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The Disaster Myth Narrative: No One Panics, No One Loots, No One Goes Hungry
SHTF Plan ^ | 9/10/13 | Daisy Luther

Posted on 09/10/2013 4:01:38 PM PDT by Kartographer

SHTFplan Editor’s Note: There will be no panic. The government will be there to help when everything around you falls apart. Those really smart people on TV said so. This is the 21st century, and we’re way past really bad things happening.

“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” ~ George Orwell

I was recently doing some research about the aftermath of some natural disasters that took place here in America. I was shocked to find that the articles I was looking for – ones that I had read in the past – were pretty hard to find, but articles refuting the sought-for pieces were rampant. Not just one event, but every single crisis aftermath that I looked up, had articles that were written after the fact stating in no uncertain terms that the hunger, chaos, and unrest never happened.

Apparently we, the preparedness community, are all wrong when it comes to the belief that after a disaster, chaos erupts and civic disorder is the rule of the day.

According to “experts” it never happens.

(Excerpt) Read more at shtfplan.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; History; Society
KEYWORDS: preparedness; preppers; shtf
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"Self-sufficiency means freedom. When you can feed yourself, clothe yourself, shelter yourself, and protect yourself, you are far less likely to need to cede your freedoms in order to stay alive. And in a police state that is frantically trying to withdraw our constitutional rights, this just won’t do. They need leverage."

You either prepare and stand on your own beholden to no one or you become dependent on others to provide your basic needs and become thier ‘serf’.

Me I don’t want to be beholden to anyone for providing what is needed for me and mine. I certainly don’t want to have to kiss some ‘gubberment’ third class bureaucratic's behind in an effort to get some help from them.

I certainly don’t want some ‘jack booted’ thug herding me in line and telling me where to stand, sit, eat or sleep.

And last but not least I don’t want to be shut up in with a bunch of ‘zombies’ and have to worry about not only trying to get basic necessities but having to fight to keep what I manage to get or becoming their 'punching bag' so they can see how much they can make me bleed.

1 posted on 09/10/2013 4:01:38 PM PDT by Kartographer
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To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Preppers’ PING!!


2 posted on 09/10/2013 4:02:05 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer
Alas, Brave New Babylon

(link to the Free Republic thread)


3 posted on 09/10/2013 4:05:07 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Kartographer

In the event of a SHTF event where I live, nothing bad is going to happen (to me) within about a three hundred yard radius.


4 posted on 09/10/2013 4:07:21 PM PDT by Hardastarboard (Buck Off, Bronco Bama)
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To: Kartographer

I don’t think anyone knows exactly what will happen and what the response will be to whatever it is.

Having said that, it is better to be prepared and not need it than to not be prepared and not have anything.


5 posted on 09/10/2013 4:08:15 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Kartographer

Sept 11 2001

People inside WTC/Pentagon did not panic, there was no pushing or shoving others out of the way

Injures/handicapped were assisted out of the buildings

Others ran in to help the Fire/rescue responders

Afterwards people came and donated all they could in terms of time and money


6 posted on 09/10/2013 4:11:28 PM PDT by njslim (St)
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To: yarddog; All

How do we get this across to our adult “froggy” children, who do not have the sense to hop out of the slowly warming pot?

I have been trying for years, and they think I am an old kookie, who sees monsters under my bed.

Don’t give a rat’s patootie about myself, but sure wish they would wake up. They refuse to look at the facts, saying they do not have the time - busy careers, kids in sports on the weekends, fantasy football, etc.

I think Alinski (sp?) has won. Makes an old mother cry.


7 posted on 09/10/2013 4:16:01 PM PDT by jacquej ("It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own." — Ma)
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To: Travis McGee

Hey, just thought i’d let you know that I read that. I really liked it until it got near the end. I found myself unconciously “skimming” in the “preaching” part, kinda like I did during John Galt’s speech in Atlas Shrugged. I was about to say something else, but it would be a spoiler.

But it was a very enjoyable read.


8 posted on 09/10/2013 4:16:54 PM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: jacquej

Read Revelation. God wins in the end. And it is just possible that it is fast approaching...


9 posted on 09/10/2013 4:17:43 PM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: njslim

You won’t see panic until people figure out that they are going hungry, with no solution in sight.

If people aren’t hungry, the propensity for panic is minor.


