Catholic Analysis: Mariology is Biblical

Vivificat! - A Catholic Blog of Commentary and Opinion ^ | 27 December 2005 | Teófilo

[Teófilo]

Folks, my blogger colleague, Oswald Sobrino of Catholic Analysis, has written a good essay regarding "Mariology," that is, the theological study and liturgical recognition of the place of Mary, the Mother of the Lord, the Theotokos, in the economy of salvation. It is entitled Mariology is Biblical. Here's an extract:

One of the great stumbling blocks for our Protestant brethren who are on the verge of crossing the Tiber, i.e., entering into full communion with the Catholic Church, is the great attention paid to the Mother of Jesus by Catholics. This hesitation is understandable: Protestantism is a reaction against Catholicism, and one of the reactions has been, historically, to exile the Mother of Jesus from salvation history. In recent times, some Protestants have sought to correct this strange exile of the Mother of God by looking back to the writings of the Church Fathers and to the early ecumenical councils, especially the fifth century Council of Ephesus. Yet, even Catholics can have a hard time responding to the insistent Protestant plea that to venerate Mary is to somehow detract from the one Mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).

...

The crux of the matter is that Mary's extraordinary mediation as Mother of Jesus derives from and is included in the unique mediatorship of Christ himself. What we ask our Protestant brethren to consider prayerfully, and, yes, quite biblically, is that the mediatorship of Christ is inclusive and admits of and even insists upon our participation. If we participate, as Paul did, then certainly the one whom the ecumenical Council of Ephesus termed the "Mother of God" or "God-bearer" in 431 A.D. does also. Interestingly, today, even some conservative evangelical Protestant scholars openly refer to Mary as "Mother of God" based on the significance they ascribe to the Council of Ephesus. They are discovering the riches of the faith preserved for them through the centuries preceding the Reformation by none other than the Catholic Church.

- I urge all of you to read the entire piece at Catholic Analysis.

[Teófilo]

Typos. Blunders. Mine.

[Teófilo]

CATHOLIC PING

[vimto]

You do Mary no favors by this idolatry.

[Teófilo]

You do Mary no favors by this idolatry.

Mary needs no favors beyond those God gave to her. We only recognize these favors. Please, read the essay.

-Theo

[xzins]

Merry Christmas, Teofilo, and a Happy New Year.

I am hitting the road shortly, but I wanted simply to say that this is another thread that connects to the proselytization of Protestants. In light of that, it necessary again to state that the biblical basis of Mariology is extremely weak in terms of the Assumption of Mary and non-existent in terms of the Immaculate Conception of Mary.

There was another thread on this about a week or two ago that I'd ping folks to, but I'm sure others will make the same points as were on that thread.

In any case, I do pray that the Lord will bless all His children -- those who have called upon His name -- this Christmas Season.

[vimto]

First of all I would wish to apologize for the curt sound of my post, please accept that It wasn't intended thus.

There is one God and one mediator between God and man - that is Jesus Christ.

But look - I can tell you that Mariology is not a stumbling block in the UK for any priest I know who wants to cross over - they love all things Catholic - Mary and the Pope. They don't need convincing on this.

Oh, bother I know we end up hammering against one another on this - and I would rather stay quiet - but this is so important.

Lets put it like this - Catholicism does not need a Biblical model for Mary as Tradition is enough to give your Churches authority. If that is the case I understand your stance, don't agree with it - but so what. But to claim biblical authority for Mariology is a work of supererogation and can only be maintained by strange exegesis. I will now read the whole article while awaiting you reply. (which will surly read, 'I am entirely convinced by what you wrote and intend to leave the Mother Church forthwith and become a Reformed Evangelical')
(actually I'm being called for food - catch you around)
warmest regards,

[Teófilo]

I am hitting the road shortly, but I wanted simply to say that this is another thread that connects to the proselytization of Protestants. In light of that, it necessary again to state that the biblical basis of Mariology is extremely weak in terms of the Assumption of Mary and non-existent in terms of the Immaculate Conception of Mary.

Sir, I understand your objections and as you might expect, I have heard them all before. I have studied this inside and outside the Church.

As you also know for sure, I don't feel that is necessary for me to justify every Catholic belief from a Bible verse, not only because I don't see Holy Writ as a mere repository of propositional truth, but also because as a Catholic, I reject--after careful, years of long analysis that took me for a while outside of the Church--the tenet of sola scriptura which btw, it's also unscriptural.

The tenor of the article is what we have always said, though one will be unable to find a biblical verse directly stating a mariological truth, neither will you find one directly undermining one. Mariological truths are Christological ones, deny one, and you undermine the other. The Fathers understood this and it is on their insight and on their knowledge of the received Tradition upon which the Church builds her understanding of the Blessed Virgin.

I also take a dim view to your objection of proselytizing protestants, since many Protestants do not extend a similar courtesy to Catholics. If the field is to be level, Protestants have a right to hear what Catholics have to say when it comes Apostolic Christian truth.

Finally, let me state that in the Communion of Saints there are no Christians separated by the mere accident of physical death. That's what enable us to belong to the same prayer team whether here, or in heaven. That's what the veneration of Mary and all the saints really means.

I ask for your prayers and also ask the Lord to richly bless you, by the prayerful intercession of his Most Holy Mother who, in the Lord, is present to each and everyone of us.

-Theo

[Teófilo]

First of all I would wish to apologize for the curt sound of my post, please accept that It wasn't intended thus.

