Member of the Arizona civilian border patrol arrested for pistol whipping an illegal couple

phxnews.com ^ | November 25, 2003 | Tucson Citizen

[BureaucratusMaximus]

You lied. Enjoy, linkless.

Its one thing for you to call me a coward...its a totally separate thing to call me a liar. The link I provided should bring you to an FR page that represents all FR articles referenced with the keyword ALIEN. These are not space alien articles...they are ILLEGAL ALIEN articles, of which you may be able to further educate yourself on how detrimental illegal immigration is for this country and realize that this is a law enforcement and accountability problem...not a "we should fix the Mexican economy problem". Then again, your response to me may be delusional, in the sense that you choose to remain ignorant...thats your choice...and that may be your agenda as well.

[NewRomeTacitus]

Thank you. I did not know that a few people have gone out of their way to degrade a good idea with their petty antics. May the law come down hard on them.
So is Ranch Rescue now made up of vigilante-minded individuals while American Border Alliance remains on the high road? If that's the case R.R. will have become the tool pro-illegal forces have been praying for.
And thanks for not giving up.

[NewRomeTacitus]

Poohbah person: They aren't "my people" any more than they are yours. I started typing (post 19) after reading up to post #5, posted, then went back to work. Violence is not a preferred solution to the invasion, though we should never be incapable of it if needed. It's still our country, not New Aztlan, and citizens are growing highly agitated by our representatives' failure to act. That agitation is often reflected in Illegal-Immigration posts. Is it not better to vent on a forum than "shoot & shovel"?
I prefer a "tough love" strategy of helping Mexico help itself. Intervention for Vincente' and the elite Pemex crowd.

[TLI]

It's still our country, not New Aztlan, and citizens are growing highly agitated by our representatives' failure to act.

The longer this crap goes on the more likley it becomes that thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of criminal aliens will die when the Americans can no longer support their own families and the tax bills that will be created by an unstemmed invasion of mexicans from the south. The Americans will simply revolt and drive them out. It will not be pretty and it will put America in a VERY unfavorable light with the rest of the world. The Americans will not care, they will be fighting to feed their own kids. Even as we discuss this here, there are many that are facing the facts of this issue and resigning themselves to what will become "what must be done."

Better to order them back now via law enforcment rather than ship them back in 2-3 years by the train car load.

[Ben Ficklin]

I'm sure you men will enjoy these threads:

Click here and here

[JustPiper]

an El Salvadoran couple

Slaves did not want to be taken. Immigrants are asking to be taken when they attempt to enter illegally. So then we don't just have illegals from Mexico to worry about? Now they are travelling through bandito territory up to Mexico to get in here?!

[JustPiper]

Lets ask Jinx

[PRND21]

Blah, blah, blah.
You lied on post five. I gave you the chance to source your claim. You didn't.
Coward AND liar.

[PRND21]

...let their population decrease to a level that their country can support.

Exterminate the "excess" Mexican population? Sounds familiar.

[TLI]

Last time I checked, the United States is a sovereign nation, as well as mexico...let the mexican people and the mexican government fix their own problems.

Exterminate the "excess" Mexican population? Sounds familiar.

I said "let it decrease." YOU said "exterminate." Don't lay somthing on me that you said.

First you say let them fix their own problems, then you say "exterminate." Which is it?

TLI

[PRND21]

Ethnic cleansing Bump. Keep backpeddling, dufus.

[libertylass]

This post was originally written by "RaggedWarrior", the former Arizona R.R. coordinator and now the leader of ABA (American Border Alliance) an offshoot of Ranch Rescue.

You can find a post of mine, regarding the original incident, right here on Free Republic from back in the Spring. As the closest associate to Jack Foote at the time of Casey and Hank Conners arrests, I became embroiled in the mess that ensued during their incarceration, but stayed staunch in my support of Jack and Casey Nethercott. That is, until I realized that what happened out at the Landowner's property was not what I originally was told.

