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Mark Steyn: Bystanders in their own fate
Orange County Register ^ | 24 May 2013 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 05/24/2013 4:33:41 PM PDT by rjbemsha

On Wednesday, Drummer Lee Rigby of the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, a man who had served Queen and country honorably in the hell of Helmand Province in Afghanistan, emerged from his barracks on Wellington Street, named after the Duke thereof, in southeast London. Minutes later, he was hacked to death in broad daylight and in full view of onlookers by two men with machetes who crowed "Allahu Akbar!" as they dumped his carcass in the middle of the street like so much roadkill.

(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: islam; marksteyn; pc; steyn
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"The perpetrators did not, as the Tsarnaev brothers did in Boston, attempt to escape. Instead, they held court in the street, gloating over their trophy, and flagged down a London bus to demand the passengers record their triumph on film. As the crowd of bystanders swelled, the remarkably urbane savages posed for photographs with the remains of their victim while discoursing on the iniquities of Britain toward the Muslim world. "
1 posted on 05/24/2013 4:33:41 PM PDT by rjbemsha
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To: rjbemsha

Whattayaknow, takes a Brit to spell it out in plain English...er...yeah.

(Kudos, Mark!)


2 posted on 05/24/2013 4:45:30 PM PDT by Thorliveshere (Tais deau sá taghdedaul!)
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To: rjbemsha

He is right about the passivity of the Brits. Thank God there are still some (although they are beat down by the police) who would stand up for their country.


3 posted on 05/24/2013 4:50:33 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: rjbemsha

I was going to say that, over here, these two ***** would’ve probably been dead two seconds after the attack, but in dear leader’s America, their crime probably would’ve immediately been forgotten while those who gave them what they deserve were made the criminals of the hour.


4 posted on 05/24/2013 4:59:47 PM PDT by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be purchased and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
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To: McGavin999
I have a Brit friend. This is what he sent to me about my outrage of the attack and the possibility of a conceal carry person in the U.S. taking him out during the attack.

From my friend: "The attack on our soldier was very exceptional .... we have had attacks in Ireland on individual soldiers, by the IRA, but those have mostly been car bombs or shootings so far as I remember. The two assailants were shot, but not killed, by police as soon as they arrived on the scene. These people made no attempt to hide or run away .... they expected and wanted arrest. No-one could have prevented the attack and it is likely more would have been killed or injured if a member of the public had intervened with a gun. As it was, members of the public were actually able to talk to the assailants after the attack, the bravery of which may have helped in keeping the men in the vicinity. Instead of martyrdom these people will be tried and sentenced to life imprisonment. I believe these sorts of attacks will continue to be extremely rare in the UK. However, recent political rhetoric has not helped. I hope our government will realize that. Also, I continue to be extremely concerned at the policies of the US and UK regarding the use of drones, which cause immense resentment in Muslim countries with the extent of “collateral damage” to civilians." That my friends is from a Brit friend.

5 posted on 05/24/2013 5:23:03 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: rjbemsha

“The perpetrators did not, as the Tsarnaev brothers did in Boston, attempt to escape. Instead, they held court in the street, gloating over their trophy, and flagged down a London bus to demand the passengers record their triumph on film. As the crowd of bystanders swelled, the remarkably urbane savages posed for photographs with the remains of their victim while discoursing on the iniquities of Britain toward the Muslim world. “

Why are these guys still alive?

Murder a soldier in such a heinous fashion around here and things would not go well for you.


6 posted on 05/24/2013 5:25:12 PM PDT by rdcbn
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To: Bronzy

I’m afraid Britain is gone.


7 posted on 05/24/2013 5:31:34 PM PDT by Menehune56 ("Let them hate so long as they fear" (Oderint Dum Metuant), Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC))
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To: Menehune56

I sent him some news reports (videos) of conceal carry people who saved lives. Haven’t gotten a reply yet.


8 posted on 05/24/2013 5:39:59 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: rjbemsha

The Brit’s disarmed willingly. They were told cops would protect them. What a bloody irony the truth is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKdBxpKqUvs


9 posted on 05/24/2013 5:40:16 PM PDT by jacheff
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To: Bronzy

Good grief. But, sadly, I doubt that you’d find much different here in the US.


