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Evolution's bottom line
National Center for Science Education ^ | 12 May 2006 | Staff

Posted on 05/12/2006 12:13:47 PM PDT by PatrickHenry

In his op-ed "Evolution's bottom line," published in The New York Times (May 12, 2006), Holden Thorp emphasizes the practical applications of evolution, writing, "creationism has no commercial application. Evolution does," and citing several specific examples.

In places where evolution education is undermined, he argues, it isn't only students who will be the poorer for it: "Will Mom or Dad Scientist want to live somewhere where their children are less likely to learn evolution?" He concludes, "Where science gets done is where wealth gets created, so places that decide to put stickers on their textbooks or change the definition of science have decided, perhaps unknowingly, not to go to the innovation party of the future. Maybe that's fine for the grownups who'd rather stay home, but it seems like a raw deal for the 14-year-old girl in Topeka who might have gone on to find a cure for resistant infections if only she had been taught evolution in high school."

Thorp is chairman of the chemistry department at the University of North Carolina.


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KEYWORDS: butwecondemnevos; caticsnotchristian; christiannotcatlic; crevolist; ignoranceisstrength; ignorantcultists; pavlovian
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The full article which appeared in the Times, and which we can't post in full, is here: Evolution's Bottom Line.

I know, I know, the Times is a commie rag. But science isn't left or right, and there's nothing patriotic about ignorance. This is a good article.

1 posted on 05/12/2006 12:13:49 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
Evolution Ping

The List-O-Links
A conservative, pro-evolution science list, now with over 370 names.
See the list's explanation, then FReepmail to be added or dropped.
To assist beginners: But it's "just a theory", Evo-Troll's Toolkit,
and How to argue against a scientific theory.

2 posted on 05/12/2006 12:15:00 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Unresponsive to trolls, lunatics, fanatics, retards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: PatrickHenry

So it's about cash. Makes more sense to me now.


3 posted on 05/12/2006 12:16:19 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: PatrickHenry
there's nothing patriotic about ignorance

God bless you!

4 posted on 05/12/2006 12:16:59 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: PatrickHenry
In his op-ed "Evolution's bottom line," published in The New York Times (May 12, 2006), Holden Thorp emphasizes the practical applications of evolution, writing, "creationism has no commercial application. Evolution does"

Applications of evolution? I assume he mentioned naziism, communism, and eugenics programs?

5 posted on 05/12/2006 12:19:23 PM PDT by tomzz
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To: PatrickHenry

"reationism has no commercial application."

So you are saying the major religons are not wealty and the cable churches don't make money?


6 posted on 05/12/2006 12:19:53 PM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: PatrickHenry

And that's the bottom line... 'cause Richard Dawkins SAID SO!

7 posted on 05/12/2006 12:19:57 PM PDT by Tim Long (I spit in the face of people who don't want to be cool.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Executive Director Eugenie C. Scott is a physical anthropologist who taught at the university level before becoming Director of NCSE in 1987.

http://www.ncseweb.org/about.asp

he pro-evolution community continues to endorse organizations like the National Center for Science Education (executive director, Eugenie Scott) and the National Academy of Sciences as resources for unbiased mainstream science. What they conveniently fail to mention is that Eugenie Scott is a self-professed atheist. Moreover, a survey given to representatives of the National Academy of Sciences that was later published in a 1998 volume of the Journal of Nature confirms that 73% of its members are atheist and 20% are agnostic.1 In the same article, Oxford University scientist Peter Atkins said, "You clearly can be a scientist and have religious beliefs. But I don’t think you can be a real scientist in the deepest sense of the word because they are such alien categories of knowledge."

Eugenie Scott was quoted in a Dispatch editorial on 03/14/04 as saying, "By definition, science cannot consider supernatural explanations: If there is an omnipotent deity, there is no way we can exclude or include it in research design." However, this exact type of scientific research is published in peer-reviewed journals consistently. An example is a paper published in the 1999 volume of the Journal of Archived Internal medicine titled, "A Randomized, Controlled Trial of the Effects of Remote, Intercessory Prayer on Outcomes in Patients Admitted to the Coronary Care Unit."2

The genuine problem with Eugenie Scott’s contention of limiting scientific study only to naturalistic processes is that the definition of science today incorrectly accepts a much broader scope. Science today claims that every observation must be explained by naturalistic processes and therefore concludes that there is no such thing as miracles or an omnipotent deity. By embracing this expanded definition, science has now completely overstepped its authority in attempting to explain the natural world.

