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Terri's Day and nation's independence protects life culture
Renew America ^ | May 29, 2006 | Kevin Fobbs

Posted on 05/30/2006 11:14:37 AM PDT by KevinNuPac

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To: killjoy
My Grandfather just died two days ago. His body was shutting down and decided he did not want to be put on life support. He lasted about 24 hours before passing. Does this mean he is part of a 'death cult' in your eyes?

Your grandfather declined life support because he was dying. Terri was denied food and water because she wasn't dying.

151 posted on 06/10/2006 9:22:04 AM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: killjoy
Sorry about your relative. There's a major difference between natural death and a forced exit. Nobody escapes natural death and we are fighting the death lobby who push euthanasia which is illegal in most states but practiced freely anyway.

The death lobby is aligned with activist judges like www.judgegeorgegreer.com and also with George Soros and the ACLU. We take the murder of innocents seriously around here whether they are public executions like Terri Schiavo's or whether someone is a victim behind closed doors.

Adolph Hitler had a T-4 program to exterminate the population that has similarities to new dogma and propaganda which is driven by profit - millions upon millions of dollars.

Modern day profiteering by making death is a big deal. It is MONEY DRIVEN.

FLORIDA IS THE STARVATION STATE.

152 posted on 06/10/2006 9:28:11 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org & Tom Gallagher 4 Fla Guv: www.tg2006.com)
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To: T'wit
A Seeing Machine (the blind sheik judge greer) could use one of these:

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyid=2006-06-10T000758Z_01_N094427_RTRUKOC_0_US-SCIENCE-SIGHT.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

But, he refused Terri admittance into his courtroom which is against the ADA. Even seeing isn't believing with the corrupt, incompetent Judge Greer.

Why this crook isn't impeached and in prison is beyond me. Well, I know why he's not but someday...

153 posted on 06/10/2006 9:57:35 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org & Tom Gallagher 4 Fla Guv: www.tg2006.com)
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To: supercat

Well stated.


154 posted on 06/10/2006 10:15:47 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: 8mmMauser
My initial comment on this thread was made because of generally being sick of listening to comments about this case. There was a time on FR that it was impossible to have any thread at all without someone trying to hijack it within the first few posts. It is very similar to all the thread hijacking taking place now because of illegal immigration. In my eyes, the thread hijacking is completely destroying FR and making the site look like it is populated by a bunch of paranoid freaks.

That said, I decided to actually look into this case for the first time. After making requests on this thread for any pointers to an intelligent debate on this topic, nobody was able to send me any. I just went and read through some of the court cases related to it.

Since I know it will only start up a flame fest, I don't know if I should post my thoughts or not. In short, I think there are a lot of people on both sides of this issue that have way too much involved in the way of agenda. Money being one of the highest on the list.

155 posted on 06/10/2006 11:30:59 AM PDT by killjoy (Same Shirt, Different Day)
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To: TheSpottedOwl
I'm so very sorry for your loss. Your grandfather made a wise decision in his case. It was his time. Did he happen to mention wanting to meet up with his wife? Both my mom and ex mother in law(ex bro in law told me this)stated it was time to be with their husbands. When this happens, it's time to fly home.

My Grandmother is still alive, although just barely. I doubt, especially now, that she will be around much longer. Unfortunately being on the other side of the world I wasn't in a position to see him before he went and probably will not have a chance to see her either. :(

156 posted on 06/10/2006 11:33:15 AM PDT by killjoy (Same Shirt, Different Day)
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To: killjoy
I could no longer find the Martin Katz statement here on FR. He states, among others, ". . . We, as a society . . .have not managed, for whatever reason, to permit a mother, deluded or not, to put water onto the lips of her dying child, brain dead or not. . . . We, as a people, have so shamed ourselves, that we cannot look Mary Schindler, Terri Schiavo's mother, in the eye, and give her one good reason why WE did not allow her to give water for her dying child. How we came to this shameful point in our national existence is a question that demands examination. For our sake. For Mary Schindler, and her severely impaired child, Terri Schiavo, it is too late. We did not find it in our collective hears and souls, in our actions, to have mercy on them. . . ."

