Posted on 07/28/2006 3:08:54 AM PDT by maronite
But for some of the Christians who had made it out in this convoy, it was not just privations they wanted to talk about, but their ordeal at the hands of Hezbollah — a contrast to the Shiites, who make up a vast majority of the population in southern Lebanon and broadly support the militia.
“Hezbollah came to Ain Ebel to shoot its rockets,” said Fayad Hanna Amar, a young Christian man, referring to his village. “They are shooting from between our houses.”
“Please,’’ he added, “write that in your newspaper.”
In past wars, Christian militias were close to Israelis, and animosity between Christians and Shiites lingers.
Many Christians from Ramesh and Ain Ebel considered Hezbollah’s fighting methods as much of an outrage as the Israeli strikes. Mr. Amar said Hezbollah fighters in groups of two and three had come into Ain Ebel, less than a mile from Bint Jbail, where most of the fighting has occurred. They were using it as a base to shoot rockets, he said, and the Israelis fired back.
One woman, who would not give her name because she had a government job and feared retribution, said Hezbollah fighters had killed a man who was trying to leave Bint Jbail.
“This is what’s happening, but no one wants to say it” for fear of Hezbollah, she said.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
How was it that the Christian militias disarmed, but Hezballah did not? I don't know the history there.
Bad move on letting that happen.
****"Please,’’ he added, “write that in your newspaper.” **
Even in Lebanon they know the American media dosnt print all the news. This person begged the media to print the truth.
I am surprised to see this from the NY Times.
Prayers for Lebanon.
Must be feeling the pressure from their Jewish subscriber base.
I read that Lebanon was 85% Christian just a few decades ago. What the hell happened?
The only thing surprising about this story is that it was actually printed by the New York Slimes.
We are involved in a religous war, it has nothing to do with territory, nothing to do with poverty or tyrannical goverments. Muslims are ruled by the Koran, which is a book of oppression and violence.
Hard for me to say I am not an expert. However since you asked, I would say the smart Christians saw the handwriting on the wall and hauled ass.
I believe you are correct. Most of the good Christians couldn't stand the constant war and oppression and left, or right, as you please. Lebanon once the muzzies were in charge, stopped being a country and became a waste land.
the christian militias disarmed as it was a requirement of the peace treaty that all militias disarm and the army take charge. Hezbollah then refused to disarm claiming that it is its duty to liberate lebanon and many people supported them(pretty much all the shiites), that and they had the support of syria who were the power brokers at the time. Then came the exile of all the christian wartime leaders by syria and the ones who werent exiled were sentenced to life in solitary confinement or murdered. only last year did some leaders get released from jail and return from exile but we arent as strong as we once were. Many christians are still in exile in israel aswell and are not allowed to return because hezbollah wasnt allowing it. During the civil war the christian militias were very well trained(most went to israel to receive training and returned to lebanon to fight) and as my father put it, "had a will to fight", now christians are very weak in lebanon and are not united like before, there is a struggle for power amongst the christians about who will become the next president.
We bailed on them after the Marine barracks were bombed. Lebanon and Israel tell us everything we need to know about the ME. The two most advanced countries were tiny, and oil-free. They also had non-Muslim majorities. Now Lebanon is a pit. ME in a nutshell.
The Hizb'Allah scum are the scum of Allah. They are overjoyed to see Christians leave Lebanon and never return. These Shi'ite rats want a Muslim Lebanon.
The Slimes is simply incapable of reporting any news that is not accompanied by their editorializing. Would it have been too much to simply report on what the man said without besmearching his motives? There are still a lot of stupid New Yorkers who believe what this rag has to say.
I am amazed they reported this at all. And they managed to mention "Christians" without a reference to Pat Robertson!!!!
Ouch. I was afraid it would be something like that.
Time to arm up.
Lebanon needs a serious dose of "religious" cleansing.
All the Muslims should be driven out and it should be returned to Christian control.
With an anti-Islamic Lebanon embedded next to Israel, perhaps what is needed will be accomplished - a new drive to expel the Muslims from all the land they have stolen since the 600's and cordon them off in the centrqal wastes of Arabia - the desolation which spawned this cult of evil.
The west and the non-Muslim east must come to the realization that there is NO coexistance with Islam.
"I read that Lebanon was 85% Christian just a few decades ago. What the hell happened?"
