Skip to comments.USA Collapse: How Bad Will it Be?
Posted on 01/03/2013 4:42:02 PM PST by Kartographer
Today while reading a thread in a survival forum someone explained his view on how different a collapse in USA would be compared to the one that took place in Argentina in 2001. He said that while the collapse in Argentina was like changing a tire on a Ford Falcon, what will happen in US will be like changing them all on a 18-wheeler. Changing a tire on a Falcon is a light way of putting it. Our economy collapsed, our currency lost 70% of its value overnight and the president resigned while anarchy spread all over the country. Over a decade later the place is still a mess, it simply never got back on its feet. Just last week, looting spread across 40 major cities in Argentina. My family and friends over there spend three days, including Christmas, without power or water, while roasted at 120F. We didnt change the tire on a Ford Falcon. The Falcon went over the cliff and blew up. You could say theres only a wreckage left of what was once a nice, shiny Ford Falcon.
Unfortunately for you guys in USA its more similar than any of us could have expected. Seems that right after getting an Obama double tap, youll get hit with Hillary Clinton in 2016. The shit storm yourre about to go through will test everyones determination and true preparedness levels. Its now and in these coming years that people will get to see for themselves what works and what doesnt. Many such accounts have already been posted here the last couple years.
(Excerpt) Read more at ferfal.blogspot.com ...
I’ve been reading this website(Surviving in Argentina) for several years.
There are some excellent articles and advice on ‘things to come’ and survival.
Look what is happening right before your eyes and take heed. Theres a Great Storm coming you can feel it.
Listen to what the bible says: A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it. NIV Proverbs 22:3
The fact is that many will not accept that a breakdown is occurring even as they watch it happening before their eyes. Why dont they realize it? Its caused by a condition called Normalcy Bias a mental state people enter when facing a disaster.
It causes people to underestimate both the possibility of a disaster occurring and its possible effects. This often results in situations where people fail to adequately prepare for a disaster, and on a larger scale, the failure of governments to include the populace in its disaster preparations. The assumption that is made in the case of the normalcy bias is that since a disaster never has occurred then it never will occur. It also results in the inability of people to cope with a disaster once it occurs. People with a normalcy bias have difficulties reacting to something they have not experienced before. People also tend to interpret warnings in the most optimistic way possible, seizing on any ambiguities to infer a less serious situation.
A good article on Normalcy Bias is on our own ChocChipCookies Blog The Survival Mom:
The riots in Argentina will be nothing compared to what we will see. Don’t believe me? Just look at the Black Friday violence or the brawls that break out the day of a new released basketball shoe! And this is in a land of plenty!
This was in a news story about hurricane Sandy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2953537/posts?page=33) In darkened neighborhoods, people walked around with miners lamps on their foreheads and bicycle lights clipped to shoulder bags and, in at least one case, to a dogs collar. A Manhattan handyman opened a fire hydrant so people could collect water to flush toilets. You can clearly tell at the office, or even walking down the street, who has power and who doesnt, said Jordan Spiro, who lives in the blackout zone. New Yorkers may not be known as the friendliest bunch, but take away their ability to shower and communicate and youll see how disgruntled they can get.
Sound familiar? Yes its petty much that favorite quote of mine that some have complained about:Let me tell you something about humans, nephew: Theyre a wonderful, friendly people - as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those friendly, intelligent, wonderful people...will become as nasty and as violent as the most blood-thirsty klingon. Quark from: The Siege of AR-558 (#7.8) (1998)
You either prepare and stand on your own beholden to no one or you become dependent on others to provide your basic needs and become their serf. Me I dont want to be beholden to anyone for providing what is needed for me and mine. I certainly dont want to have to kiss some gubberment third class bureaucratic to try and coax some help from them, I dont want some jack booted thug herding me in line and telling me where to stand, sit, eat or sleep. And last but not least I dont want to be shut up in with a bunch of zombies and have to worry about not only trying to get basic necessities but having to fight to keep what I manage to get.
