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Iím Tired of Neo-Cons Being Tired of Conservatives (Rant alert)
Aw, Shucks southern News and Links ^ | 29 January 2004 | Jeff Adams

Posted on 02/02/2004 6:32:01 AM PST by robowombat

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To: robowombat
"The neo-cons that control the Republican Party today are hoping that rank and file conservatives will mindlessly vote for Bush, keeping their heads in the sand, until it’s too late and they’ve developed a new constituency to keep them in power."

I have said this since 2001, and it is exactly their game plan. They are not prepared for, nor do they want a massive walk out of conservatives. But it is the ONLY thing that will save us, and then only maybe as we don't know how much his pandering may pay off.

51 posted on 02/02/2004 7:41:27 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Marie
Those treaties are not dead until they are formally killed by a Senate rejection.
52 posted on 02/02/2004 7:41:45 AM PST by ExpandNATO
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To: MJY1288
Just as impressive as your mindless drivil

1) Drivel, is spelled with an "e".

2) I posted actual points... rebutt them if you can.

53 posted on 02/02/2004 7:42:05 AM PST by OWK
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To: OWK
LOL, And you've been a member of DU how long?
54 posted on 02/02/2004 7:42:43 AM PST by MJY1288 (VOTE CONSTITUTION PARTY IF YOU WANT A DEMOCRAT)
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To: OWK
No. I'm telling you to look at your choices. Bush is one,
the Democrat is the other. The question you've got to ask
is which choice is best for the country. I realize you
have complaints about Bush. Great, fine. I understand. You don't like his programs. We get the point. Now answer the question.

How will a democrat save you?
55 posted on 02/02/2004 7:43:04 AM PST by Sockdologer (Yeeeagh!)
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To: OWK
Heh. You dodge questions like a Clinton. Perhaps you do belong in the donkey camp.
56 posted on 02/02/2004 7:44:21 AM PST by Sockdologer (Yeeeagh!)
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To: OWK
Wow, the first thing you've posted that makes any sense. Thanks for correcting my typo
57 posted on 02/02/2004 7:44:24 AM PST by MJY1288 (VOTE CONSTITUTION PARTY IF YOU WANT A DEMOCRAT)
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To: robowombat
Pure-as-the-wind-driven-snow Conservatives have become all-or-nothing losers. Now that it's time to govern, they don't know what to do.
58 posted on 02/02/2004 7:44:55 AM PST by Tricorn
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To: OWK
So we'll vote for the F'n Ketchup man and get a leftist supreme court for the next 30 years. Yeah, that'll show em! :p
59 posted on 02/02/2004 7:48:09 AM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: TomServo
The South is NOT all like that website. There are a few crusty folks down there who are still reliving the Civil War but most people in the South realize that those times are over and they don't want them back.

Don't even try to claim that represents the south of today. It doesn't.
60 posted on 02/02/2004 7:48:29 AM PST by Columbine (Bush '04 - Owens '08)
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To: Sockdologer; MJY1288
You guys are too funny for words.

Anyone who dares to question the new-left look of the GOP, must be a democrat.

What a pantload.

61 posted on 02/02/2004 7:49:26 AM PST by OWK
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To: Constantine XIII
So we'll vote for the F'n Ketchup man and get a leftist supreme court for the next 30 years.

Exactly man...

If it weren't for conservative stalwarts like Souter on the court, who knows where we'd be.

62 posted on 02/02/2004 7:51:23 AM PST by OWK
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To: OWK
No. Anyone who has to dodge his questions because he can't defend his argument and only has one stock line and tosses his votes to the Democrats might just as well be part of
the donkey party.

You give your vote to them, you might as well be one.
And maybe you prefer to be. That's your choice,
but don't come here expecting respect for it.

The "AAAH Bush betrayed me, so I'll help a Democrat win!"
stance is both silly and hypocritical - and worse when
repeated over and over.
63 posted on 02/02/2004 7:52:21 AM PST by Sockdologer (Yeeeagh!)
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To: OWK
Besides not voting for the President, what else do you plan to do to change the current culture in this country... (I mean besides posting on Free Republic)

IMO, you are missing the forest for the trees. You believe that a vote for the top of the ticket is all that is needed to send a message that your wishes are being ignored in politics.