Maronite, I'm copying you so that you may correct any misstatement that I make.
I believe that the area currently within Lebanon's borders has been no more than 55% Christian since 1932; it is now around 40% Christian. I believe that the demographic changes were brought about by three main causes: (1) the Christian mass emigration to Europe and the Americas that commenced in the late 19th century has continued, (2) Muslims women have a lot more children than Christian women, and (3) a couple of hundred thousand (overwhelmingly Muslim) Palestinians moved to Lebanon in the 1960s and '70s.
If you heard that Lebanon was 85% Christian a few decades ago, it must have been in reference to Mount Lebanon, the overwhelmingly Christian area that was a French protectorate in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. In the 1930s, the French pushed a plan for "Greater Lebanon" to become independent, but by expanding to its present borders it ceased being an overwhelmingly Christian country. I have always thought that Lebanon should be split into two or three separate countries so that Christians may forge their own destiny.
During the eighties Reagan sent the Marines so there would be a US presence, which was supposed to stop the violence, and a Christian was elected President. Shortly afterward he was assassinated and the Marine barracks were bombed. We left and Hezbollah and Syria have been running the show ever since.
Yes you are right about everything you said
The demographics change alot from emigration as well as child birth. no one knows really how many children per woman there is for each sect, but one study ive read puts shiites at 6.5 children/woman and sunnis and christians at 3.7. I actually believe these numbers as they match with what i see on the ground. I know 100's of christian families here and the minimum number of children in each is 3, and for most its 4 or 5. You are also right about the naturalization of palestinians and syrians but with the ousting of the syrians from lebanon there have been calls to strip them of their lebanese nationality which would be a good thing for both the religious demographics and the fact that i dont trust a palestinian as far as i can throw him.
Emigration comes with hard times, christians tend to be much better off than the muslims so we have the means to build a life elsewhere which is why christians emigrate the most. Mass emigrations took place during the late 1800's which was during ottoman rule and the druze who were backed by the brits and ottomans massacred 10,000 christians in 1860 (there is a nice book by a british colonel about this, i think its called the druzes and the maronites under turkish rule from 1840 to 1860). Back then 10,000 was a very large number for the small population of lebanon and it resulted in mass emigrations which my grandparents were part of. Then came 1958 and 1976-1989 where more and more christians fled including my parents. Although we tend to come back when things get better but many do not.
Lebanon has more lebanese living abroad then we do in our own country, i dont know of many countries who can say that, if there are any. Most of the lebanese abroad are christian and the problem with christian lebanese is that they are able to enter the society and many of them forget their lebanese roots while the muslims tend to not integrate. During the civil war there were ideas of a lebanon to be split but its too small of a country to be split in two, there were ideas of a federal state with different areas based on religion but thinking about it now its pretty much that now. In east beirut its 90% christian and in west beirut its 90% muslim. All lebanon is segregated like this, into christian areas and muslim areas. it causes many problems and fights even. the other day some hezbollah supporters tried to enter east beirut and put up banners of nasrallah but they were kicked out and not allowed to put them up.
Yeah, but it was probably on page 20 of section z.
Frankly I'm surprised they did.
Suprisingly, quite a few. Ireland is at the top of the list.
"Lebanon has more lebanese living abroad then we do in our own country, i dont know of many countries who can say that, if there are any."
"Suprisingly, quite a few. Ireland is at the top of the list."
Wow. I'm shocked that the NYT has printed this. Are all the demonstrations against them finally sinking in a bit?
Yes, actually we have a wonderful armenian community here in lebanon. But the problem with lebanon is that the number of lebanese living abroad affects the demographics alot and given the style of government in lebanon it is more relevant since we are a confessional democracy. There are about 5 times as many lebanese living abroad as there are in lebanon and are mostly christian.
bttt
That's the impression I get and they definitely have designs on the United States. I'd support the idea of banning the practice of Islam in the US today.
Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
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please FR mail me ~
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MikeFromFR ~
There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had
spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. (Joshua 21:45)
Letter To The President In Support Of Israel ~
'Final Solution,' Phase 2 ~
Warnings ~
"The West has given more significance to the myth of the genocide of the Jews, even more significant than God, religion, and the prophets...."—Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
The Holocaust Chronicle ~
" ... It's time we recognized the nature of the conflict. It's total war and we are all involved. Nobody on our side is exempted because of age, gender, or handicap. The Islamofacists have stolen childhood from the world."—FReeper Retief
"Palestine is the wrong name for their State. It should be called Anarchy."—FReeper sgtbono2002
"Then let's wait and see what the Arabs do after they take Gaza. There's nothing like Arab reality to break up a Jewish fantasy."—FReeper Noachian
A student told his professor he was going to "Palestine" to "fight for freedom, peace and justice,"—Orwellian leftist code words that mean "murder Jews."