Science can revert back to the more limited definition of only studying known naturalistic processes, but this assertion must be supplemented with the recognition that science is not capable of explaining the natural world in its entirety. The "Critical Analysis of Evolution" lesson clearly attempts to use the limited definition of science by teaching that there is no naturalistic explanation or mechanism for macroevolution and consequently reveals why the militant pro-evolutionists are hyperventilating.

The atheist wing of the evolutionist community desires the more expanded definition of science because it demands the teaching of a natural world completely devoid of an omnipotent deity. The more limited scientific definition does not teach of a deity, but it correctly recognizes that if a naturalistic explanation does not exist for a given observation, then it is irresponsible to invoke some pseudoscientific extrapolation that has no basis in the scientific method.

http://www.creationists.org/patrickyoung/oped03.html

I'm sure Dr. Scott doesn't have an agenda.


8 posted on 05/12/2006 12:22:27 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: edcoil
So you are saying the major religons are not wealty and the cable churches don't make money?

They don't create wealth, they merely receive it.

9 posted on 05/12/2006 12:22:27 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Any guest worker program that does not require application from the home country is Amnesty)
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To: All
As long as this article is about evolution's bottom line, here are some examples of practical applications:
Genetic Algorithms and Evolutionary Computation. Long, but very interesting.
Specific examples of Genetic Algorithms. Practical applications galore!
The origins of food biotechnology.
10 posted on 05/12/2006 12:23:20 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Unresponsive to trolls, lunatics, fanatics, retards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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placemarker


11 posted on 05/12/2006 12:23:55 PM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: mlc9852
but it correctly recognizes that if a naturalistic explanation does not exist for a given observation, then it is irresponsible to invoke some pseudoscientific extrapolation that has no basis in the scientific method.

Worth repeating.

12 posted on 05/12/2006 12:24:08 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Any guest worker program that does not require application from the home country is Amnesty)
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To: PatrickHenry

From the article: "Since evolution has been the dominant theory of biology for more than a century, it's a safe statement that all of the wonderful innovations in medicine and agriculture that we derive from biological research stem from the theory of evolution."

This is a ludicrous statement! If you look to journalist such as this to defend your beliefs, you need to look farther...

Is this author trying to say that we would not have medical nor agricultural science today if not for the theory of evolution?? That is a tough pill to swallow. Do you agree with that statement??


13 posted on 05/12/2006 12:24:27 PM PDT by visually_augmented (I was blind, but now I see)
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To: Lurking Libertarian

So next time ask a pro-homosexual agenda activist if they believe in evolution, why are they promoting behavior which is inconsistent with Darwin's postulates (natural selection and survival of the fittest). Homosexual behavior doesn't propagate the species, and therefore is illogical and inconsistent with good evolutionary theory.


14 posted on 05/12/2006 12:24:55 PM PDT by lexfreedom
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To: freedumb2003

pseudoscientific extrapolation

I will psuedoscientifically extrapolate if I feel like it!


15 posted on 05/12/2006 12:25:20 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: tomzz

Applications for religious fundamentalism: flying airplanes into buildings. Perhaps we should compare the number of evolution opponents who have flown airplanes into buildings with the number of biology teachers that have done so.

Perhaps we should compare the number of clergymen convicted of child molestation with the number of biology teachers convicted of child molestation. Ideas apparently do have consequences.


16 posted on 05/12/2006 12:25:24 PM PDT by js1138
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To: PatrickHenry
Maybe that's fine for the grownups who'd rather stay home, but it seems like a raw deal for the 14-year-old girl in Topeka who might have gone on to find a cure for resistant infections if only she had been taught evolution in high school."

My high school biology teacher made sure no girls in our class would ever go into a biology related field. He made them cut up frogs and grasshoppers and prick their fingers to get blood out of them. He enjoyed watching them squirm. I seriously doubt any girl that class remembered the evolution part.
17 posted on 05/12/2006 12:25:44 PM PDT by microgood
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To: mlc9852
I will psuedoscientifically extrapolate if I feel like it!

