two different things.”

Are, not were.

“Harvard is respected, but Harvard is a joke.”

But no one thought thought that in the late 18th century.


56 posted on 11/19/2012 5:19:44 AM PST by vladimir998
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To: wintertime

Once again we are hearing from all talk and no action.
Does it bother you at all the the more rational members of your group do not support your methods/ attitude?


57 posted on 11/19/2012 5:21:22 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: wintertime
Most are professional disruptors and paid for their efforts. That's my conclusion.

And of course no one would ever make such a statement with out definitive proof and sources to prove this. No that would never ever happen, especially by someone that claims to have an advanced degree.

58 posted on 11/19/2012 5:24:07 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: wintertime
Most are professional disruptors and paid for their efforts. That's my conclusion.

And of course no one would ever make such a statement with out definitive proof and sources to prove this. No that would never ever happen, especially by someone that claims to have an advanced degree.

59 posted on 11/19/2012 5:28:09 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: wintertime
All it took was one to three generations of socialist-funded and single payer school to get Woodrow Wilson and Franklin D. Roosevelt elected.given that publicly funded education began even before our country was founded it seems that your "facts" are wrong once again.
60 posted on 11/19/2012 5:31:10 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: verga

Have you noticed, verga, that I frequentlty use the expression “modern” government schooling? I am sorry that you have misunderstood my position. I **know** you would **never** do so deliberately since you are professional government teacher.

Please do a Google on the words, “modern, schooling, John Taylor Gatto”, if you wish to know more about the origin of our **current** system of government schooling.


61 posted on 11/19/2012 5:57:49 AM PST by wintertime
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To: wrench
Dear wrench,

“And none of the founding fathers had indoor plumbing, electricity, or computers. We should dump those as well”

Why? Indoor plumbing, electricity and computers enhance our standard of living.

On the other hand, public education...

LOL.


sitetest

62 posted on 11/19/2012 5:58:42 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: verga
By the way, it should be “frequently”.

I don't want to upset anyone’s inner grammarian Nazi.

63 posted on 11/19/2012 5:59:00 AM PST by wintertime
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To: CodeToad
Dear CodeToad,

“Harvard is respected, but Harvard is a joke.”

Why do you say that?

Thanks,


sitetest

64 posted on 11/19/2012 6:00:37 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: verga
By the way, it should be “frequently”. I don't want to upset anyone’s highly sensitive inner grammarian Nazi.

Also,....I have a busy life creating health, wealth, and fun for the world to enjoy. I am in a rush to get out the door, so, I will not be responding to any post, from anyone, until late into the evening ( if at all).

65 posted on 11/19/2012 6:02:40 AM PST by wintertime
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To: wintertime
Oh it is so cute when you try to backpedal and change your story. Might be time to change your nick to shifting sands., BTW still waiting for you to make your tagline to: All talk and no action.
66 posted on 11/19/2012 6:52:01 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: LS

“Dr. Benjamin Rush was among the leading proponents of the public education model, as was Madison.” HOWEVER niether one of them whould have appoved of the Prussian, Otto Von Bismark FECES that “Public” “Eduction(indoctrination)” has turned into.


67 posted on 11/19/2012 7:03:03 AM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: US Navy Vet
The public (read average parents) have only themselves to blame. When you allow a power vacuum to be created don't be surprised by what rushes in.
68 posted on 11/19/2012 7:06:05 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: FreedomPoster

“. I would submit that it would be hard to homeschool things like engineering, physics, chemistry, etc.”

Not at all. In fact, a kid might actually get a better education. It will cost a few bucks but college is so ridiculously priced it would still be far cheaper.


69 posted on 11/19/2012 7:12:09 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: vladimir998

“But no one thought thought that in the late 18th century.

Are you sure?


70 posted on 11/19/2012 7:13:15 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: sitetest

Dear sitetest,

Never met a Harvard grad that wasn’t.

Thanks,

codetoad


71 posted on 11/19/2012 7:14:25 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: CodeToad
Dear CodeToad,

I've met any number of Harvard grads who weren't jokes. They were intelligent, knowledgeable and effective. Many of them highly-successful. Sometimes not in the way the world measures success, but successful, nonetheless. Guess we hang in different circles.

