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Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 15
Various News Outlets | 8/19/05

Posted on 08/19/2005 7:02:03 AM PDT by TexKat

Profile of Natalee Holloway

Missing: Natalee Holloway participated in a trip with 125 seniors from Mountain Brook High School to Aruba in the Caribbean. In the early morning hours on May 30, 2005 Natalee was seen leaving a nightclub and getting into a vehicle. She failed to turn up Monday morning for her return flight home and she has not been seen since. Foul play is suspected in her disappearance.

Profile: Natalee Holloway was born on October 21, 1986 to Beth and Dave Holloway. She grew up in the close-knit community of Mountain Brook, a suburb of Birmingham, Alabama. She was very popular and respected by her classmates and had a reputation among peers at being very intelligent and focused on her future. She lived up to her reputation, graduating as an honors student from the Mountain Brook High School.

Extracurricular Activities: During Natalle's high school years she participated several extracurricular activities including: The American Field Service - A club which interacts with the foreign exchange students. Dorians Dance Team Future Business Leaders of America Mu Alpha Theta - Math honor society Natural Helpers - A peer based emotional support group. Outdoors Club Spanish Club Spanish Honor Society Spartan Pride - School pep group. TASC - Teens Actively Serving the Community

Future Goals: Natalee received a full scholarship to the University of Alabama. She planned to major in Pre-Med, in order to pursue her goal of being a pediatrician.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: allamericangirl; americansweetheart; aprayerfornatalee; aruba; arubancorruption; beth; bethandjug; boringstory; boycottaruba; carloscharlies; courageousmom; daviejoneslocker; deepak; deepkrap; disappear; drugcartel; enoughwiththis; everyoneschild; fbi; generalissimofranco; ghb; greta; investigation; joran; jug; kalpoes; kalpooeys; kidnapped; mansur; natalee; nataleeholloway; stilldead
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Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 6

Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 7

Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 8

Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 9

Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 10

Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 11

Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 12

Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 13

Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 14

Another Twist in Holloway Disappearance

Ala. Teen's Mom: Men 'Know What Happened' (Natalee Holloway)

Natalee's body found... (false report)

Holloway Not Only American Missing In Aruba

Natalee Holloway (Aruba) 5 Men Now in Custody

Three more arrested in the Natalee Holloway, Aruba missing girl probe

Blond Hair Found on Aruba Shore to Be Tested in Case of Missing U.S. Teen (attached to duct tape...

1 posted on 08/19/2005 7:02:07 AM PDT by TexKat
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To: TexKat

#15 bump


2 posted on 08/19/2005 7:06:40 AM PDT by Deguello
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To: Deguello

This reminds me of how Fox News, and others, were obsessed with the Chandra Levy disappearance.

The thing that ended the obsession was 9/11...

Let us hope that history does not repeat itself in the same manner


3 posted on 08/19/2005 7:12:07 AM PDT by Paisan
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To: Andy'smom; NCjim; Deguello; LegalEagle61; sissyjane; antceecee; ruoflaw; Mare; cyborg; kcvl; ...
CNN LARRY KING LIVE TRANSCRIPT Aired August 18, 2005 - 21:00 ET

CHRIS PIXLEY, GUEST HOST: Good evening. I'm Chris Pixley, in for Larry King. I want to thank Larry for inviting me to be here tonight. Truly extraordinary day in Wichita, Kansas, today with the sentencing of the BTK killer. We're going to be talking about that later in the show.

First off, though, we have a one-on-one interview with Beth Holloway Twitty, Natalee Holloway's mother. Beth, of course, in Aruba, continuing the search.

Beth, day 81, moving in on three months since Natalee's disappearance. I have to ask the obvious question, how are you holding up? How is the family holding up?

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Well, you know, each day it's hard. And some days are very difficult to get through. But, you know, we've just been -- just had an amazing amount of support from family and friends and people that we've never met in the U.S. and Mexico and Canada. And so it helps tremendously to get us through this. PIXLEY: As the volunteer search goes on, of course, the Aruban authorities conducting their own search, the FBI participating. What is the latest in terms of the reward, and what is the latest that you have been doing in the last 30 days or so?

TWITTY: Well, I think the main thing that we've been trying to do is to get the word out about the reward. And I think CNN has been doing a great job of covering that, the million dollars for her safe return, $250,000 for her whereabouts. And making available the 1-877- Natalee line. I've even had tourists approach me here on the island from Caracas, Venezuela, and knew all about the story and they know about the reward that's in place.

So I feel like the word is out there, and that's something else we still want to continue. We're also trying to produce a little Spanish speaking public service announcement that could run through the media and distribute that to some stations, international. And so we're just always trying to think of ways to get the word out.

PIXLEY: Beth, with all good that's been done, and of course with all the attention that's been brought to the story, you have nonetheless said that you don't think the official investigation has been heading in the right direction. Now, we know that you have been given the opportunity to look at the police reports, see some of the witness statements. When you see that kind of evidence, do you feel better or worse?

TWITTY: Well, there are a lot of things, of course, at the beginning that we were so -- just went so incredibly wrong. And, you know, what I get worried about now is, is hitting a wall. And you know, I think the gardener coming forward with his statement, I think that that is something that still is being, you know, verified to see if it has credibility to that.

And, I mean, to me, that's huge news coming forward. We've all known, as early as July 1st, that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, that the beach trip -- that never happened. You know, now, this will, of course, be having them scramble to come up with, you know, a new alibi.

PIXLEY: And we're going to get into that alibi in a little bit. But I want to ask you first, though, you mentioned some of the dead ends. With the dead ends that we have seen that have been so widely reported, the hair on the tape, the pond that's been drained, all the while you have to sit back wondering if your daughter is going to be found in the worst possible condition.

Now there is this new report, hundreds of miles away from Aruba, of human remains washing up in Venezuela. Do you ever allow yourself to think that this could be your daughter, or do you shut that out, Beth?