Didn't your mother warn you that you'll go blind if you do? ;)

18 posted on 05/12/2006 12:26:41 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Any guest worker program that does not require application from the home country is Amnesty)
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To: PatrickHenry
I know, I know, the Times is a commie rag. But science isn't left or right

Darwinism is goofball science, and it's way to the wacky left.

19 posted on 05/12/2006 12:28:24 PM PDT by JCEccles (Kitzmiller Syndrome: anger and paranoia that someone is harboring critical thoughts about Darwinism.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Thanks for the ping.

There yet seems more suggestion than show, though interesting within the fossil record.

Then there's always reproduction, which couldn't have evolved since it had to work from the beginning.

20 posted on 05/12/2006 12:29:32 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: freedumb2003

LOL - can I do it just till I need glasses?


21 posted on 05/12/2006 12:29:53 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: microgood
>He made them cut up frogs and grasshoppers and prick their fingers to get blood out of them


"It's okay to say
the kids pricked their fingers, but
we cannot say they --"

22 posted on 05/12/2006 12:30:24 PM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: mlc9852
What they conveniently fail to mention is that Eugenie Scott is a self-professed atheist.

So he evidently eats small children and tortures animals? What has his being an atheist to do with the validity of the website he directs?

Oh, I get it. Ad hominem. If you can't counter the ideas, insinuate the ideas' holder is a bad man. Typical liberal strategy, but it should work with the relatively ignorant masses.

23 posted on 05/12/2006 12:30:26 PM PDT by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: mlc9852
What they conveniently fail to mention is that Eugenie Scott is a self-professed atheist.

Ahhhh, the core of evolution.

24 posted on 05/12/2006 12:36:21 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: Junior

Well, just so long everyone knows that Dr. Scott is the director and an atheist. It is always good to understand who you are dealing with and what their agenda might be. In this case, Dr. Scott's agenda is crystal clear.


25 posted on 05/12/2006 12:37:17 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: js1138
Applications for religious fundamentalism: flying airplanes into buildings. Perhaps we should compare the number of evolution opponents who have flown airplanes into buildings with the number of biology teachers that have done so.

So, you can proudly claim NAZIism, which is a result of evolutionary doctrine.

26 posted on 05/12/2006 12:38:39 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: mlc9852

So, the folks who are Christians at AIG and DI don't have agendas? Only atheists have agendas, huh?


27 posted on 05/12/2006 12:39:18 PM PDT by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: js1138

Why just biology teachers? Why not all teachers who have molested students? If you can lump all "fundamentalists" together, certainly we can lump all teachers together. They are all the same, right?

I would expect a better argument from you, though it is late on a Friday so I'll give you a pass.


28 posted on 05/12/2006 12:39:46 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: PatrickHenry
[ Thorp emphasizes the practical applications of evolution, writing, "creationism has no commercial application. Evolution does," and citing several specific examples. ]

So then; most/many churches are NOT businesses?..
How many empolyees do American churches have?..
How big are their payrolls?..

No commercial application is silly.. or disinformation..
How much property(of all kinds) do American churchs control(own)?..

Thorp is delusional.. I've mentioned a small portion of America church economic impact.. Whether Evos worship the protein manipulator God is another issue.. completely..

29 posted on 05/12/2006 12:39:48 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: Junior

Christians don't attempt to hide who they are.


30 posted on 05/12/2006 12:40:11 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: PatrickHenry

"Will Mom or Dad Scientist want to live somewhere where their children are less likely to learn evolution?"

WTH, can't mom and dad scientists do their own teaching. End public education and STFU.


31 posted on 05/12/2006 12:40:38 PM PDT by bahblahbah
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To: theFIRMbss

LOL...


32 posted on 05/12/2006 12:41:31 PM PDT by microgood
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To: aimhigh

Wait, I wanna be the first!!!

HITLER WAS A CHRISTIAN!!!


33 posted on 05/12/2006 12:41:38 PM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: metmom

Ping - just in case you're bored this afternoon. LOL


34 posted on 05/12/2006 12:41:52 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: hosepipe
Well, biology (and evolution) actually put products on the market. Churches basically bilk the gullible out of money in return for assurances that after the payee dies he'll be all right.