The many things that greatly bother me about this include the sadistic way Terri was treated. As someone on these threads said, "There was no favor too small for Michael to deny."

157 posted on 06/10/2006 11:52:02 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: killjoy
That said, I decided to actually look into this case for the first time. After making requests on this thread for any pointers to an intelligent debate on this topic, nobody was able to send me any. I just went and read through some of the court cases related to it.

I suspect one of the difficulties is that many Terri supporters have found that there is so much wrong with Michael's case that it's no more possible to have a reasonable debate about whether Michael's actions were proper, than it would be to debate whether water is wet or fire is hot.

Does Michael speak and behave in the manner of a sane, honest person? I have been unable to formulate any set of facts that would be consistent with his actions being sane and honest. Perhaps you could help me out.

Is Michael honest, but perhaps with a few screws loose (it would be understandable, if he was an honest person, that the stress of the situation might drive him a little crazy)? Again, try as I might I can't figure any set of facts that is consistent with his actions being those that an honest but slightly crazy person would be expected to make.

Is Michael a murderous psychopath? Perhaps. His actions and the facts of the case fit that scenario perfectly.

Is Michael simply a weak-willed guy who's being manipulated by a murderous psychopath named George Felos? Doesn't seem quite as likely, but still fits decently well with what's known of the case. If anyone can offer any other explanations to reconcile Michael's documented statements and actions with what is known and undisputed about the case, I'd like to hear them. None of the "innocent" explanations I've heard made sense a year ago; with continued revelations, they make even less sense.

158 posted on 06/10/2006 1:45:54 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: Dante3
Well stated.

Thanks, though I'm hardly the first to make that observation. Actually, the exrreme efforts to prevent Terri from being given any fluids orally suggest quite strongly to me that Michael knew she would probably have been able to swallow them. After all, if she was physically incapable of taking fluids orally and fatally choked when the parents tried to give them to her, that would have been the perfect scenario for Michael (and would have been a better scenario for Terri than death by dehydration).

159 posted on 06/10/2006 2:00:35 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: supercat

I agree.


160 posted on 06/10/2006 2:42:38 PM PDT by Dante3
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To: 8mmMauser
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161 posted on 06/10/2006 3:40:00 PM PDT by bjs1779
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To: supercat
>> Terri was denied food and water because she wasn't dying.

Neatly put.

Michael Schiavo used to complain, "When is that b*tch gonna die?" It took him many more years and all of HER rehab money to put her to death, but y'know, she was, like, in the way.

162 posted on 06/10/2006 6:51:33 PM PDT by T'wit (Due process: Two lawyers obfuscating the truth to the satisfaction of a bureaucrat in black robes.)
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To: 8mmMauser

A fine, well written letter.


163 posted on 06/10/2006 7:13:38 PM PDT by T'wit (Due process: Two lawyers obfuscating the truth to the satisfaction of a bureaucrat in black robes.)
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To: supercat
I suspect one of the difficulties is that many Terri supporters have found that there is so much wrong with Michael's case that it's no more possible to have a reasonable debate about whether Michael's actions were proper, than it would be to debate whether water is wet or fire is hot.

Obviously, the only things I know about the case at this point are from reading the court documents. Since you consider Michael insane, I am curious at what point do you personally think he became this way? Before they were married, after her collapse, etc...? Do you feel he was always this way?

Further, based on reading the court papers, it is clear to me that Micheal and the parents both argued their cases repeatedly in front of various judges. If Michael was insane, why did they rule in his favor?

164 posted on 06/10/2006 10:08:03 PM PDT by killjoy (Same Shirt, Different Day)
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To: killjoy
Further, based on reading the court papers, it is clear to me that Micheal and the parents both argued their cases repeatedly in front of various judges. If Michael was insane, why did they rule in his favor?

The most plausible scenario is that Michael is a lying psychopath. He could conceivably be honest but delusional, but that would be a pretty big stretch.

As to why judges would go along with him, a simple explanation would be that the parents didn't initially give a good reason not to trust Michael, and so the early decisions favored him. Judges don't like to reverse earlier decisions; some would rather let an innocent person die than admit they were mistaken.