Ragged Warrior claims in his Post that he has seen the depositions of witnesses to the beating of a lone Mexican. This has to be either a lie or stated incorrectly. There are no depositions from eye witnesses to the beating that has left the Mexican in a coma with a broken jaw. There was a 2nd incident two nights later when Casey supposedly pistol whipped a Salvadorian. It seems he hit the male in the back of the head with a pistol/rifle butt and is the incident that most people know about and generated his arrest with another man by the name of Hank Conner. (He's since been exonerated).

I continue to be pulled into the controversy brought by the lawsuits against Casey Nethercott initiated by the Hebbronville/Jim Hogg County, TX. D.A. and the Civil Rights Suit against Casey by Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center. I have not yet been deposed. Ragged Warrior has received only one copy of a deposition from a person who was not an eye-witness. At least as far as I know he hasn't. I know who the eye-witnesses are, and they have not been deposed.

Ragged Warrior had no reason to request this deposition or to even see it unless he agreed to have it mailed to him to "look over" for Morris Dees. I have also been contacted by Morris Dees, among other Federal agents. I have not been subpoened because I live out of the state of Texas, and have not cooperated to any degree.

I, the former California R.R. Coordinator, was chastised by David Cheney (aka: Ragged Warrior) and other coordinators for even illuminating the actions that were perpetrated by Jack Foote and Casey Nethercott, and was treated as if I was making things up at the time because I could not talk about how I KNEW without hurting others. Now he claims he finally believes what I tried to inform all of the R.R. coordinators back in the spring.

If any of you want further information that I can freely talk about at this time, please e-mail me. I am sick of Mr. Cheney portraying himself as the one and only person that has all the information about what happened. He was respectfully asked to refrain from talking about depositions as a courtesy to those being forced into testifying and we still don't understand why he was given a copy of the one witness's deposition. Many people wanted nothing to do with testifying, but have been forced to by subpoena. The less said about their forced involvement the better. Ragged Warrior (Dave Cheney), is not one of the witnesses to anything at the property in question and must be volunteering information without a subpoena.

Casey Nethercott was one of my California members (newly joined)and put his home up for bond, hence his freedom to return to our state after his release on 4/19/03. He is currently being sued for the beating of a lone/unarmed Mexican and the hitting of a Salvadorian. He was just arrested by the Federal Authorities for firearm violations since he is a felon, a fact that escaped me prior to his leaving for Operation Falcon where the incidents took place. Those, with true military backgrounds and experiences were not comfortable with Casey early on, and felt Jack should have removed him from the operation immediately. Jack did not. Jack liked him and his trained dog. Jack's lack of experience and ability to do this kind of work was readily apparent to those more experienced in covert apprehensions.

I suggest noone support this group. It is heading for a meltdown, and not because they are a patriotic group just wanting to help landowners. Jack and Casey put this one landowner in a horrible position and still have not made any form of amends to this gentleman. Instead, they have become more militant in their operations. There isn't a knowing landowner around that wants R.R. on their property now.

Glenn Spencer, on the other hand, has quite a reputable effort going on down at the border if anyone would like to help him. Just know he allows no racist militant Christian Identity types (as I now believe Jack is a part of) and does background checks. www.americanpatrol.com

This is going to get uglier before it's over. I don't recommend supporting any groups except Glenn Spencer's right now. I understand that Chris Simcox's group is also quietly aligned with Jack Foote. You decide.

Just know that we all want illegal immigration stopped. We all want a moratorium on legal immigration also. But there is a wrong way and a right way to be successful. Jack Foote is a martyr waiting for his fight and does not give a damn about anybody. So, if there is any new R.R. member on this site, you don't know what the hell you're involved in.
And for the record: R.R. had coordinator's in: CA, AZ, NM, TX, OR, WA, IL, GA, VA, CO, and an INT'L. chapter. There was possibly one other state represented, but can't seem to think of any others. Many of these states only had one member, their coordinator.

R.R. needs to be disbanded before they hurt the legitimate groups doing positive work at the border and within the interior. (Terry Anderson Show, CCIR, Sachem Quality of Life, Project USA, Numbers USA, FAIR, American Patrol, etc.)

[PRND21]

Good post. Keep fighting the good fight.

