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A model for revitalizing Catholic parish life
The Wanderer's From the Mail ^ | September 24, 2004

Posted on 09/23/2004 5:56:29 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena

A Wanderer reader from Chicago has reminded FROM THE MAIL that it has been several years since we have reported on the revitalized St. John Cantius parish in Chicago, and the thriving new order of priests, the Society of St. John Cantius, and that we owe readers an update.

After looking at the materials she sent in, FTM agrees, and so we'll look at St. John's and the Order - in the context of the crucial question of what is happening in Catholic parish life in the United States today - but, first, an update on "the singing ex-Jesuit, Dan Schutte" and his domestic partner Mike Gale.

+ + +

After FTM revealed, in the July 29 edition, that former Milwaukee Jesuit Dan Schutte, who is still making the rounds on the Catholic music circuit, was a partnered gay man teaching at the University of San Francisco, where he is "musician in residence," some Internet bloggers picked up the article and began a disinformation campaign insisting that: 1, the "Dan Schutte" FTM was writing about was not the popular "Catholic" musician whose songs have become a staple in modern parishes, and, 2, that FTM's "negative" publicity was actually increasing sales of his "music."

Well, the way things work today, FTM has no doubt that the negative publicity is increasing sales - because that's the nature of the Amchurch beast. There are still too many homosexuals directing parish music programs.

But the "Dan Schutte" whose music is sung in thousands of parishes is an ex-Jesuit and he is a partnered gay man.

And affirmation of this comes from occasional Wanderer contributor, Dr. Brian J. Kopp, a Catholic in the Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown, who recently sent FTM some research he has completed on Schutte after he read that Schutte was to be a guest of the Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown.

When he learned that Schutte was to be a music workshop leader at Mt. Aloysius College, Dr. Kopp sent the following letter to the local Johnstown, Pa., Tribune Democrat, which was published September 9:

"To the Editor:

"It appears that the Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown is up to the same old tricks. On Saturday September 11 at Mount Aloysius College there will be a liturgical music workshop by the former St. Louis Jesuit priest Dan Schutte.

"Schutte is a leader of the dreadful movement in modern liturgical music that has changed the emphasis of our hymns from adoring, praising, and glorifying God to pridefully asserting how wonderful and faithful and loving and marvelous We ourselves are. A discerning eye will note how often these new hymns mention 'I' and 'My' and 'Us' and 'Our' far more often than the Holy Trinity, the Blessed Eucharist, God the Father, Jesus Christ, the angels and saints, or even the wages of sin or the grace that saved a wretch such as 'me.'

"More troubling is the fact that Schutte is no longer a priest but is now publicly identified as a partnered gay man. He is best known for his song, Here I am, Lord, a song that has become the anthem for the dissenting gay rights movement within the Catholic Church.

"There should be, and probably are, Church laws against Catholic dioceses and colleges sponsoring workshops by former priests living what most Catholics consider a scandalous lifestyle. But as one of our local pastors quipped, when asked why his parish was making a liturgical change that violated Canon Law, 'In this diocese, we don't obey Canon Law. We obey the bishop.'"

Immediately after that letter was published, Dr. Kopp informed FTM, a rumor began circulating that the Schutte mentioned in the letter is a mistaken identity and is not the ex-Jesuit priest and composer...."

One newspaper reader wrote Kopp: "We have done our own research on the matter of Dan Schutte and found some of the accusations false. There are two Dan Schuttes who live in the Milwaukee area and there are five who live in the San Francisco Bay Area. The Dan Schutte that is mentioned in the obituaries isn't the one we know. After contacting a friend in a high place at GIA, (not OCP) [Oregon Catholic Press, ed., the publisher of most of Schutte's music], I found out that there is not any truth to Dan Schutte being publicly partnered to a man. They actually said this Crux News.com article [a reprint of FTM's July 29 column] was having a reverse effect because in their words so many of the music directors in parishes (many who are gay) are now ordering more of Dan Schutte's music and they had heard of one parish using nothing but Dan Schutte music for two weeks. The 'martyr effect at play' they said...."

To dispel these rumors, Kopp informed FTM that an Internet search using VoyagerSearch finds:

"69. Mike Gale [Dan Schutte's partner]: Pilgrim Music was founded in 2002 by composer Dan Schutte after hearing time and again from folks in the pew how often they were frustrated by not being able to find his music, or that of other well known artists and composers, in the stores.

URL: http://www.pilgrimmusic.com

"The link goes to http://www.pilgrimmusic.com. Here is their Company History, according to their site:

"'Pilgrim Music was founded in 2002 by composer Dan Schutte after hearing time and again from "folks in the pew" how often they were frustrated by not being able to find his music, or that of other well known artists and composers, in the stores. There are many songs that have been standards, not only of worship, but have also become personal to many Christians in their journey of faith. In response, Dan and his associates have developed this site as a vehicle for folks to find music they might enjoy for their personal prayer, or simply to enjoy around the house or in the car as they go about their day. Much of the music you'll find on this site has been personally selected by Dan. We are continually increasing the number of collections we offer as we search for wonderful new music for prayer.