10 posted on 09/10/2013 4:19:59 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Kartographer

There’s a Great Storm coming you can feel it and the our great cities are on the edges of it now, soon it will consume them.

I posted an article by Selco just the other day called:Lessons In Urban Warfare: “People Will Die In Huge Numbers” [ http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3063901/posts ] and as I said in on that thread: Many think that Urban Warfare is something that could never happen in America and That anyone that believes it can wears a ‘tin foil’ hat. Well I have news for them pick up any news paper, read the news blogs or just look around you. Urban Warfare has already started here.

Its your choice you can prep or you can stand around on a bridge waiting for FEMA to bring you a bottle of water, a MRE, a warm blanket and a kiss for your boo-boo and maybe you can even get your picture as you stand there on the national news.

As I said any one with half a brain can look around and see for themselves what is happening right before their eyes.

So listen to what the bible says: A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it. NIV Proverbs 22:3

One of the things Selco covers in this article is the fact that many will not accept that a breakdown is occurring even as they watch it happening before their eyes. Why don’t they realize it? It’s caused by a condition called ‘Normalcy Bias’ a mental state people enter when facing a disaster.

It causes people to underestimate both the possibility of a disaster occurring and its possible effects. This often results in situations where people fail to adequately prepare for a disaster, and on a larger scale, the failure of governments to include the populace in its disaster preparations. The assumption that is made in the case of the normalcy bias is that since a disaster never has occurred then it never will occur. It also results in the inability of people to cope with a disaster once it occurs. People with a normalcy bias have difficulties reacting to something they have not experienced before. People also tend to interpret warnings in the most optimistic way possible, seizing on any ambiguities to infer a less serious situation.

A good article on ‘Normalcy Bias’ is on our own ChocChipCookies Blog The Survival Mom:

http://thesurvivalmom.com/2010/12/29/normalcy-bias/

You either prepare and stand on your own beholden to no one or you become dependent on others to provide your basic needs and become their ‘serf’. Me I don’t want to be beholden to anyone for providing what is needed for me and mine. I certainly don’t want to have to kiss some ‘gubberment’ third class bureaucratic to try and coax some help from them, I don’t want some ‘jack booted’ thug herding me in line and telling me where to stand, sit, eat or sleep. And last but not least I don’t want to be shut up in with a bunch of ‘zombies’ and have to worry about not only trying to get basic necessities but having to fight to keep what I manage to get.

There is a Great article in my Preparedness Manual on building your on Bug Out Bag titled: A Highly-Mobility 72 Hour Kit-by Ward Dorrity. You can download the whole manual at:

http://tomeaker.com/kart/Preparedness1j.pdf NOTE! THIS IS A FREE DOWNLOAD. I DO NOT MAKE ONE CENT OFF MY PREPAREDNESS MANUAL!

For those of you who haven’t started already it’s time to prepare almost past time maybe. You needed to be stocking up on food guns, ammo, basic household supplies like soap, papergoods, cleaning supplies, good sturdy clothes including extra socks, underwear and extra shoes and boots, cash (I myself have been putting up change for the past few years both for the metal content and the fact that using change places to make what purchases you can will move you down the the list of possible marks during shtf), tools, things you buy everyday start buying two and put one up.

As the LDS say “When the emergency is upon us the time for preparedness has past.”

Again I like to recomend FReeper’s ChocoChipCookie Blog The Survival Mom (Please Blog Police let this one slide!) Where you can get lots of useful information like:

http://thesurvivalmom.com/2011/11/20/8-morale-boosters-for-any-worst-case-scenario/

http://thesurvivalmom.com/2010/02/02/survival-priorities-the-rule-of-three/

And More

Also there is Ferfal’s Blog a survivor of Argentina’s first collapse:

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/

And there is Selco’s Blog a Bosnian War survivor at:

http://shtfschool.com/

“There is no greater disaster than to underestimate danger. Underestimation can be fatal.”


11 posted on 09/10/2013 4:23:23 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

Just some thoughts that come to mind.

1. Be as prepared as you can be.

2. Expect to be the one your family and friends coalesce around. You’ll have to be the calming force.

3. Keep what you have very low profile both from people who don’t need to know and from government. Dress down. Don’t brag or talk too much about what you’ve got.