Other explanations would also fit. Judge Greer was supposed to supervise Michael's handling of Terri's estate. If guardianship were ever handed over to anyone else, that person would be required to audit everything. Any problems would fall on Greer's head as well as Michael's.

If Michael was playing some games with Terri's books, I don't know that Greer would have been paying close enough attention to notice immediately. If Greer became aware of some malfeasance long after the fact, he would find himself in an uncomfortable situation: call official attention to the problem (and thus to his own failure to flag it earlier), or help Michael cover it up. I could easily imagine the latter option as seeming more attractive; if Greer went very far down that road, he'd have no choice but to keep on it (since exposure of Michael's actions would expose his own complicity in the cover-up). Not necessarily the only explanation, but IMHO it's the one that makes the most sense.

165 posted on 06/10/2006 11:29:56 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: killjoy

You hit the nail on the head with the hijacking problem.

But I don't know if it was your intent. New threads are frequently invaded by trolls and allies of the death lovers who try to steer the tone from discussion of issues of Terri's Legacy into threads on who is right, a faithful family fighting for their daughter or a sociopath bent on killing her. I told you before but you glossed over it. I used the example that in Church, we do not give equal time to the devil. Likewise on these threads, we are not debating by giving fair and balanced time to the side representing evil. We are pro-life. Freerepublic is pro-life.

As you know, would-be hijackers do their dirty work by shifting discussion away from the issue and into bickering and are implying that we and by extension Freerepublic are a bunch of paranoid freaks.

But now you are singing the same note over again. We have offered you on a platter a cornucopia of information sources and now you said we didn't. Instead you resort to a claim of reading some of the court cases related to it when we have asserted in very clear language the court cases related to the murder of Terri are corrupted in essence.

It sounds like you consider your thoughts likely to draw flames, and that your mind is made up, IOW you have no real interest in getting at the truth, only in supporting the side which is against us who are pro life and pro Freerepublic. Perhaps this is the wrong forum and topic for you. You will find a great many of the same stripe in Daily Kos or DU and with the MSM. Your thought patterns are echoed as well on anti-freerepublic sites. No point you have stated to date is otherwise original. We have heard it countless times from disruptors and trolls long gone or zotted.

You say you are sickened. We are too. But from your words it is not clear which end of that spectrum sickens you.

That leads me to ask. Are you sickened by the hijackers, allies of Mikey and trolls trying to hijack our threads or are you sickened by people of good will fighting for the Terri's of the world?

Your tone sounds like the latter. I do get suspicious of posters who ignore all presented to them and brush it aside with mantras, and continue their same tack.


166 posted on 06/11/2006 3:03:55 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; Abby4116; Alissa; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
From Karen Ward, RN for the North Country Gazette...

The practice of euthanasia was easily established and advanced in the United States under the pretense of end of life wishes, choices, compassion, dignity, assisted suicide, and self rights to the public through introductions of various means.

Among those heavily involved in pushing euthanasia via legislative and public policy change in the U.S. is Myra Christopher and the billionaire donors who fund the cause. Myra has incrementally dosed our society towards legalization of assisted suicide and euthanasia, largely through educational programs directed toward the medical field and medical industry, the legal field, government, the media, and the clergy, which leads to public policy changes.

Myra Christopher, Euthanasia and The Healthcare Connection - PART 10

8mm


167 posted on 06/11/2006 3:11:28 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: All
Perp walk...

TAMPA---Prominent Hillsborough County attorney Dennis Hernandez has been charged with false imprisonment, a felony and misdemeanor domestic battery as the result of a New Year's Day altercation with his ex-girlfriend, the mother of his three year son with whom he is involved in a child support and custody dispute.

Hernandez, 38, had been charged with domestic battery and kidnapping charges for allegedly beating his former girlfriend, Rebecca Crigler, at his south Tampa home on New Year's Day about 6:30 p.m.

Tampa Attorney Charged With False Imprisonment

8mm

168 posted on 06/11/2006 3:18:11 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: All
From ProLifeBlogs...

................