"A WHO IS search for PILGRIMMUSIC.COM reveals: Domain Name: PILGRIMMUSIC

Administrative Contact: Pilgrim Music, mike@mikegale.net; 231 Mullen Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94110; Phone: 415-505-6440

"On the Pilgrim Music website, their 'Contact Us' link provides an address of: 109 Franconia Street, San Francisco, CA 94110

"A WHO IS search for Dan Schutte's personal website, DANSCHUTTE.COM reveals: 'Domain Name:DANSCHUTTE.COM; Dan Schutte, 109 Franconia Street, San Francisco, CA 94110 Phone: 415-970-1500; fax..: 703-991-8203. Email: dan@danschutte.com

"Obviously," writes Dr. Kopp, both PILGRIMMUSIC.COM under the Administration of mike@mikegale.net and DANSCHUTTE.COM under the Administration of Dan Schutte list this same address, 109 Franconia Street, San Francisco, CA 94110.

"Unfortunately, given that: 1)Dan Schutte grew up in Milwaukee and is mentioned in two obituaries from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel stating the deceased is survived by a son, Dan (partner Mike Gale) of San Francisco. If Dan and Mike were only 'business' partners, the obit would probably not mention the 'partner' at all, or if they did, they would specify 'business' partner, for fear others would think their son was gay. Plus, the obits specifically mention Dan and his partner live in San Francisco. Two guys described as partners means only one thing in San Francisco, to my knowledge.

"2) Dan Schutte founded a website to sell his music, and that website is administered by a Mike Gale of San Francisco, and both share the same street address, and, 3) the public announcements that Schutte is a partnered gay man were published in print and on the internet in July, yet there has been no correction of this charge (to my knowledge) by Schutte, and so it appears that Dan Schutte, the former St. Louis Jesuit and composer is indeed presently 'partnered' with Mike Gale in San Francisco...."

That should end the disinformation campaign.

And kudos to Dr. Kopp, for taking information from The Wanderer to inform Catholics in his diocese, who would, naturally, not be aware of the not-so-hidden agenda of modern liturgical musicians.

+ + +

With that out of the way, may FTM propose St. John Cantius as a model for revitalizing parish life in the United States today?

St. John Cantius, founded in 1893, had 23,000 parishioners when the Great Depression hit, and in the following decades of social change its population steadily dwindled until the 1980s when the trends were reversed, largely through the direction of its pastor, Fr. Frank C. Phillips, who recognized that a parish is more than a fast-liturgy outlet for hour-a-week Catholics.

The heart of any parish, he understood, is the liturgy; but it also must provide education and formation for parishioners.

Because of the quality of liturgy at St. John Cantius - Masses include Latin Novus Ordo celebrations, as well as the Tridentine Rite - it began attracting a growing number of Catholics from across Chicago and surrounding areas, especially young men who aspired to the priesthood, and in 1998, Fr. Phillips founded the Society of St. John Cantius, a religious community of men dedicated to the restoration of the sacred in the context of parish ministry.

On December 23, 1999, Francis Cardinal George, Archbishop of Chicago, approved statutes for the Society.

The Society's mission, as explained in its published material, is to "cultivate authentic Catholic life that is rooted in the rich heritage of our faith, so as to promote a true Restoration of the Sacred within the Church....The Society considers the musical, ceremonial and artistic traditions, which have enhanced the liturgy throughout the centuries, as a particularly important part of the Church's patrimony that can help in the revitalization of the faith and the spread of the Gospel...."

Here is what the parish provides or offers:

* Six choirs - the Resurrection Choir, which specializes in classic Viennese Masses and other sacred music; the St. Cecilia Choir, which specializes in Renaissance polyphony; the Sine Nomine Choir, which specializes in small classical works in a liturgical setting; the Holy Innocents Choir, a young people's choir of varied sacred music; and the Cantate Domino Choir, a young people's choir that specializes in polyphonic Masses.

* Eight parish societies: St. Monica Sodality, which prays for the return of family members to the Church; the Confraternity of the Blessed Sacrament, to promote devotion and adoration of the Blessed Sacrament; the Padre Pio Prayer Group, dedicated to the canonized Capuchin Franciscan; the Ladies Rosary Sodality, which fosters devotion to the Rosary; the Knights of Columbus, for charitable works in the parish; and the St. Anne Apostolate, which offers spiritual programs for grandparents; and the Holy Name Society

* Educational and catechetical programs: in addition to a strong parish catechetical program (using the Ignatius Faith & Life series), the parish offers Latin 101, Latin 102, Latin Syntax and Rhetoric, Latin Readings, Greek 100, and Children's Latin, which offers the young people of the parish instruction in Latin prayers and hymns.

In addition, the parish has a library and book store, youth groups, a basement café for after-Mass gatherings, etc.

