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Dwarf planet Eris may reveal quantum gravity
newscientist.com ^ | 24 January 2013 | by Ker Than

Posted on 01/25/2013 12:55:54 PM PST by BenLurkin

Many galaxies appear to have stronger gravity - and thus more mass - than can be explained by their visible matter alone. Overly massive galaxies are most often attributed to dark matter, an invisible substance that interacts with matter through gravity. To date, though, no one has directly detected dark matter particles.

But a well-established notion in physics could hold another explanation for their size. This says that empty space is really a frothy, turbulent sea full of virtual particles - matter and antimatter that spring in and out of existence so fast that we can't see them.

Though they are tiny, quantum objects, Dragan Hajdukovic, a physicist at CERN near Geneva, Switzerland, thinks these bubbling particles may have opposing gravitational charges, similar to electrical charges. In the presence of a gravitational field, the particles would generate a secondary field, which, in the case of galaxies, could explain the mass discrepancy.

Hajdukovic's theory could also explain dark energy, the baffling force thought to be driving the universe apart at an accelerated pace. If virtual particles have gravitational charges, then space-time itself is imbued with a small charge that could be causing objects in the universe to speed away from each other.

(Excerpt) Read more at newscientist.com ...


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: cern; draganhajdukovic; eris; geneva; mikebrown; stringtheory; switzerland

1 posted on 01/25/2013 12:56:02 PM PST by BenLurkin
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To: BenLurkin

does anti-matter have anti-gravity?


2 posted on 01/25/2013 12:59:25 PM PST by Mr. K (There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and democrat talking points.)
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To: Mr. K

>>does anti-matter have anti-gravity?<<

Does it Matter? ;)


3 posted on 01/25/2013 1:01:45 PM PST by freedumb2003 (I learned everything I needed to know about racism from Colin Powell)
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To: Mr. K
does anti-matter have anti-gravity?

No one knows for sure.

4 posted on 01/25/2013 1:02:53 PM PST by kosciusko51 (Enough of "Who is John Galt?" Who is Patrick Henry?)
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To: freedumb2003

The gravity of the situation matters...

Couldn’t resist....


5 posted on 01/25/2013 1:03:28 PM PST by Sleeping Freeper
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To: BenLurkin

This could explain all the weirdness in the report on Serpo and it’s weird “gravitational properties”, but then again Serpo is probably bunk.

FYI: www.serpo.org


6 posted on 01/25/2013 1:07:53 PM PST by GraceG
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To: shibumi

Oh, hell....Discordia.


7 posted on 01/25/2013 1:09:14 PM PST by Salamander (Do not remove this tagline under penalty of law.)
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To: SunkenCiv

ping


8 posted on 01/25/2013 1:15:23 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: BenLurkin
Why would this virtual charge need to be uniform throughout the Universe? Depending on the quantum perturbation of local space-time, the disposition of this charge could vary by region.

This would play well into Hawking's "black hole radiation" theory.

I like it.

Makes a lot more sense than some Unobtanium substance we haven't ever seen and might not be able to find.

9 posted on 01/25/2013 1:16:39 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: Salamander

My God... It’s full of Fnord.


10 posted on 01/25/2013 1:18:05 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: BenLurkin
But a well-established notion in physics could hold another explanation for their size. This says that empty space is really a frothy, turbulent sea full of virtual particles - matter and antimatter that spring in and out of existence so fast that we can't see them.

Let’s do the time warp again.

We are back to the days of spontaneous creation. .

11 posted on 01/25/2013 1:22:56 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: BenLurkin
While contemplating this deep subject, sit back and enjoy a frothy, turbulent glass full of virtual beer:


12 posted on 01/25/2013 1:26:32 PM PST by mikrofon (Bubbles & antibubbles)
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To: Pontiac

>>This says that empty space is really a frothy, turbulent sea full of virtual particles - matter and antimatter that spring in and out of existence so fast that we can’t see them.<<

Like American Idol contestants.


13 posted on 01/25/2013 1:27:00 PM PST by freedumb2003 (I learned everything I needed to know about racism from Colin Powell)
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To: mikrofon

Can’t.

Doc says I need to cut back on virtual salt.


14 posted on 01/25/2013 1:33:29 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: BenLurkin
"Dark Matter" ... Makes sense to me that space objects can have separation velocities greater than the speed of light.

Massive things are out there, but visibllity depends on relative velocities.