Waking those in a Permanent Vegetative State

Louis Viljoen awoke from a three year coma after he was administered a sleeping pill. The question is whether or not the drug will work on others:

In the coming months, British company ReGen will begin clinical trials with Zolpidem on 30 coma patients in South Africa, in the hope that the drug will also bring them back to life.

Its effect on Louis has been remarkable, says his mother. Photos of the now 36-year-old man adorn the wall above his bed, marking each of the 10 birthdays he has spent here at the Ikhaya Tini Vorster rehabilitation centre in Dunnottar, near Springs.

Note that just like Terri Schiavo and Haleigh Poutre, doctors had diagnosed Louis as being in a permanent vegetative state (PVS). They told his mother he would never recover.

Previously: End the Madness: PVS is reversible or misdiagnosed

Waking those in a Permanent Vegetative State

8mm

169 posted on 06/11/2006 3:25:09 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: All
Judge not...

PINELLAS COUNTY---Last month, The Florida Supreme Court voted to remove Pinellas-Pasco County Circuit Court Judge John Renke III of New Port Richey from the bench, the first time since 1970 that a judge has been removed solely for campaign violations.

But Renke wants the state's highest court to reconsider while he continues to draw his annual salary of $139,497.

Florida Judge Wants Rehearing On Removal Decision

8mm

170 posted on 06/11/2006 3:29:24 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: All
Baby Daniel's Fight...

Daniel Cullen II will probably never know the impact he might have on the Texas law governing when doctors can remove life support and end a patient's life.

But the 10-month-old – whose mother is fighting to prevent a Dallas hospital from disconnecting his ventilator – could become a test case as doctors, right-to-life activists and legislators hash out a proposal to revise the futile-care law for the 2007 legislative session.

The Dallas Morning News reported late last month that the ethics board at Children's Medical Center Dallas decided, against the wishes of Daniel's mother, that it would be futile and inappropriate to continue to treat him.

Right-to-life case may affect law

8mm

171 posted on 06/11/2006 3:37:06 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: 8mmMauser; killjoy
Post #68: >> How can you murder someone who was already dead? Terri died in 1990. Get over it.

Our visitor announced his point of view in his first post. I have not believed a word he's said since.

172 posted on 06/11/2006 3:38:21 AM PDT by T'wit (Due process: Two lawyers obfuscating the truth to the satisfaction of a bureaucrat in black robes.)
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To: 8mmMauser

The Florida legal tradition rolls on.


173 posted on 06/11/2006 3:40:50 AM PDT by T'wit (Due process: Two lawyers obfuscating the truth to the satisfaction of a bureaucrat in black robes.)
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To: bjs1779

I thought that may happen, am away from my computer and DSL and am doing the pony express routine with my dial up. Will put it up on my website when I get back and link to it.


174 posted on 06/11/2006 3:48:07 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: 8mmMauser
If Florida removed Judge Renke, it certainly should go after Judge Greer whose violations are far greater.
175 posted on 06/11/2006 3:51:54 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: 8mmMauser
>> But doctors and ethicists who helped design the 1999 futile-care law say the 10-day provision helps families face the burden of ending of a loved one's life by framing the incomprehensible space that separates life and death.

Ah, how rhapsodical! Yes, yes, let us "frame the incomprehensible space"!

Translation: You've got 10 days, then we snuff the patient.

176 posted on 06/11/2006 3:53:07 AM PDT by T'wit (Due process: Two lawyers obfuscating the truth to the satisfaction of a bureaucrat in black robes.)
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To: T'wit

I had missed his/her statement "Get over it." Terri's case was not like dropping a chipped teacup that you "get over it." Considering what was done to Terri and the implications of these acts for the rest of us, "getting over it" is a heartless and stupid statement to make.


177 posted on 06/11/2006 3:57:02 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: Dante3

Maybe one day soon....


178 posted on 06/11/2006 4:02:59 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: T'wit

You mmmean our visitor is not sincerely of good will? Who would'uv thunk?


179 posted on 06/11/2006 4:04:57 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Dante3
I'm just a poor little innocent who's undecided. Give me a pointer. What's wrong with that? C'mon, I'm just trying to learn. You say Michael is insane. Well how... Can't you take the time to help me out here? All I've read is the court documents. I don't know anything. She died in 1990...

