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Why Gold Would Be Useless in an Economic Apocalypse: Seriously, stick with the canned goods
The Atlantic ^ | 12/27/2013 | JORDAN WEISSMANND

Posted on 12/27/2013 5:44:30 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Since November, financial advisor David Marotta has been publishing a series of blog posts on how to manage your money in the event of a financial apocalypse—as in a world of hyperinflation, governmental collapse, and anarachic mobs. You know, the standard stuff of a doomsday prepper's fever dreams. While Marotta admits he has some fears about the direction of the country (the man's not an Obamacare fan, to say the least) most of it seems to be fairly tongue-in-cheek material aimed at talking potential clients down from investing in some of the crazy, survivalist scams advertised on conservative talk radio. (Sadly, The Washington Examiner seems to have missed the humor).

And the first scam on his agenda? Plowing all your money into gold, of course. Here's his biblically inflected explanation of why toting around a suitcase of gold come the end times—and at today's prices, a $1 million in gold coins would fit in a suitcase—would be a suboptimal strategy:

If there really is a collapse of the money supply it is difficult to believe that your briefcase of pretty coins will still have any purchasing power near $1 million. In the 1970s, Christian singer Larry Norman made popular the Apocalyptic song lyric, “A piece of bread could buy a bag of gold” based on Revelation 6:6. In The End, I’d rather not have bought as much gold as possible.


(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Society
KEYWORDS: apocalypse; cannedgoods; gold; preppers
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To: SeekAndFind

Gold may be great in the long, long, long term, BUT...

How long before society calms down enough to even think about civilized barter/trade after a SHTF scenario?

Gold isn’t even on my radar.


51 posted on 12/27/2013 6:27:49 AM PST by LadyBuck (...My other car is the Chevrolet Repair Courtesy Shuttle....)
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To: SeekAndFind

In the end times, ammo will be the new currency.
Most likely 12 gauge and .22


52 posted on 12/27/2013 6:28:15 AM PST by MNnice
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

That’s a damn good idea. Buy the big bottles and fill 20 0z. soda bottles. Good for barter.


53 posted on 12/27/2013 6:29:51 AM PST by baddog 219
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To: LadyBuck

In a collapse scenario I can see silver and gold quickly become THE barter item to have. All of these nuts who think it will be shoot to kill f everyone are wrong. I see no reason why reasonable humans will act more or less like civilized people AFTER the unprepared learn their lesson...


54 posted on 12/27/2013 6:30:13 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: JDoutrider
One of these days I'm going to have to find out how to roast green coffee beans!

I buy bulk Costa Rican Tres Rios, Magnolia. I roast my own.

http://www.coffeebeancorral.com/ has instructions on how to roast your own.

I've used everything from a cast iron skillet to an air pop-corn popper.

/johnny

55 posted on 12/27/2013 6:32:59 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: BCW

Selco wrote about such a family that had gold and silver in Sarajevo during the siege. a gang got wind of it and kidnapped the father and the son. I believed that the Son survived the father didn’t and neither did the gold.


56 posted on 12/27/2013 6:34:05 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: driftdiver

Yep, guns, ammo, metals and food.

Tried canning some hot wings I found on sale. They taste great.


57 posted on 12/27/2013 6:39:33 AM PST by DirtyPigpen (Semper Fi)
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To: cuban leaf

So you going out in the middle of shtf with your junk silver and trying to buy a can of beans is safer than someone laying low with their cans of beans?


58 posted on 12/27/2013 6:40:39 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: central_va

Read what Selco a real life shtf survivor has to say:

http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/a-survival-q-a-living-through-shtf-in-the-middle-of-a-war-zone_10252011

I will add this; Right now in a land of plenty there are people willing to fight and kill for a pair of sneakers or a big screen tv what do you think they would be will to do for a can of beans when they haven’t eaten in a week?


59 posted on 12/27/2013 6:47:16 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

There’s a Great Storm coming everyone is feeling it and its one of the reason everyone is on edge. Deep down the alarm bells are ring the nerves on on edge and the mind is unsettled.

Its your choice you can prep or you can stand around on a bridge waiting for FEMA to bring you a bottle of water, a MRE, a warm blanket and a kiss for your boo-boo and maybe you can even get your picture as you stand there on the national news.

Any one with half a brain can look around and see for themselves what is happening right before their eyes.

So listen to what the bible says: A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it. NIV Proverbs 22:3

One of the things Selco covers in this article is the fact that many will not accept that a breakdown is occurring even as they watch it happening before their eyes. Why don’t they realize it? It’s caused by a condition called ‘Normalcy Bias’ a mental state people enter when facing a disaster.

