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SHANGO'S RIDDLE
Shango | 8/1/05 | Shango

Posted on 08/01/2005 12:37:53 PM PDT by TexKat

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company

Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity.

The resolution to find Mary lies with the Arawak Nation

Dirty Hand has bound the Arawak Nation with Babylonian Rope

The Lamb and the two Shivas whisper in the dark,

while the lions pace silently in the bush.

Dirty Hand is the link!

The lamb, the shivas, the elder whispering, exiting like theives in the night, clothed with invisible armor

If Dirty Hand falls, so does Babylon, but too, the Arawak Nation shall suffer.

Threadsurfers listen!

The lamb shall run anew in virgin fields, cropping sweet grass which should remain untouched.

The Lamb has sins, but the lions have sharper teeth.

A new key must be found to open unknown doors.

The first concern of the Arawak nation is wampum.

But unseen tides pull babylonian seas through Arawak Moats, bittering the waters.

DirtyHand and the Lions must see the light of Arawak Day, or forever walk in plentiful fields.

The dead shall eternally sleep if a clamour is not made.

Lamb and the Elder are stepping stones into the fetid pool of deception.

The rule of the Arawak King is the Final word.

DirtyHand has fouled the air for all nearby, but the Arawak Nation will claim Babylonian Authority prevents them from hunting Lions, and DirtyHand.

But the Arawak king controls destiny of all. The Arawak king has DirtyHands and DirtyFeet. If he is to reign anew, he cannot be soiled more.

The babylonians have ruled the Arawak Nation through deception and stealth, and their charges, the Arawaks, speak now with the same forked tongue, on behalf of their king.

The gift the cowboys ask of the king of the Arawak Nation is a mere trifle.

All ye who sing in the cyber-chorus lower your voices not!

It has been proven that the lamb, the shivas, and the elders are not the breach in Arawak Armour!

Let us hunt Lions, The King, and Dirty Hand.

The lions pace silently in the bush, while the king seeks pleasures with his concubines.

Threadsurfers! What is sought is not hidden.

The Lamb and the elder are not the keystone in the Arch of Corruption.

Seek ye DirtyHand and the Fetid Arawak King who wishes to blame the babylonians for the behaviour of lowly minions.

If the head of the beast is in plain view it is folly to attack protected flanks.

Threadsurfers, DirtyHand is more vulnerable than the Arawak King and your lances should point in his direction.

He is the weak link, if he tumbles, all fall with him….. The lamb, the shivas, the elder

Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth. He does not converse with the Simian, or any other worldly sources, and attempts to bring direction to speculation

I must feed the messengers

The gods are talking


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: acousticsoul; armin; arminsolognier; aruba; arubagirl; arubagirlscousin; codes; cousinofarubagirl; floresmurder; holloway; jairo; jairoboekhoudt; joran; joranvandersloot; natalee; nataleeholloway; rhymes; shango; shangocodes; shangoisidentified; shangoisnowknown; shangorhymes; shangosidentity; shangosimian; simian; stephanyflores; vandersloot
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Shango Says:

Shango does not fear the Simian

Shango feels the Simian speaks speculatively

desiring to know, but remaining clothed in darkness

1 posted on 08/01/2005 12:37:59 PM PDT by TexKat
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To: truthluva; Dark Skies; monkeywrench; Froufrou; bolta_lightnin

SHANGO'S RIDDLE ping


2 posted on 08/01/2005 12:44:36 PM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: TexKat

Thx TK, you're the greatest!


3 posted on 08/01/2005 12:45:37 PM PDT by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies

ok, does anyone have the list that has all the clues and what they "mean"?


4 posted on 08/01/2005 12:49:23 PM PDT by psychedelicate63
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To: TexKat

I'm behind here......who is Shango?


5 posted on 08/01/2005 12:53:42 PM PDT by bonfire (dwindler)
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To: TexKat

Bookmark.


6 posted on 08/01/2005 12:54:17 PM PDT by Abigail Adams
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bookmark


7 posted on 08/01/2005 12:55:23 PM PDT by maggief (No 'luffs')
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To: bonfire

http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=CLB01002&read=6937


9 posted on 08/01/2005 12:56:38 PM PDT by psychedelicate63
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To: truthluva

Oh, man. The format s@#$%. Can anyone fix it?


