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Goodbye Windows 8, hello Windows 8.1
ZDNet ^ | 07/30/2013 | Mary Branscombe

Posted on 07/30/2013 11:15:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Consider the following: Internet Explorer 11 is available as a preview for Windows 7 or as part of the Windows 8.1 preview, but not for Windows 8. Similarly, PowerShell 4 will run on Windows 7 or Windows 8.1, but not Windows 8 — even though it will be available for Windows Server 2012, which is the same core code as Windows 8.

So does this mean Microsoft giving up on Windows 8? Um, no.

Windows 8.1 is Windows 8, as far as Microsoft is concerned. It's an update to Windows 8 that will be available in the Windows Store, free of charge. It has new APIs that aren't in Windows 8 that Internet Explorer can use.

Microsoft will port some — but not all — of those back to Windows 7 for IE 11; as we understand it, the HTML5 Media Source Extensions and Encrypted Media Extensions support that lets you stream Netflix in IE 11 without needing a plugin won't make it to Windows 7.

It has new versions of the controls developers built apps with too; the new alarms and timer app in Windows 8.1 uses the Windows 8.1 version of a control that's three times faster than the Windows 8 control on a low-end PC. "We could have done a lot of profiling of data, a lot of tweaking — or we could just upgrade to the version 8.1 control," program manager Steven Abrams said at the Build conference.

Couldn't Microsoft just port those APIs and controls to Windows 8 as well? Well, it already has — that's Windows 8.1.

Microsoft is betting that if you're prepared to install a new version of the browser and the updates to make it work, you'll be willing to do that as part of an update that also gives you the Start button so many people have been asking for and a bunch of new features.

Microsoft is also trying to put out a 'new version' of Windows in a year, rather than three, with a new version of the browser in a year rather than 18 months (which is how long it took to get from IE 9 to IE 10) — and as part of a continuous development schedule that put the usual SP1 contents into Windows 8 before it went on sale and has given us 700 improvements to Windows 8 since then.

Given that there are only so many hours in the day and only so many engineers on the team, it makes sense that Microsoft has decided to prioritise resources for Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 and create, test and support two versions of the IE 11 preview rather than three.

Keeping up with a continuous development cadence is going to require Microsoft to make a lot of rational decisions that don't make everyone feel warm and fuzzy. Similarly, when IE 12 comes along, I expect it to only run on Windows 7 and Windows 8.2.

You can also expect to see a significant push to get you to upgrade to Windows 8.1. The way Microsoft is trying to make that acceptable to end users and businesses alike is by making upgrading easier and promising compatibility. "Upgrading to Windows 8.1 is simple as the update does not introduce any new hardware requirements and all existing Windows Store apps are compatible," says Erwin Visser, the Windows general manager who handles the business side of the market.

That means that all Windows 8 devices will run Windows 8.1, that all Windows 8 Windows Store apps will run on Windows 8.1 (something they're working on but that isn't true in the preview), that drivers and desktop applications will work in the same way. And that upgrading to Windows 8.1 won't mean wiping systems and installing a corporate image and reloading your applications and data. Visser calls upgrading to Windows 8.1 much more like running updates or installing a service pack. And if you were planning on switching to Windows 8, just plan to switch to 8.1 instead.

To use the car metaphor that's so popular, in a year, the Windows team isn't rebuilding the car or even fitting a new engine; it's changing the tyres, swapping out the instruments on the dashboards, fitting a new car radio and tuning the engine control software.

It's worth noting that it's different for servers. A server upgrade is a major task and Microsoft doesn't expect anyone to upgrade their servers every year; the best they can hope for is that any new servers you put in place will run the latest version of Windows Server. Also, Windows Server 2012 R2 is a major upgrade from Server 2012, with a significant number of new features — it's a much more impressive and compelling update than Windows 8.1, ironically. Windows Server 2012 systems will be around for a long time so they need PowerShell 4 and its major management improvements like Desired State Configuration.

Microsoft hopes that Windows 8 won't be around for long after Windows 8.1 comes out. It hopes everyone using Windows 8 will upgrade, just as it hopes we're all using automatic updates to keep our PCs up to date. After all, we're telling Microsoft to keep up with Apple and Android; surely we want the new, improved stuff, especially as it's free with better features — why wouldn't you want that, thinks Microsoft. And if it can just get us to keep updating our PCs year after year, it will never have to deal with a decade of XP again.

