I have bookmarked the site.
Posted on 10/04/2005 12:33:44 AM PDT by injin
SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - An organizer of a planned memorial to honor Confederate soldiers who died at an Illinois prison camp says the rebel flag will be displayed at the memorial's dedication, despite opposition.
"We consider this an honorable flag. This is a soldier's flag," said Ron Casteel, national chief of staff for the Sons of Confederate Veterans, one of the memorial's planners. "There will be no substitute."
Camp Butler, just east of Springfield, was a training facility for Union troops during the Civil War and a prison camp for more than 3,500 captured Confederates. More than 800 of the prisoners died and were buried there, and the site is now a national cemetery.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Obama, Turbin, NAACP and ADL all object.
TOUGH! The flag can be carried in and out during memorial dedications.
Let them fly the flag for this memorial. It's a memorial. Let them fly the flag at this memorial. The rebound rebellion about this flag has gone on long enough, the point has been made, so now, let them fly this flag at this (or any related) memorial. Maybe the rebellious interests should try and understand the other side of the issue for a change.
have a look please
http://www.confederateflags.org/
she will fly forever , as long as folks remember , and some do...
I have bookmarked the site.
imoho
The confederate flag is a monument to dying for shortsighted stupidity.
The confederate flag is a monument to state's rights.
If that is the case, then so is every flag under which a soldier has died, for every was has some short sighted stupid moment that gets someone killed.
I Agree. I fly the First National flag at my home along with the American Flag. Most people do not know what it is. Unfortunately, the battle flag has been desecrated by the KKK and Nazi hate groups and that is truly a shame. Many brave Americans died under that flag and would have fought against those hate groups with the same ferocity that they fought the Northern Aggressors
Denial is not a river in Egypt.
I once read the story of a black gentleman living on Cottage Grove in Chicago who flew the Stars & Bars over his yard. The reason was that his home rested on the site of a POW camp where many southern soldiers died. He simply did it out of respect. As far as I know, that flag still flies over one of Chicago's poorest and blackest neighborhoods.
DIXIE Bump [><]
Your post is a monument to shortsighted stupidity. Have a Dixie Day.
My ancestors had their lives ruined by fighting against the stupidity and shortsightedness of the democrats, both north and south. If they had ceased slavery, countless lives would have been saved.
Not really. It reminds people of the shortsighted stupidity that so many Southerners fought against.
are you drinking the REVISIONIST,DAMNyankee kool-aide this AM??
free dixie,sw
free dixie,sw
That is actually the point. The Battle Flag is just that - a soldier's flag. Flying a flag that represents the Confederate Government would be making a different statement.
Thanks for the bump, Stainless! Long time no hear from... glad to see your screen name pop up again.
Deo Vindice!
Reb
FACT!
fwiw, slavery was NOT the "main" or "major" or "only" cause of the WBTS. only about 5-6% of Northerners AND Southerners ever owned even one slave AND slavery was dying an UNlamented, natural death due to advancements in agriculture.
free dixie,sw
IIRC, a black-owned funeral home sits on the site of Camp Douglas, a POW camp built for Confederate soldiers captured at Fort Donelson. Douglas was, by most accounts, only a step above Andersonville, especially since the captured Rebs were ill-equipped to handle the Chicago winter. At least there was a system of prisoner exchanges set up during that portion of the Unpleasantness, so many who would probably have died from the Northern winter were paroled back South.
Anyway, the owner of the funeral home flies the Confederate flag on the property as a memorial. If you're dilligent enough, I believe the story can be found in the FR archives.
>>>The confederate flag is a monument to dying for shortsighted stupidity.<<<
We should all feel proud that Free Republic has a bonafide expert on short-sighted stupidity.
let's fly ALL the dixie flags there!
i'll pay out of my own pocket for a CHEROKEE BRAVES 5x8 embroidered flag/flagpole to fly, if we can do this.
free dixie,sw
>>>It reminds people of the shortsighted stupidity that so many Southerners fought against. <<<
They should have known that all power would eventually be consolidated in Washington no matter how much blood they spilled, right?
FYI, I am very proud of my ancestors who fought in the War of Northern Agression and my ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War.
Thanks for the ping and good for those folks.
TEXAS FOREVER!