10 posted on 08/01/2005 12:57:17 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: truthluva

Eeeew! Html is our friend! lol


11 posted on 08/01/2005 12:57:48 PM PDT by Rippersnapper (Personal accountability doesn't begin and stop with the other person.)
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To: psychedelicate63

Thanks much.


12 posted on 08/01/2005 1:02:27 PM PDT by bonfire (dwindler)
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To: Rippersnapper

Okay...try this.


One straight path

to the house of Rave,

while of gold bricks

the road is not paved,
(dirt or ... unpaved road)

answers mysterious lie within

magical letters which spell sin

XTC DNA
(The house of rave is out in the country where the roads are not paved.)

Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
(Babalu identifies (Van der Stratten) as a possibility in one of his posts.)


DirtyHand is alive
(Van Der Straaten's involvement comes to light/ ident discovered)


Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist

that door to Truth remains closed

until the house with the path

But not of gold

is entered


DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
(Van Der Straaten is in the know with both sides and is helping PVDS)

The gods are talking
(People of Shango's nature, people that know whats going on in aruba)


Outsiders brought into the Arawak tribe walk in many circles, nameless


DirtyHand can bring down all houses
(Van Der Straaten knowledge can uncover all the criminal activities)

DirtyHand is the key
(Van Der Straaten is the key to solving the crime)

His reach is long
(Van Der Straaten knows everything that goes on)

He walks in all circles
(Van Der Straaten knows a lot of people of all types)


consort to all, except for the gods
(Van der Stratten knows and perhaps gives advice or takes bribes from all, except for those of Shangos nature.)


He knows the sacrifice is not responsible
(Van der Stratten knows Joran is not responsible)


Of whom is the young Babylonian afraid?
(Who is Joran Afraid of, who has that power)?

Why won’t he talk?
(Scared enough not to talk)


The dice throwers know
(The Casino Dealers/gamblers know)

the maze of the rave
(Maybe not a literal, but saying Dealers/gamblers know the inner workings of how things work on the island)

and the fly that entered the trap
(and of NH entering into what shango calls "the Trap". Meaning she was setup or possibly a trap that is always there for this purpose. Traps are planned)

DirtyHand is the key

(again .... Van Der Straaten knows everthing)

He walks in many circles
(Van Der Straaten knows a lot of people of all types)

Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles
(They were never at the beach. )

Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles
(They were never at the beach. )

Shango Says: DRAX SCORES
(Meaning DRAX is correct about them not being at the beach)

DirtyHand knows this
(Van Der Straaten Knows this)

Children of the Elders play in the maze,
(Children of Island officials party or are involved in illegal activities that go on)

but DirtyHand is afraid to rave
(Van Der Straaten is afraid to party - Obviously not cool for the Polis chief to do illegal things putting himself in a vunerable position of equal leverage)

Babylonians and Shivas do not play with sandcastles
(Don't follow Jorans lies about the beach, the ones we need to find are not at the beach).

Follow the music!
(Find where "raves" take place or possibly a band)

Mary who was not a Virgin entered the maze to discover it’s secrets
(I don't believe that shango would know if NH was a virgin in the biblical sense - So I tend to believe that shango is saying NH had been to this location before - however maybe not while there was a party/rave going on.)

The lamb is scared
(Joran gets scared)

The fires are lit
(Someone gives a warning Joran a warning/signal/sign)

But now the lamb is a goat
(Joran doesn't realize he's got a big problem and by his own actions has made himself the perfect scape-goat)

Mary never heard the buoy toll
(NH didn't see what was going on around her () and did not hear/see the warning)

ask the men who play dice and “roll”
(The Dealers /gamblers at the casinos know that NH never saw it comming. Talk to them.)

Follow the music

The DiceMen must be questioned.
(Dealers and Casino players must be questioned)

They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
(They attend the same partys)

Mary who was not a virgin entered
(Again - Possibly stating that NH had been there before)

The DiceMen ROLLED
(Casino Dealers or Players were high XTC, rolled being the term used for someone high or taking X)

Mary ROLLED
(NH was high on X, whether or not she was willing - she was rolling/high)

Mary ROLLED through the Maze
(NH was high and was lead through the underground)

There is more than one house of music
(there is more then one rave/party location. I think he points this out as to say "you need to pick the right one")

the Lamb is a Scapegoat
(Joran will take the blame)

The Lamb returned to the fold
(Joran went home)

Mary Rolled
And the lions played
(Joran ran away, Natalee was still high/drugged and I think you can guess the rest.)

Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers
(shango says this when ever someone correctly posted a reply to his comments. ThreadSurfers are of course Blogers and the like. Opening windows in to babylon = understanding what happened and what is going on)

The maze offers many hidden desires
(I'd say sick desires, but none the less he's pointing to drugs, sex etc.)

deflowerings of forbidden fruits
(Rapes or have attracted types that desire these activities. Deflowering "taking away the virginity of a women or to possibly destroy their innocence. Forbidden Fruits = usually is an indulgence or a pleasure that is illegal or is believed to be immoral)

DirtyHand knows.
(once again Van Der Straaten is aware of this fact)

So does the elder.
(So does PVDS)

The lamb is a scapegoat.
(Joran is going to be blamed)

DirtyHand has walked through the maze
(Van Der Straaten has been thought the party clique)

He knows of the forbidden fruit
(he knows of the illegal and imoral activities)

and the gardeners
(and those that take care or "host" them)

Why do they leave the Maze open?
(Why are raves still taking place?)

Why hasn’t an Arawak probed it’s fetid depths.
(Why hasn't anyone looked in to it?)

Tell the Cowboys!
(Tell the Americans/searchers)

The Arawaks are hiding the path to the Maze for the Babylonians.
(Islanders are hiding the way to the rave/party for the Dutch/boys)

All know of the music
(Everyone knows of the rave/partys)

beckoning lost souls

to enter the seven levels of inferno

who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
(Who Drugged NH ? )

Enter the Maze.
(find the rave/party network go there)

Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post


DirtyHand does not play with the lions
(Van Der Straaten Doesn't partake in activities with drug/ cartels)

but he has entered the maze
(Obviously Van Der Straaten has been to the location where this "party/rave" took place - he knows where it is.)

the lamb is a scapegoat
(Joran will be blamed)

DirtyHand knows
(Van Der Straaten knows this)

So does the Elder
(So does PVDS)

Follow the music
into the maze
(Find the Rave/party, Possibly literal actually get silent and listen for music to find the rave/party location).

the lions know they are being stalked
(the Drug dealers / cartels know there being sought out)

the gamblers and other Rollers talk
(Casino gamblers and other X heads talk)

tell the cowboys!
(Tell the American/Searchers)

The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe
(Arubans will not show us were the rave/party place is unless Americans/beth refuse to accept joran as the only guilty party)

Follow the music,
the lions are not tame
DirtyHand knows,
so does the elder
(repetition for emphasis)

Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened

The cowboys need to find the right path,
(Americans/searchers are looking in the wrong areas)

but they can’t hear the music.
(they are deaf to whats going on around them)

The Arawaks know
Stupid Cowboys with Arawak Guides
(Americans/searchers are foolish to use aruban guides, aruban guides are taking advantage of this)

Cowboys don’t read smoke signals,
(Americans are not reading the signs/signals correctly)

they must enter the maze!
(FIND THE DAMN RAVE/PARTY ALREADY!)

Shango needs to feed the messengers. The Gods are talking.

Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
(NH was expecting to have fun -- little did she know)

the lamb ran bleating
afraid to walk through the maze
(Joran is a wuss and ran he was scared he knew what was going on/happened).

why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions?
(Why don't the arubans rat out the drug dealers/cartel)?

The cowboys don’t know.
(Americans dont understand the innerworkings of the maze)

DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation
(Van Der Straaten knows but is afraid if he gives up the lions the money will cease and the arubans will become upset with Van Der Straaten)

The gods are talking
(Shangos bosses are talking/planning)

The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague

I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen

The simian is not a simian, but an austrolopithecus

Threadsurfers on other beaches are oblivious to the Maze and the lions
(Threadsurfers in other countries are oblivious to the Maze and drug dealers/cartels because they do not have/(can't imagine) this type of courruption)

without exposure, the arawaks will deceive the cowboys

they will leave without loot

Shango is the god of justice

alive in many forms

he who speaks through Oxum through lightning

and himself through thunder

father of the violent dance

diviner of secrets of the seven levels of inferno

bound to truth even as it burns

so that justice may be brought.

