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Churches urged to back evolution
British Broadcasting Corporation ^ | 20 February 2006 | Paul Rincon

Posted on 02/20/2006 5:33:50 AM PST by ToryHeartland

Churches urged to back evolution By Paul Rincon BBC News science reporter, St Louis

US scientists have called on mainstream religious communities to help them fight policies that undermine the teaching of evolution.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) hit out at the "intelligent design" movement at its annual meeting in Missouri.

Teaching the idea threatens scientific literacy among schoolchildren, it said.

Its proponents argue life on Earth is too complex to have evolved on its own.

As the name suggests, intelligent design is a concept invoking the hand of a designer in nature.

It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other Gilbert Omenn AAAS president

There have been several attempts across the US by anti-evolutionists to get intelligent design taught in school science lessons.

At the meeting in St Louis, the AAAS issued a statement strongly condemning the moves.

"Such veiled attempts to wedge religion - actually just one kind of religion - into science classrooms is a disservice to students, parents, teachers and tax payers," said AAAS president Gilbert Omenn.

"It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other.

"They can and do co-exist in the context of most people's lives. Just not in science classrooms, lest we confuse our children."

'Who's kidding whom?'

Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education, which campaigns to keep evolution in public schools, said those in mainstream religious communities needed to "step up to the plate" in order to prevent the issue being viewed as a battle between science and religion.

Some have already heeded the warning.

"The intelligent design movement belittles evolution. It makes God a designer - an engineer," said George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory.

"Intelligent design concentrates on a designer who they do not really identify - but who's kidding whom?"

Last year, a federal judge ruled in favour of 11 parents in Dover, Pennsylvania, who argued that Darwinian evolution must be taught as fact.

Dover school administrators had pushed for intelligent design to be inserted into science teaching. But the judge ruled this violated the constitution, which sets out a clear separation between religion and state.

Despite the ruling, more challenges are on the way.

Fourteen US states are considering bills that scientists say would restrict the teaching of evolution.

These include a legislative bill in Missouri which seeks to ensure that only science which can be proven by experiment is taught in schools.

I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design Teacher Mark Gihring "The new strategy is to teach intelligent design without calling it intelligent design," biologist Kenneth Miller, of Brown University in Rhode Island, told the BBC News website.

Dr Miller, an expert witness in the Dover School case, added: "The advocates of intelligent design and creationism have tried to repackage their criticisms, saying they want to teach the evidence for evolution and the evidence against evolution."

However, Mark Gihring, a teacher from Missouri sympathetic to intelligent design, told the BBC: "I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design.

"[Intelligent design] ultimately takes us back to why we're here and the value of life... if an individual doesn't have a reason for being, they might carry themselves in a way that is ultimately destructive for society."

Economic risk

The decentralised US education system ensures that intelligent design will remain an issue in the classroom regardless of the decision in the Dover case.

"I think as a legal strategy, intelligent design is dead. That does not mean intelligent design as a social movement is dead," said Ms Scott.

"This is an idea that has real legs and it's going to be around for a long time. It will, however, evolve."

Among the most high-profile champions of intelligent design is US President George W Bush, who has said schools should make students aware of the concept.

But Mr Omenn warned that teaching intelligent design will deprive students of a proper education, ultimately harming the US economy.

"At a time when fewer US students are heading into science, baby boomer scientists are retiring in growing numbers and international students are returning home to work, America can ill afford the time and tax-payer dollars debating the facts of evolution," he said. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4731360.stm

Published: 2006/02/20 10:54:16 GMT

© BBC MMVI


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: bearingfalsewitness; crevolist; darwin; evolution; freeperclaimstobegod; goddooditamen; godknowsthatiderslie; idoogabooga; ignoranceisstrength; intelligentdesign; liarsforthelord; ludditesimpletons; monkeygod; scienceeducation; soupmyth; superstitiousnuts; youngearthcultists
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

"When does the animal become human?"

It is convenient for evolutionist to promote the acceptance of the term "human animal". We refer to sex as male and female instead of woman and man. I do not accept that we are animal. We are human. Created in the image and likeness of God. Adam named the animals. God named Adam.


651 posted on 02/20/2006 6:02:43 PM PST by Jo Nuvark ((Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3))
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To: whattajoke

See those all the time. Newbies come on, dump their "one big load," never to return and actually "debate."