10 posted on 05/24/2013 5:47:38 PM PDT by livius
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To: jacheff

It took the Brit police 20 minutes to respond to this incident even though they heard what was going on almost instantly. When when minutes count, the police never come until those minutes pass. The police are second responders. The victim and those nearby are the true first responders.


11 posted on 05/24/2013 5:49:39 PM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: Bronzy
members of the public were actually able to talk to the assailants after the attack, the bravery of which may have helped in keeping the men in the vicinity.

Oh, please!


12 posted on 05/24/2013 5:50:44 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Bronzy
No-one could have prevented the attack and it is likely more would have been killed or injured if a member of the public had intervened with a gun.

What an utterly asinine and chauvinist statement.

How did you come to befriend such a buffoon?

13 posted on 05/24/2013 5:56:50 PM PDT by papertyger (Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be broken....)
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To: Bronzy

They, like is happening quickly here in America, are fully pussyfied. They are like women and children and much like happens to ALL pussy nations, they and the rest of Europe will be replaced and they are too pussy to see it coming.


14 posted on 05/24/2013 5:56:59 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Former Fetus

He thinks it is terrible that I live where I need a gun for protection. I would have to did deep for that email. I have just told him that we are friends in a different world.


15 posted on 05/24/2013 5:57:57 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: papertyger

He is a friend of a friend of mine. We email. I am the instigator of protecting our Second Amendment. As we email, I bring up politics and issues. I guess his opposition to guns surprised me at first.


16 posted on 05/24/2013 6:05:30 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: Bronzy

Here is another email from him about guns:

“The following comment is not intended to upset or inflame .... just a point of view from another human being -
Re the video and your views about gun ownership .... I’m afraid you would never convince me of the merits. In my view, the benefits of normalization of ownership are pure fantasy. To live in a society where neighbor fears neighbor to such an extent that each must own a gun for “protection”, is a nightmare horror scenario. As events have demonstrated time and time again, no-one can know who will run amok and reach for a gun, if owned or available, to vent their disturbed feelings. Just the show of a gun also makes you a target. Better to lose property than life. Gun ownership for sport, or for familiarity in registered, licensed locations, under secure lock and key when not in use, is one thing .... as is licensed ownership by professional hunters and a few others. Gun ownership in the family home, coat pocket, etc. is both seriously crazy and dangerous.
- Just a view from a man living in Britain, where general gun ownership is illegal, where policemen do not routinely patrol with a hip gun, and everyone feels a lot safer for it. I hope that one day, all Americans can experience the same for themselves.”


17 posted on 05/24/2013 6:09:26 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: rjbemsha; doug from upland
Drummer Lee Rigby, died in a street that should soon be carrying his name; nobody came [to his rescue]
Where were the coppers? taking their time as they searched for their guns; no one was saved.

DFU, see what you can do with this.

18 posted on 05/24/2013 6:09:40 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Undicted Co-conspirators: The Mainstream Media)
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To: Bronzy

Gotcha!

Friend-in-law.

;o)


19 posted on 05/24/2013 6:22:38 PM PDT by papertyger (Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be broken....)
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To: Bronzy
Better to lose property than life

I guess UK is ready for a conquest. They won't fight for their property. In the end, they will not fight against being enslaved - as long as they are permitted to stay alive (at the pleasure of their new masters, of course.)

20 posted on 05/24/2013 6:26:18 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Bronzy

He sounds just like my brother! My whole family, in Spain, cannot believe that I live in the “Wild West”. When I got married and my mom asked me what special present she could get me, I asked for a shotgun...she eventually and reluctantly agreed.


21 posted on 05/24/2013 6:39:06 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Bronzy

Your Brit friend is a milquetoast.


22 posted on 05/24/2013 6:40:24 PM PDT by kiltie65
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To: Bronzy
“The following comment is not intended to upset or inflame .... just a point of view from another human being -

In other words..."I'm going to say doctrinaire, pejorative, and Insulting things about your viewpoint, but I'm invoking the "opinion" clause, so you can't take me to task or be otherwise offended for it....

It's the adult iteration of that little schoolyard bastard that would always scream "you missed" when playing "Army," even if you had your index finger in his ear.