[raggedwarrior]

Ragged Warrior claims in his Post that he has seen the depositions of witnesses to the beating of a lone Mexican. This has to be either a lie or stated incorrectly. <.p>

My mistake. I do have copies but you are right. They are not eyewitness. I apologize to the readers of FR for my overzealousness. Dees mailed me the depositions as a courtesy. He had called me to ask what I knew about Foote and Op Falcon. I couldn't tell him anything he didn't already know. He told me in that conversation that he had eyewitnesses to Foote and Nethercott beating a Mexican and that the man was in a coma.

I, the former California R.R. Coordinator, was chastised by David Cheney (aka: Ragged Warrior) and other coordinators for even illuminating the actions that were perpetrated by Jack Foote and Casey Nethercott

That is not true. We chastised you for not cooperating when we were trying to get Foote to answer our questions and ignoring our requests to hold off on airing it until WE HAD those facts to present to our members. You showed a blatant disregard for our getting the facts and seemed intent on making a shambles of our inquiry. You tried to take control of the inquiry and in doing so helped Foote got out of answering our questions. You seemed to want to be the one in the spotlight telling the world. That is the truth of the matter and you know it. Ans if you can't recall it that way, I have the transscripts in my file to remind you.

I am sick of Mr. Cheney portraying himself as the one and only person that has all the information about what happened. He was respectfully asked to refrain from talking about depositions as a courtesy to those being forced into testifying

I am not acting as though I am the only one with the info. I am trying to warn people to steer clear of RR. All I have gotten in return for my concern, though, is diatribe like yours. Only one person asked me to refrain from speaking on the subject and I obliged him only to find that YOU had already been on the internet telling all. Again, in the spotlight, telling the world. I can understand that you are angry that I informed him of your act. However, I didn't want him thinking I had broken my word to him when he heard that what he had told me in confidence was already being aired. I still have not told anyone of my conversation with him.

Ragged Warrior (Dave Cheney), is not one of the witnesses to anything at the property in question and must be volunteering information without a subpoena.

Correct, I'm not one of the witnesses. I never claimed to be. I'm passing along what I know about Foote to inform people of the danger of being associated with him. I have volunteered no info to anyone except the public who have a need to know that danger. Surely you are aware of the amount of support that RR has and that without the facts being aired that support will increase. People MUST have the facts to make a sound decision. Your posts on other sites indicate that you want to be the one doing all the telling. In the spotlight again, right?

Glenn Spencer, on the other hand, has quite a reputable effort going on down at the border if anyone would like to help him.

Interesting that you would say that considering your previous statement about him to me. Have you forgotten what you told me?

I understand that Chris Simcox's group is also quietly aligned with Jack Foote.

By golly! You're in the spotlight, telling the world! I believe that Foote has sent two men to infiltrate Simcox' group. The two tried to involve me in a wild scheme using that group for intel purposes. But as for Simcox, I don't think you're correct. I CAN say that some members of the group make attacks on me just as you are doing. Hmmm?

So you'll know, I called anyone I thought could help keep an eye out for Casey when he missed his arraignment because I knew he had made threats against you and I did not want them carried out. I don't care much for you but still didn't want to see you hurt. I even called LB to make sure you were aware of the situation. Maybe I shouldn't have bothered?

I am well aware of your dislike of me. I don't really care. You showed that you couldn't control yourself on several occasions and my calling you on it has caused your disdain for me. Your attempt at establishing another group failed because of that lack of control. Your lack of self-control made Foote look good when you called in to Stadtmiller's show and used a false identity. That lack of self-control disrupted our inquiry. You have the potential to be a good leader. But, you need to learn self-control.

ABA is NOT an off-shoot of Ranch Rescue. It is group of people who saw the evil that pervaded Ranch Rescue and formed to do the work we had envisioned doing with RR. Don't try to tie us in to RR in ANY way simply because you couldn't get us to go along with you and you killed your group before it even got started. You sound like Foote. You are attacking me because I told you that you were wrong in your actions. You still are.

