How To Be Born Again

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[xzins]

Oh come on now. Of course it's loaded....It's a theological question.

How can anything matter, Snerk, if everything is preprogrammed?

****BTW, is it true that what we do now is of no significance because it was all decided ahead of time and we cannot do anything to change anything?***

(Let's see, do I take a stab at that myself or do I turn to handlers? Hmmmmmm.....)

[Gamecock]

***Plus I grew up around lots of African-Americans, so I know how to 'talk trash' with the best of them.***


Is that so? Exactly what do you mean by that?

[Dahlseide]

xzins: BTW, is it true that what we do now is of no significance because it was all decided ahead of time and we cannot do anything to change anything?

"They" (you know the amorphous ones) ask that question quite frequently. Same style as Matthew 6:5 "If you are the Son of God throw yourself ...". See the reply Jesus gave. Good enough for me on this one.

Am I accusing any posters of being satan? No.

[snerkel]

Oh come on now. Of course it's loaded....It's a theological question.

How can anything matter, Snerk, if everything is preprogrammed?

****BTW, is it true that what we do now is of no significance because it was all decided ahead of time and we cannot do anything to change anything?***

(Let's see, do I take a stab at that myself or do I turn to handlers? Hmmmmmm.....)

Does God not control our destiny?

James 4:13-17

13 Come now, you who say, Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a city and spend a year there and carry on our business and make money.

14 Yet you do not know [the least thing] about what may happen tomorrow. What is the nature of your life? You are [really] but a wisp of vapor (a puff of smoke, a mist) that is visible for a little while and then disappears [into thin air].

15 You ought instead to say, If the Lord is willing, we shall live and we shall do this or that [thing].

16 But as it is, you boast [falsely] in your presumption and your self-conceit. All such boasting is wrong.

17 So any person who knows what is right to do but does not do it, to him it is sin.

Maybe Wesley's own words will help?

James 4:13 Come now, ye that say - As peremptorily as if your life were in your own hands. John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible

[xzins]

Does God control our destiny?

I don't see that being the same as "Does God DECIDE our destiny for us?" Do you?

Even in the passage from James that you quote James says, 17 So any person who knows what is right to do but does not do it, to him it is sin.

WHO is responsible for the decision to do what is right? Why it's each person, isn't it?

Our decisions MATTER. They are significant. They are consequential. AND we are responsible for them.

This is quite, quite different than saying that "God has DESTINED bad decisions."

The Lord willing, I will go to visit my family tomorrow on Christmas day. It is arrogant AND unfaithful for me to see life excluding the Lord. It is always a possibility that the Lord will have something else for me to do tomorrow. And I should be open to His urging.

That is quite a bit different than saying "destiny controls."

"Responsive to the Lord" or "controlled by destiny."

I choose "responsive to the Lord."

[xzins]

BTW, I forget...are you on west coast time (Pacific?)

If I drop off here shortly it's because it's 2 am and I'm beginning to wilt.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You continue to peck at the literal distinctions you hope will make your case for an unfettered human will.

Stand back, xzins. Take in the bigger picture.

Is God in heaven looking down on His creation and wondering anything?

No.

I was thinking of you and your son in the service today as I sent my son off in the car in the rain. What would we do if they were hurt? What would we be left with? It seems according to your way of thinking, God would either have ignored our prayers for our children's safety, or He would have been unable to protect them.

But from a reformed perspective, even the bad things happen according to God's holy will. If my son were hurt, it wouldn't be God's fault; but it would be His will.

And I think I could live with that.

Anyway, Merry Christmas to you both. May God watch over all our children and bring them home safe.

[xzins]

Same question to you: what time zone are you in? I'm up, drsteve's up, carep's up, and snerk was up.

Are religion posters ALL insomniacs?

Would it be God's will if my son were to die?

If you mean, this is the plot to the play that God wrote out ahead of time and here's how it ends for xzins' son, then "no." I don't buy that.

Instead, I think our decisions have consequences. I think my son joined the National Guard to defend his nation. I think if he dies it will be because he was willing to sacrifice his blood for his country. It would be to his credit. It would be a good, meaningful death.

God would allow him to make his decision, and in terms of my pain, God would be able to use the loss to bring about good.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Maybe we're all waiting up for the kids to go to sleep so Santa can finish his work and we can finally fall into bed. But you're really up late. It's only 12:40 here, west coast.

I just think it's easier to accept bad news when you know that God is in control of both the good and the bad.

Lots more prayers for your son's safe return.

Merry Christmas everyone.

[CARepubGal]

I drank coffee late tonight and I am waiting for the caffeine high to go away. :-)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

And doesn't He know the end from the beginning? Why do you draw lines?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Have a cookie and some milk.

Merry Christmas. No plans to fly to Paris, I take it?

[xzins]

Somehow I've gotten the impression you still have kids at home...maybe not.

But all of us (you included) teach them about drinking and driving, about reckless driving, etc.

Why do we do that, unless we think decisions have consequences?

Merry Christmas to you, too, DrE. This last few days has seen me angry with you. Forgiven. Forgotten. It's Christmas.

Good news of great joy which shall be for all peoples -- This day is born for you in the town of David, a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.

[xzins]

Ahhh, coffee....my favorite beverage.

The drink of choice by insomniacs everywhere.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

What about car accidents? No good could come from that. The only solace would be in knowing that God hadn't failed in His protection, but that it was God's will.

Santa's off to sleep now. Good night.

[xzins]

I draw lines because the Bible upholds reality and the consequences of decisions.

For that to be true then some of our other understandings must be wrong. That is why I've rejected both Arminianism and Calvinism.

Reality doesn't work unless those two are modified.

I have ideas on where to modify them, but they might need to be displaced altogether.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Amen.

[CARepubGal]

Not a chance! :-) Just staying in CA and hoping the Code Orange goes downwards quickly! Any excuse for cookies and milk is a good one :-)

[CARepubGal]

I love coffee and tea (especially in the Morning: they are vital!) Am off to sleep now. :-)

[xzins]

Car accidents are the result of getting inside pieces of metal that hurtle along at high rates of speed enough to kill a human being.

It is not a particularly good death, but it is still based on the decision to use a car. To the extent that God created the laws of physics, then those deaths are part of God's overall plan for this world. But I don't think God write's scripts where He knocks off characters in the play via car accidents. That wouldn't be very reassuring to me either.

It makes more sense for life to be real in its consequences, situations, and decisions.