Only those who cRave music go into the Maze

The gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the Arawak choir

the music which holds the answers lies within the maze

the cowboys will smile sweetly as the chorus sings

backs turned to the maze

never hearing a single note

from the poison song

All the Arawaks know the Maze which plays the poison songs

How those innocent young flies enter the trap with honey laden notes

Shango must leave to feed the messengers
(Shango must meet with the press)?

The gods are talking
(Shangos bosses are talking)

Follow the notes

to the poison house

where the children of the babylonians

and the arawak nation

meet, under cover of delusion.
(Follow the music to the party/rave where Children of the Dutch officials and Arubans meet thinking their not seen or noticed)

In the maze

the lions which play

shall be found.

The gamblers also took note.

Tell the cowboys!

Not all lions leave their den
(It seems to say -- not all party goers leave the maze or possibly live at the maze .. possibly someones house or wherehouse?)

That which is hidden shan’t be found in the light
(I guess you have to go at night when it's happening to find it or possibly hear/see it).

Yliana and Subdude have both opened windows which look into the heart of babylon

do not stray from your paths

you hold the key in hand

Yliana Says:

June 28th, 2005 at 12:34 am
There are many ‘country’ houses where parties are held. And these houses are not really mazes but have different rooms where things can happen

subdude Says:

June 28th, 2005 at 12:34 am
Big Pappy: Good man. What’s the risk, a little egg on the face? Well worth the chance of helping.

Babylonians are Dutch because Dutch legal system in Aruba, I beleive.
Arawaks are Arubans. Children of Babylonians could be Dutch kids meeting with Arubans “under cover of delusion” — thinking they are not noticed. I am struggling — just spit balling.


The threadsurfers are opening the door to babylon

be careful of the lions
DirtyHand does not have them tamed
(these people live above the law and Van Der Straaten has no control over them)

but he can enter the den
(but is obviously allowed to go to this maze)

tell the cowboys
(at this point I wondered why he didn't tell them himself)

See Subdude / Iliana 12:34

For the doubters: You do not need to see a grain of sand in your eye to know it is there
(It should be Obvious to you)

Find the music
(Find/listen the party/rave)

Only David left the den alive
(Does he mean Daniel?)

This Simian is not the Simian. It is a Doppleganger.
(Shango telling us that the Simian posting at that moment was not the real Simian who usually posted there)

Crypticism leads to tributaries of thought which would not usually leave the MainStream
(Cryptic words/talk leads us to a though process which we would not normally take. Shango suggesting that we need to think past what we are being told, through Cryticism, crypitc sayings often practiced by Magicians.)

Babylon is Falling
(the heat is on - the Beths pressure is wearing on LE and Van Der Straaten)

The Arawak teepees will be crushed
(The aruban community will be hurt)

will they sacrifice the Lamb or the Lion
(decision time for Van Der Straaten / give up Joran or the real bad guys -- PVDS is making this hard on him)

to make the cowboys smile
(Will Joran be enough to make Americans walk and not ask more questions?)

The arawaks must hunt the lions
(arubans must hunt the drug dealers/Slave traders)

in the place of darkness
(There in hiding/ out of plain sight)

house of secrets

Shango finds it very humorous (and quite fitting) that a frenchman would assume the monniker of a Primate.
(Shango Doesn't like the french .. but again - who does/he suggest that this french man Jossy Mansur? - has a primate as a monniker)

The babylonian and the shivas did not build castles in the sand
(Joran and the cocka poos did not go to the beach)

They lost to the lions
(Often the Lion will take it's prey from others whom have made the kill so to speak. Joran was told to get lost and the lions took NH)

dirty hand knows the elder knows and so do the arawaks
(Van Der Straaten and other Island Officials know so do the local Islanders)


the cowboys are far from the house of babylon the maze shall remain
dark to all but the arawak nation and the elders
(Americans are not looking in the right place so they wont find the rave/maze. Everyone on the island knows including the Local Officials)


The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys
(Talking to the Simian poser: Your pissed because the Aruban nation is hiding the truth from Americans/searchers. Which begs the question - Is doppleganger being used by Shango to show Simian has a standin to take the heat off the real Simian?)

DirtyHand knows Simian knows The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague

the next day Shango said no two times Is Simian a DirtyHand too Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

(Shango has had enough of Simian and says that Simian is basically full of it. That he also is taking bribes and says bad things about Simians momma).