On May 18, 2004, Cardinal George ordained two men of the Society into the priesthood, and another into the diaconate - and more men of the parish are seminarians, preparing for the priesthood.

For those readers in the Chicago area, or planning a trip through, there is now a special attraction at St. John Cantius, a faithful replica of the famous Wit Stwosz altarpiece of Krakow, Poland.

The original altarpiece, built over a 12-year period from 1477 to 1489 by the master carver of Nuremberg, Wit Stwosz, features a five-part polychromed and gilded limewood sculpture depicting the life of the Virgin Mary.

The reproduction, commissioned by Fr. Phillips in 1995, was carved by Polish master carver Michal Batkiewicz over eight years, and is one-third the size of the original, but every bit as stunning - as anyone can see by visiting the Society's web site, at www.cantius.org or by writing the parish and asking for copies of their literature (there is a special brochure, in full color, on the pentatych, including the newsletter, Via Sacra, at The Society of St. John Cantius, 825 North Carpenter, Chicago, Ill., 60622-3654.

Sunday Masses, by the way, are at 7:30 a.m. (Tridentine Low Mass, Latin); 9 a.m. Missa Normativa (English); 11 a.m. Missa Normativa (Latin) and 12:30 p.m. Tridentine High Mass. Confessions are available upon request, at 4:30 p.m. on Saturdays, and before all Sunday Masses.

This is a model parish, one that should be setting the trend for the Church in the United States; it works, it is thriving, it is attracting more and more people to, not only the parish, but the Catholic Church all the time; it is producing priests for the archdiocese (and priests who will, inevitably, be working in more parishes in the archdiocese as the priest shortage intensifies), and it is promoting the Church's greatest possessions: truth and beauty.

Why, after more than 30 years of liturgical and doctrinal chaos, the U.S. bishops do not take the Society of St. John Cantius and the parish as a model for the revitalization of the entire U.S. Church, FTM cannot understand.

But there will always be mysteries.....


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: catholic; model; parish
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1 posted on 09/23/2004 5:56:30 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: AskStPhilomena; Canticle_of_Deborah; Robert Drobot; Pio; pascendi; pro Athanasius; Maeve; ELS

Thank you for posting this! St. John Cantius Parish is well known for the positive role model of an active parish that it is.

But I can't resist commenting on Dan Schutte. What you posted here is of great interest and truth.

Yes, his music is archtypal of the crapola which we are tortured with each Sunday in most churches.

Now what is even more perplexing is not the realization that there are too many gay music directors in parishes; it is that Schutte's music is so beloved among them long before his sexuality became grist for the rumor mill.

This proves two important points:

1) good taste is not the exclusive province of gay people. As a matter of fact, and quick peek in the door of a gay bar, or at the tv program "Queer eye for the Straight Guy", or the Christopher Lowell show tells it all. All too frequently they ain't got no class. And the blatent emotional immaturity doesn't help much either!

2) My oft repeated claim of gay code words which lace the texts of the works of Schutte and his ilk. I would have to conclude that this is a great part of their appeal to all the gay clergy and music directors. Like a dog whistle that they can hear and we can't!


2 posted on 09/23/2004 7:25:05 PM PDT by thor76 (Vatican II is Grand Theft Ecclesiastical)
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To: thor76

"My oft repeated claim of gay code words which lace the texts of the works of Schutte and his ilk."

I guess I've missed it as many times as you've repeated it.

What are these words?


3 posted on 09/23/2004 8:37:11 PM PDT by dsc
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To: Diago; narses; Loyalist; BlackElk; american colleen; saradippity; Dajjal; Land of the Irish; ...
And kudos to Dr. Kopp, for taking information from The Wanderer to inform Catholics in his diocese, who would, naturally, not be aware of the not-so-hidden agenda of modern liturgical musicians.

Polycarp lives!

4 posted on 09/23/2004 9:31:25 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: dsc; Pio; pascendi; Maeve; Canticle_of_Deborah; Viva Christo Rey; ELS; Salvation; Robert Drobot; ...

ok...here is a list of some of the more prominant gay code words which lace our "liturgy song":

Gifts = homosexuality itself, also AIDS (I am not kidding, in some gay circles a "gift-giver" is one who has AIDS). You can learn as much by reading even more conventional rags such as the NY Village Voice.

Diversity = another obvious gay reference.
"wounded" or "broken" = gay persons hurt by the homophobia of Catholicism.

"hopes.....dreams...visions" = that alternative lifestyles will be universally accepted unconditionally.

"justice" = can either have obvious leftist/marxist connotations, or simply be the result of "hopes/dreams/visions".

"outcast/stranger" = can either bothe refer to gay persons, or the former to gays, and the latter to non-believers.

"free" or "freedom" = can be a reference to "freedom" from rebuke, preaching, or teaching on moral matters so as to incite feelings of conscience or compunction.

These bear their meaning in and of themselves, and in conjuction with each other. But they are usually woven into a context which is subtle. Although, if you look at pieces like "Sing a New Chruch", the lyrics are blatent to the point of being frightening.

