Jewish plans for London 'eruv' zone ringed by six miles of fishing wire to avoid restrictions [tr]

UK Daily Mail ^ | June 1, 2016 | Mark Duell

[C19fan]

A six-mile perimeter could be created around an area of North London to help Orthodox Jews avoid restrictions on the Sabbath. Fishing wire would be suspended from tall poles to create the boundary for what would become a huge eruv, acting as an extension of the walls of a home which would give Jews greater freedom. But there are concerns the proposal to Camden Council by a group of synagogues could lead to ‘ghettoisation’ of the area, following similar fears raised in another application nearby in 2014.

[C19fan]

Being from the NYC metro area I remember similar stories about Orthodox Jews applying to do the same thing in the area. The Gentiles tended to object because they did not want poles with fishing wire in the neighborhood.

[AppyPappy]

How weird.

[Starboard]

Wonder what the new mayor of London thinks about this?

[bert]

what is an eruv and what does fishing wire have to do with it?

oh, and what is fishing wire?

[C19fan]

Seems like one of those violating the spirit of the law. But who am I to tell observant Jews how to observe the Sabbath. I read similar things about Jubilee years where to get around the obligation to forgive debts observant Jews would transfer assets to Gentiles in a type of repurchase agreement.

[AppyPappy]

It’s just odd they come up with elaborate schemes to get around rules they voluntarily follow.

[PghBaldy]

I would have thought they had one already, but it is the UK. My old neighborhood has one in Pittsburgh, IIRC.

[Honorary Serb]

Can we “Infidels” somehow set up muslim-free zones, using a similar system?

What about “gay”-free zones? (This would be especially helpful during the month of June.)

Of course, neither would be allowed!!!!

[Travis T. OJustice]

Ive used stainless trolling wire for bluefin.

[Ann Archy]

THIS is what Orthodox means......following the rules instead of CHANGING them!!! Talk about Ghettoization!! These would be NO GO ZONES....maybe they already are.....I’m sure they don’t want any Gentiles in their hood.

[Albion Wilde]

The eruv is not to keep gentiles out; it is to give the Orthodox Jews within a boundary in which to walk on the Sabbath. We have several Orthodox communities in Maryland's Baltimore suburbs, where non-Orthodox drivers passing through on the public streets can observe Orthodox Jews walking the distance to and from services. Some communities used to use existing telephone poles. Now that most lines are buried, they are seeking other ways to erect the eruv. Click on the link above to read about why the eruv helps them to observe their "no work on the Sabbath" rule.

[Boogieman]

I don’t think that you can fool God with technicalities.

[Boogieman]

It’s related to a rule from the Talmud that if they take a bit of string they can fence off an area outside their home and then they can use that area on the sabbath as if it were inside their home. Harmless enough, but if you decide to extend that to stringing off whole neighborhoods, I think you are ignoring the spirit of the rule.

[bert]

Thanks

[MeanWestTexan]

"It’s just odd they come up with elaborate schemes to get around rules they voluntarily follow." Being chosen is not a choice for the chosen. An eruv ([ʔeˈʁuv]; Hebrew: עירוב‎‎, "mixture", also transliterated as eiruv or erub, plural: eruvin [ʔeʁuˈvin]) is a ritual enclosure that some Jewish communities, and especially Orthodox Jewish communities, construct in their neighborhoods as a way to permit Jewish residents or visitors to carry certain objects outside their own homes on Sabbath and Yom Kippur. An eruv accomplishes this by integrating a number of private and public properties into one larger private domain, thereby avoiding restrictions on carrying objects from the private to the public domain on Sabbath and holidays. The eruv allows these religious Jews to, among other things, carry house keys, tissues, medicines, or babies with them, and use strollers and canes. The presence or absence of an eruv thus especially affects the lives of people with limited mobility and those responsible for taking care of babies and young children.

[Mrs. Don-o]

The purpose of the symbolic enclosure is not to keep gentiles out, or to create a no-go zone. According to the article, it's to create a kind of "virtual" boundary within which you'd have a single kind of ritual space. These eruvim posts and fishing lines are barely visible or noticeable. They are the next best thing to invisible fences without being literally invisible.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see why anyone should be bent out of shape by this. I mean, it's not my religion, but it's no skin off my nose, either.

It's also not my job to decide whether this is within or outside of proper Jewish fidelity to their religious customs. There's no way I, a Christian Gentile, have any reasonable way to have an opinion on that.

[SJackson]

Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you'd like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

Something you can't see is also an issue in the US. Upsets liberal Jews too

How Eruv Fight Is Setting Secular Jews Against Orthodox in the Summer Paradise

It has nothing to do with creating Ghettos, that was done for Jews by others. Or barring Christians from the effected neighborhoods. A couple links below. The demarcation, for observant Jews, recreates the common elements of the walled towns Jews lived in millenia ago. They're not visible, normally wires on existing utility poles. In most cases already existing wire.

Read more: How Eruv Fight Set Secular Jews Against Orthodox in the Summer Paradise

Eruv

Eruv

[SJackson]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see why anyone should be bent out of shape by this. I mean, it's not my religion, but it's no skin off my nose, either.

You're not wrong. I put a couple links in post 18 explaining the concept.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you. The additional information is interesting, and also perplexing.

What I'm perplexed about is this: who gives a flying fig about some nearly invisible symbolic boundary lines? Why are people so offended?

I respect the Orthodox Jews but, truth be told, it wouldn't make any difference to me if it was Hindus, Mormons or Santeria. It's an invisible boundary line that helps innocent, blameless, inoffensive people have a little more freedom of movement and action on the Sabbath.

Seriously, have at it. What's not to like?