TWITTY: I don't allow it anymore at all. You know, we've been through so much, even before all of these things were being made known. There were -- as early as June 1 -- it was early as May 31 and June 1, we were running with sightings of Natalee all through Aruba in the most unimaginable places that you would be thinking of looking for your daughter.

So, you know, we had to really try to get a handle on, you know, all this information that we're getting from these sightings, because you just have -- there were too many ups and downs, too many highs and lows in the beginning and we just had to put the brakes on and really just wait until we had something definitive before we began to think it could be related to Natalee.

PIXLEY: You mentioned the Kalpoe brothers and, in particular, of course, it's been in the news lately that you have had words with Deepak. Is there something in particular that you have learned, something in particular that you want to say to the Kalpoes?

Or does it have more to do with the fact that their story continues to unfold now, of course, with the gardener's statement coming in and challenging what the brothers and what Joran Van Der Sloot has to say?

TWITTY: Well, I mean, we've known from day one that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are way deeply involved in this crime with Natalee. You know, proving that has been difficult with all the lies that they've continued to, you know, tell the authorities.

As far as what I would, you know -- as far as, you know, Deepak's reaction, you know, when I met him in the internet cafe, it was a completely different Deepak Kalpoe than I met the night of May 31. You know, at that point, he's thinking that he had a rock solid alibi, the Holiday Inn drop-off, and he held his head high, looked at me in the eye.

At the internet cafe, he couldn't lift his head until I'd been in there over an hour, close to an hour and a half before he -- you know, I was leaving at the time some of the footage was shot. He had been repeatedly having to ask him to hold your head up and look at me. He couldn't even do it, he couldn't even look at Natalee's mother. It's just this incredible guilt over him. He couldn't even deny any involvement.

PIXLEY: We're approaching, of course, September 4th. There is a chance on that date that Joran Van Der Sloot will come out of custody. Is there a contingency plan at this point in place? Will you be challenging that? Will you be doing what you can to keep Joran Van Der Sloot in custody, and are you doing anything on the ground to try to see, or through your attorneys, that the Kalpoe brothers are brought back in?

TWITTY: Well, of course, I'm just going to have to wait until September 4th. I'm just going to have to wait to experience it to see what we're going to do. Of course, you know, we're always thinking and putting different things into motion. But, you know, we've just got to wait and see how it's going to go before we can implement anything. And as far as Deepak and Satish, I'm not giving up that they will not be rearrested. I still think that that is a strong possibility.

PIXLEY: We'll be back with more of our discussion with Beth Holloway Twitty, Natalee Holloway's mother, from Aruba and New York in just a minute.

PIXLEY: Continuing our live, one-on-one conversation with Beth Holloway Twitty in Aruba. Beth, do you have any theories at this point? You sure have been on the ground for a long time. You've got the help of some great investigators. Do you have any theories as to what happened that night?

TWITTY: No. You know, we have -- there's so many different theories that we've come up with as our family, and also with, you know, the people that have been involved, the investigators and attorney. And, you know, we just go back to the two things that we know happened.

And we know that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe and Joran Van Der Sloot took Natalee from Carlos and Charlie's. And, you know, I've not made it a secret that Joran Van Der Sloot had confessed these sexual assaults and he committed against Natalee to us, her family.

Those are two of the facts that we know. And, you know, what happened from there, you know, there's where the answers lie with Deepak and Satish Kalpoe and Joran Van Der Sloot.

PIXLEY: Beth, you're talking about facts that suggest that your daughter did encounter some foul play. You say that you don't allow yourself to think that way. I wonder which is worse in your mind, the idea that your daughter was the victim of a deadly crime, or the idea that you could spend the next 20 years wondering whether she's going to walk through the front door -- sort of Elizabeth Smart kind of story?

TWITTY: Well, I mean, those are both cruel to go through either one of them. So, you know, I just know that we have to have answers. And I know the answers are right here. I know the answers are right here on the island and, you know, we expect to get them.

PIXLEY: And so you go forward with this all-consuming search. Tell me about the members of your family. We've heard from everyone. Who is down in Aruba, who is back home? How do you sustain this level of activity and work for months?

TWITTY: It's the most incredible support that you've ever seen coming out of Natalee's community of Mountain Brook, Alabama. You know, something that even has been made possible -- I'm supposed to be back at work. I teach school at Mountain Brook City Schools. And the teachers have come forward and donated sick days to last me this entire fall. And, you know, they're just making things happen. And it's just incredible.

And then the amount of friends that we have that support us and are able to fly in and out and take time from their jobs. We all have jobs and lives there and children there. And everybody's just been making sacrifices to make this work.

PIXLEY: Beth, plan A, obviously, has been to get as much help from as many sources as possible. Do you feel, at any point in time, that the participation of all of these different groups, where it's the volunteer groups, the Aruban officials, the FBI, that people can get in each other's way? Or do you feel that the attention that has been brought to the case and the number of people who are looking for Natalee is a positive?

TWITTY: Oh, I think that number of people that have been involved are -- it's definitely a positive. We've been so fortunate to have these groups of individuals that have come in. I mean, from Equusearch to -- gosh, I mean, they just did an incredible job of combing this island.

It's a very unforgiving terrain. It's not easy. It's not easy at all. And we've just, you know -- investigators have come in and, of course, anything that anyone has brought to the table has been helpful.

PIXLEY: Beth, this is also hard to talk about. We appreciate you being with us tonight. We're going to be talking with your brother and with a panel some more. Everyone, stay with us. LARRY KING LIVE will return in a minute.