23 posted on 05/24/2013 6:42:36 PM PDT by papertyger (Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be broken....)
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To: Greysard
In the end, they will not fight against being enslaved - as long as they are permitted to stay alive (at the pleasure of their new masters, of course.)

"Please don't kill me!"

24 posted on 05/24/2013 6:43:07 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Former Fetus; Greysard
I usually just chit chat. But, the instigator in me comes out and I have to comment on politics. For the most, I try to keep emails friendly.
25 posted on 05/24/2013 6:44:23 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: papertyger
Yeah, I just eventually go to friendly chat. The instigator in me pops out at times. I really don't want to piss him off.
26 posted on 05/24/2013 6:48:29 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: Bronzy

I have friends from the UK who say the same things. That insufferable and undeserved sense of moral superiority colors everything they do and say. The sad thing is that they took that same attitude with Nazi Germany. I guess that worked out OK, ‘cause they’re doing it again.


27 posted on 05/24/2013 6:49:53 PM PDT by danno3150
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To: Jim from C-Town
They, like is happening quickly here in America, are fully pussyfied

Pussified is very accurate. Lots of pussified people, and it begins with the concept that unauthorized violence is very bad. Citizens should always let the government take care of things because as we all know that when seconds count, the police are minutes away.

28 posted on 05/24/2013 6:53:49 PM PDT by eldoradude (Let's water the tree of liberty with THEIR blood...)
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To: danno3150
That insufferable and undeserved sense of moral superiority colors everything they do and say.

That work only so long as you go where you can, instead of where you want.

29 posted on 05/24/2013 6:59:30 PM PDT by papertyger (Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be broken....)
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To: danno3150

Do you get the itch to politic with them?


30 posted on 05/24/2013 7:10:04 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: Menehune56

England is indeed gone.


31 posted on 05/24/2013 7:32:31 PM PDT by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can STILL go straight to hell.)
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To: Bronzy

Does your Brit friend have any idea that his country has already been conquered?

No offense, but what a fool.

I’ll take concealed carry in this country any day. At least there is the possibility that a true first responder (always a citizen) will be able to stop evil in its tracks.


32 posted on 05/24/2013 7:44:06 PM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

No. He thinks it sad I feel a need to have a gun. I have that email somewhere. Will share it with you someday. Maybe I will find it tonight.


33 posted on 05/24/2013 7:52:58 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: 3Fingas

The police are not there to prevent crimes. They are there to file reports after crimes have been committed.


34 posted on 05/24/2013 7:57:36 PM PDT by generally (Don't be stupid. We have politicians for that.)
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To: Bronzy

I will on occassion, but I had one friend make a smug comment about our “cowboy mentality” and I went a 20 minute rant about football hooligans, WW II era Nazi sympathizers and appeasers, current day support for the Palestines and how that all added up to ugly, bigotted society that had best keep their opinions to themselves. They’re still priggesh they talk about the US, but they now do it in very small doses around me.


35 posted on 05/24/2013 7:59:01 PM PDT by danno3150
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To: HMS Surprise
This is from our correspondence in January after a gun debate: "Looking at Fox News for the truth is like reading a direct propaganda message from Mr Murdock who would love to take over the Republican Party. Piers Morgan is doing a fine job of putting some hard questions in front of the US public. Up until recently, few have dared challenge the NRA .... I would rather it be your legislators from all political wings, but if it takes a Brit to stir things up first, so be it *:) happy." Yes, from my Brit friend.
36 posted on 05/24/2013 8:04:50 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe
Here is the reply to my email when I told him about my S&W Revolver. “Many thanks.
Sorry to hear about the gun. If 5 bullets aren't enough, none will be. I prefer the words of an NRA supporter of longstanding writing on a blog I sometimes contribute to -
“As a life-long member, and ardent NRA supporter, I have NO problem with ANY of the president's actions.”
Posted by: NRA gun nut | Jan 16, 2013 6:04:40 PM
I'm sure there are many more like him.
Best wishes” He is lost to guns. I do not know his NRA friend.
37 posted on 05/24/2013 8:14:31 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: Bronzy
Sorry, I cannot get things to post in paragraphs.
38 posted on 05/24/2013 8:16:37 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: rjbemsha
"One in 10 Britons under 25 now is Muslim. That number will increase, through immigration, disparate birth rates, and conversions like those of the Woolwich killers, British born and bred."

