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Pioneering Neuroscientist Wilder Penfield: Why Don't We Have Intellectual Seizures?
Evolution News and Views ^ | April 21, 2016 | Michael Egnor

Posted on 04/21/2016 12:30:08 PM PDT by Heartlander

Pioneering Neuroscientist Wilder Penfield: Why Don't We Have Intellectual Seizures?

Michael Egnor April 21, 2016 12:00 PM | Permalink

Wilder Penfield was a pivotal figure in modern neurosurgery. He was an American-born neurosurgeon at the Montreal Neurological Institute who pioneered surgery for epilepsy. He was an accomplished scientist as well as a clinical surgeon, and made seminal contributions to our knowledge of cortical physiology, brain mapping, and intraoperative study of seizures and brain function under local anesthesia with patients awake who could report experiences during brain stimulation.

His surgical specialty was the mapping of seizure foci in the brain of awake (locally anesthetized) patients, using the patient's experience and response to precise brain stimulation to locate and safely excise discrete regions of the cortex that were causing seizures. Penfield revolutionized neurosurgery (every day in the operating room I use instruments he designed) and he revolutionized our understanding of brain function and its relation to the mind

Penfield began his career as a materialist, convinced that the mind was wholly a product of the brain. He finished his career as an emphatic dualist.

During surgery, Penfield observed that patients had a variable but limited response to brain stimulation. Sometimes the stimulation would cause a seizure or evoke a sensation, a perception, movement of muscles, a memory, or even a vivid emotion. Yet Penfield noticed that brain stimulation never evoked abstract thought. He wrote:

There is no area of gray matter, as far as my experience goes, in which local epileptic discharge brings to pass what could be called "mindaction"... there is no valid evidence that either epileptic discharge or electrical stimulation can activate the mind... If one stops to consider it, this is an arresting fact. The record of consciousness can be set in motion, complicated though it is, by the electrode or by epileptic discharge. An illusion of interpretation can be produced in the same way. But none of the actions we attribute to the mind has been initiated by electrode stimulation or epileptic discharge. If there were a mechanism in the brain that could do what the mind does, one might expect that the mechanism would betray its presence in a convincing manner by some better evidence of epileptic or electrode activations.1 [Emphasis added.]

Penfield noted that intellectual function -- abstract thought -- could only be switched off by brain stimulation or a seizure, but it could never be switched on in like manner. The brain was necessary for abstract thought, normally, but it was not sufficient for it. Abstract thought was something other than merely a process of the brain.

Penfield's observations bring to light a perplexing aspect of epilepsy -- or at least an aspect of epilepsy that should be perplexing to materialists. Seizures always involve either complete unconsciousness or specific activation of a non-abstract neurological function -- flashes of light, smells, jerking of muscles, specific memories, strong emotions -- but seizures never evoke discrete abstract thought. This is odd, given that the bulk of brain tissue from which seizures arise is classified as association areas that are thought to sub-serve abstract thought. Why don't epilepsy patients have "calculus seizures" or "moral ethics" seizures, in which they involuntarily take second derivatives or contemplate mercy? The answer is obvious -- the brain does not generate abstract thought. The brain is normally necessary for abstract thought, but not sufficient for it.

Furthermore, Penfield noted that patients were always aware that the sensation, memory, etc., evoked by brain stimulation was done to them, but not by them. Penfield found that patients retained a "third person" perspective on mental events evoked by brain stimulation. There was always a "mind" that was independent of cortical stimulation:

The patient's mind, which is considering the situation in such an aloof and critical manner, can only be something quite apart from neuronal reflex action. It is noteworthy that two streams of consciousness are flowing, the one driven by input from the environment, the other by an electrode delivering sixty pulses per second to the cortex. The fact that there should be no confusion in the conscious state suggests that, although the content of consciousness depends in large measure on neuronal activity, awareness itself does not.2

Penfield finished his career as a passionate dualist. His materialist naiveté did not survive his actual scientific work and his experiences as a clinical neurosurgeon. My own experience as a neurosurgeon has led me to the same conclusion.