Well, the reason your demands are not being heeded is that you lack the political clout to have them heeded. And that is your fault!

Right now, the current political culture in America is that people(those who vote - not those who carp) believe they have a right to entitlements.

You are advocating a change at the top as a solution to your political problems.... I believe a change at the top, whether it be Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Constitutional Party, Green Party, Tightwad Party, or You Ain't Getting Another Dime From Me Party will not solve a thing. The government will continue to expand... the entitlements will continue to roll. FDR started a huge tidal wave 66 years ago... and America likes the ride.

What is needed is a grass root reeducation of the American electorate. After living off the government "tit" for so long... they need to be given reasons why it is, in the long term, detrimental to both the country and themselves.

If you can't vote for Bush because of legitimate reasons... and you are gleefully hoping that the conservative base will desert him to "teach him a lesson," know that you will have sent a message alright! Because Kerry or some other Democrat will be placed in office... placed there by the "center" (who actually determines elections, sorry but true). And the people's message will be to keep the entitlement training rolling if you want to stay in office.

In Ohio, Howard Metzenbaum only had to run one ad on TV during the last week of any election. It can be summed up like this: "That mean ole conservative is going to take away your social security." Worked like a charm. The people (and they are the ones that matter) don't want their social security taken away. They want their Medicare. They want their prescription drugs... and they will vote for those politicians who will give it to them. Conservative after conservative died in Ohio. Finally, we have two centrist Republicans... lesson learned. Keep the entitlements flowing and you keep your seat.

When I was young, one of my jobs was to rid the yard of dandelions. I thought that I could just mow them down. But they grew back, and they had multiplied. So, I had to go to each one... stick a tool in the ground and pull the dandelion out by the root. That took care of the problem.

Same thing here. Until the "conservatives" who scream for accountability begin the reeducation of America to the fiscal disaster that we are facing, this country will not stop their feeding frenzy on public money. If you can make the electorate understand that their continual voting themselves money out of the public treasury is leading to the slow death of America, you may finally get a politician who will stand for conservative policies... and the people to vote him into office. But until "conservatives" are willing and ready to begin the reeducation process, you will get no sympathy from me when you vote your third party candidate or stay at home and deliver this country back to the democrats. (Yes, I know...spare me your tirade about there not being any difference between the two... if you can't tell the difference between the two...I have to doubt just how politically perceptive you are.)

64 posted on 02/02/2004 7:52:29 AM PST by carton253 (I have no genius at seeming.)
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To: OWK
The difference is that some see the bottom line and some can't

It will be either Bush or a Democrat. There is no magical third candidate who may take the White House.

If you think the Democrat is better then cut the pretense and just have guts enough to vote for him straight up.
65 posted on 02/02/2004 7:53:11 AM PST by Columbine (Bush '04 - Owens '08)
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To: Agnes Heep
excellent post...
66 posted on 02/02/2004 7:54:24 AM PST by carton253 (I have no genius at seeming.)
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To: OWK
I'll be here when you're gone.

Heh... Ain't that the truth. There must be a couple of you, there is no way one person could stand this for so long. :)
67 posted on 02/02/2004 7:55:12 AM PST by Daus
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To: Sockdologer
Anyone who has to dodge his questions...

I put out about a dozen points on which I disagree with the president (there are certainly many more).

And your response was to indicate that the democrats would have done these things too, so it isn't really all that bad.

How exactly am I dodging your questions?

68 posted on 02/02/2004 7:55:37 AM PST by OWK
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To: Columbine
The South is NOT all like that website.

And just how is that website, anyway?

There are a few crusty folks down there who are still reliving the Civil War but most people in the South realize that those times are over and they don't want them back.

And what times were those? If you mean slavery, you're damned right we don't want it back. And if you'll do a little reading on that website, you'll see the same.

Don't even try to claim that represents the south of today. It doesn't

And don't you go painting everybody as the KKK who flys the Flags of our Heritage.

69 posted on 02/02/2004 7:56:10 AM PST by TomServo ("Why does the most evil man in the world live in a Stuckeys?")
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To: Daus
HEY!!