With that combination of incentive and what we're telling Microsoft we want, why would it make sense for it to give us any reason to stay on Windows 8 when we've been so vocal about telling Microsoft to change it?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Computers/Internet; Society
KEYWORDS: microsoft; miserablefailure; msn; windows; windows8; windows81
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To: Revelation 911

If you think Microsoft is marketing to you, the retail customer, then you’ve obviously never been on the business side of the coin.

Microsoft OSes happen to come on most retail computers. That’s not marketing, that’s market share.


51 posted on 07/30/2013 12:22:55 PM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: ShadowAce
LOL! I never do those things.

It's kind of like cleaning your guns, it's all in the fun of owning them!!

and the responsibility

52 posted on 07/30/2013 12:25:15 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Rats vs. GOPe = Same train, different speed.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I’ve learned Win 8 enough to get around, but I still prefer 7. These additions, or, lets call them what they are, FIXES, to Win 8 will be a very welcome addition!


53 posted on 07/30/2013 12:26:06 PM PDT by Paradox (Unexpected things coming for the next few years.)
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To: montag813

“I think Windows 8 is great. I don’t get all the whiners” I agree completely.


54 posted on 07/30/2013 12:29:15 PM PDT by Rannug ("God has given it to me, let him who touches it beware.")
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To: Las Vegas Ron

My filesystems don’t even have to tools to perform those manually. It’s all automatic and transparent.


55 posted on 07/30/2013 12:35:16 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: Rannug

The whiners could go to whatever flavor of Linux turns their crank, or maybe a Macincrap with it’s conveniently overpriced OS and blingy hardware.

If they are still using Windows of any kind it is because Windows will provide capability and run software that Linux et al won’t. Running Win 8 on a non-touch tech machine? Slap yourself for doing that, load Win 7 or upgrade the machine to touch tech.

In the work I do I’m a poweruser and nothing I use or do would work well, if at all, on the other alternatives. Use the OS that makes you putter flutter and stay away from those terrible Microsoft products; spare the rest of us from your whining.


56 posted on 07/30/2013 12:39:40 PM PDT by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: ShadowAce
..and if I could type....

My filesystems don’t even have the tools to perform those manually. It’s all automatic and transparent.

57 posted on 07/30/2013 12:41:06 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: ShadowAce

Meh, I have auto defrags but I still manually clean up the clutter...I’m just a hands on kind of guy I guess.


58 posted on 07/30/2013 12:42:03 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Rats vs. GOPe = Same train, different speed.)
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To: RJS1950
Running Win 8 on a non-touch tech machine? Slap yourself for doing that, load Win 7 or upgrade the machine to touch tech.

Wrong answer, as apparently even MicroSoft is willing to admit.

59 posted on 07/30/2013 12:42:41 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: discostu

Yes, I recognize the symptoms. I see Flash crashes all the time in Chrome.


60 posted on 07/30/2013 12:44:21 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

Thanks, I will look at the TSRs, and I see plenty of them on my system. But yes, I do regular cleanups with various freeware utilities, so that a messy disk is not a problem, but memory could very well be, as you suggest.

Still, going back to my dream PC operating system, I should be able to run multiple sessions, under the same or different logins, on the same single screen, and from the single keyboard, as I have been doing for how many years or decades on a Solaris workstation. Why, I could do that on a VMS workstation 20 years ago. Inability to do this kind of multisession interaction with Windows is the reason why I still use my laptop’s 15.6’’ screen and can’t see a good excuse to upgrade to a larger attached monitor.


61 posted on 07/30/2013 12:53:55 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: varmintman

Opera, you say? I’ve been using Chrome, and for some things Firefox, but I’ll try Opera. Thanks for the recommendation.


62 posted on 07/30/2013 12:55:30 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Revolting cat!

Good ol Adobe, making really crappy software and trusting people will blame Windows. Which is of course why Jobs banned their crap from iPads. Obviously Windows shouldn’t be giving Flash all the resources just because it asks for them, but Adobe shouldn’t make Flash more of an unstable pig every release either.