It almost makes you want to burn the missalettes!


5 posted on 09/23/2004 10:11:41 PM PDT by thor76 (Vatican II is Grand Theft Ecclesiastical)
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To: thor76
It almost makes you want to burn the missalettes!

They're only code words if YOU make them so. I find nothing objectionable in those words or phrases, if they are sung as they are written. As for the song "Here I Am, Lord", I always thought it was written from the point of view of a young man offering his life to God and His Church as a priest. Who knew otherwise?

Whatever choices Dan Schutte has made in his life now, some of the St. Louis Jesuits music is very prayerful. I've always liked their use of the Psalms as the basis of many of their songs. Yes, much of it is pedestrian, but at least it gets people used to singing, and they can be convinced to sing other BETTER music later on.

6 posted on 09/23/2004 10:31:09 PM PDT by SuziQ (Bush in 2004-Because we MUST!!!)
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To: SuziQ; thor76; Religion Moderator
They're only code words if YOU make them so. I find nothing objectionable in those words or phrases, if they are sung as they are written. As for the song "Here I Am, Lord", I always thought it was written from the point of view of a young man offering his life to God and His Church as a priest. Who knew otherwise?

You are, of course, right, SuziQ, but those who wish to tear down the Novus Ordo know that the best way to do it is to associate it with faggotry.

In their warped, hate-addled minds, you and I are homosexuals because we attend the Novus Ordo Mass. We can't possibly be good Catholics, and are condemned to hell because of the manner of worship we choose.

There is a vileness that has come to dominate this forum from those who despise the Church, the Pope, and the Mass that you and I attend. Ignore it. Be confident that your instincts are correct; that those who would debase your worship are simply misguided fools.

7 posted on 09/23/2004 10:43:07 PM PDT by sinkspur ("John Kerry's gonna win on his juices. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: Maximilian

"Polycarp lives!"

Thank God.


8 posted on 09/23/2004 10:52:18 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: SuziQ

"They're only code words if YOU make them so."

Not so. They are code words if the writer intended them so, or if men who suffer from SSAD are using them as such.

One bit of knowledge that I could have done without is that men who suffer from SSAD do use code words to identify themselves and each other.

As I recall, I became aware of that back in the 60s after a thoroughly puzzling (and short) conversation with a stranger about Judy Garland. "What the heck was he talking about?" I asked. He was checking to see if we also suffered from his disorder.

We may wish we were still in Kansas, but the Wicked Witch straddles his broomstick in the sky, ruby loafers never touching the ground, and peregrinates in a never-ending search for victims to drag into "the life."

"and they can be convinced to sing other BETTER music later on."

You know, there are a lot of us who bitterly resent this insistance on everybody singing. It's like the Church was highjacked by John Denver or the New Christy Minstrels gone tone-deaf.

And we had far superior music *before,* so how come we're now waiting for some pie-in-the-sky, as-yet unwritten "better music?"


9 posted on 09/23/2004 10:52:45 PM PDT by dsc
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To: sinkspur
Be confident that your instincts are correct

I am.

10 posted on 09/23/2004 10:53:36 PM PDT by SuziQ (Bush in 2004-Because we MUST!!!)
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To: dsc
You know, there are a lot of us who bitterly resent this insistance on everybody singing

So, don't sing. Really. If you're going to be bitter about, just zip it.

11 posted on 09/23/2004 10:56:18 PM PDT by sinkspur ("John Kerry's gonna win on his juices. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: dsc
And we had far superior music *before,* so how come we're now waiting for some pie-in-the-sky, as-yet unwritten "better music?"

I didn't say I was waiting for better music to be written, only for the congregations to be open to better music when they are finally introduced to it.
I'm partial to the Oxford Hymnal and Renaissance polyphony, myself.

12 posted on 09/23/2004 10:56:40 PM PDT by SuziQ (Bush in 2004-Because we MUST!!!)
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To: thor76

Hey, everybody, look at message 7.

There's one of those SSPX/Traditionalists flaming people again.

He's saying that people who disagree with him have "warped, hate-addled minds" and that they are vile, "misguided fools."

Man, it really irritates me the way those SSPX/Traditionalists are always flaming people. Thank goodness we can count on the Religion Moderator to suspend people for personal attacks.


13 posted on 09/23/2004 10:56:57 PM PDT by dsc
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To: SuziQ

You know, the Church was not founded at VAT II.

If today's Catholics have not been introduced to fine music, that is because their heritage was stolen from them by Modernist heretics.


14 posted on 09/23/2004 11:01:40 PM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc; Religion Moderator
You read #2 and #5, where your bud associates words from a song used at Novus Ordo Masses with gays.

When someone objects to that characterization, you think it's a personal attack.

How long is this stuff going to go on?

15 posted on 09/23/2004 11:05:22 PM PDT by sinkspur ("John Kerry's gonna win on his juices. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: SuziQ

They're only code words if YOU make them so

Well, I am afraid that these words are in fact used as codes by their authors - and, very sadly, by certain readers with SSAD. The translation of them is not, in fact mine; it comes from a couple of authors, who are music and literary scholars. Unfortunately I do not have the sources or names to quote at the moment, as I am not at my desk.

