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Churches urged to back evolution
British Broadcasting Corporation ^ | 20 February 2006 | Paul Rincon

Posted on 02/20/2006 5:33:50 AM PST by ToryHeartland

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To: vimto
when I die I will go to Heaven and meet with my God. You may say I have a problem with evolution. Maybe. Your problem is considerably greater.

Unless God then asked you why you wasted the brain he gave you; ignoring the the wonder of evolution that he created and set out for you to discovery in favor of near idolatry of a book written by men. Then your problem is probably greater.

551 posted on 02/20/2006 3:42:25 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: Jo Nuvark
Yes, the definition of 'oath' is fine and all.

But we're asking about the word, "affirm".

Using that site you linked to, the definition is,

af·firm (ə-fûrm')
v., -firmed, -firm·ing, -firms.
v.tr.
1. To declare positively or firmly; maintain to be true.
2. To support or uphold the validity of; confirm.

v.intr. Law.
To declare solemnly and formally but not under oath.

In fact, this is the exact same definition as the other links.

Nowhere in there does it say anything about 'affirm' means to take an oath . . .

552 posted on 02/20/2006 3:42:39 PM PST by Dominic Harr
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To: Elsie
No kids yet; eh?

Three of them.

553 posted on 02/20/2006 3:43:37 PM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: ToryHeartland

You won't understand this . . . but . . . you can't understand this.


554 posted on 02/20/2006 3:43:41 PM PST by RightWinger
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To: My2Cents
Because many in the scientific community are afraid of thinking outside the box; and many are deathly afraid that there is, indeed, an *Intelligent Designer.*

This line of argument never made any sense. If a person is an atheist, then that have no fear, let alone a deathly one, of God, because they believe his no more real than Cap't Crunch or Darth Vader. The atheist believes God is fictitious. Are you afraid of Mighty Mouse or Scarlett O'Hara? Why then would you believe the atheist has a deathly fear of God?

555 posted on 02/20/2006 3:47:00 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: Junior
The Hindu Vedas predate the first written accounts of the Bible by centuries; that should mean they're more bona fide than Scripture.

Actually, have you seen the new evidence suggesting that the 'Rig Veda' flood story may actually refer to the flooding from the end of the last ice age, ~9000 years ago?

"Underworld" is a fascinating book . . .

556 posted on 02/20/2006 3:48:59 PM PST by Dominic Harr
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To: Dominic Harr

Author, please. You can't dangle something like that out in front of me and not give me the details, or at least the background.


557 posted on 02/20/2006 3:51:01 PM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: WildHorseCrash
Here's another passage for ya:


In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space—the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon.

Job 26:7

[7] He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

So true! No amount of nitpicking will change that either.

By 150 B.C., the Greek astronomer Eratosthenes had already measured the 25,000-mile circumference of the earth. The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus.
558 posted on 02/20/2006 3:51:19 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: Dimensio

Maybe the fella in question wanted an affirmation because he thought an anti-evolutionist might lie. Perish the thought! :-D


559 posted on 02/20/2006 3:51:55 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: WildHorseCrash

But you still have doubts...


560 posted on 02/20/2006 3:56:50 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: joseph20

According to certain interpretations of the Bible nothing died prior to Adam's sin. That means every fruit or veggie that Adam and Eve picked and ate STAYED ALIVE even after being digested.

I am not making this up.


561 posted on 02/20/2006 4:00:34 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: ToryHeartland; Aetius; Alamo-Girl; AndrewC; Asphalt; Aussie Dasher; Baraonda; BereanBrain; ...
Evolution is simply not science.

There is not a shred of evidence that supports the queer notion of life out of nothing, and the fossil/geologic evidence clearly concurrs with the biblical description of the flood. More importantly, God's inerrant word clearly states that evolution did not happen, and the two are mutually exclusive.

562 posted on 02/20/2006 4:01:12 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Atheist and Fool are synonyms; Evolution is where fools hide from the sunrise)
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To: jwalsh07
Not really. The Catholic sect of Christianity is the largest in America by a fair amount.

Sure, if you view things in the "Protestant manner," (i.e., Baptist v. Calvinist v. Catholic v. Anglican v. Lutheran... etc., etc.) But if you view it in the "Catholic manner," (i.e., Catholic v. Protestants), then original post is correct, and Catholics are in the minority.

563 posted on 02/20/2006 4:01:42 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: Dominic Harr

In the Jo Nuvark dictionary "affirm" means to bear witness as in agree with what has been attested.