63 posted on 07/30/2013 12:57:27 PM PDT by discostu (Go do the voodoo that you do so well.)
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To: RJS1950

I don’t want a touch screen. Of course by the same token you really don’t need a touch screen for 8, there’s really no functional difference between a mouse cursor and your finger, except the cursor doesn’t leave Cheetos crumbs on the screen.


64 posted on 07/30/2013 1:00:05 PM PDT by discostu (Go do the voodoo that you do so well.)
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To: discostu

I figure there must be some conflict or incompatibility between what Flash is doing and what Windows, and the underlying x86 hardware expects, that cause these crashes, which take as you said a long time to complete, I’ve never timed them, but a minute or longer is standard, I think.


65 posted on 07/30/2013 1:01:50 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Revolting cat!

The big problem is that Flash hooks into the browsers, ALL the browsers, and remember what Windows Explorer actually is. So when Flash begins its pre-crash it seizes all the browsers up, which includes Explorer, which kills your ability to do pretty much anything until it unseizes.


66 posted on 07/30/2013 1:06:24 PM PDT by discostu (Go do the voodoo that you do so well.)
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To: Obadiah

The market evolved and fragmented. Microsoft failed keep up.


67 posted on 07/30/2013 1:10:51 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Revolting cat!
I tell ya, I’ve been so happy since the traditional Microsoft blue screen has been replaced by the machine freezes every time a browser waits for a response from some website.

Even worse on the military network when Outlook gets busy...

68 posted on 07/30/2013 1:12:47 PM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: Revolting cat!
I do all that now.

Of course, I don't run Windows.

69 posted on 07/30/2013 1:13:00 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: SeekAndFind

Windows 8 is SO bad no one with software products even bothered to write them for this crap of an OS.

I do bookkeeping work and got a client that put Quickbooks Pro onto a computer with Windows 8. It’s not supported by Intuit and can’t be used remotely. The same with VersaCheck.

Had to get a refund and reload it all to a PC using XP.


70 posted on 07/30/2013 1:13:24 PM PDT by Fledermaus (Note to the NSA: I approved this dissention. What are you going to do about it Punks?)
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To: ShadowAce
I do all that now.

What, VMS is still alive? Solaris?

71 posted on 07/30/2013 1:16:07 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Revolting cat!

Linux, of course.


72 posted on 07/30/2013 1:16:36 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: Revelation 911

May The Force Restart Be With You!


73 posted on 07/30/2013 1:17:17 PM PDT by mikrofon (I find your lack of iFaith disturbingÂ…)
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To: SeekAndFind

Windows 8 is soon to join Windows ME and Windows Vista as flops. Windows 7 was a good successor to the venerable Windows XP so why did Microsoft have to jump to Windows 8 with all the whiz-bang stuff? Just like Windows Vista Windows 8 has a whole bunch of RAM hogging features that do nothing.


74 posted on 07/30/2013 1:36:39 PM PDT by The Great RJ (construction)
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To: Obadiah

“Maybe it’s just me, but it seems Microsoft has lost their way. It just seems like everything they do is a mess, a flop, or both. I really question Microsoft’s ongoing reason for existing. Seems everyone else is eating their lunch. Also, it seems like Microsoft has a distinct tin ear when it comes to the consumer.”

It’s not just you.


75 posted on 07/30/2013 1:52:00 PM PDT by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: catnipman

MS should come out with different but compatible OS’s for different people. A very light Linux-type Windows would probably sell very well.


76 posted on 07/30/2013 1:53:07 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL

That’s what they’re trying to do with Home, Premium, Enterprise, Ultimate, etc.


77 posted on 07/30/2013 2:24:11 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: Pontiac

“Somebody wake me when MS comes out with a stable version of Windows”

You missed it, it was Win 7.


78 posted on 07/30/2013 2:24:56 PM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: SeekAndFind

Will it lose the ugly desktop and revert to Win7 look?


79 posted on 07/30/2013 2:28:52 PM PDT by hattend (Firearms and ammunition...the only growing industries under the Obama regime.)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
TSR's are notorious for lock ups!