How the hale are ya Daus?

70 posted on 02/02/2004 7:56:13 AM PST by OWK
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To: cinFLA
I'm not a Bush hater and neither are some of these other folks. If you're going to talk about balance how about mentioning big spending and not doing much of anything to keep the border to Mexico closed? There are two sides to this story, even though I believe Bush is a better alternative than any Dim.

There's no need to jump up and down and call people who have rational arguements liberal democrap lovers just because they do not agree with your opinion 100%.
71 posted on 02/02/2004 7:57:16 AM PST by cjshapi
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To: Columbine
It will be either Bush or a Democrat.

And therefore people best just shut up and take whatever steaming pile of leftist feces that Bush sends their way with a smile and a thank you... Right? Is that how it works?

72 posted on 02/02/2004 7:58:01 AM PST by OWK
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To: OWK
Any person claiming to be conservative who is not motivated to keep the Democrats out of power after knowing EXACTLY what they will do with it if given the opportunity, has a real problem with reality. They're either political martyrs, have not been paying attention to what the Democrat candidates have been promising they will do if elected, or are ignoring (or are totally or willfully ignorant of) the history of the last seventy years, or are incredibly dense or insane, or have a morbid desire to toil their lives away in the misery of a Liberal Hell! Any person who would support a third party candidate who has absolutely zero chance of winning even one state or even a single electoral vote is so politically naive and devoid of the brainpower that The Creator so graciously endowed upon them, that it's not even worth wasting pixels on.

Know who said this? For this and more, just check out the link: The Rest of The Story

73 posted on 02/02/2004 7:58:35 AM PST by arasina (So there.)
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To: OWK
There's a questioning policy and working to change minds is an excellent and admirable goal. I'm with you 100% there.

It is this method of throwing out the baby with the bath water that I disagree with. No one else has the sort of funds and organization to build a new party from the ground up in 10 months. Unless you can get something like 60-70% of Pubbies and their $$$ to change sides to the CP, LP, or whatever, no pleasant outcome is possible.

If change was so ablsolutely necessary, it should have been done over the last three years. It is too late to move now. Prepare for 2008, when you will likely have HRC running on the Dem ticket, who's weak popularity with everyone that isn't a leftist will enable a third party to have a fighting chance.

Do split the unity of conservatives now will only lead to our defeat, and possibly the deaths of millions. This is no exageration. You know what all of the Democratic candidates intend to do to our defense budget, homeland security, and foreign policy. The war on terror will come to our shores, and we will have no one else to blame.

Feel free to criticise the President. Mass email him, write letters to Congress, protest on the street corners. Tell everyone who will listen why the path of freedom is the best for all people. These tactics exploit the strengths of fora like Free Republic. THIS is our power. THIS is where true change will come from. Attemting some sort of political revolution will only lead to our downfall.

A house divided against itself cannot stand.




74 posted on 02/02/2004 7:58:44 AM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: OWK
Exactly man...

You lost with that one — bigtime. It looks like you've joined the ranks of the Perpetually Disgruntled Kerry Conservatives.

75 posted on 02/02/2004 7:58:56 AM PST by Consort
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To: OWK
Take heart. In 2008, the post-boomer voters will have a clear majority for the first time in our lives (122 million to 109 million boomer and older voters). No one yet has pretended to represent them.

This generational shift is ripe for two new parties to rise up and replace both the boomer-controlled Dems and Republicans.

And the younger voters are angry enough to cut government spending and taxes to the bone, close the borders, and take whatever extreme measures they think will best ensure the survival of themselves and the nation.

Move over Boomers

76 posted on 02/02/2004 7:59:07 AM PST by meadsjn
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To: Columbine
I was expecting the KKK to rise up out of the shadows.

