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Evolution ruling gets cheers from scientists (Forced removal of evolution 'warning' on textbooks.)
CNN ^

Posted on 01/15/2005 2:06:00 PM PST by Happy2BMe

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- Since 2002, Dr. Kenneth Miller has been upset that biology textbooks he has written are slapped with a warning sticker by the time they appear in suburban Atlanta schools. Evolution, the stickers say, is "a theory, not a fact."

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


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KEYWORDS: activistcourts; activistjudge; astickerisnotprayer; atheism; brainwashing; cannotbeproven; cannotrepeat; crevolist; culturewar; evolution; indoctrination; judicialtyranny; pc; piltdownman; politicallycorrect; publicschools; reeducationcenter; religiousintolerance; scienceeducation; scopestrial; secularhumanism; socialagenda; takenonfaith; taxdollarsatwork; textbooks; themissinglink; theorynotfact; theoryofevolution; warninglabels; youpayforthis
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Another move to lie to our children about the 'theory' of evolution being 'fact.'
1 posted on 01/15/2005 2:06:00 PM PST by Happy2BMe
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To: Happy2BMe

Actually, to split a hair, evolution is a "fact." A fact is something that is either true or false, as distinguished from an opinion. Evolution, indeed, the entire materialist view of life, is either true or false; therefore, it is a "fact."


2 posted on 01/15/2005 2:09:54 PM PST by Tax-chick (I think the world needs a drink!)
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To: Happy2BMe

I believe in evolution... and ya, I think it is pretty much fact.... what do you think of that?


3 posted on 01/15/2005 2:10:45 PM PST by Porterville (Never compromise what is right. Take your time to insult a liberal or have one unemployed.)
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To: Happy2BMe

Boy are they in for a suprise when they find out Santas not fact!!


4 posted on 01/15/2005 2:11:49 PM PST by handy old one (Never confuse the facts with the issues!!)
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To: Happy2BMe
"I myself am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially the extent to which it's been applied, will be one of the great jokes in the history books in the future. Posterity will marvel that so flimsy and dubious an hypothesis could be accepted with the incredible credulity that it has." -- Malcolm Muggeridge.

"The evidence for Darwinism is not only grossly inadequate, it's systematically distorted. I'm convinced that sometime in the not-to-distant future, people will look back in amazement and say, 'How could anyone have believed this?' Darwinism is merely materialistic philosophy masquerading as science." Jonathan Well, Ph.D. in molecular and cell biology, specializing in vertebrate embryology, 1994, from UC Berkeley.

5 posted on 01/15/2005 2:15:14 PM PST by My2Cents
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To: Happy2BMe

If the Theory of Evolution isn't a theory, why is it universally called a "theory"?


6 posted on 01/15/2005 2:15:32 PM PST by Gritty ("The notion 'Muslim world', is more acceptable to Progressives than 'The Christian World'-Mark Steyn)
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To: Porterville
what do you think of that?

TROLL!

7 posted on 01/15/2005 2:16:05 PM PST by My2Cents
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To: Happy2BMe

The High Priests of Naturalism are upset at any questioning of their religious orthodoxy.


8 posted on 01/15/2005 2:20:51 PM PST by Ahban
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To: Porterville

You are living proof of evolution TROLL!


9 posted on 01/15/2005 2:21:10 PM PST by zzen01
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: zzen01

My response to the ardent evolutionist is, "If you say your ancestors climbed out of a slime pit, I'm inclined to believe you."


11 posted on 01/15/2005 2:23:00 PM PST by My2Cents
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To: SnoopyDog

Many years ago, I read about a court decision which declared secular humanism to be a religion. This hasn't stopped it from being taught in public schools.


12 posted on 01/15/2005 2:24:15 PM PST by My2Cents
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To: Happy2BMe

I hate that it came to this, but I prefer this result to having scientific illiterates decide what goes in or on science books.

And before I too get accused of being a troll, you might want to look at my five year posting history on FR.


13 posted on 01/15/2005 2:24:59 PM PST by Joe Bonforte
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To: Porterville

Hmm....O.K. So you're one of the faithful believers?


14 posted on 01/15/2005 2:25:39 PM PST by Banjoguy ("The business of the Church is business"......)
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To: Joe Bonforte
Before you start throwing sticks at "scientific illiterates" you should take a look at this.
15 posted on 01/15/2005 2:32:08 PM PST by My2Cents
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To: Tax-chick
What makes evolution any less of a religion than creationism?

Our ancestors founded their beliefs according to these scientists by observing the world around them and making assumptions. This according to them is the foundation of religion.

Sounds like modern day scientific literature and theories would meet the same definition.
16 posted on 01/15/2005 2:32:18 PM PST by dila813
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To: zzen01; My2Cents; Porterville

Porterville is no troll - he's been posting for over 2 years!


17 posted on 01/15/2005 2:35:44 PM PST by Blzbba (Conservative Republican - Less gov't, less spending, less intrusion.)
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To: Blzbba

(Psst...I was pulling his leg.)