My comments were not about Schutte specifically, nor about "Here Am I, Lord".

Actually, Schutte's text for "Here Am I , Lord" is based on Isaiah 6. This is a good basis to write a hymn.

But he bungled the words - to the point that the verses are very close to blasphemy. It is in his use of the word "I". To sing it, one is essentially saying that "I" am God. Such phrases are qualified in scripture and elsewhere by qualification: God said....the Lord said. To cite the context as a reference is insufficient: words have meaning.

Lastly, my post had nothing to do with the Novus Ordo as such. It was simply decrying a very sad reality in contemporary Catholic church music.


16 posted on 09/23/2004 11:16:24 PM PDT by thor76 (Vade retro, Draco! Crux sacra sit mihi lux!)
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To: thor76
Oh,the hubris of the almighty "I" in so many of these new songs.

I happen to like "Here I am Lord" and think it would very powerful if it had the clarion ring of truth,but it doesn't.

It seems that if we sang TO God,the choir would be singing, "You're the God of wind and rain,You have felt your people's pain."Or,if we were singing ABOUT God,it would say,"He's the God of wind and rain,He has felt His people's pain".

But instead,we are singing praises and attributing power to ourselves. "I am the God of wind and rain,I have felt my people's pain". It is so wrong and affects me like squeaky chalk on a board.

17 posted on 09/23/2004 11:48:18 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: saradippity

Now, Sara, you stop that.

Don't you know that only "misguided fools" with "warped, hate-addled minds" damage the Religion Forum with that kind of "vileness?"

And no, those words do not constitute a personal attack.

It's perfectly acceptable to say such things about people who express proscribed beliefs.

Oh, how long will this be allowed to continue? (Vamp, vamp, swan about with back of limp wrist pressed to forehead.)


18 posted on 09/23/2004 11:58:23 PM PDT by dsc
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To: AskStPhilomena

I still say reinstitute tuesday night bingo and weekly singles dances on thursdays, but what do I know?


19 posted on 09/24/2004 12:01:56 AM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: HitmanNY

What do you mean "re-institute"?
Aren't these practices still thriving at "Catholic" parishes around the country.


20 posted on 09/24/2004 12:07:40 AM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: AskStPhilomena

I certainly hope they are!

I was just being a wiseacre (and I am a practicing Catholic, born and raised!)


21 posted on 09/24/2004 12:19:15 AM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: AskStPhilomena
But the "Dan Schutte" whose music is sung in thousands of parishes is an ex-Jesuit and he is a partnered gay man.

Is there a link to the original articles, and documentation? This is intriguing but not conclusive.

Having the same address on whois doesn't mean that is your residence.
22 posted on 09/24/2004 3:09:11 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: dsc
"You know, there are a lot of us who bitterly resent this insistance on everybody singing. It's like the Church was highjacked by John Denver or the New Christy Minstrels gone tone-deaf."

Boy! Is that ever the truth! We just recently got a new music director (she and her family have been members of our parish for many years) and, since she took over, we almost exclusively sing the "new" songs. I hate it. At least the old music director included old standards - including Latin sung during communion and sometimes other parts of the massas well. I notice many folks, like my husband and I, don't sing the new songs. I even went to the earliest Sunday Mass hoping for no music at all. But, even then, with a different organist, we had the new stuff.

It is all a symptom of far our church has fallen.

23 posted on 09/24/2004 3:14:28 AM PDT by sneakers
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To: sneakers

We have the lovely "raising arms to Heaven" drama to cue the parishoners to sing. The responses are constantly changing so the group is always flat. It is horrid.

My hopes for an epiphany in this parish were dashed when I attended my first Education committee meeting (thanks everyone for your help), and was told that our new pastor had a series of small stokes just before coming to us. His short term memory is lacking.

Translation, the old pastor let the women of the parish be all touchie feelie and this will continue.

The head of the commitee stated that those who were raised when Vatican II was implimented have no knowledge of what so ever of true Catholic teachings. That made me pause. I have to find a way to tell her that one of her best friends who taught my daughter's 1st grade class, told a child that the wine was not "really" Christ's blood. Help me.


24 posted on 09/24/2004 4:10:30 AM PDT by netmilsmom (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: sinkspur

Dan Schutte? Never heard of him. I never heard "Here I am Lord" either. Did he write, "On this day, oh beautiful Mother"? I really love that one.


25 posted on 09/24/2004 4:32:07 AM PDT by Stubborn (It is the Mass that matters)
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To: netmilsmom

I know. I cry during mass. It breaks my heart to see the lack of respect for Jesus in the Tabernacle. The loud talking in the 'narthex' before mass; the talking in the pews. Mom's bringing cute little books for their children to read during the Mass and the cheerios for them to munch on. My mom would have NEVER done that. NO mom would have allowed that!