The Nature Of Bruce ~
The Mainline Protestant churches are not helping their Christian brothers in Lebanon. Instead of condemning Hezbollah, the Presbyterians, in particular, like to meet with Hezbollah and say nasty things about the Jews.
From the Presbyterians 2004 visit---
PCUSA’s ACSWP is best known for the international flare up from its visit with Hezbollah terrorist leaders in October 2004. The ACSWP spokesman made this inflammatory remark at the Hezbollah meeting: “I'd like to say that, according to my recent experience, relations and conversations with Islamic leaders are a lot easier than dealings and dialogue with Jewish leaders."
http://concernedpresbyterians.net/fundingr.htm
Who drew the lines in 1989 at Taef? Were they not the traditional corrupt politicians of Lebanon under the supervision of the US "diplomats", the Saudi princes, Mr. Hariri and a very thick checkbook? Who ordered the LF, from Ehden in 1990 to start their mini-war against other christians? Why did they send Michel Aoun to exile in 1991 and Samir Geagea to prison in 1994? Why did the US diplomacy insisted until yesteryear that Syria is a stabilizing factor in Lebanon? To my knowledge the US diplomacy was not directly threatened by the Syrians as was Rafic Hariri. If you cannot answer these questions, then something is very wrong.
Why did Israel betray the SLA in May 2000? was it not to prepare for the Intifada of September 2000? It is understandable that Israel has its own priorities, so does the rest of the world. I'll add one thing: If Ariel Sharon were on the scene today, we would not have watched all that shambles. Exceptional times need exceptional leaders.
Why didn't the prime minister of Lebanon put the most important condition on top of his proposed package in Rome, which is the refusal of any sort of implanting palestinians in Lebanon? This war is to put the Lebanese people on their knees and remove that paragraph from their constitution. When this happens in the near future, you will feel betrayed once more. So please do not talk to me about 1975-76, all our dead comrades will be betrayed then.
oh please, michel aoun wanted the LF arms simply to gain support among the christians as he had his eyes fixed on the presidency back then as he does now. If he was so against militia arms then why did he suddenly switch to supporting hezbollahs weapons when he returned while all other politicians wanted to isolate hezbollah in an effort to weaken them, because he still has his damn eyes fixed on the presidency. a couple of years ago michel aoun was labelling hezbollah as a terrorist group so were most of his political party but when he returns he suddenly changes his mind simply to get a shiite acceptance and guess what the sheep that follow him suddenly change their mind aswell. I know the rest of the world (US included) could care less about lebanon which is why they supported the syrians in lebanon simply to get their support in gulf war 1. The christians got weak because michel aoun got greedy and the syrians took advantage of that. If you are trying to point out that some people are corrupt in lebanon, i know that, i know everyone is corrupt over here and i know every side tries to help their own community as best they can while putting on a face that they care about other communities. All of them except michel aoun who actually thinks that everyone in this country can get along fine because this guy lives in his own little dreamland where muslims and christians actually care about each other and help each other.
My dear fellow in maronitism,
I care less about Michel Aoun than I care about Samir Geagea and the whole bunch of the traditional politicians in the parliament, outside the parliament and those on the nomenclatura of the Maronite League headed by Michel Eddeh. We have been plagued by two Patriarch who deserved that Dr. Fuad Ephrem Boustany rolled up their diminutive names to their roots. The Christians got weak because they all got greedy. And we've got Hariri (now mini-Hariri) and Berri ruling the country as they want.
Listen, we have a bumper sticker saying: Geagea is out, Aoun is back, Emile remains in Baabda, This car is for sale, I am leaving the country. Aoun meets with Nasrallah on Feb.6, Geagea and the butcher of the Shouf hold fists together in the air on Feb. 14.
Our fallen comrades died for nothing. Checkmate, the country of the great Patriarch Hoyek exists no more.
Ya Mar Maroun toll w' shouf...
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