18 posted on 01/15/2005 2:37:04 PM PST by My2Cents
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To: Porterville

If you believe so much in Evolution then take this
challenge,

http://drdino.com/Ministry/250k/index.jsp


19 posted on 01/15/2005 2:38:05 PM PST by zzen01
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To: My2Cents

Amazing the number of agnostics, atheists, and relativists we have pinging around these days . .


20 posted on 01/15/2005 2:38:50 PM PST by Happy2BMe ("Islam fears democracy worse than anything- If the imams can't control it - they will kill it.)
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To: Joe Bonforte
I hate that it came to this, but I prefer this result to having scientific illiterates decide what goes in or on science books.

True, and likewise astrologers would resent non-astrologers deciding what is in an astrology book. But we wouldn't want our school children indoctrinated with astrology. Neither should we accept children being indoctrinated with the fairy tale of macro-evolution which no man has seen take place.

21 posted on 01/15/2005 2:40:05 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Porterville

Let me make everyone happy. Here is a piece entitled Evolution is a Fact and A Theory.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

I recommend it.




22 posted on 01/15/2005 2:40:52 PM PST by freespirited
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To: zzen01; My2Cents
Whoa! (#19)

====================================

$250,000 to prove that the hypothesis of evolution is nothing more than a religion!

23 posted on 01/15/2005 2:41:28 PM PST by Happy2BMe ("Islam fears democracy worse than anything- If the imams can't control it - they will kill it.)
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To: Porterville
You say you believe in evolution.   How about this:  Kings 7:23 specifically describes a round sea 10 cubits across and 30 cubits in circumference.  Maybe we need a sticker that says "PI is theory, not fact".
24 posted on 01/15/2005 2:47:02 PM PST by expat_panama
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: zzen01
If you believe so much in Evolution then take this challenge,

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA!

Awwwww, your little con-man is actually broke and going to jail.

26 posted on 01/15/2005 2:53:58 PM PST by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: expat_panama

I'll see your 30 cubits... and I'll raise you 1 tsunami !!! ;-))


27 posted on 01/15/2005 2:56:07 PM PST by GeekDejure ( LOL = Liberals Obey Lucifer !!!)
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To: Porterville

It's amazing that the scientific evidence that life begins at conception and that abortion causes breast cancer is more compelling than the absurd belief that everything came out of nothing, and yet, which one gets hyped for being scientific "truth"unquestioned and portrayed as unasailable?


28 posted on 01/15/2005 2:56:19 PM PST by NATIVEDAUGHTER
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To: My2Cents

I've never understood why "evolution" and it's teaching as fact have never been attacked as an imposition of religious dogma and thereby violates the Separation of Church and State....


29 posted on 01/15/2005 2:59:02 PM PST by NATIVEDAUGHTER
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Happy2BMe

It amazes me as well. But, then, I was once among their number.


31 posted on 01/15/2005 3:09:17 PM PST by My2Cents
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To: Happy2BMe

Ya got that right


32 posted on 01/15/2005 3:10:16 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Secularization of America is happening)
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To: Javelina
How are you defining "religion"?

The poster can answer for herself, but I think the point is that evolution is based more upon a system of belief, where "evidence" is interpreted to conform to that belief, than it is a system based upon science.

33 posted on 01/15/2005 3:10:57 PM PST by My2Cents
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To: Gin and Sex
But the relationship between radii of circles and pi is more of a law or tautology than a theory...by Gin and Sex-

Wait a second, you want to believe that the ratio of circumference to diameter is three like it says in Kings or 3.14159...  like those pointy headed so-called math experts say?

Seriously folks (I was being facetious), maybe it wouldn't hurt to be a little more flexible and relaxed when it comes to our understanding of our scriptures versus someone else's understanding of his scriptures.

34 posted on 01/15/2005 3:12:11 PM PST by expat_panama
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To: Porterville

Right on !


35 posted on 01/15/2005 3:21:45 PM PST by Phatnbald (Out of my cold dead hands)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Lots of things happen that no man has ever seen- what of it ?


36 posted on 01/15/2005 3:25:10 PM PST by Phatnbald (Out of my cold dead hands)
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To: Phatnbald
Lots of things happen that no man has ever seen- what of it ?

Man has not seen God create the universe in six days. The man who asserts this creation is said to be speaking from faith.

Man has not seen life evolve from different kinds of life over million of years and yet this viewpoint is said to be based on facts apart from faith.

Why do so many hold to this double standard? If the public schools are not a proper venue for one of these faiths, why should it be a proper venue for the other?

37 posted on 01/15/2005 3:36:36 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: My2Cents
The poster can answer for herself, but I think the point is that evolution is based more upon a system of belief, where "evidence" is interpreted to conform to that belief, than it is a system based upon science.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA!

As opposed to the ID/IOT beliefs of ...


The Raelians!?

38 posted on 01/15/2005 4:02:56 PM PST by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: balrog666

Nice pic. Looks like the vessel from "Flight of the Navigator."