4. A parallel economy will develop and the new reality will look like the third world, but people do survive in the third world. You just have to have what it takes to survive the transition, and skills to trade in the new parallel economy that is the real economy. Be prepared to build and defend the world you want to live in.

5. In the meantime, look up. Fortune favors the brave and determined.


12 posted on 09/10/2013 4:25:30 PM PDT by marron
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To: jacquej

I have the same problem.

My only living child is married with two children and is financially very well off. I have attempted to convince them to prepare for catastrophe but the only thing I have gotten through to them is to stock up on food if for no other reason than it is probably a good investment.

My parents could have gotten through just about anything. They both grew up under harsh conditions during the depression but they both died years ago at an old age.


13 posted on 09/10/2013 4:25:42 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Kartographer

These posts have a lot of good information but there is no one size fits all. Most is written for city folks which only applies to half the population and landmass. We all are different and will have to develop different methods. We will not be perfectly equipped for problems.


14 posted on 09/10/2013 4:28:29 PM PDT by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: jacquej

Saul Alinsky.

That is so sad.

However, the left has successfully propagandized at least three generations of children in our schools, colleges, and universities.

Undoing all that misinformation and teaching of some bizarre “History of the United States” propaganda that never happened is a nearly insurmountable task.


15 posted on 09/10/2013 4:36:23 PM PDT by TheOldLady
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To: Kartographer

George Hanson: You know, this used to be a helluva good country. I can’t understand what’s gone wrong with it.

Billy: Man, everybody got chicken, that’s what happened. Hey, we can’t even get into like, a second-rate hotel, I mean, a second-rate motel, you dig? They think we’re gonna cut their throat or somethin’. They’re scared, man.

George Hanson: They’re not scared of you. They’re scared of what you represent to ‘em.

Billy: Hey, man. All we represent to them, man, is somebody who needs a haircut.

George Hanson: Oh, no. What you represent to them is freedom.

Billy: What the hell is wrong with freedom? That’s what it’s all about.

George Hanson: Oh, yeah, that’s right. That’s what’s it’s all about, all right. But talkin’ about it and bein’ it, that’s two different things. I mean, it’s real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. Of course, don’t ever tell anybody that they’re not free, ‘cause then they’re gonna get real busy killin’ and maimin’ to prove to you that they are. Oh, yeah, they’re gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it’s gonna scare ‘em.

Billy: Well, it don’t make ‘em runnin’ scared.

George Hanson: No, it makes ‘em dangerous. Buh, neh! Neh! Neh! Neh! Swamp!


16 posted on 09/10/2013 4:43:27 PM PDT by Chuckster (The longer I live the less I care about what you think.)
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To: cuban leaf

I totally understand, and so do you. My goal with the first 2/3 of Alas was to create enough interest to cause the reader to climb up the tower with the narrator. Then it’s a classic (and intended) “bait and switch” over to the “why” or “message” part.

If I wrote a 3K word essay on “Why our civilization is failing and will crash,” nobody would read it. Hence the story. Thanks for reading it. The target audience is that group that would otherwise never, ever read that “why” message.


17 posted on 09/10/2013 4:46:05 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Southack
This will be our civilization, one day before our major cities are burning.

Alas, Brave New Babylon.

18 posted on 09/10/2013 4:47:35 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Hardastarboard

>>In the event of a SHTF event where I live, nothing bad is going to happen (to me) within about a three hundred yard radius.<<

Google “101 - Part 1 Introduction - Rex Reviews” with the quotation marks.


19 posted on 09/10/2013 5:02:45 PM PDT by B4Ranch (AGENDA: Grinding America Down ----- http://vimeo.com/63749370)
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To: Kartographer
I was recently doing some research about the aftermath of some natural disasters that took place here in America. I was shocked to find that the articles I was looking for – ones that I had read in the past – were pretty hard to find, but articles refuting the sought-for pieces were rampant. Not just one event, but every single crisis aftermath that I looked up, had articles that were written after the fact stating in no uncertain terms that the hunger, chaos, and unrest never happened.

When looking for copies of 1984 and Animal Farm to re-read, they seemed to be in short supply. Even Amazon had very few versions available and local bookstores had none. They are either being suppressed - or we are buying them up in droves. I hope it's the latter. I do know they are not taught in schools any longer. Mores the shame.
20 posted on 09/10/2013 5:28:37 PM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: jacquej

And old grandpas too, Jacque.