It causes people to underestimate both the possibility of a disaster occurring and its possible effects. This often results in situations where people fail to adequately prepare for a disaster, and on a larger scale, the failure of governments to include the populace in its disaster preparations. The assumption that is made in the case of the normalcy bias is that since a disaster never has occurred then it never will occur. It also results in the inability of people to cope with a disaster once it occurs. People with a normalcy bias have difficulties reacting to something they have not experienced before. People also tend to interpret warnings in the most optimistic way possible, seizing on any ambiguities to infer a less serious situation.

A good article on ‘Normalcy Bias’ is on our own ChocChipCookies Blog The Survival Mom:

http://thesurvivalmom.com/2010/12/29/normalcy-bias/

You either prepare and stand on your own beholden to no one or you become dependent on others to provide your basic needs and become their ‘serf’. Me I don’t want to be beholden to anyone for providing what is needed for me and mine. I certainly don’t want to have to kiss some ‘gubberment’ third class bureaucratic to try and coax some help from them, I don’t want some ‘jack booted’ thug herding me in line and telling me where to stand, sit, eat or sleep. And last but not least I don’t want to be shut up in with a bunch of ‘zombies’ and have to worry about not only trying to get basic necessities but having to fight to keep what I manage to get.

http://tomeaker.com/kart/Preparedness1j.pdf NOTE! THIS IS A FREE DOWNLOAD. I DO NOT MAKE ONE CENT OFF MY PREPAREDNESS MANUAL!

For those of you who haven’t started already it’s time to prepare almost past time maybe. You needed to be stocking up on food guns, ammo, basic household supplies like soap, papergoods, cleaning supplies, good sturdy clothes including extra socks, underwear and extra shoes and boots, cash (I myself have been putting up change for the past few years both for the metal content and the fact that using change to make what purchases you can will move you down the the list of possible marks during shtf), tools, things you buy everyday start buying two and put one up.

As the LDS say “When the emergency is upon us the time for preparedness has past.”

Again I like to recomend FReeper’s ChocoChipCookie Blog The Survival Mom (Please Blog Police let this one slide!) Where you can get lots of useful information like:

http://thesurvivalmom.com/2011/11/20/8-morale-boosters-for-any-worst-case-scenario/

http://thesurvivalmom.com/2010/02/02/survival-priorities-the-rule-of-three/

And More

Also there is Ferfal’s Blog a survivor of Argentina’s first collapse:

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/

And there is Selco’s Blog a Bosnian War survivor at:

http://shtfschool.com/

“There is no greater disaster than to underestimate danger. Underestimation can be fatal.”


60 posted on 12/27/2013 6:49:57 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: silverleaf

Yes, if you want to think this through you have to balance between “holding the fort” and “hunter/gatherer”. In real life some semblance of both would likely work best. A small enough bag of dimes to easily carry. Some ammo belts, with a variety of weapons. Canned goods for the home stand. Jerky and water purification for life on the run. Rope and a good knife for either scenario.


61 posted on 12/27/2013 6:52:02 AM PST by jdsteel (Give me freedom, not more government.)
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To: central_va; cuban leaf; silverleaf

On Buying Gold & Silver for Survival Preparedness

http://shtfschool.com/trading/on-buying-gold-silver-for-survival-preparedness/


62 posted on 12/27/2013 6:55:20 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: SeekAndFind

Canned good and shotguns.


63 posted on 12/27/2013 6:56:04 AM PST by Yorlik803 ( Church/Caboose in 2016)
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To: Daveinyork

Don’t forget medicine, vitamins, and comfort items, such as TP. A roll of TP will be worth a fortune in the apocalypse. Lol.


64 posted on 12/27/2013 6:56:05 AM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededicaton to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution...)
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To: Kartographer

I have posted this several times on these SHTF articles, but I can tell you from personal experience that you have 3 days. When Sandy hit, the grid went down and there was no gas to be found in northern Jersey. Things got out of hand quickly. Christie was smart and made sure Newark and the surrounding areas got power right away. That kept the zombies at bay. Where I am is solid conservative country and people were going nuts. They were pulling guns at gas station and there were huge lines at a pizza and bagel store that had owners smart enough to run their business on a generator. We were okay because of two things. 1- a wood burning stove. Hot water, cook top, and kept the house warm. 2- I happened to read a post by a Florida FReeper that suggested getting gas the night before the storm hit. I said what the heck and took ten minutes to fill up both cars. I almost didn’t. A day later there were 3 hour lines to get 5 dollars worth of gas. Because I had a full tank I could make it to Pa. and get supplies and top off the tank. I have been in deep prep mode since then.