Its your choice you can prep or you can stand around on a bridge waiting for FEMA to bring you a bottle of water, a MRE, a warm blanket and a kiss for your boo-boo and maybe you can even get your picture as you stand there on the national news.
For those who are just starting or are old hands at prepping you may find my Preparedness Manual helpful. You can download it at:
http://tomeaker.com/kart/Preparedness1j.pdf NOTE! THIS IS A FREE DOWNLOAD. I DO NOT MAKE ONE CENT OFF MY PREPAREDNESS MANUAL!
For those of you who havent started already its time to prepare almost past time maybe. You needed to be stocking up on food guns, ammo, basic household supplies like soap, papergoods, cleaning supplies, good sturdy clothes including extra socks, underwear and extra shoes and boots, a extra couple changes of oil and filters for your car, tools, things you buy everyday start buying two and put one up.
As the LDS say When the emergency is upon us the time for preparedness has past.
Again I like to recomend FReepers ChocoChipCookie Blog The Survival Mom (Please Blog Police let this one slide!) Where you can get lots of useful information like:
Also there is Ferfals Blog a survivor of Argentinas first collapse:
And there is Selcos Blog a Bosnian War survivor at:
There is no greater disaster than to underestimate danger. Underestimation can be fatal.
>Its now and in these coming years that people will get to see for themselves what works and what doesnt.<
And while the US is taking that looooong nosedive into oblivion, the rest of the world had better learn to fix their own problems.
Perhaps y’all can ask Russia and China to give you a helping hand.
They want it, they will get it, in spades, with a cherry and cream on top.
Scu*bags one and all.
Its going to be a lot tougher for some than it will be for others.
Being “poor” for my whole life is a real blessing.
Argentina after Peron and until this day. Not a complete collapse, but it’s a permanent state.
When the USA experieinces economic collapse it will drag EVERYBODY with it. The dollar will become devalued, but so will every other currency worth having! So Achmed is going to take billions out of the US and invest into what? The next country about to go belly up?
There will be nowhere to go! No, the best that we can hope for is a slow collapse, I guess.
And, FWIW, the government will NOT tell anyone about an iminent collapse. Washington DC will just lie.
Gonna be worse, globally, than WWII. I, for one, just want revenge. And I see great opportunity.
Mexico, with extra s*&t salsa.
much much worse
“Ain’t nobody got time for dat!”
I know what you mean. That, and I am betting you are not afraid of hard work.
I can relate!
Now that’s interesting...
Don’t worry about it .. you won’t live through it anyway
My grandmother showed an amazing flash of wisdom the other day when some of my liberal relatives were trying to pull an “occupy” comment out of her.
My niece asked her about what the thought during the great depression when the banks were “stealing” everyone’s homes.
My grandmother said that they didn’t think of it much at all. They were too busy doing what they had to do to get by. She said it wasn’t even called the great depression till years afterward. Most of their neighbors didn’t lose their farms because they lived within their means and didn’t have much to begin with. Those who lost their farms were living on the plains and fell into debt during the drought. Urban people got hurt because they couldn’t take care of themselves without money like rural folks did.
She warned my niece that some serious pain was coming her way because of all the excess crap she has that she thinks she needs. One day it will be gone and she’s going to hurt because of it. Granny said all they ever had was a radio for the whole family they only listened to it for an hour or two at night.
Kart, you had that thread about bartering and I posted an article, but I started that with a warning of engaging in bartering. The man who wrote the article for this present thread about Argentina said this:
“Youll start bartering for a living like thousands did in Argentina. When you realize the problems concerning bartering youll try making money to survive on whatever new currency replaces the US dollar.”
Knowing no one can predict how another person will act when the person’s life is draining out due to no water or no food, I won’t trust anyone to be what they were before the collapse came. At this time in my life, I’m more of a solitary person, retired without a workplace to occupy and without a large group of friends/acquaintances and no one knows what I have, so I won’t have a group of people coming around to visit and see what I have and want some of it.
