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Our Glorious Gospel
Answers For Today ^ | Chuck Smith

Posted on 01/06/2004 6:08:05 PM PST by P-Marlowe

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To: Corin Stormhands
(although it does happen faster when Poop Pile is around)

its almost like theyre directionless


101 posted on 01/07/2004 11:15:48 AM PST by Revelation 911 (All cavinists will play with matches in glory)
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To: jude24; nobodysfool; P-Marlowe; xzins
CTD: the Calvinist insist that before a man can be saved, that the man meditate on all his past sins prior to salvation.

I've never heard that....

Well, Check this post. Not one member of the swarm has denounced it.

102 posted on 01/07/2004 11:30:59 AM PST by connectthedots
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To: xzins
Romans 2: 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, ...

Calvinists do not like the concept of natural law, because with it, Total depravity must be error. If total Depravity is error, all of Calvinism must fall with the exception of the 'P'.

103 posted on 01/07/2004 11:36:26 AM PST by connectthedots
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To: xzins; P-Marlowe
So am I.
104 posted on 01/07/2004 11:40:32 AM PST by connectthedots
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To: CCWoody; xzins; P-Marlowe; Corin Stormhands
If sinful man doesn't even know what he needs, then how is it possible for him to seek what he needs in a sincere and faithful heart without there first being a change in his nature so that he can see what he needs?

The "If sinful man doesn't even know what he needs," is a false premise and cannot be supported by scriptural reference. In that the premise is false, any answer to the question is not reliable.

Like most dishonest people, you attempt to mislead people (and maybe even yourself) with faulty reasoning.

105 posted on 01/07/2004 11:51:42 AM PST by connectthedots
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To: xzins
So the calvinist view of total depravity allows for good to be in humans?

Is outward conformity to the law "good"?

106 posted on 01/07/2004 12:05:59 PM PST by jude24 ("Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything thats even REMOTELY true!" -- H. Simpson)
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To: jude24
Is outward conformity to the law "good"?

As opposed to 'bad'? Whatever happened to the Calvinist position that our outward acts reflect our hearts desires?

107 posted on 01/07/2004 12:12:49 PM PST by connectthedots
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To: xzins; Gamecock; drstevej
Therefore, God has done everything for Man A. ~ xzins Woody.

Vanity! Vanity! All is vanity!

This is euill among all that is done vnder the sunne, that there is one condition to all, and also the heart of the sonnes of men is full of euill, and madnes is in their heartes whiles they liue, and after that, they goe to the dead.
(Ecc 9:3 GB)
108 posted on 01/07/2004 12:26:55 PM PST by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: Corin Stormhands; xzins
***What's the verse Woody?***

Take your pick! I jus posted 3.

Woody.
109 posted on 01/07/2004 12:28:16 PM PST by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: Revelation 911
***LOL.....man, - you're going to get this place shut down for good***

Well, at least then, I won't have to contend against the Arminian cesspool of doctrinal filth on FR.

Woody.
110 posted on 01/07/2004 12:29:51 PM PST by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: CCWoody; Revelation 911; xzins; P-Marlowe
One of these days, the Lord will deliver me from the cesspool of Arminian manure in which they subject me in their futility. Until then, I will continue to post Scriptures and laugh at them for wallowing in doctrinal crap.

Nobody's stoppin' ya from pushin' "log off" pal.

111 posted on 01/07/2004 12:31:16 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (2003 Review www.wardsmythe.com)
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To: connectthedots; Corin Stormhands
***The "If sinful man doesn't even know what he needs," is a false premise and cannot be supported by scriptural reference. In that the premise is false, any answer to the question is not reliable.***

Corin Stormhands made the assertion. I was simply asking a question about his assertion. Perhaps you need to go have a nice holy huddle in some private place so you don't end up rebuking each other in your theological incompetence, O genius!!!

***Like most dishonest people, you attempt to mislead people (and maybe even yourself) with faulty reasoning.***

yada, yada, yada!

