Posted on 09/26/2002 8:29:44 AM PDT by blam
Who were the Celts?
The Celts were a group of peoples that occupied lands stretching from the British Isles to Gallatia. The Celts had many dealings with other cultures that bordered the lands occupied by these peoples, and even though there is no written record of the Celts stemming from their own documents, we can piece together a fair picture of them from archeological evidence as well as historical accounts from other cultures.
The first historical recorded encounter of a people displaying the cultural traits associated with the Celts comes from northern Italy around 400 BC, when a previously unkown group of barbarians came down from the Alps and displaced the Etruscans from the fertile Po valley, a displacment that helped to push the Etruscans from history's limelight. The next encounter with the Celts came with the still young Roman Empire, directly to the south of the Po. The Romans in fact had sent three envoys to the beseiged Etruscans to study this new force. We know from Livy's The Early History of Rome that this first encounter with Rome was quite civilized:
[The Celts told the Roman envoys that] this was indeed the first time they had heard of them, but they assumed the Romans must be a courageous people because it was to them that the [Etruscans] had turned to in their hour of need. And since the Romans had tried to help with an embassy and not with arms, they themselves would not reject the offer of peace, provided the [Etruscans] ceded part of their seperfluous agricultural land; that was what they, the Celts, wanted.... If it were not given, they would launch an attack before the Romans' eyes, so that the Romans could report back how superior the Gauls were in battle to all others....The Romans then asked whether it was right to demand land from its owners on pain of war, indeed what were the Celts going in Etruria in the first place? The latter defiantly retorted that their right lay in their arms: To the brave belong all things. The Roman envoys then preceded to break their good faith and helped the Etruscans in their fight; in fact, one of the envoys, Quintas Fabius killed one of the Celtic tribal leaders. The Celts then sent their own envoys to Rome in protest and demand the Romans hand over all members of the Fabian family, to which all three of the original Roman envoys belonged, be given over to the Celts, a move completely in line with current Roman protocol. This of course presented problems for the Roman senate, since the Fabian family was quite powerful in Rome. Indeed, Livy says that:
The party structure would allow no resolution to be made against such noblemanm as justice would have required. The Senate...therefore passed examination of the Celts' request to the popular assembly, in which power and influence naturally counted for more. So it happened that those who ought to have been punished were instead appointed for the coming year military tribunes with consular powers (the highest that could be granted). The Celts saw this as a mortal insult and a host marched south to Rome. The Celts tore through the countryside and several battalions of Roman soilders to lay seige to the Capitol of the Roman Empire. Seven months of seige led to negotiations wherby the Celts promised to leave their seige for a tribute of one thousand pounds of gold, which the historian Pliny tells was very difficult for the entire city to muster. When the gold was being weighed, the Romans claimed the Celts were cheating with faulty weights. It was then that the Celts' leader, Brennus, threw his sword into the balance and and uttered the words vae victis "woe to the Defeated". Rome never withstood another more humiliating defeat and the Celts made an initial step of magnificent proportions into history.
Other Roman historians tell us more of the Celts. Diodorus notes that:
Their aspect is terrifying...They are very tall in stature, with ripling muscles under clear white skin. Their hair is blond, but not naturally so: they bleach it, to this day, artificially, washing it in lime and combing it back from their foreheaads. They look like wood-demons, their hair thick and shaggy like a horse's mane. Some of them are cleanshaven, but others - especially those of high rank, shave their cheeks but leave a moustache that covers the whole mouth and, when they eat and drink, acts like a sieve, trapping particles of food...The way they dress is astonishing: they wear brightly coloured and embroidered shirts, with trousers called bracae and cloaks fastened at the shoulder with a brooch, heavy in winter, light in summer. These cloaks are striped or checkered in design, with the seperate checks close together and in various colours. [The Celts] wear bronze helmets with figures picked out on them, even horns, which made them look even taller than they already are...while others cover themselves with breast-armour made out of chains. But most content themselves with the weapons nature gave them: they go naked into battle...Weird, discordant horns were sounded, [they shouted in chorus with their] deep and harsh voices, they beat their swords rythmically against their shields.
Diodorus also describes how the Celts cut off their enemies' heads and nailed them over the doors of their huts, as Diodorus states:
In exactly the same way as hunters do with their skulls of the animals they have slain...they preserved the heads of their most high-ranking victims in cedar oil, keeping them carefully in wooden boxes. Diodorus Siculus, History.
What is a Celt and who are the Glasgow Celtics?
The people who made up the various tribes of concern were called Galli by the Romans and Galatai or Keltoi by the Greeks, terms meaning barbarian. It is from the greek Keltoi that Celt is derived. Since no soft c exists in greek, Celt and Celtic and all permutations should be pronounced with a hard k sound.