I don't remember being this sickened and dismayed by these things in the past. Was I so blind to what we have lost? I don't know what woke me up, but it is hard for me to attend mass anymore and feel as if it was meaningful. And since when did Catholic Churches start to feel different from one another? At one time, you could go to any Catholic Church anywhere and you were in familiar surroundings immediately. Now, one Catholic church is different from another.
Dropping the Latin was probably the first and biggest mistake. It was the commonality of language that tied us together all over the world. Now, even that has been lost.

I feel betrayed.

We are a divided church in more ways than one.


26 posted on 09/24/2004 5:11:18 AM PDT by sneakers
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To: saradippity
But instead,we are singing praises and attributing power to ourselves. "I am the God of wind and rain,I have felt my people's pain". It is so wrong and affects me like squeaky chalk on a board.

Good point. It can certainly become a source of confusion.

27 posted on 09/24/2004 5:14:09 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: sneakers
Your response was great and, unfortunately, true.

The heirarchy---up to and including our ailing pope---are responsible.

Pope John Paul will owe God an explanation that will, of course, not wash. His predecessors, Like John Paul, squandered a golden opportunity to please our Maker but originated, perpetuated and allowed the evil to seep in and contaminate what our Savior left behind to comfort and guide us until the Second Coming.

The USSR helped us out by sending communist priests into seminaries begining in 1950. Then after they were firmly entrenched to do satan's work, our bishops knowingly permitted homosexuals to enter our seminaries to sinfully receive holy orders and then march off to get their hands on our children.

Many of us cry at mass, but many enjoy the social hour without a thought as to what is happening before their eyes.

28 posted on 09/24/2004 5:27:59 AM PDT by JesseHousman (Execute Mumia Abu-Jamal)
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To: dsc
You know, the Church was not founded at VAT II.

I knew the VAT I church as well, and frankly there was not a lot of singing going on at my Parish, I don't know about other places. Most people don't know the difference between good music and tripe, but if they are singing in Praise to God, it doesn't really matter to them.

I've attended Latin Mass as an adult, and it doesn't hold that much fascination for me. I do like the old Latin hyms, but wouldn't want a steady diet of them. A lot of the modern music is silly to me, but others like it, and it enhances their worship of God. Isn't that what music is supposed to do? They aren't looking for hidden meanings in the words; they just sing and while doing so 'pray twice'!

29 posted on 09/24/2004 5:28:59 AM PDT by SuziQ (Bush in 2004-Because we MUST!!!)
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To: AskStPhilomena
And affirmation of this comes from occasional Wanderer contributor, Dr. Brian J. Kopp, a Catholic in the Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown, who recently sent FTM some research he has completed on Schutte after he read that Schutte was to be a guest of the Diocese of Altoona-Johnstown.

Gone but not forgotten! Well done, Brian/Proud2BRC/Polycarp!

30 posted on 09/24/2004 5:35:42 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: SuziQ

“Most people don't know the difference between good music and tripe”

Don’t they? You have a pretty low opinion of “most people,” don’t you?

“but if they are singing in Praise to God, it doesn't really matter to them.”

It’s irrelevant whether it matters “to them” or not. What is central is whether it matters objectively, as a question of Truth.

It does.

“A lot of the modern music is silly to me, but others like it, and it enhances their worship of God. Isn't that what music is supposed to do?”

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, a thousand times no, that is NOT what music is supposed to do.

Music is supposed to EXALT us in a way that only great art can do.

“They aren't looking for hidden meanings in the words; they just sing”

I can’t get over how you seem to think of “most people” as ignorant and mindless.


31 posted on 09/24/2004 5:38:26 AM PDT by dsc
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To: AskStPhilomena
I was a parishioner at St. John Cantius for three years and I can assert from personal experience that it is an absolutely wonderful parish. It is an enormous church by most standards (probably as large as the official cathedral of the Chicago Archdiocese) and I watched it grow and thrive to overflowing with a schedule of six masses, despite the fact that it probably seats 1200 parishioners.

They offer the Tridentine Rite as well as Polish and Spanish masses. The homilies are always full of bold, unashamed orthodoxy.

32 posted on 09/24/2004 5:51:55 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: SuziQ
A lot of the modern music is silly to me, but others like it, and it enhances their worship of God. Isn't that what music is supposed to do? They aren't looking for hidden meanings in the words; they just sing and while doing so 'pray twice'!

Like most people this is true. I agree though, I prefer to sing at Mass, I think the problem is a bit deeper.

People claim ownership of various ministries, and are deaf to criticism. When you comment on a "silly song" the rest of the criticisms made are lost on the person, who are you to tell them what to do in "their" ministry. Personally, I would eliminate the word Ministry, and tell them it is a JOB. The serve at the pleasure of the Pastor, and many forget that fact.

There was an alternate 9AM Mass at my Church, for "overflow". We were blessed with having two Priests available for the second Mass. There we didn't have the "folk" choir singing, we had the organ and a guy playing and singing, it wasn't the huge Pipe organ that sits idle for 9AM, it is a little "practice" organ.