I hear that the "Jesus-on-a-Rope" soap is even good for washing yourself after a heady night of hustling with the lesbians. Perhaps then you will be able to get back to us by Saturday with some unanswered questions.

Woody.
112 posted on 01/07/2004 12:35:21 PM PST by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: CCWoody
So, in the picture, would the Holy Spirit be better used represented by the water the guy is using or the brush the guy is using?

Why it's the Trinity of the Gospel of Marlowe: Scrub brush, water, and the holy soap.

113 posted on 01/07/2004 12:37:06 PM PST by Gamecock (The Spirit of Piel is among us.)
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To: Corin Stormhands
Nice try. But in the verse provided it is God doing the washing, not the Semi-Pelagian Horde.
114 posted on 01/07/2004 12:39:18 PM PST by Gamecock (The Spirit of Piel is among us.)
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To: CCWoody; connectthedots
Yes, I made the assertion. And, as I made it, not as you twisted it Woody, it still stands.

Not that you could understand that.

1 Corinthians 2:14
115 posted on 01/07/2004 12:39:44 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (2003 Review www.wardsmythe.com)
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To: CCWoody
Knock it off woody.
116 posted on 01/07/2004 12:40:03 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Gamecock
Alls I was sayin' is that y'all don't need to be so skeered of soap. It's a good thing.
117 posted on 01/07/2004 12:42:06 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (2003 Review www.wardsmythe.com)
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To: Corin Stormhands
Corin,

I must applaud you for quoting that great Calvinist work, the Westmister Confession of Faith.
118 posted on 01/07/2004 12:43:36 PM PST by Gamecock (The Spirit of Piel is among us.)
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To: Corin Stormhands
***Nobody's stoppin' ya from pushin' "log off" pal.***

I'd also have to pretty much quit going to church as well.

So, since it cannot be avoided, I still contend against your doctrines. My reward is that I get to hear glorious stories about how God has enabled man to
_______(insert your favorite man boasting anthroprocentric "free will" filth here)__________
by you pleasant Arminians on FR.

I continue to serve in charity, knowing that the Lord is presently pleased to let the Arminians wallow. And, I continue to lovingly present scriptures and ask questions which they are unable to answer, trusting that, in a perfect time, the Lord will open their eyes to see the truth that it is not about them.

Woody.
119 posted on 01/07/2004 12:44:35 PM PST by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: nobdysfool; connectthedots
What in the world are you talking about?

Stand back! The man has a 170 I.Q. 'Tis enough that he is here!</great sarcasm>

120 posted on 01/07/2004 12:45:07 PM PST by Gamecock (The Spirit of Piel is among us.)
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To: Gamecock
Thanks for the applause. That was intentional. Do you see the point I'm trying to make?
121 posted on 01/07/2004 12:46:12 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (2003 Review www.wardsmythe.com)
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To: Corin Stormhands; connectthedots; xzins; P-Marlowe
***Yes, I made the assertion.***

And ctd spanked it pretty hard! Like I said, perhaps now would be a good time for a holy huddle of "free willers" so that you can get your playbook straightened out. It doesn't look good when you spank each other.

Woody.
122 posted on 01/07/2004 12:47:19 PM PST by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: CCWoody
So, since it cannot be avoided...

You got scripture that says you gotta be on FReeRepublic?

And, you wouldn't know charity if it bit you on the butt.

123 posted on 01/07/2004 12:48:13 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (2003 Review www.wardsmythe.com)
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To: Revelation 911
He is with us in spirit!
124 posted on 01/07/2004 12:49:52 PM PST by Gamecock (The Spirit of Piel is among us.)
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To: Corin Stormhands
Alls I was sayin' is that y'all don't need to be so skeered of soap. It's a good thing.

I don't need no soap. I have the blood of Christ.