PIXLEY: We're back, talking about the Natalee Holloway disappearance. With us, the full panel now. In Houston, Paul Reynolds, Natalee Holloway's uncle. In Birmingham, Alabama, Anastasiya Bolton, reporter for TV station WBMA in Natalee Holloway's home state. In Atlanta, T.J. Ward, private investigator. He's been working on the case for some time now. In Orlando, Vinda De Sousa, the Holloway family attorney. And here in New York, Henry Lee, famed forensic pathologist, criminologist, here to talk to us a little bit more about the details of the case.

We go first, to Anastasiya Bolton. Anastasia, a week's worth of news, some hearings this week, bring us up to speed.

ANASTASIYA BOLTON, REPORTER, WBMA-TV: Chris, well first of all, on Monday, the gardener, the key witness in this case, gave sworn testimony to the judge. The reason why this is important, because previously, the gardener gave testimony that he saw the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot in the car near the racket club at 2:30 in the morning, the night Natalee Holloway disappeared.

The judge asked the witness to be brought back again and give a sworn statement again. And if that statement were to be the same, he potentially could have ordered the Kalpoe brothers to be rearrested, that was the buzz earlier in the week. Now, the re-arrest did not happen, although the gardener did give the same statement, he stands by his story that he saw the brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot.

Now, I've spoken to one of the attorneys for the Kalpoe brothers today. He tells me he does not expect his client to be rearrested. That's what he told me today. He says that the records do not lie in terms of phone and internet records, because he maintains that the Kalpoe brothers were cruising the internet and chatting on the internet way after 2:30 in the morning, so they could not have been on the beach near the racket club.

Also, over the weekend, an arm was found on the beaches of Venezuela. The investigators say they do not think that the arm could belong to Natalee Holloway because of the way the tides go. However, the Venezuelan authorities at some point are going to look into this and test the arm.

Right now, they're busy with a plane crash that happened earlier in the week, as you very well know. So they're going to look at the arm a little later. Joran was in court with attorneys yesterday. His attorneys are contesting that the prosecution in this case is not giving them full access to all the paperwork in this investigation. So the judge is supposed to make that decision on Monday.

And last but not least, Joran has not been interrogated for at least a week since last Thursday, even though the judge ruled that the interrogators will still be able to question Joran. Why he wasn't questioned, we do not know -- Chris?

PIXLEY: Thanks, Anastasiya.

Vinda De Sousa, you're the Holloway family attorney. I want to ask you very quickly, the viewers now have heard about this Colombian nationalist gardener, an illegal alien in Aruba, who is obviously becoming an important witness.

But as an illegal alien, who has now testified and given sworn testimony, do you have a fear that he will be turned over to immigration and deported, as opposed to being kept in the country? And is there any basis for keeping him in Aruba?

VINDA DE SOUSA, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, of course, the Aruban authorities are entitled to turn him over to the immigration authorities since he's an illegal alien. He has provided a sworn statement. So basically, his task, if I may call it that, in this case is done. I see no reason for him to be held in custody for this case any longer. It's probable that the authorities will turn him over, yes.

PIXLEY: And will you oppose, or will the family oppose, his deportation in any way? Is there any basis for doing that, even?

DE SOUSA: No, there is no basis for the family to oppose, no legal basis. Our criminal procedures code does not allow for the family, in this case, having joined as a victimized party to oppose a deportation, because the immigration laws in Aruba are very clear. If you're an illegal immigrant, you can be deported.

PIXLEY: Vinda, can you explain what happened at this hearing on Monday? I understand that attorneys for all of the parties, not just the prosecution, were allowed to cross-examine and question the gardener on his statement. What was going on there, and is this testimony, as you said, that can be used in the future?

DE SOUSA: Definitely. That's why he was heard in front of the judge of instruction. Because by hearing him in front of the judge of instruction, the parties, both the defense and the prosecution, are allowed to cross-examine him. And the judge himself asks the witness questions. And that will be a put in a sworn affidavit and that is used as evidence in the trial.

PIXLEY: Do you know anything, Vinda, finally about this witness's background? Do you have any expectation that if he is deported and sent back to Colombia, that you will be able to keep tabs on him?

DE SOUSA: I don't think so. If he's deported and sent back to Colombia, I don't think they will be able to keep tabs on him. But as I said before, I don't think it's necessary for them to keep tabs on him anymore, because he has given a statement in front of the judge of instruction with the opportunity for cross-examination by both parties, being the prosecution and the defense. So his task as a witness in this is done.

PIXLEY: OK. I want to go to Henry Lee. Henry, I asked this question of Beth Holloway Twitty. Obviously, when you have the Aruban authorities, the FBI, local volunteers, canine volunteers, all going about their individual investigations, does there come a point in time, without a single lead or without some coordination that this becomes a detriment, that it actually undermines the investigation? Do you have any fear when you know there're all these disparate parties searching this small island?

HENRY LEE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes, Chris, you're absolutely right, because so many different agencies are involved, lack of coordination. This case become a cold case now. And very little scientific evidence. Make this case really need some organization, coordination, somebody has to be in charge, reevaluate the witness testimony, look at the timeline analysis.

We have a witness say, "That night I saw two of them." They have a piece of evidence they were surfing the Internet. And we have to look at computer evidence on the hard disk, which, in fact, which we can extract the information on.

Of course, over the weekend, the arm. And it should be easy to tell that it's a male or female, what the possible age and nationality. And this can get a set of fingerprints. You have hand attached to it and try, of course, later for DNA analysis.

PIXLEY: That brings up another question, too. Are we going too far afield in this investigation when we start looking at evidence that's washing up hundreds of miles away, where reportedly, the Aruban tides don't even reach? Is this something that you think needs to be done in this case, or are we chasing the leads because they're interesting to the media?

LEE: Well, we should at least turn over the stone. Don't leave any stone unturned. To look at arm, in two second we can tell you that's consistent with the victim or not. And, of course, I have a fingerprint and DNA. Three or four days later, we can give you a DNA profile to see if that matches or not. At least we can eliminate that instead of keep waiting. PIXLEY: Let me go for a moment to T.J Ward. T.J., private investigator on the ground, do you put any stock in this latest report that Natalee Holloway may actually have been approached by someone from the adult film industry masquerading as a legitimate modeling agent, somebody that might have been able to lure her away? Is there any basis for putting stock in that new story?