I don't think they're ever prepared for the response they get.


652 posted on 02/20/2006 6:04:19 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Evolution is simply not science.

Unsubstantiated claims are always fun.

There is not a shred of evidence that supports the queer notion of life out of nothing,

Which is why evolution does not make such claims...

More importantly, God's inerrant word clearly states that evolution did not happen, and the two are mutually exclusive.

Scriptural reference?

653 posted on 02/20/2006 6:04:48 PM PST by hail to the chief (Use your conservatism liberally)
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To: shuckmaster; Oztrich Boy
//It obviously takes more than constant badgering of the mods by a bunch of lying snitching whiny crybaby losers to get someone who knows his subject banned//

You know have a point point there shuckmaster. You and Oztrich there have put up some pretty vile stuff. Sometimes your crap has a racist white supremacist taint to it, and you are still here.

I dont even claim to be a Christian and I have more respect for the core values of our Nation than you do.

However if I just bounce your own text back to you 50% worth, I know what the result would be and it will be fast too.

Where I come from, desecrating religious symbology, Christian symbology was something punks did, and if they still did it in adulthood something was serious wrong with that individual.

What you have done here in the recent past (some of it now deleted) is a digital desecration of religious symbology, Christian symbology. I still say what you do is a thing PUNKS DO. You are a pathetic representation of America

Wolf
654 posted on 02/20/2006 6:05:04 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: Jo Nuvark
In their their minds 'they are the god' therefore you can prove nothing to them.

Wolf
655 posted on 02/20/2006 6:06:08 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: Dimensio

[...I know of no rational biologist who would suggest that the placement of homo sapiens in kingdom Animalia in any way excuses or justifies any kind of behaviour...]

So, are you going to take that Python to court for swallowing that human child?


656 posted on 02/20/2006 6:06:37 PM PST by Jo Nuvark ((Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3))
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To: editor-surveyor; Alamo-Girl

You've seen his original work? I would've thought it would've been destroyed in the Deluge. The thread in question was posted by Alamo-Girl, who no one would class as "New Age."


657 posted on 02/20/2006 6:06:38 PM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: editor-surveyor
Evolution is simply not science. There is not a shred of evidence that supports the queer notion of life out of nothing, and the fossil/geologic evidence clearly concurrs with the biblical description of the flood.

new thread, clean slate, every thing you've been shown prior doesn't exist. You people are truly unbelievable.
658 posted on 02/20/2006 6:06:46 PM PST by whattajoke
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To: Elsie

Or misquoted or misunderstood.


659 posted on 02/20/2006 6:09:17 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: bondserv
An attempt at denying God is making fools of our scientists.

No one is attempting to deny God. This is a standard CIDer canard and strawman. Science is silent on God and attempts to explain how things work and why they work. Science depends on non-supernatural explanations.

Science is entertaining and occasionally helpful.

Remember that next time you drive a car or fly. Or use the bathroom. Or plug in your computer.

The same scienific process that has come to the conclusions of TTOE is the one that came up with electricity, aerodynamics, physics, advanced mathematics, etc.

YOUR analogy falls apart faster, since you ignore all the facts at hand. The same guys on an island are responsible for the very real science that imbues our lives as for TTOE.

660 posted on 02/20/2006 6:10:59 PM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: Jo Nuvark
"It is convenient for evolutionist to promote the acceptance of the term "human animal"."

It also has the virtue of being true!

" We refer to sex as male and female instead of woman and man."

Because that is more accurate, especially when dealing with nonhuman animals. :)

"We are human."

Agreed. Creationist and evolutionist coming together in agreement. :)

"Created in the image and likeness of God."

Does God have a hairy chest? Blond hair? Black hair? Does he have pimples or freckles?
661 posted on 02/20/2006 6:12:24 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: presently no screen name

I'm very curious now. You have claimed that humans are not animals. Please tell me (and the world) what we are instead. You only have a few choices.

Then you prattled on to say, "are you house trained or do you just run wild, as in your thinking." So I'm "wild" for thinking that humans are animals?

you are a fascinating lot.


662 posted on 02/20/2006 6:12:55 PM PST by whattajoke
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To: manwiththehands
Evo's don't believe in science. Why would we want to go there?

