Posted on 07/09/2004 4:44:38 AM PDT by abu afak
good for the Church
The basic premise of this article is incorrect. Catholic doctrine and moral teachings are not defined by a "forum of Catholic-Jewish intellectuals."
I am Catholic and I am glad that this statement was put out. If JPII did not approve of it, it would not be stated.
This article is from Ha'aretz, and there isn't a single "Catholic intellectual" included as a source for the statement. There is nothing in the article to suggest that the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church had anything to do with this statement.
Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part....
Since you have already noticed the deceptive nature of the article and you have already considered the source, just let me add my standard lament about thugs.
Some anti-Zionist are anti-Semitic and all anti-Semites are anti-Zionist just as some Zionists are racists. Groups such as the JDL and segments of the once proud ADL are run by thugs who are routinely condemed by a vast majority of the Jewish faith, especially in Israel since they are the ones who have to suffer the consequences from the Kahane Kooks.
What bothers you about the Catholic Church stating the obvious??
Not a universally held opinion, nor is the opionion that antisemitism is a bad thing.
Maybe some Catholic authorities will come out against this, but I won't hold my breath.
Controversy, some people think Jews should be allowed to have a country.
"Controversy, some people think Jews should be allowed to have a country."
Some people would include this Roman Catholic.
Harrowup doesn't accept your characterization of "a handful of Jews". He's a died in the wool democrat, self described former communist I believe, who's accused hundred of freepers, as many as he could by name, including myself of being radicals, likely supporters of Kach and Kahane Chai, on other websites.
If you want to meet a thug, say hi to harrowup
My skepticism is fueled by the fact that for several years there was a "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend" allegedly written by Martin Luther King, jr. which eventually was proven to be bogus.
I ask all FReepers to pray for the safety of my son in the IDF, who is on duty in the Jordan Valley.
FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel ping list.
WARNING: This is a high volume ping list
The following is an excerpt from an essay by a Jewish Organization, Jews Not Zionists...
THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST
"Spiritually and Physically Responsible "
It was a man possessing outstanding Judaic genius, and a level of uncontested holiness who enunciated the Jewish stance regarding Zionism. This charismatic individual, the Rebbe of Satmar, Grand Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum, did not mince any words. Straight to the point he called Zionism "the work of Satan", "a sacrilege" and "a blasphemy". He forbade any participation with anything even remotely associated with Zionism and said that Zionism was bound to call the wrath of G-d upon His people.
But it doesn't end there. It wasn't enough for the Zionist leaders to have aroused the wrath of G-d. They made a point of displaying abysmal contempt for their Jewish brothers and sisters by actively participating in their extermination. Just the idea alone of Zionism, which the rabbis had informed them would cause havoc, was not enough for them. They made an effort to pour fuel on an already burning flame. They had to incite the Angel of Death, Adolf Hitler. They took the liberty of telling the world that they represented World Jewry. Who appointed these individuals as leaders of the Jewish People?? It is no secret that these so-called "leaders" were ignoramuses when it came to Judaism. Atheists and racists too...
"No Shame"
President Roosevelt convened the Evian conference July 6-15 1938, to deal with the Jewish refugee problem. The Jewish Agency delegation headed by Golda Meir (Meirson) ignored a German offer to allow Jews to emigrate to other countries for $250 a head, and the Zionists made no effort to influence the United States and the 32 other countries attending the conference to allow immigration of German and Austrian Jews. (The Wall Street Journal, December 2, 1976 )
On Feb 1, 1940 Henry Montor executive vice-President of the United Jewish Appeal refused to intervene for a shipload of Jewish refugees stranded on the Danube river, stating that "Palestine cannot be flooded with... old people or with undesirables." (The Wall Street Journal, December 2, 1976 )
It is an historical fact that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that:
a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and
b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and
c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily.
The Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding that the exclusion of Palestine as a destination for the deportees was based on an agreement between the Gestapo and the Mufti.
The answer of the Zionist leaders was negative, with the following comments:
a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees.
b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war.
c) No ransom will be paid
These treacherous Zionist leaders betrayed their own flesh and blood. Zionism was never an option for Jewish salvation. Quite the opposite, it was a formula for human beings to be used as pawns for the power trip of several desperadoes. A perfidy! A betrayal beyond description!