I expect other Freepers do have a large group of people who will check on them or come see them, or contact them in some way and that could be a problem for these Freepers.
I believe this country is dying - it will either continue to die slowly or there will be a final flap of butterfly wings that will cause a sudden collapse in the monetary system or electric grid which brings the same thing, and then it’s chaos and panic and we are plunged into the dark ages of long ago.
I think if people don’t have what they need to survive for a long period, maybe that is a year but it could be much longer, they will die. We don’t know how long it would take for some semblance of order to come about. This man’s report about Argentina says it still isn’t happening there, chaos still rules after a number of years.
The future is uncertain but our preparations can have goals we meet and continue to set goals. If we do nothing, we leave our future to chance and that is not an option for many of us. I have insurance for my house, my car, my life, medical needs, and I have survival insurance.
Kart, I know you have survival insurance, and we both hope many others get it.
Gonna be "interesting" when the citidiots start going crazy.
They don't understand what lives outside their city limits.....
That is cool, but I want to shoot a 12 gauge slug through my .22.
Being poor for my whole life is a real blessing.
I just had the same thought earlier today. I never felt like I was "poor" growing up though, and the experience has served me well.
Such an odd thing to say in many respects, but then I can’t grasp a mind so dark that it would call a turn on a man.
I don’t get upset about personal financial issues. I just don’t have a problem getting by on next to nothing. I shop smart, don’t have a lot of excess baggage, and I take care of what I have.
As far as gadgets are concerned, I have a baseline kindle and a tracfone.
Well, I’ll be the first to admit that I have some nice, yet unnecessary things- but I’ve done without them just fine before and I can do without them again. There is a certain sense of freedom living an uncluttered and simple life.
America is not Argentina and since we have valuable resources I woluld expect China and other very bad actors to attempt to “help” us and send an invasion force while we are vulnerable. They will want to carve us up and keep what they can take.
And seriously wouldnt we really expect Obama to invite them in to help stop the rebellion that is trying to push him out of power?
Sounds far fetched you say, but would you have ever beleived me if I told you 6 years ago we would see a dounling of the national debt and GM owned by the government?
When the meltdown comes it will be open season on America from our global enemies and we will have to fight, thats what I beleive we are in for.
bump for later
Think “Yugoslavia” circa 1991. An industrialized nation, an out of control but weak central government, and too many demographic groups who don’t like each other.
I guess you’d say I grew up without a lot of the stuff we deem “necessary” now. - We live in the country, have lots of wood for the woodstove in the winter; I do dread having to do without at least a modicum of air conditioning in the summer . . although, we didn’t have it until I was almost grown. Now, I’m 66 and extreme heat hurts; though we don’t keep it too cold in the summer. Guess I would have to get used to it. - Predicting every contingency is overwhelming.
I've no idea what that's supposed to mean.
My comment was generic in re the thread title.
And I doubt that what's left of my mind is any lighter or darker than most.
Regardless, no offense intended . . .
“Now, Im 66 and extreme heat hurts;”
I am much older than you and heat does hurt. I can’t cool off and get hotter and hotter and then I faint. I have a way to stay cool when I lose power. I have four battery fans and rechargeable D batteries. A fan at night on my upper torso allowed me to sleep through hot summer nights after Hurricane Ike took out power.
During the day, I used spray water bottles with little fans on top that take AA batteries. Spray water with the little fan going and the temp. of the ambient air around you drops by 20-30 degrees. Spray it on your face, neck and arms and the fan makes it really cool as the water evaporates. Spray your legs for more cooling.
I made it okay through that heat with those fans and spray bottle fans. I would have been in trouble without them.
You are right. This is why my preps go beyond just stocking piling necessities. I hesitate to use the word sustainable, because of the Globalist use of the term.
