Posted on 02/20/2006 5:33:50 AM PST by ToryHeartland
Your mouth has flapped for hundreds of posts, and NOTHING has come out of it to indicate my claim is incorrect, has it? Were you planning to withdraw your accusation that I'm a meth addict? I'm not.
I'm out of here. These two are wacked. Love for the Jewish people is turned into antisemitism and racism somehow!
Yes I read it. If God wills an action, then by definition it is just. I'm skeptical you'll find many Jews on FR who will say the Holocaust was a just punishment of European Jewry for their sins.
Even others think that it wasn't punishment in the first person, but that these things are allowed to happen because GOD has withdrawn himself as punishment.
It still means they deserved their fate because they sinned.
You do realize that when one links biblical examples of punishment of Jews to modern day examples, one is saying that Jews were righteously dealt with in the Holocaust.
Utter nonsense. You extrapolate way too much.
In biblical examples, Jews sinned and were righteously punished by the will of God. If one says the Holocaust was divine punishment, then the same applies. You simply can't get around the fact that if you invoke divine will, then the sufferers deserved their fate.
BTW, the poster you've been defending was the one who put the Nazi card in play: ever hear of them Nazi furnaces
Now you're just getting nasty.
I think you spoke too soon. It looks like we have a "yes":
U.S. Christians create umbrella organization to lobby for Israel
By Shmuel Rosner, Haaretz Correspondent
WASHINGTON - A new group in the United States, Christians United for Israel, will serve as an umbrella organization for Christian congregations that support Israel, and will lobby for Israel.
Some 400 Christian community leaders met in San Antonio, Texas, two weeks ago to establish the group, which Christians United officials said represents about 30 million Americans.
The organization's main goal is to create a rapid-response network "targeted to reach every senator and congressman" in the United States. It is led by evangelical leaders Dr. John C. Hagee and George Morrison; fundamentalist Baptist minister Jerry Falwell; and Gary Bauer, president of the American Values organization aimed at protecting marriage, family and faith.
All are renowned supporters of Israel, and considered hawkish. For instance, they will pressure the American government to move its embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
Christians United members decided to hold meetings with legislators in Washington for two days in July to tell them about the organization and its platform, and express their support for Israel. They are also planning a large annual event called "A Night to Honor Israel" that will be held in several cities simultaneously.
The event, according to the group, will give American Christians the opportunity to fight anti-Semitism and express "their debt of gratitude to the Jewish people for their contribution to Christianity." The organizers stressed that the events are "non-conversionary."
"We see Christians in the United States as true friends and important supporters on the basis of shared values, and we welcome their efforts to strengthen the ties between Israel and the U.S.," Israeli Ambassador to the United States Danny Ayalon said Wednesday.
Stephen Strang, publisher of Charisma magazine and a founding member of
Christians United, has said he wants the organization to be as strong as the pro-Israel lobby known as AIPAC.
I think you're getting Hitler and Stalin (who studied in a seminary) mixed up. AFAIK, Hitler's ambition was to be an artist.
Teenage ambitions are not exclusive of each other. Hitler wanted to be a priest. He talked with his sister about it when they were growing up together. His biographers are consistent on this subject, including the USArmy psych assessment branch. This isn't an historical controversy; it's pretty well known.
Is that how we show are love for the jewish people? By dredging up a boatload of jew-denigrating biblical quotes, and then claiming that, on account of what the bible says, the jews themselves widely believe themselves to be God's punching bag? With friends like you, who needs enemies?
So, you hypothesize, just as Hitler repeatedly did, that the Nazi's were doing God's work.
Yeah, I did a little checking, you're right. Thanks.
Does Schicklgruber mean "grubber of shekels"?
"What I do not understand is why those of such a faith do not simply choose to ignore science, as they have deemed it irrelevant, rather than to launch a campaign to change the nature of science as if it could be made compatible with their faith. "
Wow. Very impressive 2000+ post thread, now in the Smokey Back Room. But I wonder, are you any closer to getting your questioned answered that was in post #1?
Here are a couple of things I would suggest you consider:
You have bought hook line and sinker the notion called 'the nature of science'. I would suggest you review this article discussing something called the cartesian split. It is quite interesting.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1421661/posts
But, I would also suggest you consider something a bit simpler:
GUTS: the Grand Unified Theory of Sex (or why the T.o.Evolution HAS to be, at least, partly, wrong).
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1316020/posts?page=164#164
I still think the fight in the USA over science and Religion is really about sex and how it is experienced. And I really think the Europe has experienced the ...ahem, history, it has b/c of a LACK of attention to this issue.
LoL!
I'm thinking I need to be like the little kids photographer at the mall:
Give 'em a toy to play with so they'll shut up the crying already!
Thanks for your posting and the links, which I've read with interest.
To be honest, I came to regret posting this article when I saw some of the flaming that erupted, although there has been some worthwhile info and insights as well.
As for the 'Cartesian' split; it is an interesting essay on philosophy, but as some posters on that thread have noted, it doesn't go very far. Insofar as such a 'split' occurred, it did not do so because of a philosophical decision (by Descartes or anyone else), but arose throught the continuing successes of materialistic explanations over supernatural ones: where we previously saw the actions of gods in thunder, earthquakes, and comets, science replaced irrational fears with testable truths. One does not (or at least, should not) lend science credibility as an act of 'faith,' (as some have claimed does happen), but neither can one reasonably deny science its due: its record of success is remarkable. I would not characterise this as buying into the nature of science 'hook, line, and sinker,' but simply as an acknowledgement of science's inconvertible achievements.
Now, if you wish to argue that there is meaningful knowledge and indeed "truth" which is not accessible to science, I would utterly agree with you--and I think you might be surprised by the number of scientists who are of similar mind. But that is not at all the same as attempting to change the proven and successful methodology of science, particularly when there is no agreed methodological alternative that delivers results.
As for your essay on G.U.T.S.; first, the strength of your marriage is certainly laudable, and your courage in writing here is to be commended. I deeply hold, as you do, an unshakeable belief in the sanctity of marriage, and consider my wife and children the greatest blessings which has been bestowed upon me--but this is a matter of faith, not science for me! But I am afraid I do not at all see the bearing your essay has on the scientific validity of ToE
I still think the fight in the USA over science and Religion is really about sex and how it is experienced. And I really think the Europe has experienced the ...ahem, history, it has b/c of a LACK of attention to this issue.
Without wishing to be provocative, I will say that I do get the impression, from some postings (not yours) that some unhealthy obsession with this topic is indeed one of the culprits. Someone (can't recall whom, will try to run the quote down) once defined a Puritain as 'someone who was desperately worried that somewhere, someone was enjoying himself.'
As for the 'history' experienced by Europe: far, far too much European history is in fact the history of religious wars of intolerance, and it rumbles on and on. Belatedly, we are finally, in the UK, taking measures against mullahs who have openly preached murder, as they are the current threat, but one cannot really find a period in the last 1000 years where Europe has not been filled with hatred wearing the mask of religion. That does not at all undermine my own Christian faith, which is perfectly robust, but it does give me meaningful challenges in how I live my faith.
Thanks again for your posting, a thought-provoking one amidst a lot of smoke and dust!
You develop a thick skin real quick from these threads. The flaming is painfully regular and predictable.
I hope there was SOME Light and Heat as well! ;^)
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