To put it succinctly, evolution sells commercial applications; religion sells hope.

35 posted on 05/12/2006 12:42:34 PM PDT by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: PatrickHenry

Why should individuals try to intelligently design cures for such diseases?

Wouldn't it be better to let such cures evolve through random selection?

I am intrigued as to the motives scientists might have for interfering with such natural processes.

:)


36 posted on 05/12/2006 12:42:52 PM PDT by lonestar67
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To: hosepipe

Waitaminit....

I thought Creationism was science? Now you're telling me that it's actually religion?


37 posted on 05/12/2006 12:43:58 PM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: aimhigh; mlc9852

mlc9852: What they conveniently fail to mention is that Eugenie Scott is a self-professed atheist.

aimhigh: Ahhhh, the core of evolution.

It is interesting that the doctrine of evolution is a critical tenet of the religion of atheism.


38 posted on 05/12/2006 12:44:02 PM PDT by visually_augmented (I was blind, but now I see)
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To: mlc9852

Maybe he doesn't wear his atheism on his sleeve the way some Christians wear their religion. So what? I don't go around announcing I have no wisdom teeth. It doesn't mean I'm trying to hide that fact.


39 posted on 05/12/2006 12:44:02 PM PDT by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: lonestar67

Gee, I don't know, saving lives, maybe?


40 posted on 05/12/2006 12:45:11 PM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Thorp is chairman of the chemistry department at the University of North Carolina

I'm embarrassed this man is from my state.

41 posted on 05/12/2006 12:45:16 PM PDT by Gritty (Patriots don't have to be dangerous psychos like liberals, but they could act like men-Ann Coulter)
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To: 2nsdammit

--Sounds good to me.

I hope they are strong lives and not weak lives.

:)


42 posted on 05/12/2006 12:46:54 PM PDT by lonestar67
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To: Junior; betty boop
[ Churches basically bilk the gullible out of money in return for assurances that after the payee dies he'll be all right. ]

Not all churches are churches.. not all christians are christians.. and not all humans are Primates.. make a note.. ;)

43 posted on 05/12/2006 12:47:07 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: lonestar67

"Wouldn't it be better to let such cures evolve through random selection?"

Natural selection is not random.

"I am intrigued as to the motives scientists might have for interfering with such natural processes."

Saving lives? Maybe of someone they love?


44 posted on 05/12/2006 12:47:46 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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To: 2nsdammit
Wait, I wanna be the first!!! HITLER WAS A CHRISTIAN!!!

No he wasn't. Read some history, not the laimstream press. He actively persecuted Christians. When the German armies conquired new towns, the first people killed were evangelical preachers.

45 posted on 05/12/2006 12:48:00 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: theFIRMbss

" . . the cock crowed three times! It's right there in the Bible."


46 posted on 05/12/2006 12:48:33 PM PDT by tumblindice
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To: PatrickHenry

Ping.


47 posted on 05/12/2006 12:49:14 PM PDT by Paddlefish ("Why should I have to WORK for everything?! It's like saying I don't deserve it!")
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To: PatrickHenry
"creationism has no commercial application. Evolution does,"

Actually, there's good money to be made in deliberately keeping people ignorant about science as the proliferation of charlatan book writers and lying creationist tape sellers and donation collectors demonstrate. I agree with the op-ed writer that it's the students who are deprived of an honest education who eventually suffer economically.

Teaching school students creationist anti-evolution lies is a form of child abuse and should criminally punished as such.

48 posted on 05/12/2006 12:51:35 PM PDT by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: Junior

Just so everyone knows which side the other is on, it's fair. But comparing lack of wisdom teeth with the lack of belief in God is weird.


49 posted on 05/12/2006 12:51:37 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: JCEccles
Darwinism is goofball science, and it's way to the wacky left.

Science is practiced in a set way whether it is biology, geology, chemistry etc. It includes testing a fact, making observations and making conclusions on those observations. Retesting and peer reviews are also a requirement.

If you are going to make such an accusation prove it.

It's embarrassing when I read stuff like yours on this db.

50 posted on 05/12/2006 12:52:18 PM PDT by hawkaw
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