Remarkably, scholastic philosophers who worked in the Aristotelian tradition presaged Penfield's observations centuries ago. In the classical Aristotelian-Thomist understanding, the mind is several powers of the soul, which is the subsistent form of the body. "Subsistent" means that the soul informs the body, so to speak, as any form is composed to matter, but that it can exist independently of matter. The reason it can exist independently of matter is that the intellectual powers of the soul -- the ability to contemplate universals and engage in abstract thought -- is necessarily an immaterial power. Universals -- concepts that are not particular things -- by their nature cannot be in particular things, and thus cannot be in matter, even in brain matter.

Thus, the mind, as Penfield understood, can be influenced by matter, but is, in its abstract functions, not generated by matter.

Aristotle, if informed of Penfield's experiments, would have yawned: "Of course the mind is not wholly material. Abstract thought -- contemplation of universals -- is immaterial by its nature, and cannot be generated by the brain." The philosopher would have shrugged, as he concerned himself with other propositions that weren't as obvious. It is remarkable that insights from philosophers in the Aristotelian-Thomist school from millennia ago presage modern discoveries in the neuroscience of the mind-brain relationship with such stunning accuracy.

H/t: Chris Carter, Science and the Near-Death Experience: How Consciousness Survives Death.

References:

(1) Penfield, The Mystery of the Mind, pp. 77-8.

(2) Ibid., p. 55.



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To: Heartlander

I’ve voiced no dogma. Worthwhile conversations require both side to read carefully. Please start.


41 posted on 04/22/2016 5:53:20 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Freedom isn't free, liberty isn't liberal and you'll never find anything Right on the Left)
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To: Heartlander

Quoting Darwin is of little value. He was a great thinker and discovered some great truths but he knows no more about modern evolutionary science than Columbus did about North American geography.


42 posted on 04/22/2016 5:55:57 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Freedom isn't free, liberty isn't liberal and you'll never find anything Right on the Left)
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To: muir_redwoods

Really? You started by completely misreading the posted article with a dogmatic question and yet I still continued the conversation.


43 posted on 04/22/2016 5:57:49 PM PDT by Heartlander (Prediction: Increasingly, logic will be seen as a covert form of theism. - Denyse O'Leary)
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To: Heartlander

I’m sorry but so what? The fact that the Founders paid lip service to bronze-age mythology is simply good politics. Jefferson certainly was no christian and the same is true for Franklin.


44 posted on 04/22/2016 5:58:14 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Freedom isn't free, liberty isn't liberal and you'll never find anything Right on the Left)
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To: Heartlander

You asked me about the possible sources of consciousness which I answered. Again, careful reading is really a valuable life skill, look into it.


45 posted on 04/22/2016 5:59:51 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Freedom isn't free, liberty isn't liberal and you'll never find anything Right on the Left)
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To: muir_redwoods
How about Michael Ruse and E. O. Wilson in The Evolution of Ethics:
Morality, or more strictly our belief in morality, is merely an adaptation put in place to further our reproductive ends. Hence the basis of ethics does not lie in God’s will…. In an important sense, ethics as we understand it is an illusion fobbed off on us by our genes to get us to cooperate. It is without external grounding. Like Macbeth’s dagger, it serves a powerful purpose without existing in substance.

Ethics is illusory inasmuch as it persuades us that it has an objective reference. This is the crux of the biological position. Once it is grasped, everything falls into place.


46 posted on 04/22/2016 6:00:17 PM PDT by Heartlander (Prediction: Increasingly, logic will be seen as a covert form of theism. - Denyse O'Leary)
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To: muir_redwoods

Again - take your own advice...