Huh?

663 posted on 02/20/2006 6:13:02 PM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: RunningWolf

[...'they are the god' ...]

It's about truth and sowing seeds.
Don't stop. Be vigilant. Stand firm.


664 posted on 02/20/2006 6:14:13 PM PST by Jo Nuvark ((Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3))
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To: freedumb2003

"Are you a historian and writer by profession?"

No.
But I've been told I should be.

For my own edification, to which post were you referring?

(Oh, and please, who is/was Jethro Bodine? Was he Jedd's son?)


665 posted on 02/20/2006 6:15:16 PM PST by Vicomte13 (La Reine est gracieuse, mais elle n'est pas gratuit.)
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To: Jo Nuvark
Job 12:7-8 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: God's hand is the life and breath of every living thing.

Has the bible figured out that bats aren't birds by this point?
666 posted on 02/20/2006 6:17:17 PM PST by whattajoke
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To: ToryHeartland

I notice that only creationists are welcoming you here.

Is it because they're nicer people, or is it because they want to let everyone else on the thread know you are a newbie, and therefore, not to be trusted?

You decide.


667 posted on 02/20/2006 6:18:12 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: ToryHeartland
re: explanations of the real issue here would be appreciated!)))

Welcome to FR.

The real issues are turf, egos, status, money, academic tenure and franchise--

The real issue is a way for the left to "pretend" a great alarm at the attack on the Temple of Science to try to make the GOP alienate a formidable constituency--the religious right. The Democrats would just love to chip off enough votes to turn the majority to the left.

It is important to pay attn to a character named Soros--who finances a lot of leftist filmmaking. The guy who made SuperSize Me is in process of making "The Republican War on Science".

There are those here on FR trying to help Soros in his endeavor. Many pretend to be conservatives.

668 posted on 02/20/2006 6:19:39 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Elsie

But most of us are not so bold to go back and repeat our lies and then deny having ever heard of the person we are lying about when our lies are preserved on a public forum.


669 posted on 02/20/2006 6:19:58 PM PST by hail to the chief (Use your conservatism liberally)
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To: jwalsh07; Right Wing Professor

I'm a bigot as well. I won't hire an electrician who thinks electricity is the result of white magic.


670 posted on 02/20/2006 6:20:37 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: Jo Nuvark
I can prove God exists with every breath I take. "I am" witness to God's existence.

That's neat. Ok, let me try to "prove evolution exists" as you asked... Ahem... I can prove evolution exists with every breath I take. "I am" witness to evolution's existence.

How'd I do?
671 posted on 02/20/2006 6:20:58 PM PST by whattajoke
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To: Vicomte13

Post 510 was the one I was applauding.

Jetho Bodine was Jed Clampett's nephew and the intellectual of the family on account he "got an 8th grade education!"


672 posted on 02/20/2006 6:21:14 PM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: Dimensio; RunningWolf; CarolinaGuitarman; All

[...Does God have a hairy chest? Blond hair?
Black hair? Does he have pimples or freckles?...]

Isn't that just like man to imagine God in relationship to who we are?
Isn't that just like God to imagine us in relationship to who He is?

I have enjoyed this immensely, but I must go. Hope to speak with you again soon. May God bring you comfort and pour His favor upon you as you contemplate His power and majesty in your life.


673 posted on 02/20/2006 6:21:41 PM PST by Jo Nuvark ((Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3))
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To: Jo Nuvark
I can prove God exists with every breath I take.

While I'll concede that Police song is pretty good, I'm not sure it's that good.
674 posted on 02/20/2006 6:22:05 PM PST by whattajoke
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To: ToryHeartland
Welcome ToryHeartland

Thanks for the article

I applaud your fortitude

Wolf
675 posted on 02/20/2006 6:22:12 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: editor-surveyor
"Evolution is simply not science.

"There is not a shred of evidence that supports the queer notion of life out of nothing, and the fossil/geologic evidence clearly concurrs with the biblical description of the flood. More importantly, God's inerrant word clearly states that evolution did not happen, and the two are mutually exclusive.

Life out of nothing? How about life out of pre-life. How about life out of self-replicating chemicals. How about life out of anything but nothing.

The global flood has been disproved so many times as to be funny. Only the most biased, closed minded person would insist that the scientific evidence supports a global flood. (didn't I sound just like a creationist there?)