125 posted on 01/07/2004 12:51:15 PM PST by Gamecock (The Spirit of Piel is among us.)
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To: CCWoody; Corin Stormhands; xzins; P-Marlowe
Well, at least then, I won't have to contend against the Arminian cesspool of doctrinal filth on FR.

hey - ya know whats funny ?

neither does popesqueal LOL

126 posted on 01/07/2004 12:52:02 PM PST by Revelation 911 (All cavinists will play with matches in glory)
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To: Corin Stormhands
In all seriousness, I don't. Try again.
127 posted on 01/07/2004 12:52:22 PM PST by Gamecock (The Spirit of Piel is among us.)
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To: Gamecock
***Scrub brush, water, and the holy soap.***

Where is the rubber duckie?

128 posted on 01/07/2004 12:56:50 PM PST by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: CCWoody; connectthedots; xzins; P-Marlowe
ctd said there was no scriptural basis for what I'd said. I'd already admitted that I couldn't proof text it.

I don't get the problem with the concept that all men seek after something. Sin is the "fulfillment" of the desire for pleasure.

Men seek after pleasure. Pleasure will not satisfy. That's why perverts never get enough sex. That's why alcoholics never get enough alcohol.

The sex and alcohol don't meet the need they have within.

Nothing will meet that need but Christ.

Woody, the only way I can see that you would have a problem with that is if you say the unregenerate do not need a Savior.

Is that what your saying?
129 posted on 01/07/2004 12:58:31 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (2003 Review www.wardsmythe.com)
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To: Gamecock
I don't need no soap. I have the blood of Christ.

Isn't that what the Malachi scripture is alluding to?

130 posted on 01/07/2004 1:00:00 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (2003 Review www.wardsmythe.com)
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To: Gamecock
See my #129 below (or above)...
131 posted on 01/07/2004 1:01:14 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (2003 Review www.wardsmythe.com)
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To: Gamecock
He is with us in spirit!

Beano helps

132 posted on 01/07/2004 1:03:54 PM PST by Revelation 911 (All cavinists will play with matches in glory)
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To: Corin Stormhands
Yup, but not according to Marlowe's spritual guru, Chuck Smith:

The pastor responded, "If soap is so good, why isn't everyone clean?" Does the fact of dirty people testify against the value of soap? No. It works, but you have to apply it..

133 posted on 01/07/2004 1:10:48 PM PST by Gamecock (The Spirit of Piel is among us.)
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To: Gamecock
Like I said, alls I was sayin' was that there's no need to be skeered of soap...
134 posted on 01/07/2004 1:14:09 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (2003 Review www.wardsmythe.com)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Hey OP, thanks for the allegory.

I know you are trying to help me understand and I appreciate the effort.

Where I am still lacking in understanding is related to my nature. My sinful nature.

In your example, before my terrible accident it was my nature to breath. I required oxygen. After your choice to bring me back to life it still remains my nature to breath.

Would a better example be that I am a fish and as such my nature requires that I live in the ocean and breath water.

Then you come along and for your good pleasure or glory you decide to change my nature and give me lungs instead.

Now you throw me back in the ocean and I'm drown.

Then by your grace you decide to throw me on land and clear the water from my lungs. You choose to bring me back to life.

My nature has changed. I still need oxygen to breath but can no longer by my nature extract that oxygen from the water and now must live on land and breath air in order to live.

Could you restate your allegory using this fish or something similar which shows my changed nature?
135 posted on 01/07/2004 1:19:46 PM PST by PFKEY
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To: Corin Stormhands; connectthedots; Gamecock; Jean Chauvin; drstevej
***ctd said there was no scriptural basis for what I'd said. I'd already admitted that I couldn't proof text it.***

Do you often have doctrinal beliefs which have "no scriptural basis"? And, do you often have doctrinal beliefs for which you have no aparent good reason to so believe?

***Sin is the "fulfillment" of the desire for pleasure.***

You sound so much like an ascetic gnostic its not even funny.

Does this mean that because sex is fun and pleasurable it is a sin?

Perhaps now would be a good time for you to go back and rethink your doctrine.

***Is that what your saying?***

I have already said that man "needs" to glorify God.
You said that man has a need to glorify God.