You can hear more truth and snappier dialogue on those sponsored TV shows that sell rhinestone jewelry.

180 posted on 06/11/2006 4:15:32 AM PDT by T'wit (This moment of peace and quiet is brought to you by St. Fu, patron saint of sweet silence.)
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To: 8mmMauser
>> You mmmean our visitor is not sincerely of good will?

I started to wonder when he tried to sell me boy scout cookies.

181 posted on 06/11/2006 4:17:54 AM PDT by T'wit (This moment of peace and quiet is brought to you by St. Fu, patron saint of sweet silence.)
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To: T'wit

Well I'll be... And here I just thought the poor visitor just hadn't had an update in the last sixteen years. News is slow in some parts, you know.


182 posted on 06/11/2006 4:18:46 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Dante3
>> If Florida removed Judge Renke, it certainly should go after Judge Greer whose violations are far greater.

I think he should be exiled, maybe to St. Helena where they put Napoleon once upon a time. Greer has a Napoleon complex, so it would be a good place for him.

Napoleon in guarded exile on St. Helena

183 posted on 06/11/2006 4:30:17 AM PDT by T'wit (This moment of peace and quiet is brought to you by St. Fu, patron saint of sweet silence.)
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To: 8mmMauser

As I said in my previous post, because of this thread I did become serious about finding out more about the issue. I wouldn't have spent the time looking at the court papers if I was not. Obviously, those on this thread, including you, are just going to view me as a troll. In light of the last few posts about me, it is not worth continuing this discussion. Have a nice day.


184 posted on 06/11/2006 4:37:27 AM PDT by killjoy (Same Shirt, Different Day)
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To: killjoy

Buh bye


185 posted on 06/11/2006 4:38:47 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: T'wit

Somebody maybe could make a reservation for one at The Briars. But it is too touristy now. Not many islands off Florida isolated anymore either, but maybe some hammock in the Everglades...


186 posted on 06/11/2006 4:48:11 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: T'wit

LOL


187 posted on 06/11/2006 6:19:18 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: killjoy
Some of us have become perhaps oversensitive to certain comments. You would've understood it better if you had seen the horrific comments made about Terri while she was still alive - comments so vulgar the moderators deleted them from the threads. Terri's supporters were mocked over and over again and had vindictive slogans hurled at them.

The brutal manner she and her family were treated by her estranged husband and Judge Greer and the way she was killed is a real life horror story. When a little boy tried to bring her water because he felt sorry for her, he was actually handcuffed and taken to the police station. German, of all countries, offered to care for her for free, but Michael turned it down. It is the totality of the situation that makes statements, such as "get over it," no matter how meant, appear at best insensitive. It is not always easy to differentiate between someone who simply wants more information to someone who just wants to pick a fight. I know of good people who have received wrong information regarding Terri from the MSM.

188 posted on 06/11/2006 6:48:19 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: floriduh voter

Thanks for the note. I understand. I'm waiting for June's book.


189 posted on 06/11/2006 6:55:01 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: killjoy
As I said in my previous post, because of this thread I did become serious about finding out more about the issue. I wouldn't have spent the time looking at the court papers if I was not.

Since you've looked over the court papers, perhaps you can say what evidence exists of Terri's desire to be fatally dehydrated?

Regardless of whether or why judges found such evidence credible, do you find it credible given the knowledge of everything that has transpired since that evidence was heard?

To conclude that Terri, without a doubt, wanted to be fatally dehydrated, one would have to either be aware of some evidence that I am not (possible--if you are aware of such, maybe you can fill me in) or else draw a number of inferences which stretch credulity to the point of ridiculousness.

I think one of the difficulties many people have with this case is that it can be hard to acknowledge the existence of great evil. Given a choice between believing that many thousands of people are lying about what went on in World War II death camps, or believing that a country could be so evil as to slaughter millions of people in such facilities, many people would rather believe the former (thus the existence of Holocaust-deniers). Likewise, people find it easier to disbelieve all the evidence showing that Michael and Felos are sadistic monsters than to believe that anyone could really be as evil as the evidence would suggest Michael and Felos to be.