However, you said that HARVARD is a joke.

What is it about Harvard that makes you think it's a joke?

Thanks,


sitetest

72 posted on 11/19/2012 7:19:34 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: wrench

Non sequitur much?


73 posted on 11/19/2012 7:22:03 AM PST by ecomcon
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To: sitetest

Um, are you really that stupid? I already said their graduates are a joke, so I think automatically the school is the focus of that statement. Now go finish making my Latte.


74 posted on 11/19/2012 7:31:27 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: SeekAndFind

My daughter drew the picture of the children running from the burning school building. I posted it here near the time she drew it.


75 posted on 11/19/2012 7:39:31 AM PST by Excellence (9/11 was an act of faith.)
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To: CodeToad
Dear CodeToad,

“I already said their graduates are a joke,...”

An opinion that I disputed. Your asserting a thing hardly makes it so.

What is it about these folks that you think makes them a joke? Did you think that they were unintelligent? Just not much intellectual horsepower? Didn't know information related to their field?

Is that all you've got? In your exalted opinion, all the Harvard grads you've met are jokes?

LOL.


sitetest

76 posted on 11/19/2012 7:40:41 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: DustyMoment
Exactly right. And we need to take it one step further and confront the reason that none of this will ever change. That is, no one changes unless they have to. As long as there are Obamaphones, and food stamps, and myriad other free stuffs, nothing will change, because the majority of our people are corrupted. In other words, they are lazy, useless cowards and freeloaders who at all times take the path of least resistance and maximum entertainment. Nothing can stop the decline until people repent of their wanton smallness.

To borrow from the adage attributed to Tocqueville, because we have ceased to be good, we have ceased to be great. Imho, that's about all there is to it. Freedom has become license in the absence of self restraint due to the sense of responsibility before God. We therefore make selfish and lazy and venal decisions to the detriment of the future.

The only hope is for some type of spiritual awakening. Barring that, some type of separation.

77 posted on 11/19/2012 7:56:54 AM PST by ecomcon
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To: sitetest

Maybe when you stop your childish desire to find a persona by writing in formal letter style and revert to the customary forum/FR posting format we can continue. Until then, I see you as just another childish idiot looking to distinguish herself.


78 posted on 11/19/2012 8:09:23 AM PST by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
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To: wrench
For a short time, every now and then, it's useful to dump those conveniences and see how it goes. Hurricane Sandy showed some (prepared) folks that it's not all that bad. Admittedly the water kept running, but electricity and computers weren't all that necessary, however convenient they are.

A lot of folks go camping, and indoor plumbing is found to be not needed, no matter how much more comfortable it is.

Interestly, folks who try home schooling find that it's better than government schools. Unlike indoor plumbing and electricity, it's the government schools that are the easy way out, the Hostess Twinkie form of education - time filling, but not brain filling, and often quite damaging to the poor souls entrusted to it's care.

79 posted on 11/19/2012 8:16:22 AM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
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To: CodeToad
Dear CodeToad,

ROTFLMAO!!

Can't answer the question, so you attack my writing style?? That's great! Hilarious!

So, you just can't back up your assertion that Harvard is a joke.

Okay.

I didn't think you could.

Thanks again,


sitetest

80 posted on 11/19/2012 8:16:57 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: metmom

FR hiccupped.....


81 posted on 11/19/2012 11:31:04 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: verga
The North Carolina Constitution of 1776

Not the feds......

82 posted on 11/19/2012 11:37:19 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
Still public education and maybe you want to look at the Jefferson quotes, oh wait those shoot your argument in the foot.
83 posted on 11/19/2012 12:14:58 PM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: wintertime; metmom
By the way, it should be “frequently”. I don't want to upset anyone’s highly sensitive inner grammarian Nazi.

I already explained to Metmom in a private reply that you were the original "Grammar Nazi" (BTW that is the correct term.) and that it was one of your usual "All talk and no action posts with the usual insults"

Also,....I have a busy life creating health, wealth, and fun for the world to enjoy. I am in a rush to get out the door, so, I will not be responding to any post, from anyone, until late into the evening ( if at all).