564 posted on 02/20/2006 4:02:35 PM PST by Jo Nuvark ((Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3))
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To: Junior
Graham Hancock.

It's a very excellent book, I'm amazed at the amount of research, evidence, etc he has in there. And he's very carful not to claim, "it's proven!"

Underworld

I'm only 1/2 way thru the book. It's all about the melting at the end of the last ice age.

Right now I'm reading about India -- specifically, "Kumari Kandam", an 'atlantis' type lost civilization that was suppose to be south of India. And Hancock got maps of what the sea levels were 12000 to 9000 years ago, and sure enough, Sri Lanka was once connected, and they've already found ruins under the sea.

I'm a big fan of this kind of stuff, and I'm amazed I've never heard of it before.

565 posted on 02/20/2006 4:03:13 PM PST by Dominic Harr
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To: editor-surveyor

It is interesting to me that evolutionists refuse to deal with the origin of information - and how new information required for the blueprints of life comes into existence. Even Richard Dawkins has absolutely no answer to these questions!


566 posted on 02/20/2006 4:04:12 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America)
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To: stands2reason

My stance is that this could be a symbolical story, and what is meant by death is actually spiritual death.

Your little "I am not making this up" quip is not well-received by me. The Protestants may be wrong on this one, but they are still much closer to the truth than you are.


567 posted on 02/20/2006 4:06:01 PM PST by joseph20
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To: Jo Nuvark
In the Jo Nuvark dictionary "affirm" means to bear witness as in agree with what has been attested.

:-D

I see.

Well, I'm having a hard time finding that anywhere else, I'm afraid.

So until I do, it'll remain that the definition of 'affirm' is to assert an affirmative, as all the dictionaries seem to say.

568 posted on 02/20/2006 4:06:30 PM PST by Dominic Harr
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To: zeeba neighba; Elsie; ToryHeartland

It's important, not only for the sake of obediance to the Lord, but also for the protection of true, objective, honest science that we resist the evolution propagandists who are destroying science, and morality, rapidly.


569 posted on 02/20/2006 4:06:36 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Atheist and Fool are synonyms; Evolution is where fools hide from the sunrise)
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To: All
G'nite, all, and thanks for a lively discussion!

I'll see ya'll in the morning.

570 posted on 02/20/2006 4:08:20 PM PST by Dominic Harr
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To: LiteKeeper
"Even Richard Dawkins has absolutely no answer to these questions!"

Especially Dawkins has no answers, since he depends on solely his own desires for answers.

571 posted on 02/20/2006 4:08:29 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Atheist and Fool are synonyms; Evolution is where fools hide from the sunrise)
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To: joseph20

Not all Protestants are the same, dude. So don't paint them all the same color.

You have faith in a book written by men --you are welcome to that belief. You don't know squat about what I believe so don't pretend you do so.


572 posted on 02/20/2006 4:13:04 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: editor-surveyor

Evolution is simply not science.

There is not a shred of evidence that supports the queer notion of life out of nothing, and the fossil/geologic evidence clearly concurrs with the biblical description of the flood. More importantly, God's inerrant word clearly states that evolution did not happen, and the two are mutually exclusive.




Absolutely correct!

There is aboslutely NO evidence to support evolution.

Evolution defies mere human logic.

Life does not evolve from nothing.

But hey, people can believe that pigs fly too and argue over that.


573 posted on 02/20/2006 4:14:15 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: Right Wing Professor

If you choose to hold those that need recommendation letters hostage, so be it. It only shows what you are about - the need to control.

What's down goes up and what's up goes down. That includes students and professors. One day you may meet them and they just may repay the compliment. Life has ways of teaching those that are unteachable. What you sow, you reap.

It's probably the monkey brain doctors that are getting sued and/or loose their license. Although, there are many many good doctors. One being the highly acclaimed and sought after, Don Colbert, M.D.


574 posted on 02/20/2006 4:16:17 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: hail to the chief
C1, C13 and D2 all in one shot.

BINGO!

575 posted on 02/20/2006 4:16:49 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: Dominic Harr

From the sketchy research I've done on the Rig Veda, internal clues point to it being written in the Bronze Age (NLT 1200 BCE) in India. Other clues make the earliest it could possibly have been written about 1500 BCE.


576 posted on 02/20/2006 4:17:25 PM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: stands2reason

Take your Bible-bashing elsewhere. You are not welcome.


577 posted on 02/20/2006 4:18:17 PM PST by joseph20
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To: nmh

"Life does not evolve from nothing."