T.J. WARD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR WORKING ON HOLLOWAY CASE: At this point in time, I don't think so. I think the key players, as Beth said, are the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot. One person we are leaving out of the picture here --, I do believe from information that we have found and information we're still receiving, I believe Paul Van Der Sloot is a piece of this puzzle also. And I think it needs to be looked at.

And he is on the back burner and he was a suspect at one time, and still is by the Aruban authorities and the FBI, and was in custody. But I don't think we need to leave him out because I believe he is a part of this puzzle that goes together. And I believe the family also believes that dearheartedly also.

PIXLEY: Let me ask Paul about that, then. Paul Reynolds, Natalee's uncle, Beth Holloway Twitty's brother. Paul, before we leave this question, as outrageous as this new report may seem, do you, knowing your niece the way you do, knowing, of course, that she did go off with a stranger in Joran Van Der Sloot -- that obviously has been confirmed. Do you put any stock in the idea that she may have been lured away by someone who is really not on the radar right now, someone like this talent agent?

PAUL REYNOLDS, UNCLE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Absolutely not. You know, that just wouldn't happen. It's almost a ridiculous story. You know, we know that Natalee did go with Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers. Her friends said that she thought it was a taxi. They were lined up there at Carlos and Charlie's, so she very well may have been tricked into getting in the car.

But we know those are the three individuals that know what happened. We believe the father also knows because according to the boys' statements, the father was helping them create an alibi. They're all involved, they all know what happened. We don't know where she is, but that's why we keep looking.

PIXLEY: And Paul, you're also searching, obviously, and have been searching with large groups at the local landfill. Tell me how that's going and tell me what assistance you've received from the Aruban authorities. Are you satisfied with the assistance that you're getting from them?

REYNOLDS: Well, Equusearch was doing the first landfill search. They spent at least a solid weekend there, a little more than that. A tough job, you know, trying to get some equipment in there. Extreme hardship under the conditions of the landfill. And, you know, but they were dedicated. They're in there looking hard with the dogs in there and trying to find something. This is based on a witness report. PIXLEY: Thanks, Paul.

PIXLEY: Back with our panel, talking about the Natalee Holloway case. We now have Michael Cardoza joining us from California. I want to go straight out to Michael.

This is going to pain you, Michael, but I can think of several well known cases where you have represented the bad guy, the famous dog-mauling case being just one of them. What do you do as a defense attorney and how far is too far, for example, for counsel for the van der Sloots, when you are representing a maligned and almost publicly hated defendant?

MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I'll tell you what, Chris, you put yourself in a difficult situation as a lawyer. A lot of people criticize you, take shots at you, but that is our job. That's what we do. and it does keep the system in balance, because God knows there are out there overzealous prosecutors. I did that job for 15 years. I've seen them out there. I'm on the other side now. I've seen them, but what you do is, you represent your client within the parameters of the law.

Now, keep in mind, it's really interesting what's going on down there in Aruba, because here in the United States, until charges are filed, the defense attorneys are aren't involved. And down in Aruba, what are they doing? They're walking into the court and they're complaining about not getting access to evidence.

Remember, here in the States, we, as defense attorneys, get no access to anything, as I say, until charges are filed. But yet, what do they get to do? They get to go down there, cross-examine people like the witness that they brought in the other day that saw, allegedly, van der Sloot at about 2:30 in the morning.

That's really different than our laws here. I'd love to have it here. I'd love to get at some of the prosecution witnesses before they file their cases. But what you do, you do it fairly and you do it within the parameters of the law.

PIXLEY: Of course here in the states, and Michael, you've experienced this all too -- many times, we have the opportunity, as defense counsel, to go out and talk to the press.

Now, there are those times there the court, when we're in full swing, -- and you're right, when there is a defendant and someone has been charged, that we're not able to talk. But in this case, you've got Joran van der Sloot's counsel. You've got counsel for the Kalpoes very mum, not willing to talk to the press.

If you are representing Joran van der Sloot, does the public's need to know get trumped by your desire to keep your client from talking at all or do you follow the old American model and get out there and talk?

CARDOZA: Well, I'll tell you what, the reason that defense attorneys get out there and talk -- remember we're different. We have the right to a jury trial here. So, what happens is, when attorneys get on the air, they're putting out to possible jurors what's going on in the case.

Because what's normally reported certainly, is pro-prosecution. So what defense attorneys try and do is balance that out. Down in Aruba, what do you have? You have court trials. You don't have jury trials -- the right to a jury trial. So, you really don't have that compelling need to get out there and talk to hopefully get the jurors and say, at least come in to the courthouse fair and balanced and don't believe everything you're reading about in the press.

I mean, this is a classic case. Most people have convicted Joran in this case. Is he guilty? We really won't know until, if they charge, number one and if they put the evidence on and it shows beyond a reasonable doubt, which is the same burden that we have here in the states.

So, until they put it on, we don't know what they have. Everybody's speculating about what the evidence is. Nobody knows. So, the needs are different.

PIXLEY: And of course, the other silent battle that's going on right now, between the FBI and Aruban officials. We hear bits and pieces about it. I want to go to Vinda De Sousa. Vinda, the FBI, just this Monday, was told by a judge that they will be allowed to continue to receive information from the Aruban authorities.

Of course, defense counsel for Joran van der Sloot had fought against that. They wanted to allow the -- wanted to get the FBI essentially out of the investigation. What is the general mood between these two factions, the FBI and the Aruban authorities and is there cooperation at all at this point or has it broken down?