Information the Simian left for 2 days was incorrect His lordship brought nothing from the Hague the

simian listens to whisperings of the arawak tongue foolishly thinking he is an inside
(Simian thinks he's an insider because he believes what he hears - Shango points out that Simian is a noob).

Shango says

Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
(Arubans hold (singing card still working on this) from the Dutch).

There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
(Joran and the cocka poos)

Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
(Arubans can't let joran tell of what he knows because Island Officials are just as dirty)

Many teepees fall. No Wampum.
(Many houses/busniess :: no Money)

Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice.
(Americans accept LE placing blame on Joran / Arubans also accept this)

Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed.
(Van Der Straaten stays unexposed, and lives happily ever after)(possibly refering to arubans on the take

Last edited by Ringo on Tue Jul 12, 2005


13 posted on 08/01/2005 1:02:46 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: Admin Moderator

I was unable to post this correctly. Can you please have it deleted?

Post #8 in In the Smoky Backroom forum, on a thread titled SHANGO'S RIDDLE


14 posted on 08/01/2005 1:22:09 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: TexKat

You da bomb - tx, TK!


15 posted on 08/01/2005 1:30:35 PM PDT by Froufrou (Froufrou Loves The Spurs!)
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To: truthluva

Here's a legend that some of the SM people were using. Not sure if I agree with all of it, but I did use to start with.

*Mary=Natalee
*The Lamb=Joran
*Shivas=Kalpoe brothers
*Dirty Hand=police commissioner Van Der Straaten
*The Elder=Paulus Van Der Sloot
*His Lordship=unknown; maybe the Aruban Prime Minister
*Sumerians= maybe American government officials or Jossy Mansur, head of Diario
*Babylonians=European (Dutch) influence on Aruba
*Arawaks=native Arubans
*Arawak King=Prime Minister, or possibly the boat with the same name from the mainland that frequents Aruba.
*Olorum=supreme being
*46th Spirit=a reference to Bifrons, a spirit with the swollen features of a rotting corpse; makes people around him aware of their own mortality. Not sure what the connection is here…
*Teepees=dwelling of innocent people/carefree island culture was first suggested, but I think it really means the island’s businesses: casinos, hotels, etc. that would be hurt worst by a drop in tourism
*Roll=reference to doing the drug ecstasy; or tripping whether or not self induced doing X is called ‘rolling’
*Keystone=Dirty Hand=the center of corruption, which will expose this crime and other corruption
*The Lions=the truly dangerous people involved in underworld; Natalee’s real killers (or those responsible for her death Sex/drug dealers.)
*The Maze=location of rave parties/ seedy underworld of the island
*Sacrifice=person or people who will take the fall if truth isn't exposed (The Lamb and shivas)
*Cowboys=Americans searching for Natalee; her family, EquuSearch, FBI, etc.

*Indians= arubans
*Loot=Natalee; some think this means hard evidence of any kind
*Wampum= money, income to Aruba; the economy
*Occam's Razor=medieval principle that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed
*Doppleganger=an invisible shadow-self possessed by every human
*Eden=truth

*cowboy gods=the real power in the U.S.: FBI, senators, et cetera






Note: Shango says three things frequently enough that I think it more efficient to provide one translation here to use afterward:




I must (go) feed the messengers

Either Shango has sources of his own he has to confer with (my guess), or he is leaking information to the media or elsewhere as well. (ringo's Guess)




The gods are talking

Refers to ongoing communiqués between the Aruban government, the Netehrlands, the U.S., etc.




Light the fires!

The day of charges/trial/conviction are approaching. (Also a warning or message (ringo's guess).








http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1190


16 posted on 08/01/2005 1:51:49 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: TexKat

what the...

Not familiar with this. What is this?


17 posted on 08/01/2005 2:40:57 PM PDT by Asphalt (Join my NFL ping list! FReepmail me| The best things in life aren't things)
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To: TexKat

self ping


18 posted on 08/01/2005 3:29:14 PM PDT by lesser_satan
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To: Dark Skies; monkeywrench; Froufrou; bolta_lightnin; Pepper777; Abigail Adams; Malichi; ...
I think all of the Shango posts are listed above along with the key/legend that was put together some time back. I have my doubts about some of the correlations on the legend but I have not changed them

On the other thread we were discussing the possibility of a religious/Christian connection to Shango. I for one don't read it that way. If Shango has a strong religious connection is appears more pagan than Christian. I have viewed the posts in this manner.