How nice. So we know equate celebrating Southern heritage with racism? Shucks.net is a good website with good information for those of us that care about our heritage

Here’s something else to consider: Even if the House of Representatives kill this amnesty plan of Bush’s, and the establishment Republicans wink at conservatives and traditionalists saying, “Hey, we knew it wouldn’t pass, we just wanted to influence Hispanic votes by acting like we care,” don’t buy it. If the plan goes down to defeat this summer, once Bush gets re-elected in November you can bet it will be back with a vengeance, and the House and Senate will pass the amnesty plan

Unfortunately and what's disconcerting is we have heard the same thing about other bills. They wouldn't pass or would be declared unconstitutional. And suprisingly enough, depending on how you look at, they weren't

77 posted on 02/02/2004 7:59:15 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice.)
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To: meadsjn
Yours is another name I've not seen in some years.

Good to see you.

78 posted on 02/02/2004 8:00:13 AM PST by OWK
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To: Constantine XIII
It is this method of throwing out the baby with the bath water that I disagree with.

When it's 98% polluted bathwater.. it's time to start wondering where the baby went.

79 posted on 02/02/2004 8:01:58 AM PST by OWK
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To: robowombat
Great post.

>>>"As for me, I’ll be voting conservative, which means most likely the Constitution Party. I’m not throwing my vote away; Bush threw it away with everything he and the neo-cons have done for the last four years."

You may be right that it is better to support the Constitution Party rather than write in Tancredo or some other worthy Republican.

There's not a dimes worth of difference between the new Republican Party and the Democraps -- in the presidential election. The difference now only exists at the local level.

So feel free to support the national candidate of your choice (i.e. conservative). As you say, that probably is The Constitution Party. It certainly isn't the Libertarians.

If you stay home and not vote, then you only express 1/2 of your distaste. Voting for someone, even a write-in, sends the message to whatever conservative Republican leadership remains.

Again, it really doesn't matter if a Democrat or Bush gets in... you can't tell the difference. Yes, you can say look at the terrible things that Clinton did. In addition to the bad things (IRS files, Rubin bailouts, judge appointments) he also did some good things: no drunken spending. Both parties have good and bad things about them. That's the problem, there's no real difference anymore. We're picking gnats to find the difference at the national level.

The Republicans used to be the party of restraint. No more.

The best thing Bush can do is step aside and annoint Rumsfeld or Frist as the new presidential candidate.

I'd vote for Frist or Rumsfeld... but not Bush. He's a Democrat -- can't you see? Not a dimes worth of difference, as they say.

Hoppy
80 posted on 02/02/2004 8:02:23 AM PST by Hop A Long Cassidy
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Comment #81 Removed by Moderator

To: OWK
Uh, ahem, let me try this again. :p Yeah, I need to learn to use preview...
_________________

Questioning policies and working to change minds is an excellent and admirable goal. I'm with you 100% there.

It is this method of throwing out the baby with the bath water that I disagree with. No one else has the sort of funds and organization to build a new party from the ground up in 10 months. Unless you can get something like 60-70% of Pubbies and their $$$ to change sides to the CP, LP, or whatever, no pleasant outcome is possible.

If change were so ablsolutely necessary, it should have been done over the last three years. It is too late to move now. Prepare for 2008, when you will likely have HRC running on the Dem ticket, who's weak popularity with everyone that isn't a leftist will enable a third party to have a fighting chance.

To split the unity of conservatives now will only lead to our defeat, and possibly the deaths of millions. You are smart enough to know that this is no exageration. You know what all of the Democratic candidates intend to do to our defense budget, homeland security, and foreign policy. The war on terror will come to our shores, and we will have no one else to blame.

Feel free to criticise the President. Mass email him, write letters to Congress, protest on the street corners. Tell everyone who will listen why the path of freedom is the best for all people. These tactics exploit the strengths of fora like Free Republic. THIS is our power. THIS is where true change will come from. Attemting some sort of political revolution will only lead to our downfall.

A house divided against itself cannot stand.

_________________

There, better!
82 posted on 02/02/2004 8:02:57 AM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: arasina
Know who said this?

God?

83 posted on 02/02/2004 8:02:58 AM PST by OWK
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To: TomServo
I'm from the south too originally but I pledge allegiance to only one flag.

When I see a site like that, I know what it stands for and anything that comes from it has no validity for me.