Hey dingbat, the rebel Flag is being used to honor those poor souls who died in an Illinois prison. I hate to puncture your puffy little world, but many of the Northern Prisons were every bit a death camp as those in the South. War is hell. However, we can at least honor those who fought and gave the ultimate price for both sides.
If that music is "Dixie," "Maryland My Maryland" or "Bonnie Blue Flag," yes we do.
I'd like to see a 2nd National flying outside or over and building or place that had historic significance to the Confederate States.
IIRC, the 1st National was adopted in 1861, the 2nd in late 1863 and the 3rd in early 1865. The SCV's position is that the 3rd National is still the official flag of the Confederacy since the Confederate Congress approved it and has never changed it or disavowed that approval.
And on special days and times I would like to see groups of reenactors/living historians gather at those places while proudly holding reproductions of battle flags from the various regiments.
Amen to that! I am a member of the Maryland Division SCV Color Guard as well as a reenactor and have marched in many a parade carrying any of a wide variety of Confederate flags.
Obama?
Who who who who's yer daddy?
Only democrats would be stupid enough to die by the hundreds of thousands for slavery. My republican ancestors were fighting to END slavery.
THOUSANDS of CSA helpless POWs were tortured, intentionally starved, denied medical care & shelter, tortured & in MANY cases MURDERED in cold blood at those DAMNyankee HELLHOLES.
FOUR of my relatives were MURDERED at Point Lookout, mostly because they were NOT WHITE people.
think DACHAU in America here!
free dixie,sw
I am a good old rebel, that is just what I am,
For this fair land of freedom I do not care a damn,
I'm glad I fought against it but I only wished I'd won,
And I don't want a pardon for anything I've done.
I hate the constitution, this great republic too,
I hate the Freedman's Bureau in uniforms so blue,
I hate the nasty eagle with all the brag and fuss,
And the lying, thieving Yankees, I hate 'em wuss and wuss.
I hate the Yankee nation and everything they do,
I hate the Declaration of Independence too,
I hate the glorious Union, 'tis dripping with our blood,
And I fought 'em all I could.
I followed old Marse Robert for four year near about,
Got wounded in three place and starved at Point Lookout,
I caught the rheumatism a-campin' in the snow,
But I killed a chance of Yankees and I wish I'd killed some more.
Three hundred thousand Yankees lie stiff in Southern dust.
We got three hundred thousand before they conquered us,
They died of Southern fever, Southern steel and shot,
And I wish it was three million instead of what we got.
I can't take up my musket and fight 'em now no more,
But I ain't goin' to love 'em now that's certain sure,
And I don't want no pardon for what I was and am,
And I won't be reconstructed and I don't give a damn.
(dislcaimer- this is an old traditional folk song of the times ;^)
Everybody's Dixie
Southrons, hear your country call you,
Up, lest worse than death befall you!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Lo! all the beacon-fires are lighted,--
Let all hearts be now united!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
CHORUS:
Advance the flag of Dixie!
Hurrah! Hurrah!
In Dixie's land we take our stand,
And live or die for Dixie!
To arms! To arms!
And conquer peace for Dixie!
To arms! To arms!
And conquer peace for Dixie!
Hear the Northern thunders mutter!
Northern flags in South winds flutter!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Send them back your fierce defiance!
Stamp upon the cursed alliance!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Fear no danger! Shun no labour!
Lift up rifle, pike, and sabre!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Shoulder pressing close to shoulder,
Let the odds make each heart bolder!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
How the South's great heart rejoices
At your cannon's ringing voices!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
For faith betrayed and pledges broken,
Wrongs inflicted, insults spoken,
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Strong as lions, swift as eagles,
Back to their kennels hunt these beagles!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Cut the unequal bonds asunder!
Let them hence each other plunder!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Swear upon your country's altar
Never to submit or falter--
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Till the spoilers are defeated,
Till the Lord's work is completed!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Halt not till our Federation
Secures among earth's powers its station!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Then at peace and crowned with glory,
Hear your children tell the story!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
If the loved ones weep in sadness,
Victory soon shall bring them gladness--
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
Exultant pride soon vanish sorrow;
Smiles chase tears away to-morrow!