[NewRomeTacitus]

Good Lord! You guys sound like the founders before the Constitutional Convention with their splitting fine points of procedure. Unlike the British of that time this Aztlan crowd will only use this rift to stuff more illegals down our gullet and open up legal loopholes to further erode our sovereignty.
The real crime here is our Federal government’s claim to have total jurisdiction over illegal immigration while doing almost nothing about it, compelling citizens such as you to shore up the gap.
Agree to disagree and officially file a joint suit against the Feds for failure to protect. That hot potato will be tossed to higher courts until it has to be dealt with.

[TLI]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

You can't answer the question because there there is a rather large foot in your mouth?

[TLI]

The real crime here is our Federal government's claim to have total jurisdiction over illegal immigration while doing almost nothing about it, compelling citizens such as you to shore up the gap.

Absolutely. The totality of the fed non-enforcement (or any real attempt to prevent) of an ongoing INVASION is suspicious in it's glaringly obvious absence. I am of the opinion that the fed wants incidences such as this to occur. This would provide "justification" of further erosion of American citizens rights to defend themselves in the form of even more "laws" that protect the "rights" of the criminal invaders. I would antisipate any effort by a property owner to rid themselves of this pestilence will soon be classified as a "hate crime" (hello thought police thugs) and declare total federal jurisdiction over any interaction between a criminal invader and an American Citizen.... oops, looks like they are doing that now.

Agree to disagree and officially file a joint suit against the Feds for failure to protect. That hot potato will be tossed to higher courts until it has to be dealt with.

"suit against the Feds for failure to protect."

Interesting concept, "failure to protect." Is there such a responsability on the part of the fed?

TLI

[libertylass]

Currently I'm not involved in any activism, but will pick up later. Ragged Warrior (or is this his wife that I'm actually responding to here) has a twisted time line for events. Several items in this piece are completely inaccurate. But, this is classic Ragged Warrior attack mode to anything he does not agree with. Please check out his post on AR15 and see how he was treated there.

1) My losing control? Even Ragged Warrior's wife could not understand why he pulled me out of an AOL chat between Coordinator's when we were confronting Jack. Other members were instant messaging me with their questions as to why I was removed from the chat. R.W. then childishly left the chat unmoderated to sulk offline.

Jack DID NOT want to be in that chat at all....he used whatever was available to make a quick get-away. If YOU look back at that chat you'll see that D.S. was also aggressively questioning J.Foote in tandem with me. Why? Because we had the most information. However, you chose to remove me. Your call, I guess. But you continue to use this as your reason for Jack's leaving the chat. Ridiculous.

D.S. had to call Jack just to get him to join the chat in the first place. The last thing he wanted was to be confronted with questions he had no intention of answering. You know that as well as I. I could go into a completely disgusting example of your temper raging, but won't engage in your type of posting. By the way, I have the same chats printed out.

2) The reason I was thrust into the spotlight in the first place was because I was the only person Casey called from jail for a full month. I was Jack Foote's closest coordinator at the time and Casey was our California member. I was eagerly sought out for details by you, your wife, and all the other R.R. Coordinator's. Later, two other members became the focus of information. Now you continue to chastise me for "wanting the spotlight." Typical.

We have seen your postings on other sites and have kept our collective mouth's shut. I did not step in until I see horrendous statements such as the ones you initially posted here. No one knows the details of what happened more than I and a few others. You know of many of these details from me. Does this make me more important? Of course not. It just is......if you remember R.W. I was so exhausted during Casey's incarceration that I was driven to tears. You and your wife supported me during that period just so I could get through the difficulties of finding him legal help. Now you label me the "media seeker."

RW states here that I was all over the internet "telling all." Innacuracies again.

The only way D.S. and I got on Stadmiller's show was by giving a false name. I'd bet my life that Jack gave Stadmiller a head's up about who not to let on the show. My lack of control, as you call it, was my trying to get a word in edgewise. It was a one shot deal. Once I identified who I really was, Stadtmiller was angry and used it to discredit me instead of listening to the facts. But, I wouldn't have gotten on if I had use my real name. Jack never did realize it was D.S. who confronted him before I got on. At least we tried. I'm not sure you tried at all. I would do it again too.

