why did it take so long to end apartheid south africa

Me | Friday, July 17, 2015

[cuban leaf]

Oh yes, South Africa was “so nice” with its institutionalized discrimination. How wonderful for “Europe South”!

---

It was better than before. Nobody was forced to stay.

Have you ever read The Bell Curve?

[wardaddy]

Disenfranchisement is tricky thing considering the north disenfranchised half their population too

Your half btw

Yet in their infinite wisdom they counted women as 5/5ths instead of their view that “DARKIES” who couldn’t vote either just about anywhere even if freedmen or not we’re only counted as 3/5ths

A peculiar nobility amongst Yankees I’d dare say

Man I would love to see for just one month how self righteous northerners like yourself would behave when having to deal with the enormous black populations we have and all that entails

Why didn’t Yall just scoop em all up in 1865 and bring them up there to enhance your utopia

Too cold?

No

You wanted to leave them here poor and impoverished dependent on radical republicans 40 acres and a mule while disenfranchised whites lived under the yoke

That obviously was only temporary

The ultimate irony is how many have come back down here because even if we don’t all jump to make babies with them were polite and tolerate and understand them in ways patronizing Yankees just don’t know

I’ll give you a standing invitation on a crash course anytime

[petitfour]

:-)

[wardaddy]

Nobody was forced to stay.....yes....they could have returned to all the black run surrounding nations many of them came from to begin with looking for work provided by the evil white privilege

[Sherman Logan]

Disenfranchisement.

Let’s assume 40% of population <21. That leaves 60%.

Half are women, leaving 30% electorate in MA, where there had never been any legal distinction between races since state constitution went into effect before US Constitution. Some other New England states were also non-racist in this regard, though to be fair I believe all midwestern states disenfranchised blacks.

In SC that 30% was about 60% black, so the franchise narrows down again to about 12%. Of course not even that 12% got to vote for President, as SC chose its electors thru the state legislature. Perfectly constitutional, but does put a crimp in any claim that SC not giving a single popular vote to Lincoln has some sort of existential meaning. It did’t give a single popular vote to any of the other candidates either.

I think you’re being disingenuous in your 3/5 comments. This is an idiotic liberal argument and it is unworthy of you to repeat it.

As you know, or should, the 3/5 did not apply to blacks, it applied to slaves, though the Constitution very carefully never called them that. In the Convention, the South wanted slaves counted as population for purposes of representation, but excluded for purposes of taxation. The North wanted the opposite. So they settled on 3/5 for both purposes.

Depending on your POV, this resulted in either an under or over representation for the South in Congress and therefore in the Electoral College. IMO over, as livestock isn’t usually counted for purposes of representation.

But the idea that “blacks” were counted as 3/5 of a person is quite simply wrong, as free blacks were counted as the equal of whites. In fact, the Constitution makes not a single reference to either color or race.

FWIW, I’ve lived in the South for 23 out of the last 27 years. My present apartment is right on the edge of the ghetto. I know all about the problems created by large numbers of insufficiently assimilated “people of color.”

Though the neighborhood is getting somewhat better as more and more Hispanics move in. Or at least there’s much better food available now. :)

For that matter, I grew up in MO, which southerners generally consider midwestern, and northerners consider southern. My parents had a mixed marriage, Dad being from KS and Mom from MO. :)

My friends growing up were pretty evenly split between cultural southerners and cultural midwesterners. Though I must confess to having been raised as a midwesterner.

I’m glad you enjoyed your trip. Should have stayed up there till October. :)

[Sherman Logan]

It is a fallacy that a minority can’t dominate a majority for long. Simply untrue.

What is impossible is for a minority infected with modern Christian and secular ideas of equality to do so. For a people with no ethical inhibitions, no problem.

Perhaps the most dystopian SF series I’ve ever read addressed the South African situation, assuming that white South Africans decided to go the non-ethical route, based on a somewhat different history. Wind up conquering and enslaving the entire world, not just Africans.

Very nasty. Recommended if you have a somewhat strong stomach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Domination

[Rockingham]

In its prime, the Boer government of South Africa was determined to stay in power, enjoyed financial strength based on great mineral wealth, and had a large and capable security establishment. Using informers, surveillance, and calibrated force, bribery, and cruelty, capable Black leaders were identified and arrested or otherwise neutralized and organized plots and threat to the regime were swiftly broken up.

Nevertheless, the demographic balance was shifting decisively in favor of Black power. Due to generational change and the collapse of Soviet communism, new Boer leaders came into power who saw that their best course was to make a political settlement with the majority Black leadership that avoided a revolution and preserved the wealth and security of the White urban elite.

Secret talks were held, and Mandela was eventually dusted off, released from prison to worldwide acclaim, and a transition to Black majority rule was soon arranged. Today, the Black government of South Africa has become as corrupt and dysfunctional as the general run of Africa's Black governments, with endemic poverty and violent crime out of control.

Nevertheless, although nervous about the long term, the wealthy white urban elite are -- for now -- more or less safe in their gated estates and fortified offices and able to move about with armed security in discretely armored sedans. They will be permitted to stay as long as their managerial skills and financial connections are needed for continued extraction of South Africa's mineral wealth.

[MinorityRepublican]

new Boer leaders came into power who saw that their best course was to make a political settlement with the majority Black leadership that avoided a revolution and preserved the wealth and security of the White urban elite.

Wealth of White urban elite is preserved, however, security is precarious due to out of control crime.

[Rockingham]

Although menacing and severe by historical standards, the rate of violent crime in South Africa is less than that of many cities in Latin America and similar to that of several cities in the US. For example, Cape Town, South Africa, had the country's highest rate of homicide at 50.94 per 100,000 residents, but nineteen major cities had higher rates, and four US cities (St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, and New Orleans) made a list of the 50 cities with the highest rate of homicide. The 50 Most Violent Cities In The World