True. Mark wrote a great piece. Well done.


39 posted on 05/24/2013 8:24:18 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: rjbemsha

Ah, the spirit of Neville Chamberlain lives on in the British people.....


40 posted on 05/24/2013 9:37:54 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: JLS

Ping!


41 posted on 05/24/2013 9:52:13 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: TheOldLady; Rummyfan; Howlin; riley1992; Miss Marple; Dane; sinkspur; steve; kattracks; ...

Mark Steyn ping.

Freepmail me, if you want on or off the Mark Steyn ping list.

Thanks for the ping Slings and Arrows.


42 posted on 05/25/2013 7:25:33 AM PDT by JLS
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To: rjbemsha
File it under "Suicide of the West."

.


43 posted on 05/25/2013 7:36:15 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: McGavin999
. Nevertheless, there is a disturbing passivity to this scene: a street full of able-bodied citizens being lectured to by blood-soaked murderers who have no fear that anyone will be minded to interrupt their diatribes.

You mentioned the passivity of the Brits.

...It is coming soon to the U.S. Our Marxist dominated teachers colleges have stuffed our nation's socialist-entitlement ( and godless) K-12 schools full to the brim with Prog-Marxists who are emasculating our boys and tuning our nation's girls into befuddled proggy zombies.

.....Christians and conservatives let them! And....Christians and conservatives continue to allow these "schools" to remain open.

God will not save our nation. Why should he when every day we turn our nation's children over to the enemy?

44 posted on 05/25/2013 9:15:40 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: McGavin999
Oh this pesky HTML! This should read:

Nevertheless, there is a disturbing passivity to this scene: a street full of able-bodied citizens being lectured to by blood-soaked murderers who have no fear that anyone will be minded to interrupt their diatribes.

You mentioned the passivity of the Brits.

...It is coming soon to the U.S. OurMarxist dominated teachers colleges have stuffed our nation's socialist-entitlement ( and godless) K-12 schools full to the brim with Prog-Marxists who are emasculating our boys and tuning our nation's girls into befuddled proggy zombies.

.....Christians and conservatives let them! And....Christians and conservatives continue to allow these "schools" to remain open.

God will not save our nation. Why should he when every day we turn our nation's children over to the enemy?

45 posted on 05/25/2013 9:17:00 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: rjbemsha
One in 10 Britons under 25 now is Muslim.

England is in serious trouble and it is coming soon to the U.S. if the Proggy-Marxists continue their grip on all of our most influential cultural institutions. ( Schools being the most important.)

46 posted on 05/25/2013 9:20:05 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: Travis McGee

And in the UK, dozens have been arrested and charged with hate crimes for posting pretty much what you just posted, being characterized by the local politicians as being ‘terrorist extremists’ who ‘must be banned in a civil society.’

In the bizarre circus, the two who were filmed with bloody hands, one of which who stated for the world to hear that this was revenge for the Muslims killed by British soldiers, they are referred to as ‘suspects’ in the British media. Someone arrested for tweeting a picture of Islamics committing violence is not a ‘suspected hater’, but immediately tried and convicted in the press for their hate speech.

Tweet a pic, go to jail. Run over a soldier with a car, leap out, slash him, attempt to behead him, and have thousands rush to defend the faith that spawned such an atrocity, and jail any who expose the connection, or condemn the actions of Islam.

Yes, such acts of terror shall never defeat the British way of life or free speech. Indeed, the politicians are correct in this. As free speech has already been defeated, not by acts of terrorists, but by acts of cowards who already surrender to Islam.


47 posted on 05/25/2013 9:20:32 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: kingu
This bizarre thinking and action is the result of the “Demoralization” that Yuri Besmenov warned.

And...Just one more generation of Proggy-Marxist indoctrination in the schools and from the Prog-Marxist media and our nation will be just as confused and ripe for the fall ( if not already.)

48 posted on 05/25/2013 9:41:40 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: rjbemsha

I am a man out of time, a dinosaur, a relic ...

I had always held that a civilization has to be forcefully protected from barbarity, not to invite it in, not to coddle it ...

But apparently, most people are fine with neutered men, “empowered” women, a police state, and a government that is both God and Daddy ...