If you can't see the difference between the two statements, then you need to go back to school and pick up some remedial work in English. Or, better yet, you have ctd "SupraGenius" on your team. Ask him, if you can tear him away from his off FR activities. We have tried, in vain, to get him to answer a few simple questions.

Woody.
136 posted on 01/07/2004 1:19:48 PM PST by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: Revelation 911; Gamecock
***Beano helps***

Only if you are barking out Arminian doctrines!

Woody.
137 posted on 01/07/2004 1:23:38 PM PST by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: PFKEY
Hey OP, thanks for the allegory. I know you are trying to help me understand and I appreciate the effort. Where I am still lacking in understanding is related to my nature. My sinful nature. In your example, before my terrible accident it was my nature to breath. I required oxygen. After your choice to bring me back to life it still remains my nature to breath. Would a better example be that I am a fish and as such my nature requires that I live in the ocean and breath water. Then you come along and for your good pleasure or glory you decide to change my nature and give me lungs instead. Now you throw me back in the ocean and I'm drown. Then by your grace you decide to throw me on land and clear the water from my lungs. You choose to bring me back to life. My nature has changed. I still need oxygen to breath but can no longer by my nature extract that oxygen from the water and now must live on land and breath air in order to live. Could you restate your allegory using this fish or something similar which shows my changed nature?

No need for a new allegory. Just go back to my original example.

Your nature was "dead", and therefore you did not breathe. (breath here corresponding to belief)

Your nature was then changed to "alive", and therefore you breathed.(breath here corresponding to belief)

Clear enough??

138 posted on 01/07/2004 1:29:43 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: Gamecock
Have you?
139 posted on 01/07/2004 1:31:24 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe
Used you ridiculous rope soap? Grow up.

I am washed in Christ. Why don't you read some Jack Chick Tracts and look for your next earth shattering, two-bit, non-Biblical revelation.
140 posted on 01/07/2004 1:37:26 PM PST by Gamecock (The Spirit of Piel is among us.)
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To: CCWoody; connectthedots; xzins; Revelation 911; P-Marlowe
Perhaps now would be a good time for you to go back and rethink your doctrine.

Actually Woody, I do that a lot. And perhaps I often speculate outloud. It's a tried and true method that has worked for centuries..."What about this?"..."No?"..."Then what about this?"

But you, rather than wanting to talk through a particular concept just have to be a smartass about all of it.

How many times have I said it before? You guys could have these conversations without being jerks. I know you could.

But you won't.

So don't bother. Go wash yourself of the "Arminian stench"...no wait.

You can't do that either.

141 posted on 01/07/2004 1:40:16 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (2003 Review www.wardsmythe.com)
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To: Gamecock
I am washed in Christ.

How do you know?

Objectively, how can I know that you have met whatever requirements there are to be elect?

On what basis do you claim to have been washed in Christ?

142 posted on 01/07/2004 1:41:32 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Gamecock; Corin Stormhands
The pastor responded, "If soap is so good, why isn't everyone clean?" Does the fact of dirty people testify against the value of soap? No. It works, but you have to apply it.. ~ cite from article Woody.
143 posted on 01/07/2004 1:56:21 PM PST by CCWoody (Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory,...)
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To: CCWoody; Gamecock; xzins
I'm done with you Woody. Not reading anymore of your posts. Stench to you that I am, that should make you happy.

Gamecock has been quite civil in his disagreement. You could learn something.

But we all know you won't.

xzins was right. There's no use talking to you.

Rant on. You have nothing worthwhile to say.
144 posted on 01/07/2004 1:59:27 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (2003 Review www.wardsmythe.com)
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To: Corin Stormhands; jude24; P-Marlowe
There is no verse that says, "sinful man doesn't know what he needs." At least no one has posted one.

Therefore, it is a derived doctrine, not an explicit one.

It is derived from verses that say man is totally sinful and cannot please God. It does not necessarily follow that "sinful man doesn't know what he needs."

