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To: kipita; shubi
Remember entropy, the force behind the big bang and the awesome power of the universe, predicts systems should “evolve” from a state of order to disorder. Evolution, observed on the planet Earth, predicts systems are evolving from a state of disorder to order.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the entropy of a closed system will decrease or remain constant.

The key word is "closed".

If anything can pass into, or out of, a system, we say it is an open system. If only matter can pass into, or out of, a system, but not energy, then we call it a closed system. If neither matter nor energy can pass into, or out of, a system, then we call it an isolated system.

Biological systems are not isolated or closed systems as they depend on the energy from an outside source: .......... Sunlight.

"Order" in biological systems is only made possible by the consumption of energy that is produced at the cost of increasing entropy in the Sun.

For example, truckloads of lumber, cement and hardwear are delivered to a vacant lot you own. Through your muscle power, which comes from your food energy, which comes from photosynthesis, which is made possible by sunlight which is made possible by increasing the entropy of the Sun, you can take that material and build a house.

You arrived at order (a house) from disorder (a pile of building material) by supplying energy.

The Sun is the source of energy input to the Earth's living systems and allows them to evolve, hunt, breed, construct, Freep, etc.

244 posted on 12/05/2004 11:22:13 PM PST by Polybius
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To: Polybius

"If anything can pass into, or out of, a system, we say it is an open system. If only matter can pass into, or out of, a system, but not energy, then we call it a closed system. If neither matter nor energy can pass into, or out of, a system, then we call it an isolated system.

Biological systems are not isolated or closed systems as they depend on the energy from an outside source: .......... Sunlight.

"Order" in biological systems is only made possible by the consumption of energy that is produced at the cost of increasing entropy in the Sun."

Right! But other planets in our solar system are open, the planets around some of the other stars are open, the effect of gravitational forces are open, yet the observable forces in the universe are entropy forces. Furthermore, being a analytical chemist, all that I have observed (dead things)follows entropy. From a very general perspective, I think the different "driving" forces represent lifeless (entropy) vs. life (evolution/creationism) and, to say the least, Earth is very unique.


267 posted on 12/06/2004 11:47:45 PM PST by kipita (Rebel the proletariat response to Aristocracy and Exploitation.)
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To: Polybius

Ironic, I searched the Internet and found the following, which is a better argument from a fellow chemist.

"According to modern evolutionary theory, the recipe for life is a chance accumulation of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, and oxygen; add a pinch of phosphorus and sulfur, simmer for millions of years, and repeat if necessary. As a Ph.D. organic chemist, I am trained to understand the principles of chemistry, but this is not how chemicals react. Chemicals reacting with chemicals is a chemical reaction, and chemical reactions do not produce life. Life must create life. In the chemical literature, there is not a single example of life resulting from a chemical reaction. If life from chemicals were possible, it would be called spontaneous generation, an idea that scientists once thought happened in nature. Centuries ago, scientists used to believe that bread crumbs turned into mice because if you left bread crumbs on a table and returned later, the crumbs were gone and only mice were present. When true science got involved, they learned the truth that bread crumbs only attracted the mice that ate the crumbs. These scientists were quick to propose a theory that sounded reasonable until, that is, they studied the process and learned otherwise.

Proteins and DNA are complicated chemical molecules that are present within our body. Cells which make up the living body contain DNA, the blueprint for all life, and proteins regulating biochemical processes, leading scientists to conclude these components are the cause of life. While it is true that all living bodies have proteins and DNA, so do dead bodies. These chemicals are necessary for life to exist, but they do not "create" life by their presence; they only "maintain" the life that is already present. However, this is not the only problem with the "life from chemicals" theory.........."

http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-374.htm





269 posted on 12/07/2004 12:34:18 AM PST by kipita (Rebel the proletariat response to Aristocracy and Exploitation.)
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