If you want to claim the Bible inerrant then go ahead and claim existence is based on miracles, but don't try to make creationism a science, it doesn't work and its feeble attempts to make the data fit the Bible are simply hilarious.

I find it interesting that creationists are not willing to accept abiogenesis (which would follow known physical laws), but are willing to not only accept, but base their living philosophy on, magic.

676 posted on 02/20/2006 6:23:08 PM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: Jo Nuvark
I can prove God exists with every breath I take. "I am" witness to God's existence.

And yet, ironically (unless you're truly kooky), if you get an infection of your lungs, affecting those very breaths you take, you'll rely on medicine and the antibiotics we've developed and continue to tweak in the face of evolution to be cured.
677 posted on 02/20/2006 6:23:41 PM PST by whattajoke
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To: whattajoke

Now you've gone and done it. What a revolting development this is.

Pretty soon you'll be proving pond scum is the Creator or the pink unicorns on the moon dumped us here.


678 posted on 02/20/2006 6:23:56 PM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: stands2reason

I didn't realise that ToryHeartland was new here. I'm a bit oblivious like that. I recognize people who post often, but I never really make assumptions with unfamiliar names as to whether they're new or I've just overlooked their postings in the past.


679 posted on 02/20/2006 6:24:21 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Jo Nuvark
So, are you going to take that Python to court for swallowing that human child?

No. Non-sequitur.
680 posted on 02/20/2006 6:25:31 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: stands2reason

Science is limited. Accept it.

Of course it's limited BUT God isn't.


681 posted on 02/20/2006 6:26:11 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: CarolinaGuitarman; Jo Nuvark
"Does God have a hairy chest? Blond hair? Black hair? Does he have pimples or freckles?"

Let's branch off from that question:

Jesus was born to a woman who was descended from King David. We know from his description that David was a fair-skined redhead, and thus there is some reasonable chance that Jesus could have had freckles! :o)

682 posted on 02/20/2006 6:26:11 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Atheist and Fool are synonyms; Evolution is where fools hide from the sunrise)
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To: Jo Nuvark
I do not accept that we are animal.

Vegetable? Fungus? Monera?
683 posted on 02/20/2006 6:26:14 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: whattajoke

Sometimes responding to the Spirit of words shows more intellect.


684 posted on 02/20/2006 6:27:02 PM PST by Jo Nuvark ((Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3))
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To: Dimensio

Can you demonstrate this?


Can you get a clue?


685 posted on 02/20/2006 6:27:16 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: shuckmaster; Oztrich Boy

You're being baited by an obvious troll. Just let it go.


686 posted on 02/20/2006 6:28:17 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: Dimensio

Instead of cracking a textbook, open up the Bible.

Right in the beginning, you will find the answer.


687 posted on 02/20/2006 6:29:58 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name
Can you get a clue?

If you are unable to substantiate your assertions, just say so. There's no reason to respond to requests for evidence with insults.
688 posted on 02/20/2006 6:30:31 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: LiteKeeper
It is interesting to me that evolutionists refuse to deal with the origin of information

It's a different field of science. Little pink fairies could have put down the first cells on Earth and it wouldn't affect the ToE. Perhaps if "abiogenesis" was as loaded a term as "Darwinism" it wouldn't concern you as much.

689 posted on 02/20/2006 6:30:34 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: Jo Nuvark
"Isn't that just like man to imagine God in relationship to who we are? "

I was just asking a question. You said that we were made in his image; I was curious as to exactly that image was. If that is a forbidden question, I apologize.

"I have enjoyed this immensely, but I must go."

I know the feeling; have a good one!
690 posted on 02/20/2006 6:30:54 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: presently no screen name
Instead of cracking a textbook, open up the Bible.

Taxonomic classifications are based upon physical characteristics of organisms, not the claims of any particular religious text.

If humans are not animals, are they plants, fungus or monera? How do you justify claiming that the current taxonomic classification, accepted by all biologists, is wrong?
691 posted on 02/20/2006 6:31:40 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: PatrickHenry
No its real as day they know it even if you don't.

And if you do, I doubt you will ever admit it.

Wolf
692 posted on 02/20/2006 6:31:49 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: MamaTexan

"While creationism doesn't necessarily exclude evolution, evolution DOES exclude creationism."