Of course you won't respond. Just like Metmom won't come out and admit that you do the cause more harm than good.

Doesn't it bother either of you that the nicest thing you can say about wintertime is that his/ her style is "different"?

84 posted on 11/19/2012 3:31:23 PM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: John Leland 1789

WV job service and almost all WV employers require a GED or high school diploma. Some employers even require applicants to prove proficiency in Reading in addition to the above before getting an interview.
One student paid $200 for an online GED course and exam and could not get a truck driving job until he passed the WV accepted GED exam.
We participate in the Oklahoma based GED certification program. Not all states do.
I don’t see any problem for a home schooled student to pass the GED and receive a high school diploma. It is free and takes little time.


85 posted on 11/19/2012 3:36:01 PM PST by Jude in WV
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To: verga; wintertime; metmom
Dear verga,

“Of course you won't respond. Just like Metmom won't come out and admit that you do the cause more harm than good.

“Doesn't it bother either of you that the nicest thing you can say about wintertime is that his/ her style is ‘different’?”

Although I've disagreed with most of what you've posted about homeschooling when I've paid any attention to what you post at all, here, I must agree.

Wintertime is hardly the best spokesman to the “unconverted” about this topic.

Although I have a low view of it, public education predates the Revolution. It's thus hard to state that it's all just a communist plot!

That being said, I live in a state, Maryland, with allegedly very good public education (Number 1 in the country, or so I'm told by ceaseless mailings from our governor, Martin O’Mutley.). Our local elementary school is one of two or three in our county (which is the No. 3 county in our No. 1 state), because of its “excellence,” to which one may send his child if his child's own assigned school isn't doing the job for the child.

Our neighbors shunned us for years because we chose to homeschool. One neighbor told us that homeschooling was child abuse. Another neighbor questioned whether homeschooling was even legal. That neighbor also strongly implied we were just too lazy to send our children to school.

But the neighbor kids who stuck it out with the public schools, well, let's say that their college choices were a little limited. My son's choices were, in a sense, limited, too. Limited to the upper end.

I'm for what works for kids.

Whether it's public, private, parochial or homeschooling.

But the data that I see is that a mediocre homeschooling is usually better than all but the very best public school. And a TV set and a bag of corn chips is better than many, many public schools. Private schools are highly-variable, but the better ones are often better than their public school peers (not always, and not uniformly), but the best homeschool beats all.

For kids with intact families, that can manage to scrape together the mortgage or rent payment on one income, and will do without many of the luxuries of life, homeschooling is usually the best choice for most kids.


sitetest

86 posted on 11/19/2012 4:11:42 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Good post.


87 posted on 11/19/2012 4:33:56 PM PST by EternalVigilance (America's creed: Our rights come from God, not men. Governments exist to secure those rights.)
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To: sitetest
Although I've disagreed with most of what you've posted about homeschooling when I've paid any attention to what you post at all, here, I must agree.

I don't think you have disagreed with what I have said. I am in favor of "all of the above." If you are happy with what ever system you are using God bless you go for it. If people want to homeschool great I support them. If you want to use public schools or parochial ones great.

What I am against is certain posters labeling ALL public school teaches as communists or "useful idiots." Including many other insults veiled and otherwise.

When I taught in New York (rural school district) We had about 8- 10 families that had to use out facilities to take a basic (ninth grade) Earth Science test. 90% of our students passed 90% of the homeschoolers failed one scored a whopping 23 out of 100.

Since moving to VA. I have become acquainted with about 20 homeschooling families both through work and people at our Church. Two families in particular are exceptional with 12 children between them. Then there are the three that that are the opposite end of the spectrum. all three of these were put into our school because their parents were not able to handle them. We had to have one of the "little angels" (age 17 yrs 6 months)removed by the police and get an order of protection because he targeted a 14 year old girl to "date". He had a violent outburst one day when I separated them and did about $500 of property damage. One of them was dropped off at our building an hour later we received a call from his mother that she was not going to pick him up was instead asking us to have him committed to the children's Psych center because he had beat up her and her mother that morning.

