Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Jenni Rivera plane nose-dived at 600 mph, Mexican official says
abc ^ | Tuesday, December 11, 2012

Posted on 12/12/2012 8:58:28 AM PST by BenLurkin

The small plane carrying Mexican-American music superstar Jenni Rivera plunged in a nose-dive from more than 28,000 feet and hit the ground at more than 600 mph, Mexico's top transportation official said.

Gerardo Ruiz Esparza, Mexico's secretary of communications and transportation, offered a Mexican radio station the first detailed accounts of the moments leading up to the crash that killed Rivera and six other people aboard the Learjet on Sunday.

The plane practically nose-dived," Ruiz told Radio Formulate. "The impact must have been terrible."

Ruiz said the 43-year-old aircraft hit the ground 1.2 miles from where it began falling and that it plummeted at a nearly 45-degree angle. The plane left Monterrey around 3:30 a.m. Sunday after a concert performance. According to authorities, controllers lost contact with the U.S.-registered plane about 10 minutes after takeoff.

(Excerpt) Read more at abclocal.go.com ...


TOPICS: Local News
KEYWORDS: jennirivera; mexicanamericans; ntsb; planecrash
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-107 next last

1 posted on 12/12/2012 8:58:36 AM PST by BenLurkin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

Any knoweldgable FReepers able to speculate regarding this? Current focus seems to be on the 78 year old pilot and a possible health emergency.

I am certainly not knowledgeable, but suspect that something went wrong during the fueling process before it took off.

2 posted on 12/12/2012 8:59:52 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

Quick way to go broke? Underwriting Accidental Death Policies to entertainers.


3 posted on 12/12/2012 9:01:08 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

While 90 year old co-pilot was in the loo.


4 posted on 12/12/2012 9:02:06 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

At least she didn’t suffer, more than a few miliseconds.


5 posted on 12/12/2012 9:02:43 AM PST by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
600 MPH nosedive? Ach...Everyone to the back of the plane please.

Lord have mercy.

6 posted on 12/12/2012 9:04:01 AM PST by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 11/07/12)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

I heard this news on the radio and just gasped. (I seldom gasp)

If a plane at 28,000 feet begins a nose dive at 600 mph, isn’t there still at least 2 minutes of sheer terror and panic before the plane hits the ground?

Prayers for all....


7 posted on 12/12/2012 9:05:04 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DManA

Yah, mercifully a quick end, but I cannot even conceive how utterly terrifying that steep plunge would be. Shudder.


8 posted on 12/12/2012 9:05:42 AM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Or would you be pulling so many g’s that you’d black out long before hitting the ground?


9 posted on 12/12/2012 9:06:51 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: DManA

Plane was doing 880fps when it hit. Don’t know off hand how long a Lear jet is so yes, a few milliseconds ... reminds of that jet carrying that pro-golfer that went in up in the Dakotas some place. Went straight in from around 45,000 feet.


10 posted on 12/12/2012 9:06:51 AM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

What is it about being a Mexican female pop star that seems to lure death to their doorsteps?


11 posted on 12/12/2012 9:07:28 AM PST by jsanders2001
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

I REALLY hope my last two minutes aren’t as grim as hers likely were.


12 posted on 12/12/2012 9:07:47 AM PST by Natufian (t)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ImJustAnotherOkie

So long as you can pass an FAA medical exam you can fly. There’s no mention of the 1st. officer. Hopefully there’s a CVR and a flight recorder that can tell us.


13 posted on 12/12/2012 9:08:36 AM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

If my math is correct, that’s about a 32 second nose dive. Presumably a person would loose consciousness at that rate, but still briefly terrifying.


14 posted on 12/12/2012 9:09:19 AM PST by JoeFromCA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SkyDancer
Payne Stewart
15 posted on 12/12/2012 9:09:38 AM PST by EEGator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
Article mentions this:

The jet was built in 1969 and records show it sustained substantial damage in an accident in 2005 when it experienced a fuel system malfunction.

However, just saw this that refers to the 2005 incident as "pilot error"?

The 43-year-old Learjet sustained substantial damage in a runway incident in 2005 when the airplane struck a runway marker and veered off the landing strip. NTSB investigators attributed that incident to pilot error.

http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/accidents/jenni-rivera-killed-learjet-crash?cmpid=enews121112&spPodID=030&spMailingID=12553807&spUserID=NzgwODY0Nzg3OQS2&spJobID=208725774&spReportId=MjA4NzI1Nzc0S0

16 posted on 12/12/2012 9:10:39 AM PST by TruthWillWin (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Buckeye McFrog
Or would you be pulling so many g’s that you’d black out long before hitting the ground?