However,for example, if I have flour or wheat to last for a year or two, logic asks then what? When it is gone how will we sustain ourselves? Can we be self sufficient?
We know we can grow wheat, because we have been growing winter wheat for the last few winters. We have sufficient land to be able to produce enough for our family, and have had some success with this.
A stock pile of food is great for short term, but should we go into a dark period that lasts a decade or more, we should be giving some thought to how we will do things for the long term too.
I really would like to be totally self sufficient, so I am learining new things daily, and filing how to info in my notebook, and constantly experimenting to see what I can do.
“We know we can grow wheat, because we have been growing winter wheat for the last few winters. We have sufficient land to be able to produce enough for our family, and have had some success with this.”
I have no room to grow more than a few veggies and wheat doesn’t grow here. I have enough long term stored flour (good for 10+ years) to last at least a year and have cornmeal the same way.
I bought heirloom seeds packed for long term by Walton Feed. There are big back yards of houses behind me with a significant fence between our properties. If those people left due to the bad circumstanes, I would use that yard to put in a garden. If I can’t do that, I’ll find someone close to me who has space and will grow the food using my seeds so I get part of the produce. I will figure out a way to get those seeds in the ground and growing. There is always a way.
I expect the utter collapse of the US economy would trigger a world-wide depression and attendant run on banks.
I know we are not as far along as you are on many things, but we do have more than enough grains and beans and flour for more than a year for just ourselves, and some extra for our Kids and Grandkids.
Now that winter is officially here, I will start canning meats - whatever the stores have on special till I get enough for 3 or 4 times a week for 7 or 8 people. I will also plan on 2 year rotation for home canned meats and fish.
I have quite a bit of canned stuff that I have been purchasing from the store, but it is all more expensive than what I can do myself.
You would be amazed what you can grow just in pots indoors and outside on patios. With intensive methods, you only need about 32 sq foot of space for 1 person to provide fresh food, and some to preserve to get through the winter.
I grow all heirlooms now, so I save seeds from my best producers to use next year. I know you are well prepared, and certainly ahead of my measly preps.
When we go down the chinese will go as well. Probably the only force capable of invading will be from the south (Mexico).
With Hydroponics you can go vertical and eat well.
Thank you so much for the cooling tips! - Where can one find the battery operated spray bottles?
I’ve been through the mill on that overheating problem. Years ago, I used to take hot, soaking baths and wash my hair while in the hot tub. (After multiple trips to the ER after these soaks; I finally figured out that was a bad habit; felt so stupid for not figuring it out sooner. Haven’t done that and have been free of the ER for several years.) Now, I only take showers exclusively.
Also, used to drink large glasses of ice water when I had one of those overheating attacks; but someone told me I should drink just ROOM TEMPERATURE water during those, that the system would panic and REALLY overheat internally trying to HEAT UP the ice water.
. . . And, a cool, wet cloth on the back of the neck, and bathing the insides of the thighs with a cool cloth helps to alleviate the problem.
I’m a bit overweight, too, and can’t seem to do a whole lot about it; so I do the best I can, though I wish I could lose the extra insulation.
Exactly what I was thinking. I've been telling my 21 y/o daughter that, thanks to libtard voters, America is about to become Mexico, and not the nice white sandy beach part, the sh!t part. Only it will be worse because many spoiled idiots will suddenly be scrambling to survive.
We may not have been BFF with each other but we got along well enough before hussein. Now, that's a thing of the past. I expect race riots to break out any day.
As for being poor, there is a curve we have to get past. Being poor will set you well with making do with what you have and it won't come as much of a shock to the system. However, you still have to have money, even devalued money, to survive right before and immediately after until everyone gets to the same level. That's is my worry.
“our currency lost 70% of its value overnight and the president resigned while anarchy spread all over the country”
Cheer up, Folks! In the event of a collapse OUR president will NOT resign.