The rest of them are just average, no better or worse than the kids I have in my class every day.

For kids with intact families, that can manage to scrape together the mortgage or rent payment on one income, and will do without many of the luxuries of life, homeschooling is usually the best choice for most kids.

Intact families, wow that is an oxymoron. I have 60 students right now. I can count on one hand the number of families that are "intact." And keep in mind this is a rural school district in VA. Out of those 5 only one does not have both parents working.

Like I said I am in favor of "all of the above." If it works for you God bless you go for it. But please don't attack me or insult me for doing the best I can do to help the maximum number of kids I can, because the sad reality is that while I only spend an hour and a half with these kids it is an hour more than many of their parents.

88 posted on 11/19/2012 4:59:38 PM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: verga
Dear verga,

The problem with your posts is that you often speak with what seems to be a forked tongue.

You first say:

“I am in favor of ‘all of the above.’”

But then you post all sorts of stories about failed homeschooling efforts which are out of all proportion with the actual experiences of actual homeschooling families.

That is dissembling.

For years, we worked with the fellow in our county who was in charge of supervision of homeschoolers. He’d been a public school teacher for about 20 or so years, and was kind of burned out (don’t blame him). So, because he was well short of retirement, they gave him the job of supervising the homeschoolers, and he brought a rather confrontational attitude to the job. He was notorious throughout the state! In the first years that he held the job, he was stern, nasty and tough. Dot every i, cross every t.

But after about three years, he mellowed out. He figured out two things:

1. The vast majority of homeschoolers weren’t trying to scam the system, weren’t too lazy to take their kids to the local public school (LOL! What a laugh! As if teaching your kids at home takes LESS time and energy than dropping off at the local public school!! LOL!!), and were generally good and decent people trying to do the best for their kids, and;

2. Most homeschooled kids did better, covered a broader curriculum, scored better on standardized tests, were more polite and civil, better behaved, and related better to folks not their own age, especially adults, than most public school kids.

By the time he retired, nearly 20 years later, he'd declared that working with homeschoolers had been the best part of his job, the easiest position he'd had in the public school system, and the most pleasant. It was a delight to see parents so involved with their kids' education, and a delight to see such an overwhelming population of happy, academically successful children.

So, your counterexamples, to the degree that any of them are true, are the exceptions, not the rule. Don’t believe me? Look at the research that’s been done. Here’s just one data point: The median standardized test percentile rank for public school kids is, almost tautologically, 50%. For homeschoolers, it’s 86%.

You’re pointing out the anomalies and posting as if they were usual homeschooling experiences.

Like I said, that’s dissembling.

With that promotion of falsehood, I disagree.

Although homeschooling may not work for everyone, and although there are some public schools that provide a decent education, and a few that are pretty darned good, homeschooling generally beats public schooling. By a significant, and measurable amount.


sitetest

89 posted on 11/19/2012 5:27:01 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Liberty Wins
An interesting statistic: About 40% of public school teachers enroll their own children in private schools.

And I understand that the largest "career group" or category amongst home schooling parents is public school teacher. Several of my close home schooling cohorts were public school teachers before they home schooled their children. None of them really wants to go back to full-time teaching in the public schools either.

90 posted on 11/19/2012 5:40:21 PM PST by aberaussie
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To: sitetest
So, your counterexamples, to the degree that any of them are true, are the exceptions, not the rule. Don’t believe me? Look at the research that’s been done. Here’s just one data point: The median standardized test percentile rank for public school kids is, almost tautologically, 50%. For homeschoolers, it’s 86%.

There is not doubt that every single child would benefit from more individual attention, but I am sure that you are aware of the concept of norming. For the most part home school children (according to your statistic) are performing at above average levels.

Well what is going to happen to that number when you add more and more of the population to it. Initially it will stay at or near that 86% but gradually over time it will move closer to the 50% of the rest of the population. It may never reach 50% but I can bet that it will be a lot closer to 50% than to 86%.