65 posted on 12/27/2013 6:57:00 AM PST by MattinNJ (It's over Johnny. The America you knew is gone. Denial serves no purpose.)
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To: Kartographer

So you going out in the middle of shtf with your junk silver and trying to buy a can of beans is safer than someone laying low with their cans of beans?


You’re over thinking it. I have both. They are both tools, like hammers and screwdrivers. Different tools for different jobs.


66 posted on 12/27/2013 6:59:01 AM PST by cuban leaf
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To: MrB
"Gold is for preserving wealth until the recovery"

That is spot on!!!, I have no idea why people can't understand that. Gold is for reestablishing your self once the crisis/event/zombie attack is over.

67 posted on 12/27/2013 6:59:37 AM PST by 2001convSVT (Going Galt as fast as I can.)
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To: cuban leaf

That could be said of any material:”Just how much food, guns, ammo could you have or use before...”


68 posted on 12/27/2013 7:02:42 AM PST by CodeToad (When ignorance rules a person's decision they are resorting to superstition.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Big ticket items like surgery aren’t going to be paid with canned goods.


69 posted on 12/27/2013 7:04:07 AM PST by CodeToad (When ignorance rules a person's decision they are resorting to superstition.)
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To: Kartographer
Only an idiot would think that
  1. my gold and silver is/are not hidden, laying out in the open begging to be stolen
  2. I would carry all of it on me
  3. that my clan would be unarmed.
Geez neolithic people figured out barter 10,000 years ago, I think we'll get the hang of it
70 posted on 12/27/2013 7:04:29 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Kartographer

Bablefish?


71 posted on 12/27/2013 7:06:25 AM PST by cuban leaf
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To: Kartographer

Sure, but I can name a guy from that period that keep his wealth in gold, used it to come here and lives well. No single story should ever be held as definitive.


72 posted on 12/27/2013 7:07:06 AM PST by CodeToad (When ignorance rules a person's decision they are resorting to superstition.)
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To: Yorlik803

beans and bullets- a bit simplistic

be sure to add big body bags and bleach to your siege supplies of beans and bullets

you’ll have to do something about the dead rotting bodies of the men women and children you kill. I assume when you shoot looters with children you will also shoot the children, and that you have thought this through

Bodies piled up on your lawn and outside your doors and windows will be a health hazard to you. Since we are talking months, maybe years here

The dead bodies of those you shoot will also show looters with guns (who will form mobs) the homes that have something inside worth killing for


73 posted on 12/27/2013 7:08:16 AM PST by silverleaf (Age takes a toll: Please have exact change)
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To: CodeToad

Exactly.

If we actually end up in a SHTF scenario, with government basically helpless, all bets are off. I don’t expect it to go that way, though. I don’t see that scenario in bible prophesy. I see the opposite. e.g. the mark of the beast type stuff. I see hyper-inflation in our future. Hence the precious metals.


74 posted on 12/27/2013 7:09:02 AM PST by cuban leaf
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To: MrB; cuban leaf

Better yet, grain alcohol in pt. bottles. 190 proof can be diluted two or three to one with water or fruit juices.


75 posted on 12/27/2013 7:09:10 AM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners. And to the NSA trolls, FU)
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To: central_va

Well all I can do is base my judgement on my own experiences and those of others who have actually lived through real life shtf events. to me their experiences alone are worth more than gold or silver.


76 posted on 12/27/2013 7:09:45 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: SeekAndFind
In a sudden total worldwide collapse he is correct. Gold will be just a soft heavy metal with limited value.

And silver will be only slightly more useful.

Paper cash will be somewhere between silver and gold. Tough paper rag has several usages.

But... a sudden total worldwide collapse is not very likely. Unless you count the Toba eruption one has never happened when humans were around.

Local and partial collapse is much more likely. And that is where having gold, silver and paper money is useful.

Should you put everything you have in gold? No.

Should it be part of your plan? Your choice but probably.

Will it be worth as much after as before? Probably not so don't go overboard.