And when the barbarians show up to behead them and burn down their neighborhoods, they rationalize it and pretend for another day they will not be ultimately consumed by the barbarity.

F&%$ ‘em ... I’m staying out of it, on my own turf, and God be with you if you come to mess with me.


49 posted on 05/25/2013 3:38:39 PM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: Bronzy
This is from our correspondence in January after a gun debate:
"Looking at Fox News for the truth is like reading a direct propaganda message from Mr Murdock who would love to take over the Republican Party. Piers Morgan is doing a fine job of putting some hard questions in front of the US public. Up until recently, few have dared challenge the NRA .... I would rather it be your legislators from all political wings, but if it takes a Brit to stir things up first, so be it *:) happy."
Yes, from my Brit friend.
Tell your friend that it is only too easy to be led by monopolistic journalism. In Britain they have the BBC, but Americans have their own journalism monopoly centered on the Associated Press. And the first thing any journalism monopoly will tell you is that it is objective - which, seeing that no one can know that they themselves are objective, can only be self-deception, or a lie. It does not matter how many people agree with each other, if you know that they are all members of a mutual admiration society. For when any one of them is wrong all of the others will automatically swear to it. Adam Smith called them out perfectly when he said that      
People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty and justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies; much less to render them necessary. - Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations (Book I, Ch 10)
Your friend will protest, no doubt, that things are not that bad. The answer can only be that in America they are indeed - at any give time there is always a propaganda campaign afoot to embarrass someone - someone who in reality is being used as a “typical example” of a Republican.

The infamous George Zimmerman is an egregious case. Why is he infamous? Well, he has a name which indicates he is white, and he shot a black, and after police questioning was initially released on grounds that it was pretty clearly self defense. And our journalism monopoly, after some prodding by some people with an axe to grind and money to be gained, launched a propaganda campaign against Mr. Zimmerman. It is easy enough to learn, on the internet but not from the journalism monopoly, that:

I could of course go on and on; the point is made that anyone attending exclusively to the journalism monopoly would have an impression of the case which is at odds with all of the most credible evidence. The case is a molehill seen as a mountain when looking through a microscope.

And something of the sort is being promoted by the journalism monopoly all the time. It is that bad.

The only possible conclusion seems to be that journalism monopolies tend to arise spontaneously, and that any journalism monopoly will tend to promote the importance of the journalist, And that leads directly to a denigration of the people upon whom the public actually depends to get things done. And that leads directly to socialist politics, which is nothing but a bunch of politicians posturing as if they are more reliable than the people who actually have a track record of accomplishment - in league with journalists who cooperate with them.

As to any pride your friend has in cheering on a “brave” attack on the NRA:

The NRA is actually a Civil Rights organization, founded in the aftermath of the Civil War by Union generals. It was founded to promote civil society in opposition to the KKK.

I do not enjoy paying for insurance on my property, but I do - and the fact that I do does not mean that I intend to burn my house down. The purchase of a weapon which can be of substantial use in an emergency would be a similar decision - expensive, and costly in time and attention in order to keep it both safe and readily available in the event of need. A decision, certainly, to take up a burden which any sensible person would prefer to have no need to take up.

But then there is the issue of the meaning of the individual. Is the individual really merely a danger to “society?” Were that so, the individual policeman would be as terrible a danger as anyone else. Or is the individual who is not significantly part of the problem, a part of the solution? One answer to that is merely to compare the number of gun owners to the annual number of gun murders - and learn that that ratio is in the thousands. Thus we know that legal gun owners are not significant contributors to the problem - and almost inevitably are more of a solution than a problem to society. The difference between an armed policeman and a armed but law-abiding citizen is a mere matter of degree. Not the least of those differences is the fact that the criminal is on notice to avoid the attention of the policeman, and so is more likely to be confronted in the act by an armed civilian than by a cop. Should that happen, of course, the rational thing for the law-abiding citizen to do is not to go into a murderous rampage over a trifle, and the rational thing for the criminal, even if armed, to do is simply to withdraw. The incident might go unreported, if for no other reason that the defender knows that the Piers Morgans of the world are ever on the lookout for the chance to make someone who looks too Republican out to be a villain.


50 posted on 05/26/2013 10:00:46 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (“Liberalism” is a conspiracy against the public by wire-service journalism.)
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