As far as looking at research when I have asked a certain person on this thread for on-line links I have been directed to only homeschool links. While I am not saying they are wrong I would rather see an unbiased view from a group like Rand or Heritage foundation. So if you have an unbiased link let me see it.

91 posted on 11/19/2012 5:44:20 PM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: sitetest

I completed my 20-year homeschooling career last May. I have friends and acquaintances in the public school system - teachers, principals, aides, etc. A friend who is a principal at a local elementary school once told me that I was the only home schooler she had ever met who was not crazy. Now, I have met some crazy home schoolers, but most of them that I know are not, or at least I don’t see that side of them. LOL!

I have come to believe that folks who work in the public school system for the most part just don’t get to know the vast majority of normal homes schoolers who are out there. They really do see the crazies, the people who pull their kids out of school because the school made them angry or because they really are too lazy to get up and get their kids to school.... then they realize that they really do have to work at teaching and have to put up with their kids all day long. They give up and put their kids back in school, with no progress having been made and their kids are just that much farther behind.

And my sister-in-law is a retired public school teacher and she is sure that for every nightmare public school situation I can point out, she can counter it with a nightmare home schooling situation. I don’t think so. She looks at those situations and generalizes them to all home schoolers and doesn’t see what is right in front of her: My successful home schoolers and all their friends who have done well and done so without the dehumanizing experience of public schooling.

I know that home schooling is not for everyone, but I am so thankful for the opportunity to home school my own, and I am thankful that my oldest is now home schooling her step-son and plans to home school any more children that she has.

I apologize for the arrogance that we home schoolers often display. It is just hard to be humble when something you do succeeds beyond your wildest dreams. That’s the way it was for us - we really had no idea what to expect and we could not be happier with the results!


92 posted on 11/19/2012 6:11:44 PM PST by aberaussie
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To: verga
Dear verga,

I understand your point, but it's irrelevant, and also not quite meaningful.

Certainly, if everyone were homeschooled, the median score would be the 50th percentile. That's a tautology.

But it's irrelevant. On average, homeschoolers do way, way better than public-schooled kids. Even as homeschoolers have gone from a tiny part of the school-aged population to roughly around 4% or so of that population, the differences have held up.

As for research, most homeschool research is conducted by folks interested in homeschooling. Most other folks don't seem very interested. However, there is research out there done by non-homeschooling-related organizations, and this research is in line with the research from homeschool=related organizations. The problem is that because non-homeschooling-related organizations don't frequently do this sort of research, the studies can be considered stale, and thus open to the criticism that they're no longer particularly relevant.

I imagine part of the problem is political correctness: the education establishment, which is officially hostile to homeschooling (but backs an absolute license to abortion on demand, go figure), is unlikely to look kindly at those who try to live within it going around and proving that public school teachers are not possessed of some highly-specialized knowledge of how to educate children.

Another problem that feeds the first is that it's easy, really easy to find large masses of public school children. And not so tough to find private school children. But it's a lot of work to find homeschoolers. We don't all congregate in big brick or cinderblock buildings by the hundreds, or even the thousands. We're usually at... HOME. Or at the park. Or the zoo. Or the aquarium. Or the museum. Or at co-op. With literally dozens of kids in a single place!

It's just a lot more work. And if your work is going to draw scorn from the educational establishment, why work so damned hard to do it? Why would a researcher make his life harder than it has to be?

In the meanwhile, I haven't seen any studies that seem to suggest the contrary, that public schooling is superior to homeschooling.

In fact, I find many folks who criticize the methodology of studies that find in favor of homeschooling (”too Christian,” “too white,” “not representative sample”), but no studies that find to the contrary. LOL. As for complaints about demographics, the larger studies report results for sub-populations. The same study that cites an overall 86th percentile shows a 77th percentile for black children, compared with a national average of something like the 28th percentile. Ouch. Too Christian?? LOL!! That's sort of a telling criticism as it seems to cede the field to Christians as being innately academically-superior. Let me tell all those [predominantly-non-Christian] Tiger Moms, Asian Dads, and Indian parents.