21 posted on 09/10/2013 5:48:38 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Hardastarboard

In the event of a SHTF event where I live, nothing bad is going to happen (to me) within about a three hundred yard radius.


You are either capable of staying up 24/7 or you have friends/family you completely trust that will be with you 24/7. I hope it’s the latter and best of luck to you.


22 posted on 09/10/2013 6:02:15 PM PDT by volunbeer (We must embrace austerity or austerity will embrace us)
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To: Kartographer

Our regime isn’t merely going to bumble in a disaster, they’re planning to confiscate food and all preparedness supplies. Executive orders give them total control.


23 posted on 09/10/2013 6:05:39 PM PDT by Missouri gal
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To: yorkiemom

I have read there has been a big surge of 1984 purchases due to the NSA domestic spying news.


24 posted on 09/10/2013 6:15:03 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Travis McGee

Varying stages, of course. If you look at videos of villagers in Africa looting an aid convoy, you’ll see one stage of the breakdown of society.

Free food, with people to hand it out, yet people still fight for it.

The madness of crowds is a documented phenomenon.

Now, when the violence becomes severe enough that soldiers and police abandon the aid convoys in order to be back home protecting their own families, then you get the next level.


25 posted on 09/10/2013 6:21:24 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: yarddog
My parents could have gotten through just about anything. They both grew up under harsh conditions during the depression but they both died years ago at an old age..

I have the same story line. But I would add that my parents could get through just about anything with the mutual support of neighbors, friends and relatives. My parent's generation knew the value of cooperation and community. They didn't need "community organizers".

26 posted on 09/10/2013 6:23:31 PM PDT by Senator_Blutarski
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To: yarddog

But you can bet if the government knows you are a prepper they might be coming to you to accuse you of being a “hoarder” in a disaster.

That is reason one not to tell anyone.


27 posted on 09/10/2013 6:32:42 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: Kartographer
Yes, how can we forget that when Katrina struck, the good citizens of New Orleans didn't turn to wild, indiscriminate lootng?
Other than taking a bottle of life-giving water, or baby formula for dying babies, they showed remarkable restraint and respect for property.

/s


28 posted on 09/10/2013 6:34:03 PM PDT by Iron Munro ("You bring me the man, I'll find you the crime" - Lavrentiy Beria [and Eric Holder])
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To: Travis McGee

I wonder just how food is grown in NYC?

lol


29 posted on 09/10/2013 6:38:26 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL

Mold and mildew?


30 posted on 09/10/2013 6:40:19 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Southack

I think our cities will go to about level nine in a week after no food.


31 posted on 09/10/2013 6:44:33 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: yorkiemom
"Not just one event, but every single crisis aftermath that I looked up, had articles that were written after the fact stating in no uncertain terms that the hunger, chaos, and unrest never happened."

There are many FReepers that think that there were none of these things either, just look at this thread.
32 posted on 09/10/2013 6:44:53 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Travis McGee

yuck


33 posted on 09/10/2013 6:45:26 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: Senator_Blutarski

It was a different world. My Mother grew up on a huge farm in the Florida panhandle. The fact that they were wealthy didn’t mean a thing. She was one of 12 children and the youngest Daughter.

The oldest two girls helped their Mother but the rest along with the boys worked in the fields. Mother really knew what hard work was about.

My Father’s family were very prominent citizens but had little money. He was one of nine children and often had to be the substitute Father as Granddaddy was always away serving in the legislature or teaching at normal school etc.

Anyway they both came out of the depression but really they would have had about the same life if the depression had never hit. The only difference being that Granddaddy would probably have been paid better.

One thing I simply can’t get over is how really brave and tough our combat veterans of WWII were. Just this afternoon I came across a picture of a bridge across the Roer River near Julich, (I think that was the name), Germany.

I did some internet searches on those two names and eventually came across a u tube 12 minute long video of the fighting around there. The film had been taken by the signal corps and those camera guys were right in the midst of it.

They first showed the Combat Engineers along with Infantry crossing the river in near dark conditions. There wasn’t a lot of opposition but one boat full of soldier capsized. Other boats managed to save most of them.

The Germans pretty much left them alone until they completed a treadway bridge then they opened up with artillery and machine guns. The little treadway bridge was destroyed over and over but they finally had gotten enough Infantry and Engineers across to clear the opposite shore.