No "Gs" ... the aircraft would be in free-fall. Unless the engines were running, then there's the possibility of powered descent, and possibly negative G. In any case, the pax and crew would be well aware of what's going on, and the last thing to pass through their minds would be the windscreen or forward bulkhead.

17 posted on 12/12/2012 9:12:06 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Sounds about right. That was one heck of a smash hit.


18 posted on 12/12/2012 9:12:21 AM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

What was the weather like?


19 posted on 12/12/2012 9:12:39 AM PST by bergmeid (FUBO)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
I would think that in order for this Lear aircraft to go straight in at 600mph it would need to be under near full power to do so.

This might indicate a pilot health issue. But from 28000 feet, how could a co-pilot or someone else not respond and right the aircraft?

Unless the pilot was healthy and locked everyone out of the cockpit intentionally. Just speculating.

20 posted on 12/12/2012 9:12:45 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (Political correctness does not legislate tolerance; it only organizes hatred.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

Hope they had their seat belts on.


21 posted on 12/12/2012 9:13:32 AM PST by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SkyDancer
reminds of that jet carrying that pro-golfer that went in up in the Dakotas some place

If we are thinking of the same crash, didn't they think everyone was dead on board before it crashed?

22 posted on 12/12/2012 9:16:41 AM PST by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

Just curious, and know nothing about aviation. But if the plane left the airport 10 minutes earlier and was just 60 miles from where it departed, how could it have been at 28,000 feet, traveling at 600 mph so soon? Do the small jets climb faster than commercial jets?


23 posted on 12/12/2012 9:17:33 AM PST by EnquiringMind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Unless the pilot was healthy and locked everyone out of the cockpit intentionally. Just speculating.

At 600mph, does the cockpit need to even be locked to keep anyone out? I doubt anyone is able to fight gravity and make it to the cockpit.

24 posted on 12/12/2012 9:18:40 AM PST by Dan Nunn (Support the NRA!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: DManA

Yes, the plane lost pressure.


25 posted on 12/12/2012 9:20:19 AM PST by EEGator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: SkyDancer

I remember that. A fighter from Eglin AFB was already in the air and they directed it to check on the plane.

He flew beside it for a while and reported everyone seemed to be dead on it. I think it then flew for a long time before going in.


26 posted on 12/12/2012 9:20:48 AM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

Fuel was my first thought, too.. But age might be factor. Does anyone know what would happen if most of the 6 on board suddenly moved to one end of the plane or the other? There’s no ‘gliding’ in a Lear Jet. They fall like a rock when they lose power, just like that F/A-18 over San Diego that landed on a house. I’d rather be in a Cessna or other old school ‘floater’.


27 posted on 12/12/2012 9:22:07 AM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Bloody Sam Roberts

At that altitude, wouldn’t the Lear be cruising/autopilot?
& then to descend at that speed into nosedive? If engines were running, then what else might possibly be the cause?
Pure terror those last few minutes/seconds...


28 posted on 12/12/2012 9:22:34 AM PST by rainee (Her)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: EnquiringMind

Wow, just checked and the rate of climb for the Learjet 25 is 6050 ft/min! Could have easily been at 28000 feet in 10 minutes.


29 posted on 12/12/2012 9:23:09 AM PST by TruthWillWin (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: DManA

Yes - plane ran out of fuel & crashed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_South_Dakota_Learjet_crash


30 posted on 12/12/2012 9:23:41 AM PST by MissMagnolia ("It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains" - Patrick Henry)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

That is a myth, every aircraft that has not been structurally compromised, has a glide coefficient and minimum air speed to give a minimum decent rate. Now granted some have a better glide ratio than others BUT ALL AIRCRAFT CAN GLIDE. Now if a wing was ripped off than no gliding, just falling....


31 posted on 12/12/2012 9:26:09 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Natufian

Easy to say now, I know, but I think I’d opt for a couple nightmarish minutes over two-to-twenty in the nursing home.

Anyway God bless the victims and families.


32 posted on 12/12/2012 9:26:44 AM PST by Fightin Whitey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: MissMagnolia

No way that was 13 years ago. Time has gone completely alinear for me.