Luckily, scientists have not said it does. :)


578 posted on 02/20/2006 4:18:32 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: The_Victor

The existence of the world doesn't prove God's presence


God's presence where?


579 posted on 02/20/2006 4:19:51 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: joseph20

So you are God, and any disagreement with you is Bible Bashing?


580 posted on 02/20/2006 4:20:19 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: When_Penguins_Attack

Religion need not be specifically theistic to be religion.


581 posted on 02/20/2006 4:23:36 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: nmh

The Bhagavad Gita is Hindu sacred texts. I was making the point that one should not be surprised that atheists promote ideas that aren't in keeping with Christianity any more than one should be surprised that a Protestant promotes ideas that aren't in keeping with Hinduism.


582 posted on 02/20/2006 4:23:39 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: Junior
The Hindu Vedas predate the first written accounts of the Bible by centuries; that should mean they're more bona fide than Scripture.

I wonder why all copies weren't lost in Noah's flood?

583 posted on 02/20/2006 4:24:44 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: DoctorMichael
So, you are saying that we believe that God created us, that we are liars? Baloney. And I am not an useful idiot. My IQ is very high, thank you. I know what it is because as a high school student, I worked in the office and I looked to see what it was. I guess you could say I was sneaky.

I will go to whatever thread interest's me.

584 posted on 02/20/2006 4:26:20 PM PST by MamaB (mom to an Angel)
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To: Right Wing Professor

What I want to know is, when exactly did a letter of recommendation become an entitlement?

I bet it was right after I graduated... (grumble grumble)


585 posted on 02/20/2006 4:28:29 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: presently no screen name

Science is limited. Accept it.


586 posted on 02/20/2006 4:30:08 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: Junior

I believe the first written texts and alphabet were found at Ur of the Chaldeas. So it is possible that Moses wrote the Pentateuch.

FROM KARL RANDOLPH: Let’s go back to archeology: unless the reports I heard were wrong, the tablets at Ebla mentioned that there were two cities named Ur, one was Ur of the Sumerians and the other Ur of the Chaldeas. Two, the Bible (the only ancient document that records Abraham’s existance) states that he came from Ur of the Chaldeas. The conclusion I draw is that the Bible’s claim rules out that Abraham was from Sumeria.

So there were a lot of Semites who intermingled with the Sumerians? That doesn’t change the above equation, unless you can show that Ur of the Sumerians and Ur of the Chaldeas were one and the same city. Then how do you explain the Ebla reference? Karl W. Randolph. http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/2005-May/023497.html

First Alphabet Found in Egypt Volume 53 Number 1, January/February 2000 by Elizabeth J. Himelfarb

Along an ancient road in Egypt's western desert at the Wadi el Hol (Gulch of Terror), Yale archaeologists John and Deborah Darnell have discovered two inscriptions representing the earliest-known phonetic alphabet. The script, which incorporates elements of earlier hieroglyphs and later Semitic characters, was carved into a natural limestone wall alongside hundreds of Egyptian inscriptions about 4,000 years ago.

Although a few glyphs look familiar to readers of semitic languages and ancient Egyptian, the alphabet has not yet been deciphered. "Within a couple seconds you realize it's pretty odd-looking," says John Darnell. http://www.archaeology.org/0001/newsbriefs/egypt.html

THE FOUR VEDAS... together represent ancient Hindu thought at its most beautiful and esoteric and belong to the period 1500 - 1000 BC. wwww.indiaheritage.com/religion/hindu/vedas.htm

VEDAS not old enough.


587 posted on 02/20/2006 4:30:31 PM PST by Jo Nuvark ((Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3))
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To: WildHorseCrash
"The Bhagavad Gita is Hindu sacred texts. I was making the point that one should not be surprised that atheists promote ideas that aren't in keeping with Christianity any more than one should be surprised that a Protestant promotes ideas that aren't in keeping with Hinduism."

Circular nonsensical logic is no excuse for ignoring the Bible was quite clear that the earth is round, oblong or whatever you want to label it.
588 posted on 02/20/2006 4:31:12 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: JamesP81

Separate sheep from goats


589 posted on 02/20/2006 4:32:24 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck
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To: nmh
Surely you must admit that even the Bible NEVER claimed it was FLAT.

Actually, the bible, taken as a whole, is consistent with a flat-earth cosmology. This should be of no surprise, as this was the cosmology common in the Middle East at the time its authors wrote it. It is unsurprising that they had beliefs similar to their contemporaries and expressed that in their writings.