80 posted on 07/30/2013 2:52:52 PM PDT by shineon
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To: SeekAndFind
Microsoft is also trying to put out a 'new version' of Windows in a year, rather than three,

That is as ludicrous as Firefox's rapid release insanity.
81 posted on 07/30/2013 2:52:57 PM PDT by TomGuy (.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Hubby says every other OS is OK, you need the odd numbered ones.

I actually bought a lap top this year because i realized if I waited I’d be stuck with windows 8.


82 posted on 07/30/2013 4:09:27 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: VanDeKoik
I for one have really been enjoying 8.1

What are you running, Enterprise Preview?

83 posted on 07/30/2013 5:13:42 PM PDT by montag813 (NO AMNESTY * ENFORCE THE LAW * http://StandWithArizona.com)
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To: Spruce
I am not a huge fan of metro, but that is just fine too.

Windows-D and it's gone. Big whoop. Takes half a second.

84 posted on 07/30/2013 5:14:25 PM PDT by montag813 (NO AMNESTY * ENFORCE THE LAW * http://StandWithArizona.com)
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To: montag813

Nope. Just the standard 8.1 preview.


85 posted on 07/30/2013 5:32:22 PM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: Revolting cat!; ShadowAce
I figure there must be some conflict or incompatibility between what Flash is doing and what Windows, and the underlying x86 hardware expects, that cause these crashes, which take as you said a long time to complete, I’ve never timed them, but a minute or longer is standard, I think.

i've had the same problem with Flash Player on OpenSUSE 12.3. It's not just a Windows issue. Flash is just a piece of garbage.

86 posted on 07/30/2013 7:22:56 PM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord ((I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper))
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To: dangerdoc
You missed it, it was Win 7.

I run windows 7 at work. I have at least 3 program crashes a day.

I guess I should be happy that it is no longer the entire system crash that I used to get with XP.

87 posted on 07/31/2013 4:09:22 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: TomGuy
That is as ludicrous as Firefox's rapid release insanity.

Apple has gone to yearly updates of OS X - not as large as previous "point" releases, but it ensures the OS evolves as a reasonable rate. I'd think a shorter OS cycle for Microsoft would help them prioritize what they need to be doing rather than the complete UI overhauls they insist on putting in every release.

Firefox's "new public release version every 32 hours or so" schedule is indeed insane, however.

88 posted on 07/31/2013 4:16:37 AM PDT by kevkrom (It's not "immigration reform", it's an "amnesty bill". Take back the language!)
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To: SeekAndFind
Instead of focusing on new products every year focus on making the ones you have more stable, reliable, and easy to use? Windows still has not caught on to the fact playing button, button, who's got the button, with well known features & functions every few years is not the type of upgrades people are looking for.

I love XP but the first thing I did was switch over to the classic set up so I could find everything I needed. Make that default with the new as an option and products may catch on faster. Oh and Touch Screen Desktop W-8? Come on MS get real and practical. That one should not have made it past their first level supervisor's desk.

89 posted on 07/31/2013 7:37:31 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: SeekAndFind

It won’t cause the fury Win8 did but the damage is done: this product cycle was a complete disaster for and by them.

And they’re on-track to make things worse: they’ve got some seriously pissed off IT staffs looking straight at them and they don’t look like they’re backing down from the push to make a Core/Powershell server install ‘Best Practice’.

All of the tech companies in the Seattle region are getting hit hard - but, Microsoft the hardest - by someone they don’t even compete with: Amazon.com.

They’ve become a talent black hole, sucking in everyone they can get their hands on and it’s causing pain everywhere....

You wouldn’t believe how much my view of South Lake Union has changed in the last two years. To give you an idea of how bad/awesome it is, I took a look at the Amazon career page a couple weeks ago, submitting a search for “Manager” in “WA - Seattle”.....

I got 72 pages with 20 hits per page. lol


90 posted on 08/16/2013 9:49:48 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Thought Puzzle: Describe Islam without using the phrase "mental disorder" more than four times.)
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To: Pontiac

Your IT staff is the problem, there...or you have a vendor who’s failed to properly debug their software.