15 posted on 01/25/2013 1:35:25 PM PST by OldNavyVet
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To: Dead Corpse

Bravo!

;D


16 posted on 01/25/2013 1:36:24 PM PST by Salamander (Do not remove this tagline under penalty of law.)
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To: freedumb2003

I guess, I’ll just relax this weekend in my own frothy, turbulent sea full of virtual particles and consider the matter.


17 posted on 01/25/2013 1:38:49 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: BenLurkin

I see nothing here that I didn’t suspect from the beginning, at last they are waking up to what I knew all along..........or something like that!


18 posted on 01/25/2013 1:47:07 PM PST by terycarl
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To: Salamander

I’ll be here all week. Try the veal.

Every Ostrich a Czar...


19 posted on 01/25/2013 1:49:26 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: freedumb2003
Like American Idol contestants.

I understand what you mean even though I have never willingly watched any show likeAI.

The few times I have seen these sorts of shows (against my will at a sister-in-laws home) I was irritated immensely by the so called judges arrogance and snide remarks. I have never seen two episodes in the same season.

Having classical music education I know that the judges have less talent than some of the contestants they denigrate. Modern technology can cover a multitude of sins in music these days.

20 posted on 01/25/2013 1:54:10 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Dead Corpse

21 posted on 01/25/2013 1:54:58 PM PST by Salamander (Do not remove this tagline under penalty of law.)
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To: BenLurkin

Maybe this sort of thing explains the mass insanity/delusion/stupidity engulfing our dear nation these days? These weird particles have ripped apart the time-space continuum and thus NASA is doing muslim outreach, TSA agents are groping grannies and infants and we’re discussing minting trillion dollar coins?

Just a thought.


22 posted on 01/25/2013 1:55:13 PM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: Salamander

Well played... ;-)


23 posted on 01/25/2013 1:57:18 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten

Not entirely without merit. Considering the size scale at which the neurons in our brains function, sufficient fluctuation in space-time due to virtual particle pair annihilation could cause interruption in the system or replication errors could be introduced.

Just a thought...


24 posted on 01/25/2013 2:03:30 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: mikrofon

Well said, and perfect observation for this thread. It’s a little known fact that the great theoretical physicist Albert Einstein is responsible for putting the bubbles in beer:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096486/plotsummary


25 posted on 01/25/2013 2:05:01 PM PST by FateAmenableToChange
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To: BenLurkin
This says that empty space is really a frothy, turbulent sea full of virtual particles - matter and antimatter that spring in and out of existence so fast that we can't see them.

Isn't amazing what you can get a computer model to come up with. Now how about putting the keyboard down and going outside and make some real observations.

Dark Energy and Dark Matter, the Philogiston and aether of the 21st century

26 posted on 01/25/2013 2:05:45 PM PST by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: Dead Corpse
Personally, I've only aspired to be

;]

27 posted on 01/25/2013 2:06:43 PM PST by Salamander (Do not remove this tagline under penalty of law.)
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To: FateAmenableToChange

Fascinating!

But

Who put the bomp
In the bomp bah bomp bah bomp
Who put the ram
In the rama lama ding dong

Who put the bop
In the bop shoo bop shoo bop
Who put the dip
In the dip da dip da dip

?


28 posted on 01/25/2013 2:09:43 PM PST by Salamander (Do not remove this tagline under penalty of law.)
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To: BenLurkin

Here we go again with the “in and out of existence spontaneously” mantra.

Anybody who can’t see that is impossible, shouldn’t be a scientist.

First principle of rational thinking, is that something either exists OR doesn’t exist.

Aristotle: The law of non-contradiction. If someone denies that, it is impossible to have a rational conversation with him.


29 posted on 01/25/2013 2:14:37 PM PST by I want the USA back
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To: I want the USA back

30 posted on 01/25/2013 2:16:51 PM PST by Salamander (Do not remove this tagline under penalty of law.)
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To: Dead Corpse
Why would this virtual charge need to be uniform throughout the Universe?

Along those same lines, I have wondered, due to observations by astronomer Halton Arp, if different rules that apply to certain sections of space/time.
He has proved, beyond a doubt to me anyway, that two objects, billions of light years apart, do interact with each other.
Could be that the redshift data is right and they are far apart to us, but in their location of space/time (reference frame) distance is a little screwy (a lot shorter) between them.

More scientist seem to be interested in discrediting him than finding a reason for the interaction observed in his photographs of close galaxy and distant quasar gravitational interactions.