It is interesting to note that when the British Empire was distinguishing itself as better and seperate from the rest of humanity, it was decided that British Latin should have different pronunciation from other spoken Latin. Therefore, one of these distinguishing pronunciational differences was to make many of the previously hard k sounds move to a soft s sound, hence the Glasgow and Boston Celtics. It is the view of many today that this soft c pronunciation should be reserved for sports teams since there is obviously nothing to link them with the original noble savegery and furor associated with the Celts.
The Six Celtic Languages
There was a unifying language spoken by the Celts, called not suprisingly, old Celtic. Philogists have shown the descendence of Celtic from the original Ur-language and from the Indo-European language tradition. In fact, the form of old Celtic was the closest cousin to Italic, the precursor of Latin.
The original wave of Celtic immigrants to the British Isles are called the q-Celts and spoke Goidelic. It is not known exactly when this immigration occurred but it may be placed somtime in the window of 2000 to 1200 BC. The label q-Celtic stems from the differences between this early Celtic tounge and Italic. Some of the differences between Italic and Celtic included that lack of a p in Celtic and an a in place of an the Italic o.
At a later date, a second wave of immigrants took to the British Isles, a wave of Celts referred to as the p-Celts speaking Brythonic. Goidelic led to the formation of the three Gaelic languages spoken in Ireland, Man and later Scotland. Brythonic gave rise to two British Isles languages, Welsh and Cornish, as well as surviving on the Continent in the form of Breton, spoken in Brittany.
The label q-Celtic stems from the differences between this early Celtic tounge and the latter formed p-Celtic. The differences between the two Celtic branches are simple in theoretical form. Take for example the word ekvos in Indo-European, meaning horse. In q-Celtic this was rendered as equos while in p-Celtic it became epos, the q sound being replaced with a p sound. Another example is the Latin qui who. In q-Celtic this rendered as cia while in p-Celtic it rendered as pwy. It should also be noted that there are still words common to the two Celtic subgroups.
As an aside, take note that when the Irish expansion into Pictish Britain occurred (see below), several colonies were established in present day Wales. The local inhabitants called the Irish arrivals gwyddel savages from which comes geídil and goidel and thus the Goidelic tounge.
The Irish and the Scots Are From the Same Tribe
Ireland used to be divided up into five parts, the five fifths. There was a northern fifth, Ulster, a western fifth, Connaught, a southern fifth, Munster, an eastern fifth, Leinster and a middle fifth, Mide. Click here to see a map of the five fifths.
The Ulster Cycle is a set of stories which are grounded in the five fifths. Indeed, they are primarily concerned with Cú Chulainn, the Ulster hero and his king, Conor Mac Nessa in their wars against the king and queen of Connaught, Ailill and Maeve. These figures play a prominent role in the what may be the greatest story of the Ulster Cycle, the Táin Bó Cúailnge, The Cattle Raid of Cooley.
Sometime after 300 AD, Ulster became steadily less important in status among the five farthings and the ruling family of Mide, the Uí Néill Sons of Niall started to take over large parts of Connaught and most of Ulster. A similar move was made in Muster by the ruling family of Munster, the Eoganachta family. Thus was Ireland divided almost entirely into two halves.
The people of Ulster were pushed to a small coastal strip bordering the Irish Sea. The kingdom changed it's name to Dál Riata. Yet eventually Dál Riata fell under the rule and influence of the Uí Néill. This family, not content with the boundry presented by the sea, launched colonies across the Irish Sea into then Pictish Britain. Thus was Scotland founded, for it was these Uí Néill that the Romans called Scotti, not the original Picts.
Indeed, it was this Irish Expansion which led to Christianity in Scotland in 563 AD. St. Columba, the patron saint of Scotland, was a member of a powerful family in Dál Riata and in order to keep his ties in Ireland he settled on an island that was close to both Scotland and Ireland, Iona. Of course, even more bizarre is the fact that St. Patrick, the man responsible for bringing Christianity to Ireland in the first place, was from Wales.
Respectfully, this part-celt disagrees. I think the celts failed to leave very much impact, due partly to lack of a written language at the time, and lack of a centralized government.
Also, they didn't survive as the cultural basis for any single nation. For example, modern Ireland is little more celtic, than it is anglo-saxon or norman or viking. Of course, I do grant that the language(s) remains with a not insignificant number of people, mainly in Ireland, Wales and Brittany.
An uncle of mine, born in the mid-1800s in Minnesota, of Canadian-Irish-protestant (eg. Scots) origins, was named Adomnan. This is the name of St. Columba's scribe, another priest at Iona. Scottish and Irish protestants can be good celts, too.
That timing indication is right on for the time when David Lived.
>Though found in China, evidence suggests she came from Europe.