Also, given that, I am less interested in who Shango is than in what he/she is attempting to convey. There are a lot of references to raves, mazes and music when the posts refer to a location. I have a theory on this. I don't think they are meant to be interpreted in the literal since. If raves are common, then they can be found. I know they are supposed to be secret parties, but Aruba is a small town. The would be too easy. I think the 'raves' are the private, behind the scenes high-stakes games that are put together by the casino operators or hotel GM's.

Also, watch how he/she will use a term more than once, sometimes to identify an individual, other times not. I think that is important.

Any thoughts???
19 posted on 08/01/2005 4:12:25 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: truthluva
Hey TL...did you know that the Catholic saint correspondent to Shango is Saint Barbara (Google her)...the common element is lightning and thunder.

I tried to determine if there might be a Santa Barbara Church on the island...didn't find one. But the story of St. Barbara is quite interesting.

Let me know what you think.

Shango might be the daughter of someone in the know...Dirty Hands or Dirty Feet?

20 posted on 08/01/2005 4:19:06 PM PDT by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: truthluva

Bttt!


21 posted on 08/01/2005 4:19:56 PM PDT by monkeywrench (Deut. 27:17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbor's landmark)
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To: TexKat
"COME BACK SCANGO, COME BACK"


22 posted on 08/01/2005 4:25:59 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy
"Forget it, kid...and don't call me Skanko!"


23 posted on 08/01/2005 4:33:22 PM PDT by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: A CA Guy

LOL!!


24 posted on 08/01/2005 4:33:42 PM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: Froufrou

Okay yall work and figure this Shango and Shango riddle out.


25 posted on 08/01/2005 4:40:12 PM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: Dark Skies; monkeywrench; Froufrou; bolta_lightnin; Pepper777; Abigail Adams; Malichi; ...

DS,

I think that is interesting. The chosen name, Shango, is from a pagen religion. However, I'm having a tough time relating much of the posts to any Catholic link other than St Barbara. I see the reference Shango make to thunder and lightning, but seems that reference is more about why he/she wants to provide the information...justice.

That said, what do you see in the details of the posts that can also link a religious theme to this? I have taken a completely different tact. I see a lot of references to gambling - singing card, dicemen, played the hand, etc - and I think there is a definite link to the casinos and what happened to NH after she parted ways with JVDS. I think the maze is a circuit of casinos that provide for private parties (raves) for high-stakes players (lions). The players at these types of parties are catered to in every way.

I think the key casino in this circuit is the Allegro (follow the music) and the end was at the Wyndham. I'll explain the Wyndham later. Shango says she was not a virgin which I take to mean that she had gambled with a few of the people earlier in the week on the floor of a casino. It's possible that she had even been to the Allegro before. Nothing to support that...just a passing thought. Remember, the Allegro Hotel is closed for renovations, but the casino is still open. The casino is either now called or was called The Palace.


26 posted on 08/01/2005 5:31:51 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: truthluva

Somewhere I thought Shango had stated that the DJ from the boat should not have been released. I cannot find it.


27 posted on 08/01/2005 5:33:54 PM PDT by Li-Li
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To: truthluva
TL...powerful summation!

The reason I think Shango has a religious angle is purely intuitive (yes, even blokes have intuition).

It is a somewhat wild guess, but there are pagan and religious references thoughout (or at least there might be). Of course, much of what has happened is secular...in the bowels of the island. And having read the Shango posts over and over again, it seems rather clear what Shango is saying. The people on this thread and on the Nat/Beth thread have said the same thing.

The one thing that is missing from Shango's posts is what we might do to bring the truth out...other than keep the pressure on.

28 posted on 08/01/2005 5:50:11 PM PDT by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies

In order to bring out the truth don't you have to look in the right places? Shango says the 3 amigos are scapegoats. I don't think they know where she is...dead or alive. Or, if they do know I think they were tasked with disposing of her, but they may not have been with her when she died. I think Joran and Deepak were headed to the Wyndham that night/early morning to try and get her back...alive. They may have been too late.

Or...it was decided that she would be taken off the island and sent somewhere else...(the sex slave theory).