The Bible's references to the earth's four corners, its "foundations", about a tree so high that it could be seen from the furthest reaches of the Earth, a mountain so high that the ends of the earth could be seen by someone on the mountain, that the earth is fixed and immovable, that the heavens are a "vault" etc. are totally consistent with a flat earth cosmology. On the whole, they are inconsistent, without a great deal of interpretation and apologetics, with anything approaching the modern understanding.

Makes you wonder what they were reading when Galileo shocked them with the fact the earth was NOT flat.

Galileo's issue was professing belief in a heliocentric solar system, not a Earth roughly spherical in shape.

590 posted on 02/20/2006 4:32:59 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: MamaTexan
So the scientists' guessing about what actually happened is more viable than the creationist guessing that God did it?

There is plenty of proof that meets scientific rigor of TTOE. Physical, empirical, observable proof. Or are the Red Shift, string theory, alterations to the Theory of Gravity which, surprise, is NOT what you see as a layperson, all scientists "guessing?"

Sorry, I still think both sides need to be presented, just not necessarily in the same class.

I have already said that religion can and should be taught in public school as theology or philosophy.

Knowledge can only grow when concepts are freely exchanged and discussed.

Allowing only ONE point of view is abhorrent to a People whose entire country is built around the ideals of Freedom

Agreed, so long as the topic at hand is subject to "viewpoints." Viewpoints about string theory may be subject to debate, but that debate is amongst scientists with the proper background and knowledge. Pastry Chefs (for example) with no scientific knowledge are not qualified to present a "viewpoint" on string theory even if they hold an opinion on it.

Evolution belongs with science, Creation with theology.

I think you are more in agreement than not with me.

591 posted on 02/20/2006 4:33:40 PM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: nmh
I serve a living, compassionate God whose desire is that NONE should perish but all have ETERNAL life.....your comment is sick! Are you sure you trust in Jesus Christ as Savior? don't think He would have responded in that way!!

Your best bet is to ignore these fallible mortals as I do and believe what God states.

592 posted on 02/20/2006 4:33:58 PM PST by pollywog (Psalm 121;1 I Lift my eyes to the hills from whence cometh my help.)
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To: Elsie
But you still have doubts...

Doubts? No. As an agnostic, I know for a fact that the question is unanswerable. So I don't worry about it.

593 posted on 02/20/2006 4:35:17 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: editor-surveyor

No argument here.


594 posted on 02/20/2006 4:37:47 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: nmh
Your nonsensical statment is irrelevant to the fact that you were called on your rather childish statement expressing amazement that atheists would promote ideas that do not mimic your religious texts.

(Also, you really should correct that gaping ignorance of yours. It does the conservative movement no good when conservatives display ignorance of an elementary fact of the world, such as the identity of the Bhagavad Gita.)

595 posted on 02/20/2006 4:42:59 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: Vicomte13

A truly splendid post! Thank you.


596 posted on 02/20/2006 4:45:08 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: WildHorseCrash

The Bible's references to the earth's four corners, its "foundations", about a tree so high that it could be seen from the furthest reaches of the Earth, a mountain so high that the ends of the earth could be seen by someone on the mountain, that the earth is fixed and immovable, that the heavens are a "vault" etc. are totally consistent with a flat earth cosmology.

BOOK AND VERSE PLEASE.
The Bible has proven conjecture to be fact more often than the reverse.


597 posted on 02/20/2006 4:45:31 PM PST by Jo Nuvark ((Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3))
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To: whattajoke

Humans ARE animals



Only to those who have been brainwashed by their professors. They make you 'beg' for a good grade or recommendation letters!

BTW, are you house trained or do you just run wild, as in your thinking.


598 posted on 02/20/2006 4:45:54 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: puroresu
So God has two eyes, two ears and a bad back? And exactly how much chest hair?

I always took it to mean that our soul, you know, the eternal part of us, the real part of us, was the part of us made in God's image, not our gangly bodies.

599 posted on 02/20/2006 4:46:24 PM PST by stands2reason (It's now 2006, and two wrongs still don't make a right.)
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To: Jo Nuvark
The Vedas are the oldest extent religious texts, accurately dated to between the 12th and 15th centuries BCE. Older writings, including some Egyptian religious texts, have been reconstructed from later works. The earliest Biblical texts date from about the 6th century BCE (when the Israelites decided to finally write down all their stories) -- derived from clues within the texts themselves (the same types of clues that date the Vedas). The earliest extent copies of Biblical texts date from the 2nd century BCE.

So, no, the Bible does not predate the Vedas, no matter how much you'd like them to.

600 posted on 02/20/2006 4:49:11 PM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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