47 posted on 04/22/2016 6:02:42 PM PDT by Heartlander (Prediction: Increasingly, logic will be seen as a covert form of theism. - Denyse O'Leary)
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To: muir_redwoods

You should expect years from now people will be saying the same about you and your beliefs - since you believe they ultimately come from mindlessness. In fact, you should expect to be wrong about most everything due to there being no reason for truth according to your belief.


48 posted on 04/22/2016 6:09:27 PM PDT by Heartlander (Prediction: Increasingly, logic will be seen as a covert form of theism. - Denyse O'Leary)
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To: muir_redwoods
How about this?
Darwin showed that material causes are a sufficient explanation not only for physical phenomena, as Descartes and Newton had shown, but also for biological phenomena with all their seeming evidence of design and purpose. By coupling undirected, purposeless variation to the blind, uncaring process of natural selection, Darwin made theological or spiritual explanations of the life processes superfluous. Together with Marx's materialistic theory of history and society and Freud's attribution of human behavior to influences over which we have little control, Darwin's theory of evolution was a crucial plank in the platform of mechanism and materialism…
-Douglas Futuyma's Evolutionary Biology), p. 5

49 posted on 04/22/2016 6:13:05 PM PDT by Heartlander (Prediction: Increasingly, logic will be seen as a covert form of theism. - Denyse O'Leary)
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To: Little Pig

So you’re saying it would be be like a hundred agitated monkeys typing War and Peace as opposed to just screaming and running around.


50 posted on 04/22/2016 6:17:00 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: muir_redwoods
FYI - 28 Fundamental Principles of the Founding Fathers - note how a creator was necessary.
51 posted on 04/22/2016 6:22:07 PM PDT by Heartlander (Prediction: Increasingly, logic will be seen as a covert form of theism. - Denyse O'Leary)
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To: muir_redwoods
Nope. I stated - (to continue with the software paradigm) we know DNA has the following:

1. Functional Information
2.Encoder
3. Error Correction
4. Decoder
How could such a system form randomly without any intelligence, and totally unguided?

What would come first - the encoder, error correction, or the decoder? How and where did the functional information originate?

Furthermore, DNA contains multi-layered information that reads both forward and backwards - DNA stores data more efficiently than anything we've created - and a majority of DNA contains metainformation (information about how to use the information in the context of the related data).

You answered nothing...

52 posted on 04/22/2016 6:43:16 PM PDT by Heartlander (Prediction: Increasingly, logic will be seen as a covert form of theism. - Denyse O'Leary)
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To: Heartlander

and what support is there for your beliefs beyond bronze age mythology? You seem to be unable to imaging anything more advanced that the mind. I can easily imagine a creative force lacking consciousness, will or purpose.

Why are any of those three necessary for your vision of a creative force? Gravity has none of those. Electromagnetism has none of those. They have formed galaxies.

You burden yourself with lots of unexamined premises, it seems to me.


53 posted on 04/23/2016 3:00:20 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Freedom isn't free, liberty isn't liberal and you'll never find anything Right on the Left)
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To: Heartlander

well, how about that? It seems like an attempt to use the verifiable basis of Darwin’s work you support the discredited work of others.

Why don’t you tackle ERV’s and explain how the irrefutable evidence they provide that humans and chimps had a common ancestor isn’t so?


54 posted on 04/23/2016 3:06:12 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Freedom isn't free, liberty isn't liberal and you'll never find anything Right on the Left)
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To: Heartlander

I’ll accept a creative force but that doesn’t require consciousness, will or purpose.


55 posted on 04/23/2016 3:07:34 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Freedom isn't free, liberty isn't liberal and you'll never find anything Right on the Left)
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To: Heartlander

you ask me to explain how things like DNA could exist without a bronze age myth to explain them. I ask you to explain the origins of a complexity like your myth a d you say your myth needs no source and fault me for not answering your question.

Really? If the rules of logic form the basis for your assertion that complexity needs a designer, you need to explain the origins of your creator and bronze age crap like myths and Aristotle won’t do. intellectual rigor requires consistency. Who designed your designer?