DE SOUSA: Well, no. The FBI has been involved in this case from day one. They have provided the Aruban investigative authorities in this case with technical and tactical assistance. They have sat in the interrogations, although they have not interrogated themselves, because as you know, they don't have jurisdiction.

But they have been cooperating with the Aruban investigative authorities in this case and this cooperation only extended -- was extended by the fact that they were allowed -- they were given the interrogation material and tapes to be analyzed by their behavioral experts. So, the cooperation is, as I understand, very good and it's still ongoing.

4 posted on 08/19/2005 7:12:54 AM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: TexKat
Thanks a million... you are doing a terrific leadership job for us... I do so appreciate you...
Cheers!
5 posted on 08/19/2005 7:15:24 AM PDT by Fritzy (Fritzy)
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To: Fritzy

Cheers and thank you Fritzy!!


6 posted on 08/19/2005 7:23:29 AM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: Paisan

"This reminds me of how Fox News, and others, were obsessed with the Chandra Levy disappearance."

This comment reminds me of a liberal. If they don't like it, they want it restricted or complain about it.

If you don't want to read about this horrific crime, just "Move On" [to quote our liberal/Stalinist friends]


7 posted on 08/19/2005 7:33:04 AM PDT by whitedog57 (Holland)
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To: Malichi

We are over here now Mal!!


8 posted on 08/19/2005 7:42:22 AM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: Andy'smom; NCjim; Malichi; Deguello; LegalEagle61; sissyjane; antceecee; ruoflaw; Mare; cyborg; ...
Joran’s lawyers appeal again

ARUBA – Joran van der Sloot’s lawyers are not pleased with the way the Public Prosecutor (OM) informs them; reason for another appeal case yesterday afternoon in the case of the missing Natalee Holloway. The lawyers are demanding access to all the files, inclusive the video-recordings of the interrogations.

The examining magistrate dismissed their demand in a criminal proceeding last week. According to Joran’s lawyer, the OM does not hand over the case files complete and timely to the defense. He cannot positively say how complete their files are, because they do not know what the files are that the OM has. In addition to timely and complete handing over of the files, the lawyers also want a copy of all the video-recordings of the interrogation of his client. The judge will give verdict this coming Monday.

9 posted on 08/19/2005 7:46:04 AM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: TexKat

TexKat = Greta Van Boring!


10 posted on 08/19/2005 7:49:40 AM PDT by xrp (Fox News: I wonder if Greta will cover Aruba Missing Teen for all eternity?)
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To: xrp

What????


11 posted on 08/19/2005 7:51:48 AM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: whitedog57

Wow. Get a grip man.
First of all, there is, as of yet, no evidence of a crime. Only a disappearance.
Second, bazillions of people disappear everyday.
If you're fascinated by this, enjoy. It's only interesting to me because of the attempt to make it interesting.
You're intrigued, others may not be.
Save the caustic comments for something worthwhile.


12 posted on 08/19/2005 7:52:19 AM PDT by Paisan
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To: xrp

xrp we are all God's children, even you I think!!


13 posted on 08/19/2005 7:56:40 AM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: TexKat

Yeah. YOU?


14 posted on 08/19/2005 7:57:16 AM PDT by xrp (Fox News: I wonder if Greta will cover Aruba Missing Teen for all eternity?)
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To: truthluva

Huh?


15 posted on 08/19/2005 7:57:25 AM PDT by xrp (Fox News: I wonder if Greta will cover Aruba Missing Teen for all eternity?)
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To: xrp

I have checked your history of your one liners. You are so very brilliant for a 5 year old. Now if we can just get you potty trained.


16 posted on 08/19/2005 8:01:40 AM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: Paisan
Well if you are merely intrigued by us being intrigued that says something to me. (It's caustic so I will refrain from posting). If you are now attempting to be civil so will I. Lurking on this thread would be more productive for you than making foolish posts. Since those of us here who DO post are very intrigued your entertainment value will be more than satisfied by just reading what we say. You have diverted the attention (hmmm...intentional?) which will diminish the amount of time we have to entertain you.>>>>Or maybe this activity will provide the mental stimulation required to sooth your desire to construct spiteful posts. I know it's difficult, but try your best>>>
17 posted on 08/19/2005 8:07:57 AM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: TexKat

Oh dear. Is it the weekend already? Beware potstirrers with pointy little sticks.



18 posted on 08/19/2005 8:11:31 AM PDT by Mama25 (The only chaps a girl can trust are those she wears.)
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To: Mama25

Why do I get the feeling that these potstirrers are very lonely people???


19 posted on 08/19/2005 8:12:56 AM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: whitedog57
We do tend to jump on a case and sometimes over blow it... but this is so heart wrenching... I have spent hours (my break away from my usual work) in reading these comments and thinking about Natalee...

This morning.. in clear light... my thoughts:
This was a case of two young teens exploring the sexual world in a romantic setting.. now, it could be Joran using some stimulus to "have his way" with Natalee... he could have decided that he was going to have a young girl that night... etc... Natalee could have objected (?)

Then something terrible happens..this could be anything from rough sex to the stimulant reaction.. but she passes on and he is in a terrible quandary...

(I can't seem to rationalize the cell phone call to her Mom.. if that actually happened..)

He panics, calls his Dad and his friends to try to decide just what to do.. then Dad helps him with a "Story".. helps get rid of the evidence.. and thinks this will just be a case of a missing teen.. and life moves on...
The story is that they left her at her hotel.. but then bring in the two security guards..

At that point, Natalee's family moves in on Aruba.. knocking at doors in the middle of the night/early morning.. gets everyone in a uproar .. and the "story" begins to fall apart...

The guards are arrested.. the boys are questioned .. again, everyone thought life will move on.. but NO ONE every dreamed of the impact Natalee's family would have...

In the meantime, the police are demonstrating their inability to deal with such a case.. under "normal" conditions, if someone is missing, they just do a surface job and call it quits.. for not everyone has a mother like Beth..