Another criticism is that “these studies aren't scientific experiments.” LOL!! Of course not. It's very, very hard to do actual experiments regarding educational outcomes in large populations. One wouldn't expect a scientific experiment in this sort of study.

And of course, if we're discussing these pieces of research in a scholarly environment, we should then provide the standard caveats like, “correlation isn't causation,” "we have to look for biases in the sample," etc.

That's fine.

But for all those problems, still, the studies come up overwhelmingly in favor of homeschooling. And there's not really any counter-evidence going in the other direction.

So, to homeschooling critics and those who dispute the general superiority of homeschooling, put up or shut up.


sitetest

93 posted on 11/19/2012 6:43:00 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: aberaussie; verga

Wonderful post. Especially the last paragraph. Thank you.


94 posted on 11/19/2012 6:44:45 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: verga

There’s nothing in this world that the government can’t screw up once it gets its hands on it, education included. that alone should be reason enough to prohibit governmental control of education.

Tens of thousands of homeschool parents across this country have been proving for decades now, that they can do a better job for less money educating their children than any teacher or politician or other government bureaucrat. An education degree is not needed to be able to teach and government control of curriculum is not demanded to ensure a good education.

Control of public education is not a power enumerated to the federal government.

IOW, the government has no Constitutional authority to meddle in public education. Public education then becomes a states rights issue at the most.


95 posted on 11/19/2012 7:30:51 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Hiyas, mm.

For decades, statistical relationships between the richness of education experienced in the real world, especially at the behest of parents, has been a root cause of higher IQ scores across the board. It only makes sense. What you teach your own child at your knee impacts what he learns and how fast he learns. For the rest of his life.


96 posted on 11/19/2012 7:34:24 PM PST by combat_boots (I lost my tagline somewhere......)
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To: CodeToad

In the sense of it as an educational institution in itself, yes.


97 posted on 11/19/2012 7:56:23 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: metmom
IOW, the government has no Constitutional authority to meddle in public education. Public education then becomes a states rights issue at the most.

And who benefits when you and others like you remove yourself from the equation? Unless like minded people get elected to school boards etc.... then the monster will continue to grow. Sure you will all be able to sit back and congratulate yourself on how prescient you were to remove your children but then the whole suffers even more.

98 posted on 11/19/2012 8:10:00 PM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: sitetest
But then you post all sorts of stories about failed homeschooling efforts which are out of all proportion with the actual experiences of actual homeschooling families. That is dissembling.

I was thinking about this. As I said I know about 40 or so families that homeschool. That translates to about 60-63 kids. As I said 12 of them are exceptional and 3 are complete buttheads. Right off the bat that means that just under 30% are well above the norm.

I would have to say that another 5-7 are above average and another 5 are below the average. These 5 are homeschooled for special educational reasons. The families have pooled resources and received assistance from the county to meet their needs. The only "institution" that could take them is the Children's psych center and non of those children are in need of that. The rest of the children I would rate as average.

Now as to the ones I referred to in New York that 90% failed the basic Earth Science test. This was in a very isolated rural community and those families were part of the kook fringe. But this was my main exposure to homeschoolers except for one family that lived in the city of Buffalo. That family the son had great difficulty and went through a rebellious stage but the younger daughter did very well with the program.

99 posted on 11/20/2012 3:18:24 AM PST by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: verga
Now as to the ones I referred to in New York that 90% failed the basic Earth Science test.

Most people learn what they need about earth science by sticking their head out the window.

And who said that people have to learn about the earth's mantle by age 12? (Ans: The Carnegie Foundation) The Carnegie Units were established by industrialists who wanted to improve "Academic and Industrial Efficiency."

Compare the industrial approach to education to Aristotle's classical approach, centered around grammar, logic and rhetoric.

Education hasn't been the same since the behavioral psychologists, industrialists, and Socialists took control of the University of Chicago and Columbia Teachers College in the late nineteenth century.

I highly recommend John Taylor Gatto's "Underground History of American Education," which is available to read on-line for free. He also has videos all over YouTube.

100 posted on 11/20/2012 3:35:27 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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