77 posted on 12/27/2013 7:11:56 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: MattinNJ

Sandy was very instructive for many people. Fortunately, my relatives all followed my advice. They loaded up on canned food and water. They also quickly discovered something I did not think much about during the two weeks they had no power — cash is king. They each went to the ATM and withdrew a couple of grand each and topped off their cars and filled gas cans. When the power went off, some stores and restaurants restored power within a few days. These stores took only cash because the ATMs were down. My parents were able to buy some items because of this. My uncle and dad had portable generators. They would host parties with their neighbors. They providing the power, the neighbors providing the food. A short time barter arrangement. Some neighbors had “connections” and were able to get gas where none could be obtained normally.
All in all, my relatives were doing better than most during Sandy. Sandy was a short term inconvenience for them, but it was a deathly/near deathly experience for many.


78 posted on 12/27/2013 7:12:04 AM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededicaton to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution...)
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To: MrB; cuban leaf

Better yet, grain alcohol in pt. bottles. 190 proof can be diluted two or three to one with water or fruit juices.


79 posted on 12/27/2013 7:12:25 AM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners. And to the NSA trolls, FU)
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To: SeekAndFind

Word is the Japanese discovered this in WWII. Good don’t mean squat if there’s nothing to buy with it.


80 posted on 12/27/2013 7:14:29 AM PST by ctdonath2 (Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless.)
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To: JDoutrider; JRandomFreeper
One of these days I'm going to have to find out how to roast green coffee beans!

I'd bet dollars to donuts that 'JRandomFreeper' would have info on how to do it right. He's just that kind of guy.

81 posted on 12/27/2013 7:15:37 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ("Gun horror is not a productive emotion, but learned helplessness disguised as moral superiority.")
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To: CodeToad

I bet he got out early and quick. So if we are talking number of stories, let me ask how many stories do you think there of people who got out compared to the numbers that didn’t? And how many stories do you think we will never hear of people who traded their gold for a way out and merely ended up with a bullet to the back of the head, because people that arrange such things are such honest people.


82 posted on 12/27/2013 7:17:43 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: SeekAndFind

Based on his article history, this writer may only be a dupe and not a banker shill. On the other hand, he may have needed money for the holidays.


83 posted on 12/27/2013 7:18:13 AM PST by Stentor
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To: Kartographer

84 posted on 12/27/2013 7:18:13 AM PST by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
See #55. ;)

/johnny

85 posted on 12/27/2013 7:19:04 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: MrB
if you have any wealth left to preserve

Aye. Therein lies the rub.

I am in no position to convert dollars to gold at this time. But if things fall apart as I see it coming, the dollars will be useless and anything not in your hands will evaporate. I hope we have a period of deflation before the dollar loses its reserve status. Then cash will be king and conversion would be feasible. For a very short time.

86 posted on 12/27/2013 7:19:36 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ("Gun horror is not a productive emotion, but learned helplessness disguised as moral superiority.")
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To: cuban leaf

Bablefish? oooookaaaayy...


87 posted on 12/27/2013 7:21:08 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: silverleaf; cuban leaf; Yorlik803; Kartographer
"be sure to add big body bags and bleach to your siege supplies of beans and bullets"

God forbid! However, making it real: Backhoe and plenty of lime. No body bags needed. Also... make sure your trench is deep and below your well water supply.

88 posted on 12/27/2013 7:21:24 AM PST by JDoutrider
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To: JRandomFreeper
Well, dang. I'd read way past there by the time I posted.

These Prepper threads are always so active and chock full 'o' goodness.     =;^)

89 posted on 12/27/2013 7:22:09 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ("Gun horror is not a productive emotion, but learned helplessness disguised as moral superiority.")
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Cash will not be useless in the beginnings of the collapse,
and perhaps not worthless later either.

Greenbacks will be worth a lot more than entries in an electronic ledger, to be sure.


90 posted on 12/27/2013 7:23:45 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: JDoutrider

Some have suggested swine food. Not me, but just saying.


91 posted on 12/27/2013 7:24:29 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: SeekAndFind
There are several means of creating compact, transportable “wealth” that could be considered, but the sort of scenarios most are envisioning would likely not reward them anytime soon, years at best. A safe place to live through such a thing would be first and foremost, and safety extends to community. Who surrounds you would be very important. Then would come the means of feeding yourselves and acquiring water. Then defending yourselves. Then preserving wealth.

That to me would mean following the Mormon example of stocking enough food to last a year for your family or group. Nonperishable, dried, canned, not dependent upon power supply for storage. The land and the ability/knowledge to replenish these stores by growing more, sounds easy to people who've never done it but I can assure you that subsistence farming is a tough row to hoe, it's often living hand to mouth at the mercy of weather and critters, so don't think it's going to be idyllic. It's hard for people who do it all the time, newbies will fail quite frequently.