Hey, you know, the Internet medium is vastly inadequate to express good emotions, friendly gestures, and to communicate good will through typed characters in general. Many times, I've come of as a jerk, which is the furthest thing from my mind. So, don't feel bad.

There is a Protestant reappraisal of Mary; many articles have come out about the subject last year. Protestants, particularly here in the States, hardly know anything about her, and about what the Early Church thought about her. Calvinism--and therefore, the entire Reformed wing of Protestantism--is to blame more for this than Lutheranism, I'm afraid.

Anyway, thank you for your clarification. Merry Christmas to you and yours.

-Theo

[netmilsmom]

>>You do Mary no favors by this idolatry<<

You do yourself no favors by looking this stupid.

[x5452]

It's not idolatry.

[Mr. Lucky]

Do you believe that the Mother of God is pleased by your post?

[Uri’el-2012]

v>>You do Mary no favors by this idolatry<<

You do yourself no favors by looking this stupid.

10 posted on 12/27/2005 12:09:08 PM MST by netmilsmom >

You do not display a very good Christian witness.

Mt. 5:44 But I tell you: Love your enemies [Some late manuscripts
enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those
hate you] and pray for those who persecute you,

b'shem Y'shua

[Jaded]

Were you on yesterday's thread admonishing others to be nice?

[netmilsmom]

>>Do you believe that the Mother of God is pleased by your post?<<

I think that She, like all mothers believe that Her children love Her. I think that She laughes at anyone who makes such a lame statement as this poster.
She probably would scold me for coming back the way I did but that is between me and Her.

[Mr. Lucky]

Then, perhaps, you should keep it between you and Her.

[netmilsmom]

LOL!!!

The kindest that we can be is to point out when people are being ridiculous so that they do not repeat their mistakes.

Calling a Catholic's love of Our Mother idolotry is crass and uncalled for.

And what in the world makes you think that I haven't and do not continue to pray for the people who come onto a thread about Mary and slam the Catholic relationship with her?

Here ya go, I'm praying for you. Truly.

[netmilsmom]

>>Then, perhaps, you should keep it between you and Her.<<

Sorry FRiend, if someone compares my relationship with my Mother with idolotry, I will tell them how silly they are being.

If you don't care to defend your position, that is your right, but I will. My Earthly mother or My Heavenly Mother, all the same to me.

[NYer]

There is one God and one mediator between God and man - that is Jesus Christ.

And no one will challenge you on that. Mary shares in this work by leading people to her Son. You will notice in the icons of the Theotokos, that Mary always points to Jesus.

So why don't catholics and converrts go directly to Jesus? How does Mary fit into the mediatrix position?

One of the best examples of someone being drawn to Christ through Mary is Roy Schoeman. Raised a conservative Jew by devout parents who fled the Holocaust, his hometown rabbi was Arthur Hertzberg, president of the American Jewish Congress. Mr. Schoeman attended MIT and Harvard Business School, graduating among the top students. He became tenured at Harvard.

During the Spring of 1987, he took a few days off and went to Cape Cod to commune with nature. It is there that his life changed forever. As he describes the experience:

"I was walking in the early morning, in the woods just back from the beach, when God intervened, dramatically and distinctly, into my life to pull me back and put me onto the right path.  As I was walking, lost in my thoughts, I found myself in the immediate presence of God.  It is as though I "fell into Heaven."  Everything changed from one moment to the next, but in such a smooth and subtle way that I was not aware of any discontinuity.  I felt myself in the immediate presence of God.  I was aware of His infinite exaltedness, and of His infinite and personal love for me.  I saw my life as though I was looking back on it after death, in His presence, and could see everything which I would be happy about and everything which I would wish I had done differently."

As a Jew, his reaction to this extraordinary grace is not surprising.

"I saw that the meaning and purpose of my life was to worship and serve my Lord and Master, in whose presence I found myself.  I wanted to know His name, so that I could worship Him properly, so that I could follow "His" religion.  I remember silently praying "Tell me your name.  I don't mind if You're Apollo, and I have to become a Roman pagan.  I don't mind if You're Krishna, and I have to become a Hindu.  I don't mind if You're Buddha, and I have to become a Buddhist.  As long as You're not Christ, and I have to become a Christian!"

Mr. Schoeman began praying every night before going to be to know the name of to his Lord, Master, the God he met on the beach that day. But God did not reveal His name.

Exactly one year later, though, after praying his prayer, Mr. Schoeman went to sleep and .... well, I'll let Mr. Schoeman tell you in his own words.

"A year to the day after the initial experience, I went to sleep after saying that prayer, and felt as though I was woken by a gentle hand on my shoulder, and escorted to a room where I was left alone with the most beautiful young woman I could imagine.  I knew without being told that she was the Blessed Virgin Mary.  I felt entirely awake (and my memory is as though I had been awake), although I was dreaming.  I remember my first reaction, standing there awed by her presence and grandeur, was wishing I knew at least the Hail Mary so that I could honor her!  She offered to answer any questions I had.  I remember thinking about what to ask, asking the questions, and her answers.  After speaking to me a while longer, the audience was ended.  When I woke the next morning I was hopelessly in love with the Blessed Virgin Mary, and I knew that the God I had met on the beach was Christ, and, and that all I wanted was to be as much of, and as good a, Christian as possible."

This is the role of Mary, our mother. She leads us to her Son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

You can read the entire text of Roy Schoeman's conversion story here.

Mr. Schoeman still works at Harvard and has written a book entitled "Salvation is from the Jews".

[Mr. Lucky]

Name calling brings no more honour to our heavenly Mother than it would to your earthly mother.