33 posted on 12/12/2012 9:26:44 AM PST by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
There’s no ‘gliding’ in a Lear Jet. They fall like a rock when they lose power, just like that F/A-18 over San Diego that landed on a house. I’d rather be in a Cessna or other old school ‘floater’.

That is not correct, looked it up.

The best glide distance with engines windmilling is obtained with a clean airplane configuration and with a glide speed of 160 to 170 knots. At this speed, the Learjet 25 glides approximately 26 nautical miles for each 10000 feet of altitude loss. This is a glide ration of 16 to 1 and is based on a wings level glide with gear and flap up and a gross weight of 11000 to 12000 pounds.

34 posted on 12/12/2012 9:26:51 AM PST by TruthWillWin (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: DManA

It was the Payne Stewart incident. Cabin lost pressure, knocking everyone unconscious. I believe the idea is everyone would have asphyxiated before the plane crashed.


35 posted on 12/12/2012 9:28:23 AM PST by Thane_Banquo ( Walker 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

Was the pilot’s name Angel or Achmed? RIP Jenni Rivera—she was a cutie in life.


36 posted on 12/12/2012 9:29:24 AM PST by tflabo (Truth or Tyranny)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

32 seconds

28,000 feet/ (600mph X 5280ft /3600 sec) =1/(1/31.82) = 31.82 seconds


37 posted on 12/12/2012 9:30:25 AM PST by Perdogg (Rep. Tom McClintock (R-CA4) for President 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd
If a plane at 28,000 feet begins a nose dive at 600 mph, isn’t there still at least 2 minutes of sheer terror and panic before the plane hits the ground?

I calculate about 32 seconds, assuming the rate of descent was constant, but that's still plenty of time if one is conscious. Plus, if it was dark and you could see the ground, the anticipation would be unbearable. The physical pain would be insignificant, but the psychological pain must've been horrible.

38 posted on 12/12/2012 9:32:14 AM PST by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
There’s no ‘gliding’ in a Lear Jet. They fall like a rock when they lose power, just like that F/A-18 over San Diego that landed on a house. I’d rather be in a Cessna or other old school ‘floater’.

I would never ride in a Lear. There is a reason pilots I know call them "land darts".

39 posted on 12/12/2012 9:32:39 AM PST by isthisnickcool (Sharia? No thanks!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Bloody Sam Roberts
I would think that in order for this Lear aircraft to go straight in at 600mph it would need to be under near full power to do so.

That's the speed that it's estimated Payne Stewart's plane hit at, and it was out of fuel.

40 posted on 12/12/2012 9:33:11 AM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

Per post 34 the Learjet will glide 26NM for every 10000 feet of altitude. The typical Cessna 172 has a glide ratio of 1.5 NM for every 1000 ft of altitude, only 15 miles for 10000 feet. For the Cessna the best glide speed would be 67-68.


41 posted on 12/12/2012 9:33:24 AM PST by TruthWillWin (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Fightin Whitey

Fair point and I agree.


42 posted on 12/12/2012 9:33:36 AM PST by Natufian (t)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: EEGator

No fair. Payne was sleeping.


43 posted on 12/12/2012 9:35:37 AM PST by Zuben Elgenubi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

Is it cheaper to charter a private plane than to fly commercial? I can never figure out why anyone takes these risks, given that the pilot has to fly random routes and the mechanics on the ground are of unknown/dubious quality.


44 posted on 12/12/2012 9:36:17 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

O2 deprivation/hypoxia.


45 posted on 12/12/2012 9:37:02 AM PST by pabianice (washington, dc ..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Lou L; Perdogg

RE: post 37/38

Thanks.


46 posted on 12/12/2012 9:37:27 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: DManA

You’re not the only one!! Working on a family event today & trying to plan activities for the ‘younger’ kids (under 10). One of my cousins has 3 kids and I was thinking they were maybe 6, 7 .... turns out they’re more like young teenagers. Yikes! Where did the time go? I’ve lost some years somewhere.


47 posted on 12/12/2012 9:38:37 AM PST by MissMagnolia ("It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains" - Patrick Henry)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Zuben Elgenubi

Yeah, the long sleep.


48 posted on 12/12/2012 9:41:48 AM PST by EEGator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Natufian

As I say, easy to say now, right?

Stick me on that plane & I’d probably be begging for 20 in San Quentin!


49 posted on 12/12/2012 9:43:34 AM PST by Fightin Whitey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: TruthWillWin

Thank you for looking that up!


50 posted on 12/12/2012 9:49:05 AM PST by EnquiringMind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-107 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson