Posted on 07/07/2015 8:02:37 AM PDT by C19fan
The aerial dogfight was not supposed to happen. On May 20, 1967, eight U.S. Air Force F-4C fighters were patrolling over North Vietnam when they spotted as many as 15 enemy MiG-17 fighters a short distance away.
Fog and the MiGs’ low altitude had prevented the F-4s from detecting the North Vietnamese jets from farther away.
(Excerpt) Read more at medium.com ...
With all the CAD/CAM VR simulation packages as to customer experience (automotive anyway), no one thought to check the F-35's helmet package (I'll assume it is a data suite) against the shape of the Canopy and the fit/stackup? Are you freakin kidding me! Talk about design errors!
The photo with the F-35 and F-16 is taken at Eglin. Looks like what used to be the Eglin officers beach club in the background. Got my first sun burn in the AF there as a 2/Lt. I also remember very wild parties there with an albino blues singer with a signature song of “Hot Nuts, Hot Nuts, you get them from the peanut man.
Think A-10. cheap and effective ground support solution.
If they put a PT belt on it, no one could shoot it down.
Missiles like the latest Sidewinder and the AMRAAM are much better than those used in Vietnam, making the tactics of the Phantom era more effective, but there will always be a need for dogfighters, especially when the bad guys have stealth and countermeasures to negate the advances in missile and radar technology.
Not every one was surprised by the Zero; Clare Chennault and his Flying Tigers realized their P-40s were no match for the A6M in a turning fight, so they developed tactics that emphasized the Warhawk’s speed and durability; climb high, attack out of the sun (if possible) disengage and re-attack only if conditions were favorable.
Same thing with LCDR Jim Thach, creator of the beam defense maneuver that bears his name. Three months before Pearl Harbor, Thach read a fleet intel bulletin that highlighted the outstanding climb and maneuverability of the Zero. Rather than dismissing it as bunk (as many fighter pilots did), Thach began working on tactics that would give his F4F Wildcat pilots a fighting chance.
As in other example throughout history, the intel was there; unfortunately, a lot of commanders and pilots ignored it and paid with their lives.
I started in fighters - the F-4 - as the world of dogfighting was ending. We had AIM-9Ps that needed to be fired from behind, and AIM-7Es that as often as not came off the rail and went ballistic.
The new missiles are very reliable. They work from any aspect. They can be fired when your plane is not pointed at the other plane. In short, this is neither 1965 nor 1985. It is STUPID to pretend otherwise.
It is like insisting someone has to get down to 100 feet to bomb a target accurately, when modern targeting pods and bombs make hits more likely (and fratricide less likely) from high altitude.
If you don’t understand how technology has changed over the last 50 years, you shouldn’t be designing and buying planes. I have a book that predicts the F-15 will become the biggest failure in the history of fighters...how did THAT turn out?
Here is the newest version of the F-15
Now compare it to the very expensive F-35
This Is A Fully Armed F-15SA, The Most Advanced Production Eagle Ever
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/this-is-a-fully-armed-f-15sa-the-most-advanced-product-1715732294
FTA: When it comes to weapons, the F-15SA can carry almost anything in the inventory. In the incredible image above showing an “extreme multi-role loadout” it packs: 2x AIM-120AMRAAMs, 2x AIM-9X Sidewinders, 2x AGM-84 SLAM-ERs, 2x AGM-88 HARMs, 6x GBU-54/B Laser JDAMs, and 8x GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bombs.
Meanwhile: F-35 Can’t Carry Its Most Versatile Weapon Until At Least 2022
FTA: F-15SA once again, albeit this time it is in an air-to-air configuration, including no less than eight AIM-120 AMRAAMs and eight AIM-9X Sidewinders. This amounts to double the missile carrying capability of the F-15C or F-15E. Also note the Infrared Search and Track system mounted above the jet’s radome. This, combined with its state of the art radar’s low probability of intercept modes, advanced radar warning receiver and Link 16 data-link, allows the F-15SA to hunt for enemy aircraft in electromagnetic silence while still maintain high-situational awareness.
#13 The solution is to have pilots with smaller heads.... :)
“The pilots helmet was too large to allow him too turn his head in the canopy.”
F15/16/18
I did some stuff with all those, and many others. Coolest ones out there, at the time.
The fantasy team Sabre is the Australian CAC version with Roll-Royce Avon turbojet, 2x30mm Aden cannon, and Sidewinders. Canadian-built, Orenda-engined versions also fought against MiG-21's in the 1971 Indo-Pakistani War, and did okay.
Thing is, nobody was thinking backwards in the USAF then. Vietnam war maneuverability concerns did make their way into the excellent future F15/16 designs.
LOL! Exactly!
I heard from two other Vietnam Phantom Pilots it was like a flying brick.
Although they were probably bias since they flew other fighters (Crusader and a Tomcat)?
I’ve always admired the F-4.
Chennault was not surprised because he was over in China fighting the darn thing and Thach developed his tactics after being exposed to the Zero.
However, you are right. The Departments of the Navy and War were both warned about the nature of the opposition - and chose to ignore it. Also, the were complete wedded to concept of daylight bombing by un-escorted bombers and killed tens of thousands of airmen.
I have to wonder what stupide ideas the DoD will used to kill our troops.
Meanwhile, the Navy is redesignating the useless LCS (”the floating F-35”) as a frigate. THAT’ll make a difference.
I hope i am wrong—I fear the F-35 is going to be sent up to face good Russian Mig—35’s who will eat their lunch. He have been so long on top that we can not imagine we might be lagging behind. Lots of good Americans may die because of this. Maybe the military leaders have bought the mantra that the UN means never having to fight a war again—FOOLS. China and Russia are gearing up for a war —one to control east Europe (again) and the other asia. What if they ever join together? We can’t depend on Germany and Japan to save us.
Memories... the O Club at NAS North Island... on a hill next to the runways... A-3s and A-5s doing 24/7 landings... the heat and the roar... the smell of JP mixed with that of beer and singapore slings and sex sweat ... it was quite a ride.
The United States, China, and Russia eye each other across a twenty-first century version of the Cold War, which suddenly heats up at sea, on land, in the air, in outer space, and in cyberspace. The fighting involves everything from stealthy robotic–drone strikes to old warships from the navy’s “ghost fleet.” Fighter pilots unleash a Pearl Harbor–style attack; American veterans become low-tech insurgents; teenage hackers battle in digital playgrounds; Silicon Valley billionaires mobilize for cyber-war; and a serial killer carries out her own vendetta. Ultimately, victory will depend on blending the lessons of the past with the weapons of the future. Ghost Fleet is a page-turning speculative thriller in the spirit of The Hunt for Red October. The debut novel by two leading experts on the cutting edge of national security, it is unique in that every trend and technology featured in the novel — no matter how sci-fi it may seem — is real, or could be soon.
“... the smell of JP mixed with that of beer and singapore slings and sex sweat ... it was quite a ride.”
And what I can believe is that it is over in a blink of an eye!
Yes, it was a place and time to be 23 and fit and a flying officer going off to war... what our sand crab contemporaries can imagine only when watching movies...
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