Now in order to cover all of this up... rumors and stories fly.. it is way out of hand.. the three boys and their father/mothers are in over their collective heads and even the lawyers do not seem to know what to do...

OK how can this end??? This is the "come to Jesus" time..
Joran, his father and the Kalpoes get in one room with Natalee's family and the police.. they all TELL THE TRUTH..(what a concept).. The Boys and their parents throw themselves on the mercy of Natalee's parents and the Court.. then every one works out a closing strategy .. with serious repercussions for the perps...

Now.. this seems so simple.. it does not take into consideration any unknown events or materials.. nor does it take into thought that Joran may not have committed murder... but until the whole truth comes on the table.. Joran is going to take the heat for the full crime..

OK.. you can all say.. what a nut.. and will also know that my expertise does NOT lie in criminal justice.. but I feel very strongly that this case is all blown out of proportions.. there is a major cover up.. the Police have done a shoddy job.. Natalee's parents are so strong willed that until justice is attained, they will not give up.. and that we, as champions for Beth do not know any fact past the base: Natalee is missing; Joran was the last person with her; there have been a series of lies; and rumors are flying like sand in a sandstorm...

Just my two cents for this morning... By the way.. I take criticism very well!!!

Cheers from the Fritzy
20 posted on 08/19/2005 8:13:20 AM PDT by Fritzy (Fritzy)
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To: TexKat

Five? I think your big ol' generous heart is getting the better of you, darlin'.


21 posted on 08/19/2005 8:13:28 AM PDT by Mama25 (The only chaps a girl can trust are those she wears.)
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To: truthluva

That you consider my original post 'spiteful' is unfortunate. Take the post at face value.
I'm not intrigued by your interest, only the interest of the media in attempting to create interest by their 24 hour coverage. It reminded me of the Levy case - plain and simple.
Cast aspersions all you like - that says a lot to me as well...


22 posted on 08/19/2005 8:13:48 AM PDT by Paisan
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To: truthluva
Oh, gee, I don't know. Because it drips from each post? In other news, I have a date tonight. Any advice for me? (First date in a loooong time...divorced for 2 years, married 13 before that - I can't even remember how to do that dating thing, it's been so long!)
23 posted on 08/19/2005 8:18:14 AM PDT by Mama25 (The only chaps a girl can trust are those she wears.)
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To: xrp

We who are regulars on this thread very much appreciate TexKat's efforts and we resent that remark. It was uncalled for so please stop it.


24 posted on 08/19/2005 8:18:42 AM PDT by Designer (Just a nit-pick'n and chagrin'n)
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To: Paisan
"..there is, as of yet, no evidence of a crime.."

Perhaps even in Aruba it would be a crime to lie to the polis.

25 posted on 08/19/2005 8:20:41 AM PDT by Designer (Just a nit-pick'n and chagrin'n)
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To: Paisan
lol! Thanks for playing. But just so you don't leave empty handed we have this lovely parting gift.>>>>
26 posted on 08/19/2005 8:21:32 AM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: Fritzy

Your scenario--Joran either spikes Natalee's drink or she just drinks too much and something awry happens, would be plausible to me if they could find a body or some evidence. I just can't see how those three boys, even with the father's later help, could have masterminded the whole thing.

A couple of nights ago, before BTK sucked up all the oxygen in the cable news rooms, Beth and Jug were talking on some show and I think it was Jug who implied there is something much bigger going on than these three boys.


27 posted on 08/19/2005 8:21:38 AM PDT by libsl (I'm just sayin'....)
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To: Mama25

I'm sure everything will go just fine. Just be yourself! And....make sure you keep you hand over your drink!


28 posted on 08/19/2005 8:23:26 AM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: TexKat

Nah, I prefer to DUMP on your head!


29 posted on 08/19/2005 8:28:36 AM PDT by xrp (Fox News: I wonder if Greta will cover Aruba Missing Teen for all eternity?)
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To: xrp

"Nah, I prefer to DUMP on your head!"

Yet another intelligent post. You're on a roll.

Here...recognize this:

[Posted by xrp to Dawsonville_Doc
On News/Activism 08/16/2005 2:18:49 PM CDT · 4 of 50


Stupid is as stupid does.]


30 posted on 08/19/2005 8:42:47 AM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: libsl
I am not sure it was just the father and the boys.. they would need some help to take the remains out to sea...

For the past few weeks both Beth and especially, Jug, have hinted that this is bigger than just a "simply crime".. at one point, if I remember correctly, Jug said that if the Kalpoe's were released he would give a full disclosure.. but that did not happen... perhaps they are frighted to come forward with this mysterious information... but it does add to the intrigue and then fires up the rumors...

This needs to cut to the chase.. first everyone stated that the Prosecutor had until September 4 to charge Joran in order to keep him in custody.. now it seems there is another 30 days that may be applied for.. then after that.. if charged.. it would be almost 4 - 6 months before the charges would be actually heard before a judge...

Frankly, I do not know how much longer Beth can continue.. while everyone is noting that she is a very attractive woman.. the strain is really showing on her face... not only am I praying for the safe keeping of Natalee .. but for renewed strength and courage for Beth...
31 posted on 08/19/2005 8:49:20 AM PDT by Fritzy (Fritzy)
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To: Fritzy

Yes Beth and her family are certainly in a limbo with the way things are. But from the point of view of the suspect, any suspect not just in this case, it is hard to understand how they can just hold you and hold you and hold you without charging you. At the very least I would think you could post bail or something. The way they are doing it now, it seems like they are halfway charging him. I suppose there are benefits to doing it the way they do it or they wouldn't do it, but I like our way better.