The overflow Mass was packed to the brim. The main Mass had seats open. People were mad when we had to go to the main Church.

Recently, the group got moved to the back, up in the loft (where they should be) and they are using the nice Organ as well, but the overflow Mass is no longer possible.

I agree with you about singing at Latin Mass, I prefer the Tridentine sometimes, but there are many reasons to prefer the Novus Ordo. I think the participation of the Faithful is important, and is forced by the Novus Ordo. I disagree about the music being the central place for the Mass, it is an enhancement to Mass. If people are worshiping more devoutly by singing a song that is theologically correct even though it may be banal, then that is a good thing. Unfortunately, "God of Day and God of Darkness" has many serious theological flaws.
33 posted on 09/24/2004 5:53:40 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: AskStPhilomena
69. Mike Gale [Dan Schutte's partner]: Pilgrim Music was founded in 2002 by composer Dan Schutte after hearing time and again from folks in the pew how often they were frustrated by not being able to find his music, or that of other well known artists and composers, in the stores.

I can't believe anyone wants to buy his music. It is unconscionable to even name his songs in public. "Here I Am, Lord," has started droning through my head just from reading this article. nooooo.

34 posted on 09/24/2004 5:55:48 AM PDT by heartwood
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To: dsc
If today's Catholics have not been introduced to fine music...Music had all but disappeared from regular parish masses before Vatican II. Unless it was a "high" Mass for a special occasion, such as Easter or Christmas, the standard was that NO music was offered and no hymns were sung. Add the prohibition against any hymns written by Martin Luther, and the Catholic Church was absent anything singable.

I think that Schutte wrote the best of the mmodern music, but I am sick of the same selections week after week. I wish that music directors would make a practice of mixing old hymns with new so that we have a variety of tempo, rhythm, and range.

As to Dan Schutte, I have often wondered where he is. I have asked around Milwaukee churches and no one seemed to know.

35 posted on 09/24/2004 6:13:56 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Re-elect Dubya)
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To: Maximilian

Thanks for the ping.

I belonged to a choir and never thought that the songs we sang would be from some aberrant person.
Very Sad.


36 posted on 09/24/2004 6:19:19 AM PDT by chatham
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To: afraidfortherepublic
From www.danschutte.com (Yes, the website is silent on the accusations)

"Dan continues his composition work residing in San Francisco. He is composer in Residence at the University of San Francisco, and Director of Music for the Office of University Ministries."
37 posted on 09/24/2004 6:26:22 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: AskStPhilomena
For those readers in the Chicago area, or planning a trip through, there is now a special attraction at St. John Cantius, a faithful replica of the famous Wit Stwosz altarpiece of Krakow, Poland.

The original altarpiece, built over a 12-year period from 1477 to 1489 by the master carver of Nuremberg, Wit Stwosz, features a five-part polychromed and gilded limewood sculpture depicting the life of the Virgin Mary.

Veit Stoss. His name was Veit Stoss. Not Wit Stwosz.

http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/s/stoss/
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14310a.htm

Damn, the article can't even get a simple detail like his name correct. Its like calling our President, Georg Busch. Its hard to trust anything else said after that sort of error.

38 posted on 09/24/2004 6:41:25 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: SuziQ

"Yes, much of it is pedestrian, but at least it gets people used to singing, and they can be convinced to sing other BETTER music later on."

I sing only Catholic music in church. If it has an OCP copyright, I don't trust it.
It is now "later on" and I am convinced.


39 posted on 09/24/2004 6:42:37 AM PDT by rogator
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To: thor76

"It almost makes you want to burn the missalettes!"

What do you mean "almost"!


40 posted on 09/24/2004 6:44:26 AM PDT by rogator
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To: Dominick
Thankfully we have a choir director who is very diligent about choosing music that 'illuminates' the Scripture readings. She and the organist work hard to bring beautiful music to our Parish. We have several Masses on a weekend. The 7:30 am crowd HATES music because it makes the Mass too long (sad), the 9:00 Mass crowd likes the SLJ music and the folky stuff, like the music I used to play in the 70's (still doing Penance for playing 'Blowin in the Wind' at Mass ;o)

The 11:00 Mass is the one with the pipe organ and full choir. I'm not in that choir simply because I didn't want to make the time commitment yet. I sing in the Festival Choir, which sings special Masses like the Masses for the Pastor's 40th and Associate's 25th Anniversaries of Ordination. We also sing the Christmas Midnight Mass with a brief Festival of Lessons and Carols beforehand, and Easter Mass. The organist started the Festival choir because the 11:00 Mass Choir was mostly older folks who didn't want to come out and sing Midnight Mass when our Pastor re-instated it in the mid 90's. We get a great group of folks who are there to sing because we LOVE it, and we are always told how much the music enhances peoples' enjoyment of the Mass. That's what GOOD music is supposed to do.