31 posted on 01/25/2013 2:21:42 PM PST by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin......Nuff said.)
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To: Salamander

No.

I want *dat* cordia.

Dat cordia over dere.


32 posted on 01/25/2013 2:22:31 PM PST by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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To: shibumi

Well...I am just SO glad you could finally make it!

:D

[we still got happy feets?]


33 posted on 01/25/2013 2:25:41 PM PST by Salamander (Do not remove this tagline under penalty of law.)
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To: Salamander

Yup!

<;^)


34 posted on 01/25/2013 2:42:42 PM PST by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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To: shibumi

35 posted on 01/25/2013 3:00:01 PM PST by Salamander (Do not remove this tagline under penalty of law.)
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To: Salamander
I have an official copy of one of these hanging on my wall in my office.

Braise Pob...

36 posted on 01/25/2013 3:34:42 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: BenLurkin

Hail Eris!


37 posted on 01/25/2013 3:40:18 PM PST by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Still bitterly clinging to rational thought despite it's unfashionability)
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To: BenLurkin

Just occurred to me that the media play the part of Eris perfectly - sowing discord among the enemies of socialism.


38 posted on 01/25/2013 3:47:34 PM PST by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Still bitterly clinging to rational thought despite it's unfashionability)
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To: Dead Corpse

LOL!

I remember “Bob” from late night TV when music videos first came out.

[I think maybe it was on USA’s Night Flight]


39 posted on 01/25/2013 4:14:27 PM PST by Salamander (Do not remove this tagline under penalty of law.)
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To: Salamander
The Church still lives. The End TimesTM are still upon us. ;-)
40 posted on 01/25/2013 6:03:13 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: Dead Corpse; shibumi

Since time is linear [though some would dispute that] the end times have always been upon us.

;]


41 posted on 01/25/2013 7:27:54 PM PST by Salamander (We're all kinds of animals comin' round here...occasional demons, too.)
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To: Salamander; Dead Corpse

Linear?

I have trouble seeing “linear” from inside this Chrono Synclastic Infundibulum.


42 posted on 01/25/2013 8:13:05 PM PST by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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To: 6SJ7; AdmSmith; AFPhys; Arkinsaw; allmost; aristotleman; autumnraine; Beowulf; Bones75; BroJoeK; ...

Un-oh, definitely of interest. Thanks BenLurkin!


· List topics · post a topic · subscribe · Google ·

43 posted on 01/25/2013 10:28:32 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: brytlea; cripplecreek; decimon; bigheadfred; KoRn; Grammy; married21; steelyourfaith; Mmogamer; ...

an extra to APoD members.

http://www.mikebrownsplanets.com/


44 posted on 01/25/2013 10:31:29 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: Salamander
Who put the dip
In the dip da dip da dip
the BIG BANG?...
...BOPPER?

45 posted on 01/26/2013 6:38:48 AM PST by skinkinthegrass (who'll take tomorrow,spend it all today;who can take your income,tax it all away..0'Bozo man can :-)
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To: BenLurkin

“Many galaxies appear to have stronger gravity - and thus more mass - than can be explained by their visible matter alone.”

I recall reading a sci-fi book that where many of the dwarf suns are actually bigger suns being seen through dyson spheres.

Fregeards


46 posted on 01/26/2013 7:05:49 AM PST by Ransomed
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To: Dead Corpse
Well, after doing some light math in my head, I disagree and I'll show my work:

Now I'm having flashbacks from calculus and there's no way I could work those problems out on a supercomputer, let alone in my head.

It's pretty amazing that Hawking can do things like that in his head. I may not agree with the guy but there's no doubt he's one smart dude.

I stole the equations from Wiki's page on Hawking radiation.

Hawking radiation

No doubt zerO will solve this problem of virtual particles. If they're appearing and then disappearing because the anti and regular matter combine; shouldn't we get some energy out of that along the lines of E=MC²???

47 posted on 01/26/2013 2:06:58 PM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Lx

It’s like learning a language. Once you know the symbols and the syntax, everything else is writing the story.


48 posted on 01/26/2013 8:02:12 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: Lx

Due to the fact that they are virtual particles of nearly no mass, they would emit the occasional photon. The crux comes when virtual particle pairs don’t collide or actually form real particles.

Then they form protons and electrons. Then hydrogen. Then gas clouds. Then stars. And the whole shebang starts over again.

Ad infinitum...


49 posted on 01/26/2013 8:05:07 PM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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