Posted on 01/26/2014 7:02:55 PM PST by jimjohn
And so like everyone else, I am staring to see the pictures/videos oozing out of the streets on the Ukraine, but forgive me for being totally confused about what the battles are about. Clearly, there are folks really upset about something, but I simply can’t believe the reasons that are given. Let me explain…
Word I’m getting from western media sources is that all this hub-bub is about the Russian- backed Ukrainian president Whats-his-name refusing to sign a trade deal with the EU, and for that reason, folks are in the streets in sub-freezing temps in protests; protests that have now turned violent. Mind you, I am not taking sides in the affair. My initial interest was only to learned what tactics are being used by the folks not wearing government gear since similar tactics would be in play here if the ATM machines stopped working or worse – the satellite networks out of Denver suddenly went offline. When passing through and un-named coffee shop (wife’s addiction), I glanced at the front page of a well known national news rag – a staple in said coffee shop - that in my opinion lacks any credibility whatsoever (last name rhymes with…’rhymes’). Hence, I didn't bother reading the state-sponsored propaganda within. But there has to be something more than a government executive not-signing something that gets that many folks so ticked off. It doesn't make sense. Here are some observations I've made just from the reports, photos and videos behind the barricades: • The lights are still on in the background. • People are still working. Word has it the fights are downtown, but the ready of the city(s) are operating as normal. • Folks raising cash for rocks Molotov cocktails, and a few fireworks. So the money must still be worth …something? • With the low body-count so far, the cops seems unwilling to use force – yet. So, can someone give me the real story? Have the banks all closed? Accounts wiped out? Marshall law? Has the place suddenly gone Jihad? Are they just trying to get attention with the Olympics about to start? Again, not taking sides, but it seems that folks that are willing to freeze outside to assault government positions wouldn't be the types that would want to join a larger government institution that will assure their currency to be devalued, and decisions being made by foreigners far away. And I am positive that any group of people really fighting for their own freedom wouldn't get any accurate (read: fair) reports from the West. So, I’m throwing it out there. Other than what’s going on ‘on the ground’, what’s really going on at your average Ukrainian kitchen table/watering hole? Anyone?
I was wondering the same thing...found this pretty good summary: http://www.businessinsider.com/understanding-euromaidan-2014-1
Ukrainians hate Russians, like you don’t know what. The present Ukrainian government is cozying up to the Russians in a big way against the will of the people.
The left wing Ukrainian government responded in the only way they know: Force. They didn’t just stifle protest against the government, they made it a crime.
Basically, it’s Dr. Zhivago in reverse. Go watch the movie backwards. Explains everything.
What’s going on in Ukraine is the president withdrew his support for the EU at the last minute and has been aligning with Putin and Moscow. The people feel betrayed, they want closer ties with European countries and the EU and resent being drawn back into the Russian fold.
Not our problem.
I was on the blog about Chernobyl and she was really upset that Obama did not care about the people’s fight. She is the one who rides her motorcycle to get where cars can not go. If you have not been there, go. I think her blog has changed to kidofspeed but just type in Chernonyl blog. It is amazing to see pictures of the military equipment that had to be destroyed, of the countryside, of a whole town turned into a ghost town, etc.
Ukraine is a divided country. The eastern half speaks Russian, the western half speaks Ukrainian. The eastern half has good employment (though relatively low pay) in industrial manufacturing, many of the factories partnered up with Russian firms just across the border.
Unfortunately, this doesn’t extend to western Ukraine, where corrupt bureaucracy and poor management has led to an economy in ruins.
The EU wishes to reign in as many countries as possible to keep itself afloat (larger currency base), so offered an economic trade deal to Ukraine.
Russia in response countered with an offer of massive loans to avert a default by the Ukrainian government, as well as better natural gas supplies for the years ahead. The president took the deal, which the EU was unable to compete with.
The problem is the protesters in the street want to integrate with the EU, and think any deal offered by Russia is not going to benefit western Ukraine in any tangible way, and they also see the specter of the former Soviet Union dominating their politics. They see the president as a puppet of Putin. So they are protesting violently in the streets and ordering him to step down.
There does seem to be some breakdown of order in the opposition between the leadership which is negotiating with the president, and the people in the street who think that by integrating with the EU, they will see the same prosperity as Poland or the Baltic States. (I’d advise them to look at Greece or Spain first).
This is an example of very desperate people with little faith in the future of their country, but like I say, Ukraine is a nation divided into east and west.
Some here have speculated that George Soros is involved since this is his modus operandi. I’m not so sure.
The whole of Europe is one giant clusterf8ck. The unemployment rate in Spain and Italy are sitting at all time highs and France’s economy is dying.
Steer clear of the dead continent.
By the way, Ukraine has a centrist government, so there’s not really an ideological battle to be had here. It’s more a geographical conflict.
Not all Ukrainians hate the Russians. In the western part, you’d probably find more of that compared to the eastern part. For the most part the police response has been mild even when bombarded by Molotov cocktails. There are videos of the Berkut hammering protestors. The stones are from the streets that are being torn up. It’s a changing situation. The protests are throughout much of the county now. But not as intense as in Kiev.
Some do. Most just see a corrupt system, and envy what they see in Western Europe, as much as we don't particularly care for the EU.
Quick-
It’s the US inflaming another country on a Russian boarder to provoke a War. Zero Hedge a day or two ago had a great picture of the US embassy surrounded by Ukraine protesters telling the US to get out of their country, and conflict. Hey it’s their country, I agree, bring Skelator (AKA: John McCain) home.
Skim through Zero Hedge for the last 3 to 5 days and you will get the just of what is going on, from papers around the world as well from us hedgers that live around the world.
Flame away, to the freepers that don’t look beyond their toes.
Most of the racial hatred part comes from the Football Hooligan types.
Good link, thanks.
Good summary. But let’s not allow our own prejudices against the EU cloud our view of what’s going on in Kiev. There are advantages for underdeveloped countries to join the EU. D’uh, and do your own research if you don’t know. There are advantages for the unemployed workforce, and this I will tell you - 2 million Poles, many well educated, left their native land to wash pots and pans in London pubs. A EU citizen can live and work anywhere in EU, enough for your cheating heart?
Wrong, only half of them hate the Russians.
Well, this is a very good point that others have raised.
A lot of the protesters may actually not want to be in Ukraine or have anything to do with it at all. Integration with Europe gives them a free pass to go to the UK where they can get paid much more than they did back home.
Latvia has seen this problem. Its population shrunk by a whopping 13% in a decade. That’s a demographic disaster waiting to happen.
That’s my dilemma, in the instead of flight from cities as in this country, we are talking about flight from entire countries.
As much as I detested the Berlin Wall, I can kind of understand why the GDR built it, the country would have been emptied of its’ brightest people within a matter of years....Of course, a better approach would have been to enact policies that encouraged people to stay.
The latest news from Kiev is that the protesters have taken over the Department of Justice building. Feeling envious?
You can bet it will be.
“If you’re not a part of the solution, there’s good money to be made in prolonging the problem.”
We Are All Ukrainians, Now. (I wish)
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