I'd like to think that Michael and Felos were doing the right thing. But I cannot come up with any explanation for their behavior which is consistent with such a hypothesis. If the conditions necessary to justify their broader actions existed, many of their specific actions would have made no sense. If you can come up with a consistent overall explanation that does not involve Michael being either psychopathic or delusional, I'd like to hear it.

190 posted on 06/11/2006 2:06:13 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: bjs1779; floriduh voter; amdgmary; All
My previous post #142 of the Cheryl Ford email included a clip which I was unable to link up at the time and now it is resolved. I uploaded the video clip from Cheryl Ford so it can be viewed from my website. It is in the QuickTime format.

Cheryl warns about the emotional content of this clip, and it touches me and Floriduh voter and other freepers at the vigil pretty hard because we were right there as this event unfolded.

I have been called a liar and less printable names for repeating what we lived through that horrible time, the time they pulled the plug on poor Terri and commenced her slow and painful execution. At the short time before this interview, we had heard first hand from an excited eyewitness that unequivocally a cop heard Terri cry out her phrase and that eyewitness said the cop could not deny it. He denied anyway. You can hear for yourselves how quickly they buried the truth just moments later. Here is the clip:

Attorney Weller interview

That moment sears into memory and brings to mind the White Rose once again.

"We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest."

8mm

191 posted on 06/11/2006 6:02:34 PM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: killjoy

I'm sorry to hear that you're so far away : (

How old is Grandma? I hope that somehow you can make it home to see her. (((hugs)))


192 posted on 06/11/2006 6:28:22 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (If you don't understand the word "Illegal", then the public school system has failed you.)
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To: 8mmMauser
I have been called a liar and less printable names for repeating what we lived through that horrible time, the time they pulled the plug on poor Terri and commenced her slow and painful execution.

Thanks 8mm. More than you know.

193 posted on 06/11/2006 6:34:47 PM PDT by bjs1779
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; Abby4116; Alissa; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; ...
Baby Daniel, Andrea Clark, Mrs. Vo, Sylvia's sister, all shared in common a fight for life against the State seeking their deaths. They all came to confrontation with a State of Texas Law, the Futile Care Law.

Whether misinterpreted or by intent, this is a Texas Death Penalty for the useless eater innocents. Perhaps with outcry it can change.

Here is what Andrea Clark's family say. It is linked to the update I posted yesterday on baby Daniel:

..................

On Jun 11, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Melanie Childers wrote:

Leslie,

I recently cleaned out my purse.  In it, I found the
information on the lady that joined us in protesting
in front of St. Luke's Hospital in Houston, when they
were trying to kill my sister:

Sylvia Garza's sister was in the hospital (St. Luke's
Episcopal) with pneumonia for 3.5 weeks and developed
sepsis (an infection in the blood, just like Andrea)
and the doctors recommended to the family that she be
taken off of life support.  Sylvia's sister, who had
never drank or smoked in her life, was 62 years old.
Her brain was functioning normally, but doctors didn't
think that she could survive the sepsis.  They
"counseled" the family to take her off of the
respirator and the family reluctantly agreed.

The doctors gave her shots of morphine (which are
known to depress respiratory function) and took her
off of the respirator.  Ms. Garza's sister lived,
breathing on her own, FOR EIGHTEEN HOURS.  This is
with morphine pumped into her, to depress her
respiratory system and with NO VENTILATOR, to help her
to breath.  When her doctor was approached by Mrs.
Garza, the patient's sister, and asked, "I thought my
sister was going to die very peacefully and quickly
once you removed the respirator?" the doctor replied
that the patient was just "very strong."

If she's so STRONG, WHY DIDN'T THEY GIVE HER A CHANCE
TO LIVE?  Why pump her full of morphine and take her
off the respirator?  Clearly, this patient had a
chance!  Clearly, this patient could have made it!

Mrs. Garza's email is:  TDWFB@aol.com  Her phone
number is:  281-265-4207.  She has a list of the
doctors involved in this.  This is clearly murder and
since the doctors (this happened three years ago)
didn't even convene an ethics meeting, they are
legally and criminally liable.  This is a woman who
was willing, after she saw the news that we were going
to protest in front of the hospital, to come out and
help us protest, because of what they had done to her
sister.  This might be someone who can speak out, as
well, against what these murderers are doing.