That's not true. There are many scientists who believe in evolution, but also believe that at the very beginning there was a creative religious source. Not all scientists who believe in evolution are atheists, or even agnostics. Evolution does NOT exclude creationism unless you make up a definition of evolution that fits your preconceived notions of it. Evolution and creationism are not mutually exclusive concepts.

You can try to negate the concept of evolution as hard as you can and you would still be ignoring the fact that evidence of evolution is all around us, and has been proven by scientific hypothesis, experimentation, analysis, testing, proofs, and peer review. Do you disagree that we have the vestiges of gills and a tail in our genetic build? Where did that come from? Do you deny that humans adapt to their climates in evolutionary ways? The melatonin of blacks, the slitted eyes of Eskimoes? That there once were Neanderthals? That there were dinosaurs that are probably today's birds?

And none of that denies the existence of an original creator of the world we live in, and indeed, of the entire universe. And that creator is God who allowed for the evolution that took place. But if you "teach" that in a science course, the "lesson" would be over in about 1/2 day or less. Because about all you can say is that at the beginning of the evolutionary process, there could be the hand of God and God's intelligent design. And that the beauty and symmetry of our world is a proof of that possibility. Now, anyone who is religious and practices their religion and teaches their children about religious beliefs, knows that already. That's about it. Then it's back to teaching evolution in the classroom again, as what else can you say about creationism that wouldn't then veer into the realm of religious philosophy and belief as versus the study of analytic scientific discovery.


693 posted on 02/20/2006 6:32:41 PM PST by flaglady47
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To: nmh
There is aboslutely NO evidence to support evolution.

That's a false statement, and you know it.

The worst thing is, you will never stop saying it, and when called a liar, you'll run weeping to the mods. How pitiful.

694 posted on 02/20/2006 6:33:17 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: Mamzelle

#####It is important to pay attn to a character named Soros--who finances a lot of leftist filmmaking. The guy who made SuperSize Me is in process of making "The Republican War on Science".#####


That'll be the Michael Moorish propaganda film of the year. It'll get a lavish build-up from the New York Times, that's for sure.


695 posted on 02/20/2006 6:33:23 PM PST by puroresu (Conservatism is an observation; Liberalism is an ideology)
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To: freedumb2003

Granny was my favorite.


696 posted on 02/20/2006 6:33:47 PM PST by Vicomte13 (La Reine est gracieuse, mais elle n'est pas gratuit.)
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To: stands2reason

accept evolution


Not sure what you mean. What are you accepting about the theory of evolution.


697 posted on 02/20/2006 6:34:35 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

Recommendation letters are not an entitlement.


698 posted on 02/20/2006 6:34:37 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: freedumb2003; ToryHeartland
Our Declaration of Independence contradicts the core beliefs of Evolutionists. It is hard to call on a Source superior to all men, when that superior Source is not a definer of rights. Anything else leaves us with, "He with the biggest guns makes the rules", completely disarming freedom. A theistic evolutionist strips the superior Source of His personal attention to individuals in His creation.

No one is attempting to deny God. This is a standard CIDer canard and strawman. Science is silent on God and attempts to explain how things work and why they work. Science depends on non-supernatural explanations.

Then you have no problem with alternate common sense explanations explaining life. Again your interpretation of the facts is the limited one. Science by definition should not be limited when such a large number of credible scientists wish to weigh in.

Remember that next time you drive a car or fly. Or use the bathroom. Or plug in your computer.

I am sure you will acknowledge that none of these "discoveries" demonstrates a speck of superiority. Having a cell phone with iTunes on it doesn't add a whit to a person's character. In fact it is an easy case to make that a person who has indulged in higher education exhibits stunted character growth.

Salvation through knowledge is beginning to fall on deaf ears as people begin to recognize the agenda of the materialists who, by definition, are forced to deny unalienable rights. The evidence of a superior intelligence contributing to the lives of His creatures is trumping the Naturalistic Only dogma!

699 posted on 02/20/2006 6:34:39 PM PST by bondserv (God governs our universe and has seen fit to offer us a pardon. )
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To: whattajoke

666 AND 700. It's a good night for me.


700 posted on 02/20/2006 6:34:52 PM PST by whattajoke
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