There is a connection between the Allegro and the Wyndham. There is a guy who has held a high position at both places. He has a middle eastern name. The two security guards were former Allegro security guards. They hung out there. Lkie M. Furhman says, there's always a hint of truth in the lies. Joran didn't correctly describe the clothing of the HI security guards. He said they wore all black. The HI security guards wear white shirts. He was secribing security guards from a different Hotel/Casino. If by chance they were seen at the Allegro, those two security guards could still be suspects.


29 posted on 08/01/2005 6:09:26 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: Li-Li

Is there a particular line in the Shango post that you are referring to regarding the DJ? I haven't been able to tie the DJ to the posts before. Help!


30 posted on 08/01/2005 6:10:58 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: truthluva; Dark Skies; stlnative; All

I think maybe the religious part may be limited only to the fact that the info provided comes from someone who has a sense of right and wrong. Evidently, that may be a little rare in the high stakes life on Aruba.


31 posted on 08/01/2005 6:21:03 PM PDT by Froufrou (Froufrou Loves The Spurs!)
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To: Froufrou

Frou,

You may be right. Or, it gives the author something to hide behind.


32 posted on 08/01/2005 6:22:27 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: truthluva
...there's always a hint of truth in the lies...

I study the medieval period and I like it...and I like William of Ockham's neat little theorum. But it really doesn't fit complex cases.

I prefer what Conan Doyle said through Holmes (to paraphrase)..."remove the impossible and what you are left with is the truth."

As a fanatical fan of mystery...we need to see the underside of the island to see the truth.

Even in riddle, shango has made the most sense.

33 posted on 08/01/2005 6:23:41 PM PDT by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies

[I prefer what Conan Doyle said through Holmes (to paraphrase)..."remove the impossible and what you are left with is the truth."]

Exactly! So what is the obvious that can be removed from Shango?


34 posted on 08/01/2005 6:28:16 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: truthluva

I still believe for no particular reason there may be a connection between the Wyndham and the Allegro. Mayge the dealers at Wyndham arranged the guestlist for the raves at Allegro? They have the same dealers? Something...

I can't quote it but I think it stays in the back of my mind. As opposed to being any kind of visionary thing, this has become a mental exercise in remembering as many snippets as one can, IMHO. I see nothing wrong with that. Plenty of detectives exercise the what-if perogative.


35 posted on 08/01/2005 6:34:10 PM PDT by Froufrou (Froufrou Loves The Spurs!)
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To: truthluva

Let me cogitate. I will break it down as far as my three remaining brain cells permit.


36 posted on 08/01/2005 6:35:05 PM PDT by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Froufrou

Okay...I put it together this way.

Follow the music = Allegro. If there was a big-stakes game going on at the Allegro, not on the casino floor. They would be able to use the suites. No guests, it was closed for renovation. The players still needed a place to stay and they couldn't register at the Allegro. Plus there were not hotel services available. There is an individual high up who has worked at both places. Plus, it has been said that Joran was at the Wyndham the very next evening/early morning.


37 posted on 08/01/2005 6:43:03 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: Dark Skies; truthluva

Identify the impossible? That's a tall order when there are so many smokescreens out there. How much could this be about the Arawaks resentment of Dutch intrusion? Angry, but afraid to retaliate? Are they? Could they have done this, and the necktie?


38 posted on 08/01/2005 6:43:45 PM PDT by Froufrou (Froufrou Loves The Spurs!)
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To: truthluva; Dark Skies

Agreed. Couldn't have said it better myself. Maybe even the same owner?


39 posted on 08/01/2005 6:45:13 PM PDT by Froufrou (Froufrou Loves The Spurs!)
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To: Froufrou

I haven't tied it to ownership. I think the Allegro is owned by Occidental. Haven't established who owes the Wyndham yet.


40 posted on 08/01/2005 6:50:07 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: Froufrou

The Arawaks are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They have to live there. Tourism is their biggest industry. On the other hand to bad guys are there all the time. They don't seem to be afraid of LE.

I don't if the neck-tie is related or not. Could be. Maybe a sign to LE not to get week knees. Or to the public to keep their own counsel.


41 posted on 08/01/2005 6:53:04 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: Froufrou
FF...this is an island that has known much poverty and great riches. At one time there were gold mines on Aruba. Now there is the drug flow (dirty hand is the dealer...and dirty feet is the transit, IMO).

I am beginning to think that shango is vy close to the truth. Jurine is a young lion...but he was pushed aside when the real lions saw his catch.