Carefully consider where you would be living, the neighbors, the community, the legal authorities with jurisdiction over it. That will matter more than you can imagine if and when the going gets really rough.

Defense, hope you never need it, have a lot of others willing to defend themselves and their properties without turning on you, between you and anyone who might think to come pillaging or foraging. You're circling the wagons and don't want to be outside of it, you don't really want to be on the perimeter.

Wealth? Who will be able to think of such a thing? Not many. If you're determined, know that unmarked gold that is not a known quantity will be suspect. Very few would be able to even distinguish let alone do an assay. Pre-64 silver coins have an advantage in portability and being a known quantity. Jews fleeing ahead of Nazi tyranny sewed diamonds into the linings of coats. Art was greatly prized.

Gold would be a decent thing to hold but I wouldn't depend too heavily upon it. Diversify, look at stores of wealth that are not so obvious. Fine craftsmanship will always be prized, from wine to antiques to art, as well as lesser things.

92 posted on 12/27/2013 7:24:55 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: SeekAndFind; All

White & brown sugars, beer, whiskey, yeast, wheat,barley, ect for trade, plus info & maybe books, or at least printed out info


93 posted on 12/27/2013 7:25:56 AM PST by TMSuchman (John 15;13 & Exodus 21:22-25 Pacem Bello Pastoribus Canes [shepard of peace,dogs of war])
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To: SeekAndFind

Gold and even rough diamonds are good for keeping wealth for restoration at some point because of high value and easy concealment, durability and transportability. Silver coins (easily recognizable as real silver) are great for bartering.

If you need a 5 gal bottle of water, the vendor is unlikely to have change for 1 oz of gold... and the oz of gold might also tempt the vendor to simply relieve you of it with no change, no product and maybe no life either.

As for bullets? No point in having anything else without the former. Knowledge of making arms and ammo is also essential... from basic, to complex.


94 posted on 12/27/2013 7:30:34 AM PST by Ex-Pat in Mex
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To: RegulatorCountry
sounds easy to people who've never done it but I can assure you that subsistence farming is a tough row to hoe, it's often living hand to mouth at the mercy of weather and critters,

This bears repeating. I've gardened for years, and even with my experience, 2013 turned out to be a crappy year for my tomatoes and peppers. Where normally I would have 20 jars of peppers canned, and twice that in tomatoes, I have nada.

2013... the year without salsa. It sucks.

/johnny

95 posted on 12/27/2013 7:30:39 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Kartographer

There will be those holding large amounts of land, defensible, with good water, livestock and wildlife, and as many hard but reliable men as it takes to keep the place.

For someone like that gold would be greatly useful to buy goods in town, to buy more land or animals, to bribe whoever you needed to bribe, and even to pay his men.

But I agree with you: the more gold you have the more good men you will need to hang on to it.


96 posted on 12/27/2013 7:34:45 AM PST by Fightin Whitey
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To: BinaryBoy

With enough toilet paper, you could rule the world!


At least half of it....


97 posted on 12/27/2013 7:35:03 AM PST by S.O.S121.500 (Case back hoe for sale or trade for diesel wood chipper....Enforce the Bill of Rights. It's the Law!)
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To: central_va

You must know alot more reasonable people than I do.

Other than a semi-local FReeper and a few preppers to the west of me, there isn’t anyone close I could count on to be reasonable in a collapse or post-collapse (this includes local relatives).


98 posted on 12/27/2013 7:35:08 AM PST by LadyBuck (....and we're off to the rodeo......)
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To: TMSuchman

Coffee, tobacco, refillable lighters; matches; medicines; medical supplies; soap and sanitary goods. A person with a reliable means to provide electric for rehanging things could depending on the event barter as well as being able to make large volumes of clean safe drinking water would be another barter item. A long down the road barter item would if you have a good stable long term power set-up might be 3D printers. The ability to make spare parts would certainly become a way to make a living in a long term grid down situation.


99 posted on 12/27/2013 7:35:29 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: MrB; JRandomFreeper
I guess it’s not too hard to roast coffee beans, even over an open fire. The problem that I see is that the smell would travel far and wide...

JR responded with that website, but I couldn't find any specifics on there. Sure would like one of their roasters they have$$$!

Going to have to ask JR about his cast iron skillet method.

Not worried about the smell, closest neighbor is over a mile away...

100 posted on 12/27/2013 7:35:42 AM PST by JDoutrider
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