56 posted on 04/23/2016 3:25:21 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Freedom isn't free, liberty isn't liberal and you'll never find anything Right on the Left)
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To: muir_redwoods

False logic in this question. it presumes the conditions created by the designer are the same as for the creator. Thats akin to saying that the conditions inside a petri dish apply to the experimenter outside the dish. Using secular concepts, Prior to the Big Bang Matter, energy and time as we perceive it did not exist. The Creator arguably is of that environment whatever it is. Thus the concept of origin would be very different then what we here in the petri dish can perceive.


57 posted on 04/23/2016 4:10:55 AM PDT by Mechanicos (Trump is for America First. Cruz is for America Last. It's that simple.)
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To: Mechanicos

it’s like this. Your entire logical basis is the silly notion the high complexity requires a designer. If you assert this, then it logically follows that the very high complexity of the designer requires a more complex designer. That is logically inescapable unless you simply want to dodge the issue by resorting to some miracle. It matters not a whit what initial conditions might have been since the logic still applies. You can’t talk your way out of this corner you’ve painted yourself into.

That’s mythology, not logic but I’ve come to expect no more in this discussion.


58 posted on 04/25/2016 3:18:49 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Freedom isn't free, liberty isn't liberal and you'll never find anything Right on the Left)
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To: muir_redwoods

The argument your tried was a logical fallacy as it bootstrapped the limitations we have within a known created universe to what was before. Obviously before matter and energy TIME with its attendant cause and effect could not exist. E = Mc^2 is what we know. Before the Big Bang we did not have any of them so no C aka Linear time a function of energy and matter which came about from Nothing we can fathom.

So your logic as you call it is faulty as it akin to the bacteria in a Petri dish ascribing to world outside the dish the limitations inside the dish. That is not logical.

So no its not corner at all, its you lack of ability to to reason.

You tell me, on what basis of knowledge should there be presumed linear time with its attendant cause and effect as we know it before there was matter and energy?


59 posted on 04/25/2016 3:56:32 AM PDT by Mechanicos (Trump is for America First. Cruz is for America Last. It's that simple.)
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To: muir_redwoods
I answered your question @32 but I’ll do it again. I mentioned Aristotle because he puts forth (in Physics) the logical reasoning that leads to the conclusion that the initial cause of motion must be something that is not, itself, in motion—an unmoved mover – the Prime Mover (see also St Thomas Aquinas). If every cause is the result of a previous cause, or, if everything is caused by something else, then we have an "infinite regress" of causes which is logically incoherent (who designed the designer). Furthermore, natural processes cannot create natural processes (circulus in probando). So we are logically left with ‘creation’ from outside of nature.

… the naturalist believes that beneath every natural phenomenon there exists yet another natural phenomenon. If explanation by reference to an endless stack of large turtles is silly, then an explanation by reference to an endless stack of natural phenomena would be equally so. The naturalist's answer for the origin of life, therefore, is some natural phenomenon. (Which one is not particularly relevant.) When you ask them how that natural phenomenon came to be, their response boils down to: "It's natural phenomena all the way down!"
-Pete Chadwell
…And beyond the design in DNA, we have a fine-tuned universe, a rare Earth, human consciousness, etc… Yet you believe your brain ultimately comes from mindlessness.

“If you do not assume the law of non-contradiction, you have nothing to argue about. If you do not assume the principles of sound reason, you have nothing to argue with. If you do not assume libertarian free will, you have no one to argue against. If you do not assume morality to be an objective commodity, you have no reason to argue in the first place. If you do not assume mind is primary, there is no “you” to make any argument at all.”
- William J Murray

60 posted on 04/25/2016 1:06:19 PM PDT by Heartlander (Prediction: Increasingly, logic will be seen as a covert form of theism. - Denyse O'Leary)
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