I hear that the democrap oligarch vermin are building for themselves huge bunkers (like the one under the new Denver airport) for when their planned collapse arrives and they want to ride out the carnage in safety while folks like you and me kill each other off. In classic Darwinian mumbo-jumbo, they will assume the survivors are the fittest for their new world order. Won’t they be surprised when we survivors cancel their tickets to rule over us!
These are called “misting fans”. They began as a cooling aid for sports people, especially bikers.
All misting fans are not equal. I had some that were junk, too small overall and neck of the bottle was too small to put in ice, the blades moved too slowly - it took only one battery. Then did research. I would buy this model below from Amazon, in fact, I will order two more. I have two, had them for years, but we're talking plastic here and I can't do without these misting fans in hot Texas weather if I have no power. They are $7.20 each. That $7.20 could save us from a heat stroke (and maybe death at our age). With your condition, please buy at least two in case one breaks. Here is where to get them:
Argentina had the US to help stabilize the world economy so it could recover. When we go down we will take the rest of the world with us and there is no stabilization.
I have some preps you don't have yet, but you are light years ahead of me in the capability of growing food for the long term and that is a major advantage for survival.
I admire your energy and plans moving forward. You are a major prepper in my opinion.
We all want to know what’s coming, and none of us knows. It could be a financial collapse, a collapse brought on by war, or some other triggering event. Regardless of the reason, if the grid ever goes down we will discover what true SHTF really means.
But when “whatever it is” comes, I think the Balkans, Argentina, and every other national collapse in the last 150 years will prove to be relatively small compared to whatever lies in store for us now. The reason is that it will affect the whole developed world at once.
The rest of these comments concern the economic collapse scenario:
The possibility of a financial collapse is not the product of a few fringe lunatics’ imaginations. The world has seen many nations collapse financially, and the results are horrible. The United States is most certainly NOT immune.
Nial Ferguson (considered by many to be the world’s leading economic historian, at least among those currently among the living) has said the current worldwide economic crisis is possibly the worst in the entire history of the world.
The reason is that the economic problems we face NOW apply in one form or another to every single large economy in the world. What’s more, none of the major economies can fall without bringing down all the rest.
The world has never before faced a potentially simultaneous financial meltdown of every developed nation, all at once.
The current situation is different than ever before in other ways as well. The impact of a collapse (financial or otherwise) would be worsened in two major ways:
A. Incredibly hostile groups likely to wreak havoc if/when things begin to break down.
B. An incredibly complex society, leading to loss of individual self sufficiency.
Since this is true for every developed nation in the world, the world faces a problem that has never existed on such a large scale before.
A worldwide financial collapse could be astonishingly sudden, perhaps leading to financial gridlock within a matter of hours. This means a financial collapse could throw us into a full blown SHTF situation with very little notice.
But a financial collapse could also come more slowly. We could see a huge economic decline on relative short notice, but not a complete breakdown. This would lead to widespread hardship and a rise in civil unrest.
Here in the United States, a serious enough problem would open the door for Obama to make a major grab for power.
If this is what transpires, Obama will attempt to control things through imposition of martial law and dictatorial, totalitarian rule. Most of the foundation for this has already been laid. A major missing piece is confiscation of guns.
In this scenario, the majority of the American people will welcome Obama’s rule with open arms. The people that voted for Obama in the last election love/worship him anyway, and will conclude a dictator is better than anarchy. (Our media, of course, will never use the word “dictator”, and will support his every move.)
Not everyone would go along, hence the need to confiscate our guns NOW.
This is just one of the possibilities we face, but I believe this is the scenario Obama is playing for. (Once he makes his move we may find out what those rumored FEMA camps are really for. I hope I’m wrong.)
In this scenario I would expect Obama to be able to keep the lid on, at least for a time. Not everyone would go along. If/when his totalitarian rule failed, civil control would be lost. Eventually, loss of civil control would likely mean the grid would go down too.
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