In 1944, at the time of the Hungarian deportations, a similar offer was made, whereby all Hungarian Jewry could be saved. The same Zionist hierarchy again refused this offer...
On December 17, 1942 both houses of the British Parliament declared its readiness to find temporary refuge for endagered persons. The British Parliament proposed to evacuate 500,000 Jews from Europe, and resettle them in British colonies, as a part of diplomatic negotiations with Germany. This motion received within two weeks a total of 277 Parliamentary signatures. On Jan. 27, when the next steps were being pursued by over 100 M.P.'s and Lords, a spokesman for the Zionists announced that the Jews would oppose the motion because Palestine was ommitted. (The Wall Street Journal, December 2, 1976 )
On Feb. 16, 1943 Roumania offered 70,000 Jewish refugees of the Trans-Dniestria to leave at the cost of $50 each. This was publicized in the New York papers. Yitzhak Greenbaum, Chairman of the Rescue Committee of the Jewish Agency, addressing the Zionist Executive Council in Tel Aviv Feb. 18 1943 said, "when they asked me, "couldn't you give money out of the United Jewish Appeal funds for the rescue of Jews in Europe, I said NO! and I say again, NO!...one should resist this wave which pushes the Zionist activities to secondary importance." On Feb. 24, 1943 Stephen Wise, President of the American Jewish Congress and leader of the American Zionists issued a public refusal to this offer and declared no collection of funds would seem justified. In 1944, the Emergency Committee to Save the Jewish People called upon the American government to establish a War Refugee Board. Stephen Wise testifying before a special committeeof Congress objected to this proposal. (The Wall Street Journal, December 2, 1976 )
During the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weizman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weizman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe".
And then, after the bitterest episode in Jewish history, these Zionist "statesmen" lured the broken refugees in the DP camps to remain in hunger and deprivation, and to refuse relocation to any place but Palestine; only for the purpose of building their State.
In 1947 Congressman William Stration sponsored a bill to immediately grant entry to the United States of 400,000 displaced persons. The bill was not passed after it was publicly denounced by the Zionist leadership. (The Wall Street Journal, December 2, 1976 )
These facts are read with consternation and unbearable shame. How can it be explained that at a time during the last phase of the war, when the Nazis were willing to barter Jews for money, partly because of their desires to establish contact with the Western powers which, they believed, were under Jewish influence, how was it possible one asks that the self-proclaimed "Jewish leaders" did not move heaven and earth to save the last remnant of their brothers?
End of excerpt
It depends on who made the statement and on what grounds it was made.
Whatever its status, it is clearly a timely recognition of the facts on the ground and I applaud the Vatican for it.
Lots of controversy above..
some thoughts:
Ha'aretz is usually a very reliable source (Not their Radical Editorialists, like Amira Hass/Gideon Levy etc)
It is not known yet just how 'Official' these scholars were and at whose behest they were there.
But offical doctrine often starts with small less official ties.
Earlier this year, the Vatican semi-offically changed their position on Islam. (it's violent history against Christianity etc)..
It was done through the semi-officail 'Civita Catolica/ .. not an official publication.. but nothimng gets in, it is said, without the approval of the Vatican.
This conference hasn't even yet rose to this/the above status yet as far as I know.
I will wait and watch for further info on this.
abu afak
I'm not sure that it will keep the noxious Catholic priests whose missions are in Israel, or their counterparts in the Eastern Rite, from continuing with their pro forma denunciations of the country that protects their religious liberty and freedom to worship/proselytize at will, but it's at the very least, a good start.
Anyone who believes that the ADL is a reactionary organization really needs to have their head examined.
STAT!
(1) The Catholic-Jewish organization referenced here is the Angelo Roncalli Committee of the Raoul Wallenberg Foundation.
Angelo Roncalli was the birth name of Blessed Pope John XXIII.
This Committee is endorsed by the Vatican and I believe that the Pope traditionally sends messages of support to their annual meeting.
(2) The Vatican is currently negotiating details of its 1993 Fundamental Agreement with Medinat Yisrael regarding the status of the Church in Israel.
The Israeli diplomat assigned to the Vatican, the appropriately-named Oded Ben Hur, has made several comments recently about how sympathetic the Vatican is to Israel's current plight and how constructive and cordial the discussions are.
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