It possibly does, but not of necessity. There is a verse that says that men can "by nature" do the law of God within their hearts. Paul says the law of God is "just, good, and holy."

145 posted on 01/07/2004 2:09:19 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!)
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To: Corin Stormhands
toljaso...:>)
146 posted on 01/07/2004 2:16:12 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!)
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To: jude24; xzins
So, then, are you saying that your definition of total depravity allows that humans can behave with outward morality in accordance with the law?

As far as I'm aware, that's consistent with the historical Calvinist position.

Jude is correct. This is one reason I prefer the term "radical depravity." Natural man is not as bad as he could be. Not all natural men are pedophiles, cannibals. or mass murderers... Most love their wives and children. Yet, every aspect of the natural man's character is affected by sin, including the will and the intellect. Most importantly, the natural man is a rebel who wants to be God. This is one of the reason that the LDS offer of being a god on another planet is attractive to many. It is "Battlestar Galactica" theology... On the series the "spirit beings" told the humans "As you are we once were; as we are you may become." Just what a natural man wants to hear.

147 posted on 01/07/2004 2:57:37 PM PST by RochesterFan
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To: lockeliberty; drstevej; CCWoody; RnMomof7; Frumanchu; Gamecock; Jean Chauvin; ...
If you were blind but then miraculously received eyesight from God, would the seeing be yours or Gods? Would you bitch to God about forcing you to see?

To be logically consistent, they'd have to, if it was obvious (and it would be in this example) that it was God who did it and not man. That's the one question I've never seen any Arminian ever answer. Even if God DID "force" a man to be saved, what would be so bad about that? When you consider the benefits of salvation against the alternative, how could it be a bad thing? But they act like little children, and whine and cry "But I wanted to do it! It's not fair! I wanted to do it! MOMMY!!! God's not being fair! He saved me but I wanted to do it!" (Stamps foot and stalks off in a huff)

148 posted on 01/07/2004 4:02:03 PM PST by nobdysfool (All True Christians will be Calvinists in Glory)
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To: connectthedots; CCWoody; lockeliberty; ksen; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Jean Chauvin; ...
Well, Check this post. Not one member of the swarm has denounced it.

Oh, I see...if we don't do a pre-emptive critique of every last thing any Calvinist or Calvinist-friendly writer has ever written, said, or published, then if you happen to find something like this, you automatically assume that we must - defacto - believe it, teach it, and hold to it as inviolable doctrine? Your motivation in posting it is not to gain knowledge, or clear up a misunderstanding, your motivation is to use it as a club to bash Calvinists, no matter how much we may try to clarify or even tell you that we don't hold to that. You won't hear it, because you think you have trumped us with that. What an utterly stupid attitude!

I'm laughing at the "superior" intellect.

And just for the record, I don't know of any other Calvinist who would teach that, because it is inconsistent with Calvinist teaching. One might meditate on his past sins, AFTER he is saved, but never before.

149 posted on 01/07/2004 4:15:19 PM PST by nobdysfool (All True Christians will be Calvinists in Glory)
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To: xzins; jude24; P-Marlowe; connectthedots
Therefore, it is a derived doctrine, not an explicit one.

I am not even sure it's a "doctrine" xzins. But, in spite of the way it's been perverted this afternoon, this is what I'm trying to say:

No man is complete without God.

All sinful (unregenerate, natural) men are incomplete. There is a void within.

Sinful man seeks to fill that void.

Sinful man does not know ~or admit~ he needs God, so he seeks other things to fill that void ~ sex, drugs, alcohol, stamp collecting, FreeRepublic ~ whatever.

It is human nature to want to be or have something. What that something is varies with each individual.

Some of those things may bring temporal pleasure or fulfillment. But they will never fill the void that is within all men.

Only God can.

So I would say that the chief and highest end of every man is to glorify God, and fully to enjoy him forever.

Not all will.

Is that really such a bizarre concept?

150 posted on 01/07/2004 4:17:55 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (2003 Review www.wardsmythe.com)
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