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Black Death 'Was Not Plague' Say Experts
Ananova ^ | 4-12-2002

Posted on 04/12/2002 5:43:45 AM PDT by blam

Black Death 'was not plague' say experts

The Black Death may not have been caused by bubonic plague after all, say US scientists.

They have been looking at church records from the 14th century to find out how the disease spread.

They now think it was probably some other infection passed on by human contact and not bubonic plague which relies on flea-ridden rats.

Records show the disease spread along busy roads and rivers and over natural barriers which would have restricted rats.

They also say there are other diseases with similar symptoms which are more likely candidates.

The modern version of the plague usually occurs when there is an increase in the number of rat deaths - something not recorded during the 1300s.

Experts at Penn State University say an ancestor of bubonic plague might have been responsible, but if so it has evolved into something very different.

Bubonic plague was first suggested as the cause of the Black Death by 19th century doctors.

But Penn State's Dr James Wood said: "This disease appears to spread too rapidly among humans to be something that must first be established in wild rodent populations, like bubonic plague.

"An analysis of priests' monthly mortality rates during the epidemic shows a 45-fold greater risk of death than during normal times, a level of mortality far higher than usually associated with bubonic plague."

Story filed: 13:23 Friday 12th April 2002


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: antonineplague; archaeology; blackdeath; blackplague; bubonicplague; byzantineempire; epidemics; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; justinianplague; justiniansplague; pandemics; plague; plagueofathens; plagueofjustinian; plagues; romanempire; thesniffles; yersiniapestis
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To: E Rocc
"Back then, people often had fleas too."

Yup. Mostly they did. I've read that the highly populated cities were hit harder than the isolated areas in the countryside. Most of the 'learned' people in the cities would have died and we would have started back again with mainly the country bumpkins, er?

21 posted on 04/12/2002 12:38:01 PM PDT by blam
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To: E Rocc
Carried by the Oriental Rat Flea to be exact.

I couldn't find anything on exhumation/harvesting evidence. Oh, well.

EBUCK

22 posted on 04/12/2002 12:39:38 PM PDT by EBUCK
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To: kd5cts
I'm not dead! I'm feeling better. I think I'll go for a walk.
23 posted on 04/12/2002 12:44:57 PM PDT by uglybiker
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To: uglybiker
Now stop that, you aren't fooling anyone.

a. cricket

24 posted on 04/12/2002 12:49:22 PM PDT by another cricket
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To: blam
There must be something somewhere we could check, huh?

The organism which, reputedly, causes plague [it was called Pasteurella pestis when I taught microbiology] is comparatively fragile outside of a living body. Doubtful if it could survive hundreds of years.

On the other hand, if the plague affected the northern parts of Scandinavia and Russia there might well be some victims buried in the permafrost. Odds [IMO] would be much higher to recover some of the caustive entity in this case.

25 posted on 04/12/2002 12:58:32 PM PDT by curmudgeonII
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To: blam
..."(We are the ancestors of the survivors of this plague, so presumably we have some immunity.)"...

We are NOT the ANCESTORS of survivors from the 1300s.....we are DESCENDANTS......unless you're r-e-a-l-l-y, r-e-a-l-l-y old!! LOL.

26 posted on 04/12/2002 1:04:59 PM PDT by Rowdee
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To: Rowdee
Didn't Mel Brooks do a 1000 year old man skit?

a.cricket

27 posted on 04/12/2002 1:06:36 PM PDT by another cricket
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To: curmudgeonII
The Iceman would have been a good candidate but he was much to early. They (finally) found a sample of the 1918 'Spanish Flu' (Which originated in Kansas) virus in a biopsy from a WW1 soldier that had been 'filed away.'
28 posted on 04/12/2002 1:11:00 PM PDT by blam
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To: laotzu
I agree.

What I've seen of rats, they're always around water, harbors, canals, ships, etc. Rivers would not be a barrier, but the perfect way for them to get around.

A fascinating article anyway. The plague supposedly killed off 1/3 of the population of Europe. Paintings by Pieter Breughel the Elder evoke feelings of what it may have been like in those times.

29 posted on 04/12/2002 1:11:13 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: blam
Doesn't bubonic plague respond to antibiotics?
30 posted on 04/12/2002 1:13:14 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: Rowdee
"We are NOT the ANCESTORS of survivors from the 1300s.....we are DESCENDANTS......unless you're r-e-a-l-l-y, r-e-a-l-l-y old!! LOL."

Yup. My mistake. I do the same with niece and nephew.

31 posted on 04/12/2002 1:13:24 PM PDT by blam
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To: another cricket
Didn't Mel Brooks do a 1000 year old man skit?

I also kinda liked Mel Blanc's Mexican skit (Sigh).

32 posted on 04/12/2002 1:16:21 PM PDT by lds23
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To: Sam Cree
"Doesn't bubonic plague respond to antibiotics?"

I think so and so does Lyme Disease, but notice how we panic over it.

33 posted on 04/12/2002 1:16:46 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Rats aren't the vector of the plague, fleas are. Humans had fleas almost universally then. Fleas can spread from human to human very rapidly. This one doesn't pass muster.
34 posted on 04/12/2002 1:43:37 PM PDT by CholeraJoe
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: blam
I didn't know Lyme disease responded, my sister in law is terrified of it
36 posted on 04/12/2002 2:33:05 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: blam
A river considered to be a barrier to plague?

The organism, Yersinia pestis, could cross via infective fleas using boats, dams, tree limbs, bridges, floating debris, swimming animals, or catapults.

Plague arrived on American shores around 1900 from Asia, probably on a vessel putting into San Francisco. It's now found throughout the western U.S., and there's NO getting rid of it.

37 posted on 04/12/2002 2:45:06 PM PDT by AngrySpud
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To: Sam Cree
"I didn't know Lyme disease responded, my sister in law is terrified of it"

If detected early, Lyme Disease is corrected with antibiotics fairly easily. It's has some pretty serious complications if not detected and treated early. (Late stage Lyme Disease requires months of intraveneous antibotics and even then, not always successful.) It can even cause serious mental problems.

38 posted on 04/12/2002 3:50:17 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Do you know what the symptoms are?

We're often bitten by those really small ticks during the summer in rural central Virginia. The small ones make such light footsteps that you don't necessarily feel them walking on you.

39 posted on 04/12/2002 3:58:50 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: Sam Cree
"Do you know what the symptoms are?"

At the site of infection/bite there will be a dark 'bullseye' pattern on/under the skin. If this is not detected (and treated), it will advance next into a condition described as 'flu symptoms.' In the advanced/later stages it gets really serious and is frequently not detectable, arthritis, fatigue, depression and mental confusion are just some of the symptoms. (It will vary somewhat from person to person) I thought I had it at one time and am still not sure I don't.

40 posted on 04/12/2002 4:16:13 PM PDT by blam
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