Each time the bridge would be destroyed the engineers just went about their business picking up their wounded and just letting the dead lie on the bridge until they had time.

They then started a heavy ponton bridge only a few hundred yards away. By this time the engineers fighting with the infantry were recalled to work only on bridges and they were no longer getting fire except long range infantry.

The picture I have of Daddy and his engineer battalion shows the bridge completed. The far side of the river shows all buildings destroyed. There are two Sherman tanks crossing and still quite a few engineers checking the bridge over.

That was some really fierce fighting. The German POWs looked like they had seen Hell. Blank faces, 1000 mile stare etc.

During the part of the fighting where they were crossing the tread-way bridge under fire I think every one of them deserved a high medal.

I really think that generation had been toughened to the point that they just did their job, and kept going until they were killed or completed it.


34 posted on 09/10/2013 6:50:50 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Travis McGee

I think that we agree that over some short period of time the stores will be looted first, then the aid trucks, and then roving mobs and individual renegades will begin pillaging house to house.

In Rio today, the rich already refuse to drive Ferraris because they’d be instant crime targets. Extrapolating, anyone with the appearance of having access to food is going to get mobbed/mugged/raped/extorted.

I’m not certain how long that goes on. If it gets cold then there are going to be house fires, of course.

...but if a city runs out of food altogether at every level, do the looters stay and slug it out over nothing or do they rove outward?

Mobs are funny beasts with their own “intelligence.”

If they rove outward, do they go house to house across yards, or do they follow streets and highways?

Do foodless mobs remain together after their first night of sleep, or do they break up?

Do they keep a consistent direction or do they meander or backtrack any?


35 posted on 09/10/2013 6:53:42 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
They rove outward, in droves. This is the lesson grasshoppers teach us when they morph into flying warrior locusts after their population densities increase beyond the local carrying capacity.

As well as the lesson lemmings teach us, etc. Even if half of a city's population dies inside the city limits, millions will be strong enough to walk 100+ miles drinking ditch water, lusting for the food and water you are "hoarding."

"Trapping Feral Pigs and other Parables of Modern Life." (FR thread.)

36 posted on 09/10/2013 7:05:12 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: GeronL

Haven’t you heard about all the wonderful organic rooftop farms they have? Even raising free range chickens in Brooklyn.


37 posted on 09/10/2013 7:32:57 PM PDT by razorback-bert (I'm in shape. Round is a shape isn't it?)
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To: volunbeer
You are either capable of staying up 24/7

Good point. It's easy to forget that there are 24 hours in a day.

38 posted on 09/10/2013 7:35:17 PM PDT by Hardastarboard (Buck Off, Bronco Bama)
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To: Travis McGee

Sneaky. ;-)


39 posted on 09/10/2013 7:53:30 PM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cuban leaf

Anyone remember Sneaky Pete? He used to post here but got so fed up with the Rinos on here that he left and vowed to never come back.

If he had just waited a few months, FR got rid of those monitors and the forum is far better now.

Does anyone know where he posts now?


40 posted on 09/10/2013 7:57:45 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Chuckster

Easy Rider was a psychotic, liberal view of America. What dirty, smelly hippies like the ones portrayed by Hopper and Fonda represented to most Americans were dirty, smelly hippies who couldn’t earn a decent living. Hopper and Fonda sold heroin to make their stash. Even Truman Capote trashed the film on Johnny Carson basically saying the main characters were criminals.


41 posted on 09/10/2013 8:00:50 PM PDT by driftless2
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To: volunbeer
You are either capable of staying up 24/7 or you have friends/family you completely trust that will be with you 24/7. I hope it’s the latter and best of luck to you.

I think you need to think beyond one set of ears and eyes. Tripwire alarms are varied and useful. Some are lethal and some are silent. Motion sensors placed in different quadrants can also be a force multiplier. Couple sensors with LED spotlights and you add another layer of protection and set of eyes.

Some of us have thought this through and gamed it. The first rule is not to be easy. Have the raiders move onto the next target. The second rule is to be able to sleep comfortably even if other eyes are staying up and watching. The third rule is to live through it for another day.