39 posted on 01/15/2005 4:04:43 PM PST by My2Cents
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To: My2Cents

The judge's ruling in this case is beyond bizarre, and takes judicial activism to a whole new level. If any locals are reading this thread, I assume the school board has an appeals path available; will they use it or just drop the whole thing because of the expense and hassle involved?

MM


40 posted on 01/15/2005 4:09:15 PM PST by MississippiMan (Americans should not be sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.)
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To: My2Cents
"But, then, I was once among their number."

=============================

Good reminder. Thanks.

41 posted on 01/15/2005 4:09:26 PM PST by Happy2BMe ("Islam fears democracy worse than anything- If the imams can't control it - they will kill it.)
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To: dila813
Do you actually believe that with all the bombardment reproductive DNA has received, it has never once been altered? Or perhaps you believe that if it was altered, it was too few times to make any difference, or that this somehow made no change in the next generation, even of that one organism? Or perhaps if it made changes, these changes soon faded away, whether they were beneficial or not?

That seems pretty close to a superstition to me.

42 posted on 01/15/2005 4:16:38 PM PST by firebrand
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To: Gritty
why is it universally called a "theory"?

It is called a therory to expose people who do not understand science.

The theory behind this is that people who do not understand science will apply the laymen's defintion of "theory" to the word and thus reveal their lack of understanding about science.

43 posted on 01/15/2005 4:41:26 PM PST by Jeff Gordon (Now is the time for all wise men to gloat. FOUR MORE YEARS,)
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To: My2Cents; Colonel Kangaroo

So here's the facts guys, whether you like 'em or not. 99.9% of biologists consider evolution to be the bed-rock of biology. The basic principles are even being applied to other fields, like economics, in which self-organizing systems are an important area of study. (You guys are conservatives, right? You do believe in self-organizing economies instead of command-and-control ones?)

But you guys think some double-talking pseudo-scientists should get equal time in science classrooms. Hey, it's your call to support such silliness. But I'm telling you - as Arnold would say "This does not help our mission". It just brands you to the rest of the world as kooks, including to many conservatives and co-religionists.

We've got a lot on our plate. A federal welfare state that must be fixed or it's going to doom our kids to poverty. A large population of religious fanatics anxious to blow us all up in exchange for 72 virgins. But you want to spend your time promoting something that even your allies don't believe.

Look, we've got an educational system that can't even teach basic math and English. And you're worried about whether Sunday School stories get told in science class. Sorry, but I consider your priorities clearly out of whack.

Now, you can go ahead and sputter all you like from this point. I long ago learned not to argue with people about their faith. But I still think you ought to rethink your priorities, even if you'll never agree about evolution.


44 posted on 01/15/2005 4:48:05 PM PST by Joe Bonforte
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: My2Cents
I think the point is that evolution is based more upon a system of belief, where "evidence" is interpreted to conform to that belief, than it is a system based upon science.

Piltdown man says, "Yes!"

46 posted on 01/15/2005 4:49:30 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: Tax-chick
Actually, to split a hair, evolution is a "fact." A fact is something that is either true or false, as distinguished from an opinion. Evolution, indeed, the entire materialist view of life, is either true or false; therefore, it is a "fact."

Not sure where you learned that a fact is either true or false. Was that at a liberal school?

"fact" at dictionary.com

47 posted on 01/15/2005 4:53:28 PM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp
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To: Joe Bonforte

While I don't believe that creationism should be taught in schools, why is there such a need to teach evolution at all?

We can study extinct species without saying "this species begat this one". The jury is still out. Scientists in different nations cannot agree on where man originated or how he came to populate different continents. There may have been some foot travel but there may also have been some boat voyages.

You are right that there are a lot of other things to teach children. So teach them those things that are known rather than those things that are suspected.

Is much time spent on the big bang theory in elementary and high schools?

How about man made global warming which is also a "scientifically" supported theory in some minds?


48 posted on 01/15/2005 4:56:15 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: expat_panama
the ratio of circumference to diameter is three like it says in Kings or 3.14159

I would like to propose a theory about the degree of correctness of the bible. The bible says the ratio of the circumference to diameter is 3.0. It is a modern "law or tautology" that the ratio is 3.14159 (+ a little more).

If we divide 3 by 3.14159 we should get an actual measure of the correctness of the bible. This demonstrates that bible is 95.5% accurate.

If we assume that the a part of the 4.5% error is in the creation story, we can put these crevo debates to bed forever.

49 posted on 01/15/2005 4:59:47 PM PST by Jeff Gordon (Now is the time for all wise men to gloat. FOUR MORE YEARS,)
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To: Joe Bonforte

Nice post- they say I'm a Troll cause im new to FR and live by science, but you said it all brother.

You CAN be a conservative and still understand the scientific method.

You cant just pick and choose which parts of objective reality appeal to your politics- talk about relativism !

Show me any evidence against evolution derived from the scientific method, and I'll gladly agree that it did not happen.

Here come the cranks !


50 posted on 01/15/2005 5:09:09 PM PST by Phatnbald (Out of my cold dead hands)
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