Posted on 05/20/2005 1:28:39 PM PDT by DannyTN
Congratulations on the outstanding scientific and theological exchanges offered here, are in order to many commenators.
The greatest value that these threads have represented, to my thinking, has been to demonstrate the nature of wghat is religious faith.
When it is admitted by the leftist atheists of our society that theirs is a religion, by definition ( i.e. having scripture, sacraments, holy relics, prophets, worship services and a great many other marks of religions), it will needs be removed absolutely from public schools.
It is a much more important and much deeper truth that public schools in this nation have never stopped professing religion, the nature of the professed faiths has simply shifted from Christianity to Darwinism; a death cult dedicated at its end to racism on unimaginable scales.
Please, pick up a freshman biology book and begin to read; you'll find there is ample evidence pointing to evolution and that we know plenty about it. How you reconcile this with your faith is your business; it doesn't change the observed facts that lead to a solid foundation of evolutionary theory.
My dear sir:
Since you claim that there is "ample evidence" for macroevolution after the style of Darwinist Naturalism and expect me to pay, via involuntary confiscation through taxation, for the teaching of the same to school children, it now falls to you to present such evidence, for I know of none such.
I am however, desirous of knowledge and I must admit that I could be mistaken on this subject; I am not a natural scientist, nor a subject matter expert in evolutionism or creationism.
I am sincerely seeking more light on the subject.
I respectfully challenge you to here give in your own phraseology, one such singular piece of "ample evidence" as you have above alluded to.
The introduction of the same will aid greatly in this exchange.
I thank you in advance for your courtesy.
your servant,
-B.
Why is this in the smokey back room?
Since after five days, I have no response from Mr. 'Quark 2005' I now extend his challenge to anyone reading this post( see above for terms )
I couldn't agree with you more - I think you hit the nail right on the head. We can preserve good science research and learning and still allow plenty of room for God; I personally see no other way to explain the beauty of the observable universe.
My only problem is when people make the audacious claim that they've used scientific data to logically prove the existence of God (the basic essence of so-called "Intelligent Design Theory", as advocated by the Discovery Institute et.al.). This is both shoddy science and bad theology. God cannot be reduced to a scientific prediction - science simply has't demonstrated itself to be that powerful.
"Intelligent Design" is a wonderful idea; "Intelligent Design Theory" is the problem.
The unfortunate fact about any forum such as this is that it leaves little space & time for discussing HUGE topics. The question you ask is a good one and a big one (I'm paraphrasing) - what solid evidences does evolution have in support of it? I have to honestly say that the fact you don't believe it just because you're told to is an admirable quality - skepticism serves one well in science.
I'm not even gonna try to list every bit of convincing evidence that points toward evolution (I have no time or desire to write a whole book here); if you're earnest in your search for information, I'll point toward a couple resources that I think are good (i.e. I haven't caught them making a significant scientific error, their references are reputable science sources)).
talkorigins.org is a very large site that has a lot of info on about every subtopic one could ask for; I think the two most useful links to the site are
29+ Evidences for Macroevolution
The best (i.e. most comprehensive and accessible to a layperson) book I know of on the subject is
Evolution: The Triumph of an Idea by Carl Zimmer
That being said, I'd be glad to check out any references you'd like to point me in the direction of, assuming it's from a reputable source (i.e. something that can't be debunked with high school science). (By the way, don't say the Bible, only because I've almost finished reading it cover to cover over the past year (on Hebrews now) - it's been an interesting journey). My opinion of this theory is not dogmatic - I would change my mind given significant proof (though it would take a lot, I admit, given the strength of the theories).
Before you say anything else, I will concede to you that given the following two possibilities, there's no way science can tell the difference:
1) The universe was born out of a Big Bang ~15 billion years ago, the earth formed ~5.5 billion years ago, the first known organisms appeared ~3.5 billion years, slowly evolving until the Cambrian explosion some ~600 million years ago, when biodiversity exploded, and evolution eventually gave rise to primitive humans within the last few million years, with the first primitive civilizations appearing around ~20000 years ago.
OR
2) None of this happened at all, but God created a universe, earth and biosphere with the appearance of all this having happened.
Neither I nor science nor anyone can discern between these two possibilities (though either one would make evolution a valid theory and paradigm for discovery).
Good luck to you.
I have actually met Ken Ham!
Nice guy, asked the audience who has tasted vegamite, I almost puked, he saw me and chuckled.
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