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There is no proof that we evolved from apes. Period
the Sunday Telegraph ^ | 9/11/05 | Vij Sodera

Posted on 12/15/2005 9:10:41 AM PST by flevit

Simon Schama appears to have little understanding of biology (Opinion, September 4). With an ostrich mindset that tries to ignore reality, pseudo-scientists continue in the vain hope that if they shout loud and long enough they can perpetuate the fairy story and bad science that is evolution.

You don't have to be a religious fundamentalist to question evolution theory - you just have to have an open and enquiring mind and not be afraid of challenging dogma. But you must be able to discern and dodge the effusion of evolutionary landmines that are bluster and non sequiturs.

No one denies the reality of variation and natural selection. For example, chihuahuas and Great Danes can be derived from a wolf by selective breeding. Therefore, a chihuahua is a wolf, in the same way that people of short stature and small brain capacity are fully human beings.

However, there is no evidence (fossil, anatomical, biochemical or genetic) that any creature did give rise, or could have given rise, to a different creature. In addition, by their absence in the fossil record for (supposed) millions of years along with the fact of their existence during the same time period, many animals such as the coelacanth demonstrate the principle that all creatures could have lived contemporaneously in the past.

No evidence supports the notion that birds evolved from dinosaurs, nor that whales evolved from terrestrial quadrupeds, nor that the human knee joint evolved from a fish pelvic fin. And the critically-positioned amino acids at the active sites within enzymes and structural proteins show that the origination of complex proteins by step-wise modifications of supposed ancestral peptides is impossible. In other words, birds have always been birds, whales have always been whales, apes did not evolve into humans, and humans have always been humans.

But you might protest that it has been proved that we evolved from apes. In fact, the answer is a categorical No. Australopithecines, for example, were simply extinct apes that in a few anatomical areas differed from living apes. If some of them walked bipedally to a greater degree than living apes, this does not constitute evidence that apes evolved into humans - it just means that some ancient apes were different from living apes.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: anotherevotalltale; clowntown; creationisthicks; creationuts; crevolist; drzaiusrules; evilutionuts; evolution; foolsaysthereisnogod; fruitcakes; goddooditamen; idiocy; ignoranceisstrength; ignoranceonparade; moron
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second time, (first one hopefully deleted)
1 posted on 12/15/2005 9:10:42 AM PST by flevit
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To: flevit

Oh yes there is -- the liberal Democrats!


2 posted on 12/15/2005 9:11:59 AM PST by EagleUSA
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To: flevit

He's right - he has not evolved.


3 posted on 12/15/2005 9:12:08 AM PST by GSlob
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To: flevit

Someone should have checked out talkorigins before writing this. I believe just about every point is soundly refuted there.


4 posted on 12/15/2005 9:12:28 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: flevit

I'm no biologist, but I don't think evolutionists claim that humans evolved from apes.


5 posted on 12/15/2005 9:12:46 AM PST by BikerNYC (Modernman should not have been banned.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

about the author:

http://www.onesmallspeck.com

http://www.onesmallspeck.com/author.html


6 posted on 12/15/2005 9:13:25 AM PST by flevit
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To: flevit
There is no proof that we evolved from apes. Period

Evidence (if you want proof, try mathematics, photography, or a fine Scotch):

Figure 1.4.4. Fossil hominid skulls. Some of the figures have been modified for ease of comparison (only left-right mirroring or removal of a jawbone). (Images © 2000 Smithsonian Institution.)


7 posted on 12/15/2005 9:13:32 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: flevit

Only a matter of time before a ping and a wave of defenders of the evolution dogma.


8 posted on 12/15/2005 9:13:40 AM PST by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: EagleUSA

Defensive tackles, gorillas. You do the math. ;)


9 posted on 12/15/2005 9:13:42 AM PST by TXBSAFH ("I would rather be a free man in my grave then living as a puppet or a slave." - Jimmy Cliff)
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To: flevit

I present al franken, as proof that you are in error...


10 posted on 12/15/2005 9:14:21 AM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: BikerNYC
I'm no biologist, but ...

That's how this article should have begun.

11 posted on 12/15/2005 9:15:16 AM PST by rattrap
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To: flevit

12 posted on 12/15/2005 9:15:23 AM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: flevit
"And the critically-positioned amino acids at the active sites within enzymes and structural proteins show that the origination of complex proteins by step-wise modifications of supposed ancestral peptides is impossible. In other words, birds have always been birds, whales have always been whales, apes did not evolve into humans, and humans have always been humans. "

rubbish

13 posted on 12/15/2005 9:16:13 AM PST by Kelly_2000 ( Because they stand on a wall and say nothing is going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch)
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To: rattrap

http://www.onesmallspeck.com/author.html


14 posted on 12/15/2005 9:17:03 AM PST by flevit
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To: rattrap

LOL. Indeed.