8mm


194 posted on 06/12/2006 3:01:19 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Lesforlife
Les, this situation echoes what happened to us personally a short while back, to what happened to my friend Uncle Johnny Costa. The doctors had convinced the family his heart was weak and he just couldn't make it and he was taken off life support. He was supposed to just expire quickly, a feeble exit. But to their horror like in this case of Sylvia's sister, he clung on to life, struggled to live, for days and days while being drugged at increased doses. Then the doctors explained that his failing fragile heart was really a strong heart. Clearly it was too late, as he slipped (was pushed) deeper into a spiral of death.

Likewise we were told Terri's feeble health and heart could barely carry on, yet she lasted an incredible thirteen days after her execution began.

This scenario must play out a whole lot, largely unreported.

8mm

195 posted on 06/12/2006 3:08:57 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: All
It is happening in Australia...

Adelaide, Australia (LifeNews.com) -- A family is embroiled in a feud over a 31 year-old man injured in an automobile accident that left him comatose. Doctors say they have no more hope for Mark Leigep's condition to improve and his mother wants a feeding tube supplying him with food and water to be removed.

But, Mark's brother Brian Leigep disagrees with the doctors and says he sees Mark's condition improving.

Leigep suffered head injuries as a result of the March 26 accident and doctors say scans show no sign of improvement. His mother, Joanne Dunn, who newspaper reports indicate did not raise him, is siding with physicians who want to remove the feeding tube.

Australia Automobile Accident Victim in Terri Schiavo-like Family Debate

8mm

196 posted on 06/12/2006 3:11:55 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: All; floriduh voter
Florida politics...

Four of the most frequent absentees in Congress are from Florida. They say they were doing work that benefits their constituents or had demands on their personal lives.

Snip...

Like Hastings, Davis pointed out that he participated in the most important debates that have come before Congress over immigration, stem-cell research and tax cuts. Davis spearheaded opposition to Republican efforts to keep a severely brain-damaged woman, Terri Schiavo, alive. The day he skipped the vote on phone-records fraud, he announced an endorsement for his gubernatorial campaign from the woman's husband, Michael Schiavo.

Four Florida Congress members on most-missed-votes list

8mm

197 posted on 06/12/2006 3:17:37 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: 8mmMauser
If she's so STRONG, WHY DIDN'T THEY GIVE HER A CHANCE TO LIVE?

Satan is pleased when a victim like this poor woman is placed in such a "trying" situation. Patients like her are victims of needle-wielding terrorists. Imagine the temptation to despair when you realize that your doctors and nurses are taking steps to kill you, rather than heal you.

I'm certain that Michael Schiavo must have been aware that he was using medical employees to push Terri toward despair. Schiavo is guilty of killing Terri's body, but, even more guilty of trying to kill her soul. My-kill and other enthusiastic euthanasiacs are guilty of attempting to kill the "love of life" and human spirit of those outsiders who are aware of what is going on, too.

Lazy doctors who believe in killing their patients don't invent or discover medical advancements. They are dead-enders.

198 posted on 06/12/2006 6:22:16 AM PDT by syriacus (Which humans does Gore accuse of causing the Ice sheets to retreat from Wisconsin?)
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To: 8mmMauser
This scenario [killing strong patients] must play out a whole lot, largely unreported.

I am tempted to think that, somewhere, a Mengele-like researcher is busily collecting data on the protracted deaths of patients like these.

Serial killers keep momentos.

199 posted on 06/12/2006 6:27:43 AM PDT by syriacus (Which humans does Gore accuse of causing the Ice sheets to retreat from Wisconsin?)
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To: 8mmMauser
We will continue to tell the truth even in the face of really big liars in empty suits who continue to protect criminals in black robes.

Baseball Caps and Tennis Shoes armed with the Truth.

Will Travel.

200 posted on 06/12/2006 9:19:50 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org & Tom Gallagher 4 Fla Guv: www.tg2006.com)
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