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An opposing view: Descendant of black Confederate soldier speaks at museum
Thomasville Times-Enterprise ^ | 24 Feb 2004 | Mark Lastinger

Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ

THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.

A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.

"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."

Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.

"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."

About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.

"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."

Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.

"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.

"That's all it ever was."

Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.

"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.

"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."

Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.

"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."

Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.

"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.

Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.

"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!

"They were protected."

Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.

After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.

Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.

"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."

Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.

"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: dixie; dixielist
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To: stand watie
any soldier,sailor,coastie or marine, that has a BRAIN, KNOWS that loyalty to ones God,family & state are AT LEAST equally important to some amorphous "America first" NATIVIST nonsense.

I have not known anybody in the military who is more loyal to, say, Idaho than the USA. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't members of the military take an oath to this country and its Constitution, rather than their state?

2,651 posted on 08/04/2004 7:08:07 AM PDT by Modernman ("I have nothing to declare except my genius." -Oscar Wilde)
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Comment #2,652 Removed by Moderator

To: #3Fan
and you served where?? with what combat unit??

free dixie,sw

2,653 posted on 08/04/2004 7:10:49 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: #3Fan; stand watie
Why he's allowed to call names in such a bigoted way around here is a mystery. I guess because he's so dumb, maybe they feel sorry for him.

There are a few cranks around here. I think management lets them stay for the humor value. His insults are the equivalent of a 5 year-old swearing. They're more amusing than offensive.

More troubling is his advocacy of treason and insurrection. At the end of the day, I don't think SW is a loyal American. Nobody takes his kind seriously, though.

2,654 posted on 08/04/2004 7:10:50 AM PDT by Modernman ("I have nothing to declare except my genius." -Oscar Wilde)
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To: stand watie
did either of YOU serve in the armed forces of the USA??? ever heard a shot fired in anger???

Did you know John Kerry served in Vietnam?

2,655 posted on 08/04/2004 7:11:36 AM PDT by Modernman ("I have nothing to declare except my genius." -Oscar Wilde)
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To: Modernman
interesting question.

during WW2, FDR (upon being told that MANY southern boys had answered the question, "Have you or any of the members of your family ever fought against the United States?", YES,)said that: "HONORABLE service to the CSA was AMERICAN SERVICE & NOT disqualifying." (emphasis, mine.)

free dixie,sw

2,656 posted on 08/04/2004 7:15:55 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: Modernman
NOT honorably.

imVho, he should have been re-called to AD (as he was a comissioned USNR officer at the time), to answer charges that he was DISLOYAL to his compatriots-in-arms, while they were "in the field against a hostile force".

free dixie,sw

2,657 posted on 08/04/2004 7:19:09 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: stand watie

The shot was fired in anger against me. lol I guess they weren't really trying to hit me though because it was nearly point blank and I'd be dead if they were really trying to hit me. I got the message though. I had mistakenly tresspassed on a piece of property I thought was abandoned and it wasn't. Imagine my surprise. We used to go haunted house hunting in the middle of the night, boozin and cruisin, you get the picture. This house wasn't haunted, it had a real person in it. You'd never thought it had anyone in it from the outside but it did. Never made that mistake again.


2,658 posted on 08/04/2004 7:20:18 AM PDT by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan; stand watie
You know what's really sad is this guy is a Republican delegate at the state conventions. No wonder Kerry's leading in Virginia with delusional bigots like Stand Watie representing the Republican Party

He and his ilk hate this country, hate everyone north of the Mason-Dixon line and hate the values that most of us hold.

At the end of the day, much like their liberal counterparts, they want to see America fail.

2,659 posted on 08/04/2004 7:20:59 AM PDT by Modernman ("I have nothing to declare except my genius." -Oscar Wilde)
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To: stand watie
during WW2, FDR (upon being told that MANY southern boys had answered the question, "Have you or any of the members of your family ever fought against the United States?", YES,)said that: "HONORABLE service to the CSA was AMERICAN SERVICE & NOT disqualifying." (emphasis, mine.)

We needed infantry to fight the Nazis. FDR was smart enough to not disqualify some rednecks just because they were stuck in the past.

2,660 posted on 08/04/2004 7:22:29 AM PDT by Modernman ("I have nothing to declare except my genius." -Oscar Wilde)
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To: Modernman

Yeah, maybe so. I don't know what kind of image it portrays though to lurkers to have someone like him calling 75% of the country "filth" in almost every post he makes.


