Posted on 12/05/2014 10:50:12 AM PST by dennisw
Eric Garner was a well known pest who had been selling illegal untaxed loose cigarettes right in front of retail businesses that sold legal tax stamped cigarettes and been arrested for selling such untaxed cigarettes many times. He had previously been arrested on many occasions not for selling loosies but for selling smuggled, untaxed cigarettes.Police came to arrest Garner due to local business owners complaints. In fact he had been arrested by the same officer previously but did not resist. Garner recognized this officer. This time he put up resistance and the smaller police officers had to swarm him to take him down and into custody.
Garner did not die from some mythical choke hold. When in a choke hold you are unable to speak. But Garner did speak saying "I can't breathe" a few times. But the police ignored his protestations. Why? Because they knew that they were not stopping his breathing. However the police thought he was trying to fake them out, to get free again. Why? Because he had been resisting them.
The officers did not understand that Garner was suffering from an asthma attack which was what he really died from. So I see mistakes by Garner here who knew he had serious asthma problems partly from his obesity and bad physical condition but chose to resist arrest. Then the police were also to blame for not understanding that Garner was a serious asthmatic and that his protestations were for real. I would not punish these police for this miscalculation.
Once again. Garner died from an asthma attack. In my book a self induced one. Not from a choke hold.
All I’ve seen is part of the video. I’ve not looked into how long the entire situation was; I assume that one officer stopped him, and when he appeared to not be interested in complying with commands, back up was summoned and a while after that, the events in the video happened.
I think officers arrived with the concept that this was going to be a resisting man, and that was exactly how it played out.
To me, that was the use of excessive force. I have no problem with officers taking down someone who is a danger to themselves or others, but the officer knew who he was dealing with, likely knew exactly where they lived; probably even knew who his probation officer was as well.
I do not see how that couldn’t have been talked out and the suspect’s compliance gained. Which is probably why I’d be an awful police officer in today’s climate.
Things need to change in how officers interact with the public. And I honestly don’t think it will ever happen until there is an actual fear that what happens on the street will be examined in a criminal court room. Right now, the way it appears to me, no officer need consider that. You need to, I need to, all citizens do, but for some reason, officers have magical powers that makes them immune to any criminal consequence except under the most egregious of situations.
If that isn’t a recipe for abuse and mistrust, I don’t know what is.
..who needed to be exterminated?
Since when does being a pest or selling un-taxed cigarettes constitute a capital crime? Don't be so eager to defend the police who lie, cheat, steal, and kill just as much as the general public does.
Probably but "ain't nobody got time fo dat"
Did you read the autopsies before writing this? Your article is almost pure BS.
From the Hannity show:
Dr Michael Baden, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, first of all, I agree with you that it’s silly to go after somebody for selling single cigarettes —
HANNITY: It’s stupid!
BADEN: — in a community to people who can’t afford to buy —
HANNITY: A full pack.
BADEN: — a whole pack of cigarettes.
HANNITY: Six dollars in taxes for one pack in New York City!
BADEN: But I think the autopsy itself — the medical examiner did a great job on this. There’s 27 pages in the report. And the female (ph), she found that there were 10 hemorrhages on the inside of the neck, in the muscles of the neck, petechial hemorrhages in the eye, hemorrhage in the tongue. And those are all evidence of neck compression. You’re right, chokehold has many different meanings in all. What we’re concerned at autopsy is was there pressure on the neck.
HANNITY: Right.
BADEN: There was pressure on the neck and pressure on the chest.
HANNITY: I don’t doubt it. This is a big guy.
BADEN: Pressure on the chest that interferes with the lungs expanding and —
HANNITY: But they also —
(CROSSTALK)
BADEN: And hands on the face and nose. So he couldn’t breathe, and he was telling the truth.
HANNITY: But he was still talking does. That impact his ability to talk, if he can’t breathe?
BADEN: Yes, no, you can say, I can’t breathe.
HANNITY: You can.
BADEN: Absolutely.”
So: she found that there were 10 hemorrhages on the inside of the neck, in the muscles of the neck, petechial hemorrhages in the eye, hemorrhage in the tongue. And those are all evidence of neck compression.
So he couldn’t breathe, and he was telling the truth.
HANNITY: But he was still talking does. That impact his ability to talk, if he can’t breathe?
BADEN: Yes, no, you can say, I can’t breathe.
The cop is guilty of at least manslaughter.
That isn't accurate. There are two main chokes: air and blood.
It happens all the time that a person can talk and then pass out from a blood choke, ie rear naked choke. You aren't blocking the airway.
But, to the main point of death. The police and all surrounding personnel are at fault for neglect once the citizen was subdued and incarcerated.
At that point, the citizen is incapacitated and his physical well being as at the hand of .gov. And that is a bad place to be.
I recall several deaths by taser by the NYPD. They've become controversial. This is the first "submission hold" death that I recall.
Posting a picture of a cop using a chokehold won’t deter those who are bound and determined to deny that the same cop was using a chokehold in that picture. The most recent invention of these people is to call the chokehold a ‘seat belt manuever’ and if you search Google prior to last week you’ll see that this is just an invention of these jack boot lickers.
I’m not saying Garner was an upstanding citizen or that he didn’t have a criminal record. I’m saying that selling untaxed cigarettes doesn’t rate a summary execution on a sidewalk.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t
He would be guilty of at least manslaughter if it was a fight in a bar. In this case he was hired by the tax payers to enforce laws and take criminals into custody.
For him to be guilty of at least manslaughter he has to break the law first.
....”Then the police were also to blame for not understanding that Garner was a serious asthmatic”....
No they weren’t...since when do we need officers to “understand” someone resisting arrest who is telling them to “leave me alone” before they attempted to arrest him.
This guy was already on his own self destructive track...in is behavior toward police, repeating his crimes believing he was entitled to break the law.
I support the police in how they handled him...
Thanks for correcting this ‘vanity.’ Saved me the trouble.
Story out today the prosecutor didn’t even tell the grand jury they could have returned a reckless endangerment charge if not negligent homicide.
Five cops there. Non-violent situation. He’s on the ground and can’t breathe. This was a little extra punishment (like cops locking handcuffs on so tight they hurt and/or cut off circulation) after he’s subdued.
The ‘police can do no wrong’ crowd have weakened their legitimacy here.
Agreed.
I don't see the "resistance" in the video until after the chokehold.
I don't see the "had to" in the video. I can think of half a dozen options to grabbing him by the neck from behind.
Six of one, a half dozen of the other.
The officer in charge received immunity? Lovely.
This sh*t has gotta stop.
That’s what I thought.
I believe a serious asthma attack can induce cardiac arrest. I say this from being an asthmatic from earliest childhood onto the end of my WWII army service in WWII which included infantry assigned service in the Philippines. All in all an interesting story. In my youth I spent days and even weeks under doctors and hospital care looking for causes and reliefs from asthma. This all might seem made up but I lived through it and have first hand experience as to living in and out of an asthmatic life with it’s dangers. I remember so clearly a statement/advice given to me as a young teenager working at a store. The owner’s wife once said to me that though her husband (my boss) had severe asthma she believed I would/could overcome mine. She was right. I am now in my late 80s and have had a very busy professional engineering livelihood. To get back to the case at hand, I believe with/by all the previous law encounters the police should have had background info on Garner’s health condition so as to take such into account. Garner in turn should never had continued setting himself up for police encounters knowing his own condition even though such was a on and off condition. My judgment, ‘a societal, political, legal draw with no charges against officers involved’.
“Then the police were also to blame for not understanding that Garner was a serious asthmatic and that his protestations were for real.”
How would the police be blamed if they had no knowledge he was an asthmatic?
Lol...I knew what happened. Could not resist.
The Sargent was black, the perp was black. They communicated telepathically and she determined that hitting him with a taser would have induced cardiac arrest. /s
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