15 posted on 12/15/2005 9:17:03 AM PST by BikerNYC (Modernman should not have been banned.)
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To: EagleUSA
My dad used to say we had many relatives that swung by their necks but none that swung by their tails. Silly, I know.
16 posted on 12/15/2005 9:17:22 AM PST by svcw
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To: flevit

Its impossible to explian the obvious to someone with a closed mind.

Evolution does NOT state we descended from Apes. It states that Apes and men had a common ancestor.

People who refuse to recognize evolution have a Quranic mindset which shuts out the vast amount of evidence which clearly indicates that life DID evolve, that the early fossil record shows very primitive simple life forms, that successive geological deposits have revealed increasingly more complex life forms which bear obvious anatomical resemblence to existing or later forms.

EVEN IF YOU COULD PRODUCE A LIVE ACTION FILM showing evolution occuring over the time span of millions of years, these people would still refute what was unfolding before their eyes.

This is because their objections are rooted in their version of faith, and not in any scientific or logical analysis. They have managed to conviince themselves that:

1) The Bible is in disagreement with evolution

2) Obvioulsy the Bible is correct.

3) Therefore evolution didn't occur.

The holes in this chain of logic have been hashed, re-hashed and re-re-hashed in numerous arguments. There is NOTHING which which change their minds.


17 posted on 12/15/2005 9:18:46 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: flevit
At times I've found/felt the 'two legged beast' among us/standing right next to me. LOL

http://www.reasons.org

18 posted on 12/15/2005 9:18:51 AM PST by shield (The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instructions.Pr 1:7)
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To: svcw

I gotta have a banana and think about that one...


19 posted on 12/15/2005 9:19:08 AM PST by LearsKent
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To: Kelly_2000
rubbish

Good argument. I know it convinced me.

20 posted on 12/15/2005 9:19:22 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: flevit

Actually, the theory is that both man and apes evolved from a common ancestor.


21 posted on 12/15/2005 9:19:26 AM PST by Paradox (Time to sharpen ole Occam's Razor.)
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To: flevit
Of course not - This is how it all began as everyone knows: The "Block" insipired the apes!
22 posted on 12/15/2005 9:20:00 AM PST by The_Republican
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To: ZULU

yes a bacterium like organism...even less likely


23 posted on 12/15/2005 9:20:07 AM PST by flevit
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To: flevit

If apes evoloved into man, why is there still apes?


24 posted on 12/15/2005 9:21:57 AM PST by phil1750 (Love like you've never been hurt;Dance like nobody's watching;PRAY like it's your last prayer)
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To: Paradox

nope, bacteria like organism, the common ancestor to all...or
as chemical evolution, an inorganic molecule.


25 posted on 12/15/2005 9:22:08 AM PST by flevit
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To: ShadowAce
*sigh*

I am just tired of these kinds of debates posting the real facts to anyone who is not a scientist is problematic

26 posted on 12/15/2005 9:22:18 AM PST by Kelly_2000 ( Because they stand on a wall and say nothing is going to hurt you tonight. Not on my watch)
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To: flevit

Lloyd Pye explained it all on Coast to Coast AM the other night:

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2005/12/13.html

Humans are actually bio-engineered and not native to planet Earth.


27 posted on 12/15/2005 9:23:22 AM PST by Gefreiter ("Are you drinking 1% because you think you're fat?")
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To: flevit

My statement is correct. I was merely correcting your initial mistatement.


28 posted on 12/15/2005 9:23:48 AM PST by Paradox (Time to sharpen ole Occam's Razor.)
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To: flevit
>Simon Schama appears to have little understanding of biology (Opinion, September 4). With an ostrich mindset that tries to ignore reality, pseudo-scientists continue in the vain hope that if they shout loud and long enough they can perpetuate the fairy story and bad science that is evolution

Simon Schama is
a smart, entertaining guy.
But his specialty

is art history.
If he's talking science then
he's like you and me.

29 posted on 12/15/2005 9:24:22 AM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: flevit

No Helen Thomas photos?


30 posted on 12/15/2005 9:24:55 AM PST by HereInTheHeartland (Never bring a knife to a gun fight, or a Democrat to do serious work...)
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To: theFIRMbss

Vij Sodera was born in India and has lived in England since the age of 4 years. He attended St Clement Danes Grammar School in London, gaining major school prizes for academic achievement and art, and graduated from Sheffield University Medical School in 1975 with distinction in chemistry. He became a Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh in 1981.

mmmmm.


31 posted on 12/15/2005 9:25:07 AM PST by flevit
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To: flevit

Trying to explain biological science to this clown is like trying to explain economics to a DUmmie socialist.


32 posted on 12/15/2005 9:25:11 AM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: ZULU
"People who refuse to recognize evolution have a Quranic mindset ... "

The weaker the postition, the stronger the attacks and accusations.

I learned that from Libs/'Rats.

And I'm offended, 'Zulu'.

Go throw spears.