32 posted on 08/19/2005 8:54:55 AM PDT by libsl (I'm just sayin'....)
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To: truthluva

Natalee's mom Aug. 18: Former FBI Profiler and MSNBC Analyst Clint Van Zandt sits down for a frank, one-on-one interview with Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty. Clint tries to retrace what happened on the fateful night Natalee vanished in Aruba and asks the probing questions that haven't been asked of Beth. Her answers will surprise you. MSNBC

Investigation continues in Aruba

Family presses for information on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway

FREE VIDEO

COMMENTARY

By Clint Van Zandt
MSNBC analyst & former FBI profiler
Updated: 9:00 a.m. ET Aug. 19, 2005

I am in Aruba to follow the case of disappearance of Natalee Holloway, having followed it from the USA since the beginning, and like most of the media people here I follow it from early morning to past midnight every day. It's easy to get caught up in this case, especially after spending a significant amount of time talking with Natalee's mother Beth. She is an intelligent, articulate, and focused woman with one goal, finding an answer to the disappearance of her daughter. She realizes that she is now the voice that speaks for her missing daughter, someone who cannot speak for herself. She is professional in her approach to this matter, she keeps very good notes (in a growing notebook) on everything involved in this case, and she is determined to get the answer she seeks. I would hope to be so tenacious were it one of my children that was missing.

This is a story within a story, intertwined with politics and other considerations on a 77 square mile piece of land that gets about 70% of its money from American tourists, and there are many here. The investigation continues to center on 18-year old Joran van der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers, only van der Sloot who remains in jail. It is hard to consider explanations for Natalee's disappearance other than foul play, although Arubans tell me that they believe that she simply ran away, perhaps with Joran's help, or she swam out into the water and drown, or she was carried away and sold into slavery, all versions that leave out the fact that the three primary suspects had the last known contact with the missing woman, that they have collectively told many stories or lies about their time with her the night she disappeared. In a statement made by van der Sloot to the police he suggested that one of the Kalpoe brothers had perhaps sexually assaulted, murdered and buried her, that he himself (van der Sloot) has confessed to having sexual contact with her when she could not resist (drugs, alcohol?), and/or that he later left her alone on the beach, a second violation of local law as he apparently left a vulnerable person in a place and condition where she could be victimized, all similar to US misdemeanors, probably at most with a six month sentence. However, you cannot be convicted simply on your own confession here, therefore, as Joran's father, Paulus van der Sloot is alleged to have said, "No body, no case."

As has been reported, there were apparent errors in the investigation, things that should have been done from day one that were not done until day 5 or 10, that may have been fatal errors as far as the investigation itself. I'm told, for example, that the van der Sloot residence, other than Joran's apartment, has never been officially searched by the police. Aruban investigators apparently simply write down statements offered by suspects with few if any follow up questions. Experienced Dutch investigators have subsequently been brought in to interview Joran, but by that time he was represented by counsel, and even though such counsel cannot speak to him during an interview by the police, a clearing of the throat, movement of one's chair, or other signals can be used to tell the suspect to watch out for that question. Others have suggested that during questioning that Joran has a mental picture of a sign in front of him, one with the date of Sept 4th on it, the day that he could be released if no other evidence is produced to implicate him in this case. Some believe that because of the Aruban national election on or about Sept. 25, that Joran may be held an additional 30 days, this to get the election past and then he could be released. Like so many other aspects of this case, no body seems to know.

The island has been searched and short of a search of the land fill, noting that one "witness" said he saw a blond woman being buried in the land fill the night Natalee disappeared, there does not appear to be anywhere else to search. Equa-Search has come and gone, and now one man with two search dogs remains, at least for another week, with no results to date. You will recall the Lori Hacking case in Salt Lake City where the murdered woman's body was found in the local land fill after an extensive search. The Holloway family has asked the local government to do the same here. A decision is pending on this matter, but it they had Dutch F-16's do photo fly overs that probably cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, you'd think the local government would spend the money needed to search the land fill and therefore complete the land search. There is one other lead. Someone has come forward with a machine that can allegedly detect human remains in water and has indicated that he has detected (from standing on the beach) such remains about one mile off shore from the beach where Joran said he left Natalee, this in about 100-180 feet of water. Searchers are considering putting divers in the water to check out this "lead" -- one of many bizarre and not so bizarre that have proven worthless in this case to date.

Part of this investigation is to determine if any suspect in this case has exhibited a previous pattern of behavior toward young women that would render such women to somehow be his victim. Should this be the case with any suspect, both investigators and Holloway family members would like to determine if such a person then had a history of approaching and singling out other women who were on the island for their last night and assaulting them in some fashion, with the suspect believing that his "victim" would simply leave the next day as opposed to seeking to file charges. Natalee's mother has appealed for any prior victims of any suspect to come forward, but if others were victimized in a similar manner, it could be hard for such individuals to acknowledge their victim status at this time, this with the accompanying social stigma that might be associated with their statements. That plea by Beth continues, one that says such victims can still get justice for themselves and for Natalee, and perhaps prevent future women from becoming victims in such cases.

This is, of course, investigative and emotional speculation at this time. Answers to such issues could explain why Natalee went off with someone she had just met that night, something that the Holloway family believe happened within a few minutes of her encounter with the current suspects the night she disappeared. The family also believe that Natalee left with Joran, but believed she was getting into a cab when she entered the Kalpoe's car. (Most "cabs" on Aruba appear to be in reality private cars with none of the identification normally found inside of US cabs, therefore it's reasonable for her to have possibly believed this.) Then there are allegations of 151 proof shots of alcohol being given to unsuspecting women in bars, stories of the use of date rape drugs, and other unsubstantiated ideas as to why Natalee left her friends to go off with a complete stranger the night she disappeared. The law and society of course provide for adults, Natalee was 18, Joran was 17, to have a consensual affair without any legal scrutiny -- the challenge here is to determine Natalee's level of consent that evening and what happened to her after she was seen driving away with van der Sloot and the Kalpoes.