Whether he put the body away or whether he left (as he was asked to do)...the truth is in there somewhere.

42 posted on 08/01/2005 6:53:38 PM PDT by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies

Remmber the rumors about the ATM withdrawals? the black eye? Did he try to buy or win her back?


43 posted on 08/01/2005 6:56:15 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: truthluva
You may be onto something...it goes against all we have imagined but Jurine might have tried to save her from more evil forces...at least that is what the riddles imply. And that is as possible as any other theory.

Imagine Jurine starts out as a heel...and ends up as a hero...and gets a black eye for his effort.

44 posted on 08/01/2005 7:06:35 PM PDT by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies

Well, IF the rumors about the phone calls are true, it would make sense that she was left someplace where she did not know the people.

I think the FBI needs to find out which high profile people were on that island that night and what they were doing. 60 days after the fact may make that very hard to do. Somebody knows.


45 posted on 08/01/2005 7:22:49 PM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: truthluva
Pray hard, really hard...I think truth may come out.

And no, I don't understand the power of prayer and why it works...but it seems to! I have faith in the One behind it.

46 posted on 08/01/2005 7:30:05 PM PDT by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: justche

pinging myself to a new thread to try to keep track of


47 posted on 08/01/2005 10:27:28 PM PDT by justche (No one can go back and make a brand new start, any one can start now and make a brand new ending)
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To: truthluva
>If Shango has a strong religious connection is appears
>more pagan than Christian. I have viewed the posts in this >manner.

VOODOO is an African religion
SHANGO is the Caribbean equivalent of VooDoo.
48 posted on 08/02/2005 3:44:56 AM PDT by bolta_lightnin (*Warning* This thread has just been haunted.)
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To: Dark Skies

http://www.cultural-expressions.com/ifa/orisha/shango.htm

Sango is the God of Thunder
Sango is King.
Just as lightning flashes to show indistinguishable landscape,
Sango has the ability to show one the truth just as quickly.


49 posted on 08/02/2005 3:50:05 AM PDT by bolta_lightnin (*Warning* This thread has just been haunted.)
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To: Froufrou

There is a common element between the "Old Hotel", The Atlantis that Equusearch searched yesterday: it's Owner
and the Owner of the"old Hilton" Wyndham:*Alfonso Riverol*

Appears that Riverol might be bankrolling the Atlantis' Owner,
among other things:

Also Beth, Jug & Equusearch were all staying at the Wyndham (FWIW)

EquuSearch; Dog Teams & Searchers Go To the Atlantis
August 1st, 2005
EquuSearch was notified this morning of a potential place of interest located in the area known as ****the old Atlantis Hotel****. The Atlantis is basically an old run down hotel and abandoned for at least 15 years. Three dog teams searched the many buildings and underground pool areas of the area.
Other camera equipment was brought in as well to search the more difficult to get to places.After about two hours of dealing with the dangerous environment, wasps and bats the searchonly found a plastic bag with a dead animal in it.



Diario Diamars, 12 Juli, 2005
(Jossy Mansuers Newspaper)
FRODIGAL SON. Sergio Duarte is back on the island. Fifteen years ago when ****Atlantis Hotel*** was conceived and built by the Duarte family Sergio lived here and had a good time, chasing chicks, waterskiing, night-clubbing. Later the project got into trouble, fell into a state of despair, and was quagmired in the courts. Over the years a number of personal and business losses – Sergio’s beautiful sister lost her life in a tragic car accident at the then dangerous airport junction – humbled and quieted the man. He is today happily married raising two beautiful boys and hoping to return to Aruba and revive Atlantis. The trouble, he says is over, the government has been paid and most issues settled. I bumped into Sergio at Lounge Rouge, Texas de Brazil, accompanying business man ****Alfonso Riverol**** and a pair of glamorous women. Some things don’t change . . .


COMPANY: ARUBA HOTEL ENTERPRISES N.V. ****WYNDHAM ARUBA BEACH RESORT
CONTACT:
Alfonso Riverol

TITLE: President
PHONE: 297-586-4466 ext:3800
FAX: +297-586-4987
EMAIL: alrivest@aol.com
WEBSITE:
ADDRESS: J.E. Irausquin Blvd. #77 Palm Beach ARUBA


50 posted on 08/02/2005 4:00:44 AM PDT by bolta_lightnin (*Warning* This thread has just been haunted.)
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