84 posted on 02/02/2004 8:03:07 AM PST by Columbine (Bush '04 - Owens '08)
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To: robowombat
Aim for mediocrity, its only fair, vote Democrat.
85 posted on 02/02/2004 8:03:26 AM PST by Eva
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To: Mr. Low Key
If they do the same things, does it matter if one has an R after his name and the other a D?

Not from where I sit.

86 posted on 02/02/2004 8:03:34 AM PST by OWK
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To: Columbine
but I pledge allegiance to only one flag

And it has an elephant on it.

87 posted on 02/02/2004 8:04:11 AM PST by OWK
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To: carton253
This is unfortunately absolutely correct. Trying to get rank and file Americans to grasp the eventual logic of such programs as social security is very very difficult. I vividly remember trying to get my mother and her sister to understand what was fiscally poisioness about how the social security 'trust fund' worked. Neither (both were Repus) could or would grasp why paying beneficiaries straight out of current contributions was as a guarantee of disaster and would be prosecuted as fraud if an insurance company ran an equity program in the same way. It is almost impossible to get people to think beyond 'its my right, I'm entitled' mindset.
88 posted on 02/02/2004 8:04:50 AM PST by robowombat
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To: OWK
And what of all those other points? Is inflating the ego of some rinky-dink third party nobody worth the death and chaos that will be brought about by a President Kerry, or a President Edwards? You have been around here along time. You know what our opponents will do to us. How would ANYONE be able to undo the damage that will be done?
89 posted on 02/02/2004 8:06:41 AM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: OWK
And therefore people best just shut up and take whatever steaming pile of leftist feces that Bush sends their way with a smile and a thank you... Right? Is that how it works?

No, that's not how it works. I will vote for Bush because he is still the best candidate who has a chance to win this year.

I realize that there are other offices and other elected officials and I will be working to send the most conservative congressmen and senators to DC that I can.

I will also be working for state and local conservatives and I will be working behind the scenes for a more conservative presidential candidate in '08.

There is a lot more to do than complain. You should get involved and work for change.

90 posted on 02/02/2004 8:07:13 AM PST by Columbine (Bush '04 - Owens '08)
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To: MJY1288
Laugh!

I like the image name, too. . .
91 posted on 02/02/2004 8:07:21 AM PST by Flyer (Fear the Train!)
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To: Constantine XIII
You don't need a third party.

You need to take your party back.

But that ain't gonna come about by pretending that any amount of leftist tripe the president dishes up is A-OK with you...

92 posted on 02/02/2004 8:08:20 AM PST by OWK
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To: OWK
- How about a little accountability?
In politics?

Accountable people "can't win," you know.

93 posted on 02/02/2004 8:09:09 AM PST by exodus
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To: Columbine
I'm from the south too originally but I pledge allegiance to only one flag.

How odd. So do I. And it doesn't keep me from flying the flags of my forefathers nor celebrating my ancestry.

When I see a site like that, I know what it stands for and anything that comes from it has no validity for me.

Would reading what's there be much of a challenge?

94 posted on 02/02/2004 8:10:10 AM PST by TomServo ("Why does the most evil man in the world live in a Stuckeys?")
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To: OWK
And it has an elephant on it.

You're just a troll. Conservative or liberal but a troll just the same.

95 posted on 02/02/2004 8:10:26 AM PST by Columbine (Bush '04 - Owens '08)
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To: Columbine
There is a lot more to do than complain.

Maybe a little complaining (when the president behaves like an FDR hyper-clone) is actually in order.

96 posted on 02/02/2004 8:10:28 AM PST by OWK
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Comment #97 Removed by Moderator

To: OWK
It isn't A-OK with me. I am plenty po'd too. However, there WILL BE NO PARTY TO TAKE BACK if we do something suicidal now!
98 posted on 02/02/2004 8:10:48 AM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: Columbine
You're just a troll.

Mommy... the nasty man said stuff I didn't like.

Make the mean troll go away.

99 posted on 02/02/2004 8:11:11 AM PST by OWK
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To: OWK
Have you tried holding your breath till you turn blue?

That should make the mean ol nasty Republicans listen to you and give you your way.
100 posted on 02/02/2004 8:14:31 AM PST by Columbine (Bush '04 - Owens '08)
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