91 posted on 08/16/2013 9:57:36 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Thought Puzzle: Describe Islam without using the phrase "mental disorder" more than four times.)
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To: rarestia

I yanked them off the Trusted/Preferred Vendors list for the BS they pulled this product cycle. They’re barely competent, scamming, and their responses to the problems they’ve created have been nothing less than insulting.

If you work in enterprise licensing at MS, you’re going to have a rather annoying year.


92 posted on 08/16/2013 10:06:16 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Thought Puzzle: Describe Islam without using the phrase "mental disorder" more than four times.)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

I’ve had to run the MAP tool three times for true up, and leadership is livid over the numbers they’re getting. I’m just an engineer, but I can see the writing on the wall. I’ve been pushing for Ubuntu server since it’s supported cheaper than RHEL.


93 posted on 08/16/2013 10:53:04 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: montag813

The general consumer wouldn’t see the real problems with Win8: those are coming up in the workplace and are exasperated by nonsense Microsoft has thrown into other products.

They’ve tossed a ton of SMB IT staffs under the bus. You wouldn’t believe how infuriating it is to pay tens of thousands of dollars for “Software Assurance” licensing, only to have MS kick the training back 10 years. Now, instead of a few regulars calling about having forgotten a password every week or two, training and procedure docs have to be re-written, then classes have to be conducted and then we’re looking at 6 months of tapering-off questions and complaints.

Which is sort of fine if you don’t have any Access Data Projects in your domain AND YOU WERE TOLD A COUPLE YEARS AGO TO GET READY FOR THE CHANGE but, ADPs with SQL Server was a SMB best practice for almost 10 years: and MS yanked that data provider from Office 2013. It’s going to cost a minimum of $100,000 to fix that problem at my work. And you can’t wait around because copies of 2010 are getting snapped up all over by the suckers in the same boat as you.

With the economy the way it is, 25 million dollar companies can’t afford to get hit with unnecessary $100,000 IT expenses. Especially if there’s zero gain.

And there’s a lot more...like, this whole situation gets worse when looking at what MS wants to do with Server: or, what they don’t want to do....”work”. They’re grooming everyone for making a Core/PowerShell install of Server, the Best Practice and that means a living hell for SMB IT.

MS’s belief that overworked IT staffs aren’t going to have a problem admining a modern network via a “DOS” prompt, is insane at face value. There were what, 100 DOS commands in 6.22? MS just passed 500 PowerShell commands and applets/scripts.

Who has time to memorize that crap? And the only time you’re really going to need it is the worst time to have anything other than expertise in it: servers are down. So you’ll be sitting in a server-room, hunting through tech forums, on your cell phone (because those a-holes at MS don’t bother with help files, anymore), looking for a script someone said fixed a problem like yours, while the entire company is breathing down your neck.

Is that not enough reason for a little whining? If not, here’s some icing on the Eight Cake. it’s a scam. It’s Windows 7 with some functionality removed to speed it up, a Service Pack installed AND an alpha release of about a third of Windows 9 shoved in there: that’s Metro.

MS is getting their ass beaten by Apple and Google in the “App” marketplace and they have no product capable of producing the demand they need to catch up. Metro is their attempt to force that demand. There was no business reason, at all, to remove the Start Menu: zero. They didn’t even pull it until right before the RTM release of 8.

Touchscreens? No. Who’s dumb enough to deploy touchscreens anywhere other than tablets, laptops, POS/Retail outlets and kiosks? The ergonomic damage to the wrists 40+ hours a week can do is nothing compared to the suits that would start floating in over repetitive stress to the shoulder, neck and back, caused by the average office worker having a touchscreen

MS had to have known that: they aren’t pushing businesses to “go touch”. They were only concerned with forcing customers into the their App Store, and the only way they could do that was by removing the Start Menu: you don’t have to go into Metro if you have a Start Menu.

Oh...sorry. I didn’t mean to go off. I’m pretty pissed right now....lol

Anyway, the correct way to have pulled the Start Menu would have been to make it optional for Windows 8 and mandatory for Windows 9.


94 posted on 08/16/2013 11:17:10 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Thought Puzzle: Describe Islam without using the phrase "mental disorder" more than four times.)
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