To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!--
You must have something against thinking? The Civil War was much more than a Dem and Republican thing. Many of my family fought in that war and not one of them had anything to do with slavery. I honor them as I honor all those who fought in all of America's wars.
Do you have any concept whatsoever of the harm that whining and sniveling about the democrat confederacy flag does to the image of the republican party?
The only thng short-sighted is your concepion of history.
Wow! What an incredible amount of work this site has! For us history buffs, it's an amazing site! Thanks for posting the link.
???????????
No. I fail to see a connection between any harm to the Republican Party and revering a flag under which many brave men served and died for something they believed in, and that something wasn't salvery - it was the defense of their state against an invasion by an army of troops from a coalition of other states.
The Confederate Battle Flag has as much to do with the Ku Klux Klan and other hate groups as the Christian Cross does - they use that too. That is to say absolutely nothing.
You'd think it was a swasticker or hammer and sickle.
Alexander Stephens never fought under a Confederate Battle Flag and he was expressing his personal opinion.
The personal opinion of the majority of Confederate Soldiers who fought and died under that flag was that they were fighting against an invader which wass threatening their soil and their homes and their families, and the ovewhelming number of them didn't even own a slave and never owned one.
If the North was opposed by an army composed only of slave owners and people who were willing to die for the right of some rich planter to own a slave the War between the States would have ended in about 15 minutes.
"He was the VICE PRESIDENT OF THE CSA! What would he know?"
What motivates politicians does not necessarily motivate soldiers.
Think about it. You're a hardscabble dirt farmer in the back hills of Georgia. You don't own a slave, you can barely support your family. Chnaces are you don't even live in an area with slaves.
Some politician comes over to you and says "You gotta enlist in the Confederate Army boy, we need you to fight and die to support our way of life."
"Well, what do you mean by our way of life?" the farmer says.
"Well, you know" the politician continues " all those slaves down in the tidewater. Better folks need them to keep up their mansions and send their kids to Europe for schooling, and pay for all their fineries and geegads"
And what do you think the dirt farmer will say?
"WHy sure, Marsa, I'se git my gun and go off and fight for those slaves of yours".
Come on. The reason the average Confederate soldier fought was because he was told that a Yankee Army was invading his state. and would be threatening his family, and his way of life (which didn't involve slaves).
People back then considered themselves Americans, but they also thought very strongly of themselves as Virginians, Massachusetts Men, etc. Even in the Union Army, troops were recruited and organized along state lines, not national lines.
Sure there was a caste system in the South, but I doubt if that provided enough inspiration to take a minie ball in the arm or leg.
"CSA soldiers not owning slaves is irrelevant. It was about maintaining a culture...a thouroughly evil one at that. Tell a toothless moron that he's better than the other guy with the dark skin and he'll fight and die for you--that's all the Confederacy proved."
It was about maintaining a culture, but the kind of culure the average Confederate was fighting for did not involve slaves, plantations, cotillions, and crinoline. It involved hard farm work on a small holding run with his own hands.
And I never said slavery was not an evil institution. It was. It has no right existing and should have been "dealt with" in 1776.
And I don't think these people were toothless morons. They may have been unsophisticated, but then the sophisticated people were the ones getting rich on another man's sweat and toil - that of the black slave.
The Confederacy proved that if people think they are being threatened and their way of life is being desttroyed by an invader, they will fight and die to protect their families and homes.
The same thing motivated Yankees. They were fighting to maintain a way of life that involved a united country, not to free some black slaves - with several notable exceptions like Colonel Shaw, or Benjamin Butler. But they represented the aristocracy of the north, not the average midwestern farm boy or factory worker from the northeast.
"Read the speeches these vicious CSA leaders gave to "fire up" the citizenry of the South. It's littered with "Negroes raping your women" and "Negroes having an equal status with a white man" (SHOCKING!)."
I think more of that went on AFTER the war during the Ku Klux Klan era.
"These people were ALL DEMOCRATS---why are you defending them?"
??????
I'm defending the fact that these men fought bravely and paid the ultimate price - in many cases - for a cause they believed in, and most of them were neither slave owners nor connected to the slave economy.
Democrat and Republican back then meant very different things than they do now.
Like I sadi, if the Amry of Northern Virginia was staffed by slave-owners and slave owner sympathizers, the war would have been over in 15 minutes.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.