2,661 posted on 08/04/2004 7:22:39 AM PDT by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan

That's why I'm so keen to jump on threads like this. I hope any lurkers out there can see that SW is the exception, rather than the rule.


2,662 posted on 08/04/2004 7:24:02 AM PDT by Modernman ("I have nothing to declare except my genius." -Oscar Wilde)
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To: Modernman
what UTTER NONSENSE!

NOBODY here, to my knowledge, has EVER advocated insurrection. (btw, i'm IMPRESSED that you even KNOW a word of more than 8 letters.)

i DO advocate that dixie should be FREE & hope to live one day in a FREE southern republic, which is true to the precepts/beliefs of Jefferson, Mason,Washington,the other founding fathers & ALMIGHTY GOD.

NONE of the founders of the new American REPUBLIC, would recognize what we have NOW as anything similar to what they wanted as FREE men.

free dixie,sw

2,663 posted on 08/04/2004 7:26:09 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: stand watie
DO advocate that dixie should be FREE & hope to live one day in a FREE southern republic, which is true to the precepts/beliefs of Jefferson, Mason,Washington,the other founding fathers & ALMIGHTY GOD.

And advocating the dissolution of the USA is not insurrection or treason? Right.

2,664 posted on 08/04/2004 7:27:40 AM PDT by Modernman ("I have nothing to declare except my genius." -Oscar Wilde)
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To: #3Fan
in other words, you NEVER served the USA as a combatant.

criminal trespass doesn't count.<P.free dixie,sw

2,665 posted on 08/04/2004 7:27:48 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: Modernman

Yeah, there's no difference between him and the Moore cultists. Both delusional and live to hate. They just root for different teams. If he ever got his way his hatred would then be directed toward Florida. Then if Florida were expelled, it would be certain counties...never ending.


2,666 posted on 08/04/2004 7:28:03 AM PDT by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: Modernman
more STUPID NONSENSE!

you're on a roll. RAVE on.

free dixie,sw

2,667 posted on 08/04/2004 7:28:45 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: Modernman
more STUPID NONSENSE!

you're on a roll. RAVE on.

free dixie,sw

2,668 posted on 08/04/2004 7:28:55 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: Modernman

Yeah, same here. It only takes one thread to lose voters.


2,669 posted on 08/04/2004 7:29:50 AM PDT by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: stand watie

Kinda hard for me to when we went from 1973 to 1991 without a major war.


2,670 posted on 08/04/2004 7:31:40 AM PDT by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: Modernman
nope, REAL southerners hate NOBODY, but despise South-HATERS & self-righteous bigots.

fyi, HANOI-John is NOT leading in VA. that is UNtruthful.

fyi, HANOI-john kerry will NOT carry a single dixie state in the fall.

southerners KNOW who the REAL ENEMY is.

free dixie,sw

2,671 posted on 08/04/2004 7:32:31 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: Modernman
nope. it is NOT!

we southerners keep hoping that New England will secede from the rest of the country & take all the leftist fools with them.

free dixie,sw

2,672 posted on 08/04/2004 7:34:28 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: #3Fan
granted.(we oldsters sometimes forget that everybody here isn't old enough to remember Elvis & Chubby Checker in their prime! LOL!)

BUT did you volunteer/serve in the armed forces?

free dixie,sw

2,673 posted on 08/04/2004 7:36:29 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: stand watie

I'm not army material. I have an anti-authority streak a mile wide. I would've been kicked out of the service. I was nearly fired from my last job 3 times in 2 years because of my anti-authority. I now work alone at home and am a lot happier. For me to be content, my superiors must be smarter than I am and as I get older they are getting harder to find. I'm a revolutionary, not a member of the herd.


2,674 posted on 08/04/2004 7:45:28 AM PDT by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
i figured.

fyi, my radio callsign "over there" was PEERLESS REBEL 6.

my V-100 (armored car)was known as 'OLE NATE FORREST, by all & sundry.

free dixie,sw

2,675 posted on 08/04/2004 8:27:11 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: Modernman
so you admit southern boys are FIERCE/determined fighters, when aroused in a JUST CAUSE??

you might remember that.

free dixie,sw

2,676 posted on 08/04/2004 8:30:45 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: 4CJ

Anthony Hervey is proud of his ancestors, but I doubt that they are proud of him:
http://www.anthonyhervey-confederatecrook.com/


2,677 posted on 05/18/2010 8:40:55 PM PDT by graverholt
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