Short of finding some evidence, or in the worse case scenario the victim herself in the land fill, this case may not be solved. Should there be other woman who have been victimized in a similar manner by any suspect in this case, their statements could be crucial to the Aruban court. The court could then consider such to represent a pattern of behavior on the suspect's part in its investigation, but such would still not directly address what happened to Natalee Holloway when she left the bar in Aruba, never to be seen again. The three current suspects in Aruba have nothing to gain by talking to the police -- no deals and no plea bargains can be struck, therefore there is no reason to tell what you know about another and possibly implicate yourself in the same case.

I know that some level of interest may be waning in America, especially with the people who complain "why so much attention to the blond white girl -- she should have known better; the escorts from her school should have been there; her friends should have stopped her; and it's really her fault." None of this would, of course, justify her murder by anyone, and a mother is left without answers, probably like many other parents around the world, but for what ever the reason, we are left watching this case. For the Holloway's this case will not end until they have their answer, and for the van der Sloot and the Kalpoe families, well, I'd expect that if and when Joran was released from jail that both families would probably consider leaving the island, and this matter behind them. And the Holloway family; they'll be left with fading pictures of Natalee and a mother's note book that has no final chapter.

33 posted on 08/19/2005 8:58:37 AM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: Designer

"Perhaps even in Aruba it would be a crime to lie to the polis."

You would think so...but, unfortunately it is not. According to several people/Aruban lawyers that have been on TV, it is not a crime to mislead the polis under Dutch law. Joran can say anything he wants and so can everyone else. Since that is the case it's doubtful that the truth will come from any of the current suspects. They do not offer plea deals under Dutch law so why would any of them actually tell the truth. If the lies turn this into a waiting game they know they will win.


34 posted on 08/19/2005 9:01:09 AM PDT by truthluva ("Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking" - JC Watts)
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To: libsl
It is refreshing to hear you refer to the "suspect"...
thanks for the come back...
35 posted on 08/19/2005 9:01:37 AM PDT by Fritzy (Fritzy)
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To: Mama25

You need to watch the 1960's comedy "Yours, Mine and Ours." Probably anything you face will look tame in comparison. Relax and have a great time!


36 posted on 08/19/2005 9:03:05 AM PDT by twigs
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'The Abrams Report' for August 18

'Scarborough Country' for August 18

37 posted on 08/19/2005 9:04:18 AM PDT by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
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To: libsl

I've thought for a long time now that this was bigger than just Natalee. I suppose that the VDSs and company could probably have gotten rid of the body, but it's the behavior of ALE and the island people who act so frightened that convince me that more is at stake.


38 posted on 08/19/2005 9:05:17 AM PDT by twigs
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To: twigs

That's a great movie! I watched it in the hospital after having my 4th (of five) children.


39 posted on 08/19/2005 9:10:42 AM PDT by Mama25 (The only chaps a girl can trust are those she wears.)
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To: Mama25

I really like it too. If you need to inject any humor into the situation, just remember Lucy losing her slip at the military club and having Fonda go back and get it, only to meet up again with the overheated babe looking for an officer.


40 posted on 08/19/2005 9:15:13 AM PDT by twigs
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To: looney tune

new thread bookmark


41 posted on 08/19/2005 9:39:17 AM PDT by looney tune
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To: Fritzy
Points well made. Cover ups are almost always worse than the crime, usually the undoing.

Like you, it's the phone calls that are the sticking point for me.

Right now, we are at a major juncture of disinformation: I'm not ready to jump on the Greta/Coale train yet. Could there be a connection, sure, but that little "international" article failed to give real facts.

Instead of the rentamob, it's much better to plant international articles about those reporting on the store, no?

I agree, if the key players sat down and told what happened in one room, what would happen? We know the courts in Aruba are basically useless...I'm sure it would be presented in a manner so that the VDS would be free. The US can't enforce any laws. But maybe Beth would get her answers.
42 posted on 08/19/2005 9:39:23 AM PDT by Rusty Roberts (Aruba has a bad case of the VDS)
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To: Paisan
First of all, there is, as of yet, no evidence of a crime. Only a disappearance.

Try sexual assault and kidnapping for starters..

43 posted on 08/19/2005 9:54:59 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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bttt


44 posted on 08/19/2005 9:59:35 AM PDT by Dark Skies (All Muslims aren't evil...just the real ones.)
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*


45 posted on 08/19/2005 9:59:55 AM PDT by girlscout
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To: TexKat

Don't let the turkeys getcha down, TexKat. Many of us appreciate you.


46 posted on 08/19/2005 10:00:55 AM PDT by Marysecretary (Thank you, Lord, for FOUR MORE YEARS!!!)
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To: xrp

What's with the nasty remarks, xrp? Unnecessary!


47 posted on 08/19/2005 10:01:42 AM PDT by Marysecretary (Thank you, Lord, for FOUR MORE YEARS!!!)
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To: TexKat
On SM,

"NBC 13 in Birmingham reported that Beth and Jug gave Fred the search guy $2,000 (which he requested) to continue seaching.....THEN he told them that he had to return home to take care of business but would return next week. grrrrrrrrr"

48 posted on 08/19/2005 10:02:22 AM PDT by monkeywrench (Deut. 27:17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbor's landmark)
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To: Paisan
Let us hope that history does not repeat itself in the same manner

Has to happen sometime. They'll pick it up around the 4th I imagine, or if something turns up. What was Lacle smirking about, I mean what was the big blow to the prosecutions case?

49 posted on 08/19/2005 10:03:13 AM PDT by johnb838 (Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.)
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To: libsl

I've heard about a connection to a drug ring, or a porn ring. I wish the Vandersluts would let them examine the well in their yard. So far they've refused. Hmmmmm....


50 posted on 08/19/2005 10:05:41 AM PDT by Marysecretary (Thank you, Lord, for FOUR MORE YEARS!!!)
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