41 posted on 09/24/2004 6:52:59 AM PDT by SuziQ (Bush in 2004-Because we MUST!!!)
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To: Dominick

"I think the participation of the Faithful is important, and is forced by the Novus Ordo."

Uh, huh. Yep. On the nose. ****Forced.****

That's not something that should be forced. If a person wants to sit or kneel immoble throughout the Mass without interacting with the other parishoners, he should be free to do so.

"I disagree about the music being the central place for the Mass, it is an enhancement to Mass."

Spot on. Except, of course, that sometimes it is a detriment.

"If people are worshiping more devoutly by singing a song that is theologically correct even though it may be banal, then that is a good thing."

It's not as good as some of the other alternatives, and frankly, I'm hard put to visualize banality leading to increased devotion or deeper spirituality.


42 posted on 09/24/2004 7:03:17 AM PDT by dsc
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To: afraidfortherepublic

"Music had all but disappeared from regular parish masses before Vatican II."

I very much miss a twenty- to thirty-minute weekday Mass. You don't need hymns at every Mass.

"Unless it was a "high" Mass for a special occasion, such as Easter or Christmas, the standard was that NO music was offered and no hymns were sung. Add the prohibition against any hymns written by Martin Luther, and the Catholic Church was absent anything singable."

Which is exactly as it should be. The Catholic Church should not be imitating protestant services, and especially should not be singing music written by heretics.

Much better to have great music on special occasions than a steady diet of crap forced down your throat.


43 posted on 09/24/2004 7:10:51 AM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc
"I think the participation of the Faithful is important, and is forced by the Novus Ordo."

Uh, huh. Yep. On the nose. ****Forced.****


As opposed to optional or dropped. The worst Novus Ordo Mass I attended, that was licit, was one where the Priest did everything right, in about 15 min. The responses are there for any do do if then liked. Sure, you can kneel immobile. Nobody forces anyone in that sense, what I mean if that to follow the rubrics, the responses from the faithful are required. If that Priest didn't have those, I swear that Mass could have been less than 10 minutes.

It's not as good as some of the other alternatives, and frankly, I'm hard put to visualize banality leading to increased devotion or deeper spirituality.

I find the Catholic radio station horrid to the extreme, except at certain times when they slow it down and play classical music. I tolerate it because my Daughter does better listening to that than Radio Disney. (This is Radio Disney, buy buy buy buy buy buy buy!)

I agree with you otherwise, to me it is banal and a distraction, to a 17yo, it is moving, and helps him worship more deeply. I take it as penance.
44 posted on 09/24/2004 7:16:54 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Dominick
Great article, especially the Dan Schutte information.

Brian/Proud2BRC/Polycarp, thanks for your efforts!

While I really enjoy the beauty of the Traditional Latin Mass largely due to its unshakeable reverence, a properly done Novus Ordo Mass is also beautiful. Problem is, the NO is almost never properly done.

45 posted on 09/24/2004 7:45:36 AM PDT by d-back
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To: Dominick

"I agree with you otherwise, to me it is banal and a distraction, to a 17yo, it is moving, and helps him worship more deeply. I take it as penance."

Maybe I was just lucky to start playing an instrument in grade school. By the time I was in high school I knew well that the classics were a much higher form of art than pop or rock and roll. My high school and college friends were often quite put out at me for putting classical music on when they wanted garbage.

The point being that, as with so many things, the ability to appreciate great music is a matter of education and exposure. But that's perception. As a matter of objective reality, classical music is superior to pop or R&R just like a fine vintage wine is objectively superior to Boone's Farm Crawdad Hill.


46 posted on 09/24/2004 7:47:23 AM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc

"The Catholic Church should not be imitating protestant services, and especially should not be singing music written by heretics."

That would eliminate 90+% of the music in our parish.


47 posted on 09/24/2004 7:48:47 AM PDT by rogator
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To: d-back

"Problem is, the NO is almost never properly done."

That's not surprising, is it? It was conceived as a means of lessening reverence and attacking faith.


48 posted on 09/24/2004 7:49:41 AM PDT by dsc
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To: rogator

"That would eliminate 90+% of the music in our parish."

My rule, written during NO masses in an ink made from powdered molar and bloody sweat, is this:

Look at the first digit of the year in which the music was written. If it's a "2," burn it immediately.

If it's not a "2," look at the second digit. If it's a "9," burn it immediately.

If it's an "8" or lower number, then look at the author, the history, the theology, and the musical worth of the piece and make a decision.

I also think that every parish should be equipped with an automatic guitar detector that locks on to any guitar within 100 meters and targets it with at least a dozen RPGs.


49 posted on 09/24/2004 7:56:11 AM PDT by dsc
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To: sinkspur
your bud associates words from a song used at Novus Ordo Masses with gays.

It's not just an "association." The guy who wrote these songs left the priesthood to live with a homosexual partner. Those are simple facts. No one needs to create elaborate theories when the facts are in plain sight.

50 posted on 09/24/2004 7:59:04 AM PDT by Maximilian
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