I don't know where they get that idea. Not much going on in Europe at that time, but there are lot's of documented happenings with all the tribes of Israel.
>Respectfully, this part-celt disagrees.
I agree with you on this part. There were no CELTS at that time, only Proto-Celts. (Anything before 610BC or is is Proto-Celtic. They are related.) While they did seem to have a large impact, there numbers were nothing like the REAL CELTS who followed, a thousand or so years later. The major Celtic dig at Hallstatt is a good example of that.
>I think the celts failed to leave very much impact,
Gotta disagree on that one. The Celtic impact on western civilization alone is immense. The CELTS became Western Europe and offspring and their total population today is around 1 BILLION.
>due partly to lack of a written language
The "lack" of written language was deliberate. It was not that were incapeable of writing as it sometimes alleged, but writing was prohibited by their theology. Their use of "oral tradition" carried them through quite nicely.
>... lack of a centralized government.
Centralized government didn't really make any sense since they were split into 10 tribes to begin with, and they were scattered all over the European and west Asian frontier. Their population size was over 5 MILLION at the time they were first identified, about 600 BC, at the same place the Lost Tribes of Israel disappeared. Without the internet for communications it would have been tough to hold them all together {ggg}.
>Also, they didn't survive as the cultural basis for any single nation.
True, but they DID survive as the cultural basis for the entire western hemisphere, made up of many tribes and nations, most of them "King-based" in accordance with prophesy.
>For example, modern Ireland is little more celtic, than it is anglo-saxon or norman or viking. Of course, I do grant that the language(s) remains with a not insignificant number of people, mainly in Ireland, Wales and Brittany.
Most of that unfortunately is ethnic and cultural myth. The Anglo-Saxons, Normans and Vikings WERE also Celts.
I spent time at the University of Dublin (Trinity College) as a Post-Doctoral Student studying Ancient Celtic History. (Did the same thing at Oxford University a little earlier). Turns out the Irish and Brits are terribly anal-retentive when it comes to their "Celtic heritage", to the point they virtually ignore the vast Celtic history of Continental Europe, which contains FAR more Celts.
Much of what we hear today from Ireland and England (Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, Brittany, etc.) is designed to encourage the local tourist trade and should not be confused with historic fact. To really understand the Celts you also have to understand the European Celts.
Please check post #5, especially paragraphs 6 and 7 to see the broader picture of Who Were (and Are Today) The Celts.
-LT
Maybe you have been reading too much Roman history? {ggg}.
Were the Romans Barbaric with their centuries long blood lust for Christians and others in the Coliseum? Were the Romans Warlike? Illiteracy becomes a relative thing when keeping written records was specifically prohibited.
No, the Romans were civilization itself. If you don't believe that just find a Roman and ask. Oh wait, there aren't any Romans anymore. It doesn't matter, the center of civilization was transferred to the Celts who aren't barbarian anymore, depending on who you ask these days.
At that exact time, the Celts at Hallstadt were making fabric from exactly the same material (European sheep wool), using exactly the same production techniques and this resulted in clothing and designs exactly the same as at Hallstadt. There was, as yet unexplained, a connection. (Elizabeth Barber, Mummies Of Urumchi--Victor Mair, The Tarim Mummies)
Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
Great Answer! (Now what was the question...?)
Ah, right you are about that my friend. Hallstadt was a boomer to be sure, but mostly later one. The link you refer to is an excellent and I think important one between some Chinese finds and the Celts.
I was thinking of the time of David, which was ~1000 BC. The "Celts" at Hallstadt at that time were of the "Proto-Celt" variety. Related for sure, but displaced in time from the big Celtic invasion from the East which occured later.
That's a good answer, if you rely on Roman history about itself. {ggg}.
We know the Celtic population about 600 BC was over 6 MILLION people, and ~10% of the global population. (The global Celtic population today is near 1 BILLION out of a global 6 BILLION so is still ~10%+).
Do you have any commensurate Roman populations and Global percentages with which to make a meaningful comparison?
More mysteries.
It's amazing, I think I have made a connection of the Tarim Mummies to a Chinese woman (young and educated) in my local Chinese restaurant.
She was floored (as well as her husband) when I told her that I thought she may be a Hakka Chinese. She said that she was and sat there with her mouth open as I told her how we may be related through the Tarim Basin.
She just sat there shaking her head 'yes' as I told her (what I knew) of the history of the Hakka. She said that all had often wondered where the 'wavy' hair and high nose bridges of their 'clan' had originated.
The Hakka migrated all the way across China and were know by all as the 'friendly guests.' She said she was well aware of the 'guest' part but had not heard it associated with 'friendly.' Her husband, who is from Hong Kong said, 'who are you'? LOL. (Isn't this stuff GREAT!!)
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