33 posted on 12/15/2005 9:26:12 AM PST by manwiththehands ("Have a RamaHanuKwanzMas" - Glenn Beck (And Merry Christmas!) (... and "Happy Holidays!"))
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To: steve-b

http://www.onesmallspeck.com/author.html

I take it you didn't look at the link


34 posted on 12/15/2005 9:27:01 AM PST by flevit
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To: manwiththehands

"Go throw spears."

"The weaker the postition, the stronger the attacks and accusations."

I ain't no liberal, and I'm offended by your equating me with one.

If you want to believe that God intended the Bible to be a scientific text for a tribe of neolithic shepherds, instead of a guide to life and promise of eternal salvation through a Saviour, be my guest.

As I stated, their is absolutely nothing I can say or demonstrate to change your mind.



35 posted on 12/15/2005 9:29:39 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: flevit

???????????


36 posted on 12/15/2005 9:30:10 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: phil1750
To treat this as a serious question, because volcanic activity took place in Africa a long time ago and split the continent into a dry eastern half and a wet western half. When the east half of Africa dried up because moisture was blocked by the mountains and became the Savannah we know today, swinging from trees was no longer practical. Only animals which could travel long distances at a relatively fast pace could survive. That's why people are bipedal and have incredible endurance compared to other primates. The apes on the western side of Africa survived just fine as it was still wet and covered with trees.

That's why.
37 posted on 12/15/2005 9:31:04 AM PST by oldleft
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To: flevit

Much better.

[Popping popcorn]...


38 posted on 12/15/2005 9:32:04 AM PST by null and void (Peace on Earth. Death to the Terrorists...)
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To: ZULU

a bacteria (like thing) is THE common ancestor to every living thing (supposedly) it is your grandfather given (supposedly) enough generation...ape/humans is just up the chain of grandfathers.


39 posted on 12/15/2005 9:33:05 AM PST by flevit
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To: BikerNYC

George Carlin used to say "If we're descended from apes, how come there are still apes?"

Hey, what do I know? I was history major!

Now, if you want to talk about the Fredrick Jackson Turner Thesis, well OK!


40 posted on 12/15/2005 9:34:10 AM PST by RexBeach ("The rest of the world is three drinks behind." -Humphrey Bogart)
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To: EagleUSA

You've never met my ex-boyfriend!


41 posted on 12/15/2005 9:35:25 AM PST by Hildy (Keyboard warrior princess - typing away for truth, justice and the American way!)
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To: flevit
There is no proof that we evolved from apes. Period

Correct... there's never even been a theory that we evolved from ~apes~ exactly. ;~D

42 posted on 12/15/2005 9:36:09 AM PST by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/ 1,000 knives and counting!)
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To: RexBeach
"If we're descended from apes, how come there are still apes?"

The answer is in PatrickHenry's List-O-Links.

43 posted on 12/15/2005 9:37:30 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: flevit

BTTT


44 posted on 12/15/2005 9:38:36 AM PST by cgk (I don't see myself as a conservative. I see myself as a religious, right-wing, wacko extremist.)
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To: Coyoteman

It is simply not possible to PROVE evolution with fossils.

There are too many counter explainations, and the fossil records don't usually contain a lot of complete skeletons.

The fossils are too old to extract DNA.

There is lots of evidence that can be used to support the theory of evolution. None that proves it.

You can put up pictures of skulls, but those scientific names gave are based on the idea that if it look like a human but different, it must be part of the fossil record showing evolution.

At most they might be able to provide evidence that there was a different species of that more closely resembled humans than apes in the past. They can't prove evolution.

We do not yet have the means to prove evolution, and almost impossible if not impossible to disprove as well. Maybe that will change as we learn more.


45 posted on 12/15/2005 9:39:03 AM PST by untrained skeptic
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To: ZULU
Take the Bible completely out of the equation and you still have nothing. You don't need the Bible for an argument. I guess somewhere in the basement of the Smithsonian there is tons of proof of evolution but they don't want to show it to us just yet.
46 posted on 12/15/2005 9:40:09 AM PST by fish hawk (creatio ex nihilo)
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To: Coyoteman

Hey, remember, I was a history major! Thanks for the link(s).


47 posted on 12/15/2005 9:40:51 AM PST by RexBeach ("The rest of the world is three drinks behind." -Humphrey Bogart)
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To: Coyoteman

http://www.onesmallspeck.com/chapter%2010%20human%20fossils.html

I would certainly, like to read the who chapter.

the evidence you show are skulls of various forms...

the explination of which shows a timeline of change/relative-ness...above is an alternative explination.


48 posted on 12/15/2005 9:41:12 AM PST by flevit
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To: flevit

"There is no proof that we evolved from apes."

Ever been up close with Teddy Kennedy?


49 posted on 12/15/2005 9:41:26 AM PST by MindBender26 (Having my own CAR-15 in RVN meant never having to say I was sorry......)
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To: flevit

That is probably correct.


50 posted on 12/15/2005 9:42:44 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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