There are very cheap and easy methods to provide layered defense and security before one has to make that "300 yard" shot. For under a thousand dollars I could make any retreat a very undesirable place to approach, while at the same time providing a very complete situational awareness.
42 posted on 09/10/2013 8:07:43 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media. No Blood For Ego!)
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To: razorback-bert

I am sure those can feed 10 million

lol


43 posted on 09/10/2013 8:30:55 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: jacquej

I have kind of the opposite problem. My dad thinks prepping is just an excuse for hoarding disorder. He spent years trying to convince me that canned food spoiled after a month!


44 posted on 09/10/2013 9:41:31 PM PDT by Ellendra ("Laws were most numerous when the Commonwealth was most corrupt." -Tacitus)
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To: Ellendra

Many canned foods last 3 years... officially and some long after the expiry date.


45 posted on 09/10/2013 9:43:13 PM PDT by GeronL
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To: GeronL

Try telling him that.


46 posted on 09/10/2013 9:50:23 PM PDT by Ellendra ("Laws were most numerous when the Commonwealth was most corrupt." -Tacitus)
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To: Ellendra; All

This is a comic tragedy...

My grandmother, from Rome, Georgia, was a child of the war between the states. (Please know I am older than dirt, and these are my memories of her intense desire to hoard, because of her memories).

She had canned food in her pantry that I knew enough not to eat, because it had been there for years, and looked a bit “bulgy” - she lectured me when I took too many “tissues” from the paper roll in the bathroom. I remember her today, when I use more than two little pieces to wipe the drips.

Trouble is, too many of us take so much for granted. Hoarding can be a problem, but canned food does not spoil after a month - maybe 10 years?

My late husband, Air Force reservist, had to open cans of food stored from WW2 in the very early 60s, and figure out how to serve it in the mess when the rations didn’t get there on time. When he told it, it was funny.

Now it seems like our future.

Good luck with your Dad, he must be a whole lot younger than me, or else he is unfortunate enough not to remember the rationing of WW2, when eggs were hard to get. My dad used to bring them into New York city from outlying farms, in his pockets, so he could give an egg to every pregnant woman he and his Navy buddies could find.

There is nothing new under the sun, except our propensity for forgetting the lessons of the past.

Time for me to get some sleep - good night to you, and kiss your dearest dad - he is right, fresh is best, but canned is better than not being able to get fresh.


47 posted on 09/10/2013 10:30:22 PM PDT by jacquej ("It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own." — Ma)
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To: Kartographer
There are many FReepers that think that there were none of these things either, just look at this thread.

Isn't that the normalcy bias - to deny reality? To be doing it so early in the game seems odd though.

Well, there are holocaust-deniers out there too.

For sanity's sake, I just need to avoid all of the above, now and especially THEN.
48 posted on 09/10/2013 10:59:59 PM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: PA Engineer
For under a thousand dollars I could make any retreat a very undesirable place to approach, while at the same time providing a very complete situational awareness.

Do you have sources for the tripwires and spotlights, and whatever else you recommend?
49 posted on 09/10/2013 11:01:02 PM PDT by yorkiemom
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To: yorkiemom
Are you OK with links and imagination? Assume you would break up your property into four quadrants. Then break each quadrant into four sectors. Wireless motion alarms can do this now out to 1000 feet.

The wireless alarms are for the outer quadrants. The sectors is a decision you would have to make. The outer should be silent to alert the retreat people. The inner is a loud noise with LED lights or something more powerful. If today, a noise alarm would be sufficient. WROL is something different. That would be you decision. Nevertheless, you would need to map (measure or step out) each sector into four zones.

Some links for you to start with:

There are many, but this is a quick google for your reference:

12 Gauge Security Control system

Twelve gauge comes in many loads:

Google and see what you think will fit your needs.

Here is something that can break your property into four zones:

Remote Alarm

Search Amazon for Mr. Beam spotlights in those zones. This is for when you may need to consider force.

Just a couple of things to get you started.

Please feel free to ask more questions after reviewing the material.

There are many questions you have to ask yourself about your situation.

In my case, I am remote on a ridge in the woods. I have blind spots that technology mitigates. I have worked with the world as it is today, to a world WROL.

LOL. Just recently this is how I saw my first badger in western pa. I followed it down my property after the first sensors were tripped.

I also have remote game cameras. There are bugs regarding the batteries. Just another chore to change them out on a monthly basis.

Hope this helps you to start.
50 posted on 09/10/2013 11:56:29 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media. No Blood For Ego!)
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