I had been communicating for months with the former International Coordinator in an effort to get back monies owed us from Jack Foote. I told him about a particular person being deposed because he asked and I trusted him. The person being deposed was aware that this Coordinator was being given this information by me! BUT! This International Coordinator then contacted others without permission from myself or the deposed party. He contacted you Ragged Warrior, and another deposed person. It was not I, get your facts straight!

By the way, we have not heard a word from the former Int'l. Coordinator since he was confronted about running around with this private information. He knows he screwed up! Your timeline is just plain wrong again and your assessment of me "trying to be in the spotlight" is another foot in your mouth.

My posts on other sites, that you state is my attempt to be in the "spotlight", only solidifies your need to feel important. I don't post anything about R.R. unless I'm responding to your posts. And that's only lately! This is to make sure you stay accurate.

The group I had planned to organized after leaving R.R. was being set up by myself, and two other former members. We invited anyone from R.R. to join us except for a few more militant types. I was not interested in having some of the coordinator's because they found it difficult to abandon Jack and took their leaving way too slowly. We agreed to only allow the most integral to join the new group. The reason the group didn't go forward was because I was in the process of a large personal move from my home. I'm still working on this project, hence my inactivity in the immigration reform arena, except with my local groups. My group not forming had nothing to do with my "lack of control." Quite the contrary. If nothing else, I have disappeared into the horizon, with little or no contact with anyone from R.R. except for the Int'l. Coordinator that I no longer hear from.

By the way....I find it interesting that you ran with my idea to go public with your services. These ideas were generated by B.C., D.S. and myself and when we sent an e-mail inviting folks to join our new group (including you) it was stated that we planned to offer public services. Good idea. Glad we thought of it.

David: I knew Casey missed his 10/30 court date and received calls from G.M., D.S., among others. I appreciate efforts to protect my children and I, but don't want you using your attempts to help me as a feather in your cap after twisting truths about me. Anyway,I took precautions at this end. L.B. and I are dear friends, and he checks on me periodically anyway.

Like you, I want people to know that R.R. is a group to stay away from. I guess my telling folks that Chris has been aligned with Jack in the past is not something you want people to know. R.R. learned about Joe Sutton needing help this past Spring from Chris Simcox. I'm telling folks that I don't consider his group one that I would align myself with. Glenn Spencer's is the only group that is not exercising Federally inspected activities. I have no particularly negative information on Chris' group, but one to watch for if he continues to work with Jack Foote.

You know, in closing, your defensiveness about everyone attacking you gets old. Poor Ragged Warrior. Your last paragraph stating that "I sound like Jack", that my group got "killed" before it got started, and that I'm attacking you, is pitiful. You don't like me because I'm honest to a fault, and call you on your behavior. You do not like women telling you anything. You have a nasty temper and hold grudges forever. Your last sentence: "You are attacking me because I told you that you were wrong in your actions." I have NO idea what you have proven here, since I've just clarified more of your inconsistencies. Your information is always a bit skewed and off balance.

I think the reader can "feel" the difference in temperment here. I know they have on AR15.

NewRomeTacitus: You're right. This is why the group splintered. But, I had to take the time to defend the truth, again it seems. I'm done. :-)

[NewRomeTacitus]

Failure to protect it's own border. I tend to clip sentences in a rush to get the thought down, sorry.
I was thinking of the oath that the President, every member of Congress and the armed forces take, swearing to uphold the Constitution and protecting against enemies foreign and domestic. If you can find an immigration attorney who isn't already working for the enemies foreign and domestic I'm sure a good case can be made.

LibertyLass (great name!), thanks for adding another perspective. I sincerely hope everyone can work out their differences for the sake of the mission itself. Didn't get the part about some guy's AR-15. Many people don't know that Ruger Ranch Rifles are very affordable, lighter, easier to maintain and are almost as accurate as "Ol' Black & Ugly". If some joker is intimidating you pick one up.

[PRND21]

You can't answer the question because there there is a rather large foot in your mouth?

You make zero sense.
I stand by my earlier statement...Sounds familiar.