Posted on 09/15/2005 9:28:57 AM PDT by qam1
Exactly. People with children conveniently forget the rest of us are covering them too.
Correlation is not causation. There are plenty of 30-something and 40-something individuals with children who are "self-centered prima-donnas with little or no maturity". (These people are the worst IMO, treating their children as baubles.)
The ability to get knocked up has no bearing on maturity or character. Where I live, being childless in your 30s and 40s is normal, and not remotely a mark of maturity.
And the parents were urged to find themselves and free themselves from burdens of childcare and the chains of traditional societal roles. All courtesy of the 60's-70's and their 'me' message and the greed and drugs, etc. How could the gen X'ers be any different? (I'm not excusing, but it's easy to see why they've become disillusioned...)
And the parents were urged to find themselves and free themselves from burdens of childcare and the chains of traditional societal roles. All courtesy of the 60's-70's and their 'me' message and the greed and drugs, etc. How could the gen X'ers be any different? (I'm not excusing, but it's easy to see why they've become disillusioned...)
I wasn't boasting and wasn't being snide.
I pay the property taxes for my school district, so you are being intellectually dishonest by saying that he is paying for my kids since I am paying a share too every time I get a paycheck or write that mortgage check.
Sorry that he pays a boatload of taxes. I have an intense dislike for the current tax system and would like to see the IRS abolished altogether.
That said, if I was bringing home six figures, I wouldn't be saying that I wasn't certain of my ability to support children.
If you make that much money, you can certainly have and provide for a dozen children.
Unless you just can't bear to part with that 4th car you have parked in your garage. Then you better stick with just 6 kids. ;-D
That was a joke, but I intend it to show quite a bit of scorn for someone who openly posts about making six figures and then has the nerve to say that he isn't certain he can provide for kids.
That's just ridiculous.
We don't treat them like a liability, they are a liability by any reasonable analysis. And society pretends like they are an asset. The reason we are even having this discussion is that society is "shocked" that reality is not conforming to their ideals when it is patently obvious that the ideal is based on invalid assumptions.
There was a time when children were an asset, but it has been a while since that was true. Most people clearly recognize this in their behavior (biological urges notwithstanding), even if society has yet to acknowledge it.
(((Corin)))
This is my observation too. No children or one child.
Thanks, Corin.....Ruthy and I are well acquainted with each other.
I am having a bit of an issue right now with the school district - but that is more because the principal, teachers and I are on the same side and the PTB don't like it :) But I am extremely happy with the district.
But what is the remedy? I believe that government and society do have an obligation to do what they can to encourage the furtherance of the species and the country by encouraging families. The only means they have to do this is through monetary and tax policy. Would you support a movement to change those policies in ways that would support families?
Laissez-nous faire
Half of our problem today is social engineering run amok. More social engineering is unlikely to help.
Culture and civility are more important to civilization than law. These united States have spent the last several generations destroying the foundations of civil society.
It is sad, bad and dangerous. I would like to see it changed. Would you?
Absolutely, but we didn't paint ourselves into to this corner overnight and nor will we escape our current dilemma overnight.
Its not simply a matter of knowing what to do.
Decadence is *knowing* the correct course of action but being incapable of taking that course.
OUCH.
So in your mind those of us paying taxes should NOT avail ourselves of such things as the public school system just because people that don't use them are also paying for them?
Wrong. There is nothing on this earth more sobering or more maturing than when you take responsibility for a new life. The childless can deny this until they are all blue in the face but it won't change the veracity of it at all.
"For most people, it does not make sense to have children in your 20s which is the real reason this is happening -- if it isn't rational, most people won't do it."
Which is why I tell my daughters to live their lives from their hearts rather than relying on their minds to know what's best for them.
There are things one just cannot know until one has aged, has lived, and has observed one's peers live (no one really pays much attention to older people-- people mostly figure that THEIR generation has all the answers.) So, by my reckoning, if one knows in their heart that they are meant to have children, one should go ahead, while one who either does not know that, or knows the opposite, shouldn't.
I was the first kind, so I had children in my twenties. Now, I'm 46 and both are in college. My husband and I are young and healthy enough to do everything we want to (hike, camp, travel, pursue new interests like art) and we have plenty of money and time to do them. Life is great!
One learns and grows from raising children-- not that it cannot be done in any other way as it obviously can, but it can also be more easily avoided by the childless. Parenting tests us, hones our character, and ultimately separates the wheat from the chaff. Just as I know people who say that the Marine Corps MADE them, I feel the same way about parenting-- it MADE me.
You can't be serious? Children aren't an asset? Survival of the species is advantageous (an understatement) and last time I checked, we needed to breed to insure our continued survival..
Sorry - you do not need one for the other. Do my husband and I believe in God? Of course we do. Is that what our relationship is based upon? No. Does that make us bad people? No. Does it make us less likely to stay together? Absolutely not.
Some day you'll have to explain the multitude of immature idiots with children that are clearly present in our society. Either having children imparts only a marginal amount of maturity on the parents such that there are childless individuals who have more baseline maturity than these individuals with children, or you are over-stating your position.
As more of a pedantic "that is a stupid point" nitpick, taking responsibility for a life is what it is, whether you are talking about a baby or a stranger.
I can not believe comments like this.
I'm just pointing out the truth about who is paying to raise them.
Drop all the handwavy touchy-feely stuff (that is the domain of liberals) and do the hard, cold math. I have no objection to people having children, but I do object when people pretend they are something they are not as a matter of principle. They are a liability in every sense of the word, arguably even emotionally if one does an objective analysis.
Classifying anything as private property, instead of as community property subject to government control, is hardly socialist.
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