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Time for the Truth About Black Crime Rates
http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon2007-04-02hm.html ^ | Heather Mac Donald

Posted on 04/02/2007 8:46:24 AM PDT by ventanax5

Mayor Mike Bloomberg has the chance to transform not just New York, but all American cities, by breaking the taboo on talking about the connection between race and crime. Doing so would take courage that no politician has yet mustered. But after the manslaughter and assault indictments of three New York police officers for fatally shooting Sean Bell last November, Bloomberg has an opening: acknowledge that police officers may react too precipitously to perceived threats in charged urban settings, in exchange for a wide-open discussion about the sky-high black crime rates that encourage that reaction. Crime, not police racism, drives negative police-community relations in black neighborhoods. And until the crime rate comes down, tragedies like the Sean Bell shooting may reoccur.

(Excerpt) Read more at city-journal.org ...


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1 posted on 04/02/2007 8:46:25 AM PDT by ventanax5
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To: ventanax5
Somebody has to start talking about this. It affects every major city in the country and denying that we have a problem will not solve it.

I live in VA Beach Virginia and a local controversy here has revolved around the former Vice Mayor complaining that white cops were killing to many blacks. One of the local TV stations did a survey of the murders committed the previous year. What they found:

Murders in Norfolk 191
Blacks Murdered in Norfolk 168
Murders committed by blacks 88% (169)
Number of blacks killed by white cops 1

I've just about stopped watching the first 15 minutes of the local news...it's just 2 or 3 stories about some young black male killed by another young black male.

2 posted on 04/02/2007 8:55:33 AM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: ventanax5

" ... breaking the taboo on talking about the connection between race and crime. "

Why are we as a society so stupid? There is no connection between RACE and crime, there's a connection between CULTURE and crime! A black child raised in the same setting as a white child has no more propensity toward violence than the white child. (Allowing for individual variances of course. Some kids are more aggressive than others regardless of race).


3 posted on 04/02/2007 8:57:48 AM PDT by brownsfan (It's not a war on terror... it's a war with islam.)
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To: pgkdan
[ Murders in Norfolk 191 Blacks Murdered in Norfolk 168 Murders committed by blacks 88% (169) Number of blacks killed by white cops 1 ]

And thats just the murders.. Wonder what Detroit's statistics are.. Chicago, L.A., Atlanta, etc..

4 posted on 04/02/2007 9:03:36 AM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: ventanax5

Liberals are quick to point out that poverty breeds crime and more blacks live in poverty, but they won't make the logical deduction blacks commit more crimes. Racism has nothing to do with it. Political correctness forces the denial of many simple truths that ultimately perpetuates the evils for which political correctness is the supposed cure.


5 posted on 04/02/2007 9:07:33 AM PDT by Spok
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: brownsfan
There is no connection between RACE and crime, there's a connection between CULTURE and crime! A black child raised in the same setting as a white child has no more propensity toward violence than the white child.

Thank you for drawing everyone's attention to that. We have a tendency on this site as in the broader society of equating "black" with "poor, inner-city, culturally bankrupt, criminal." Yet there are millions upon millions of middle-class black people who are raising their children right and don't live in the ghetto. Criminality has nothing to do with color. It has everything to do with culture. And inner-city white kids in Britain raised in conditions of depravity have the same tendency to criminal behavior as black kids here.

7 posted on 04/02/2007 9:09:03 AM PDT by Fairview ( Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.)
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To: ventanax5

"Isnora and his colleagues knew the following, when they saw a car racing toward them whose occupants they believed could have guns:"


How big is that parking lot?


8 posted on 04/02/2007 9:09:21 AM PDT by ansel12 ((America, love it ,or at least give up your home citizenship before accepting ours too.))
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To: ventanax5
"Crime, not police racism, drives negative police-community relations in black neighborhoods."

True. But until "black neighborhoods" begin taking responsibility for their actions and stop blaming the crimes they commit on the color of their skin, nothing will change - Including the rapidly growing number of black racists.

9 posted on 04/02/2007 9:10:36 AM PDT by Finop (The Liberal says... "It's not fair that you work harder than I do")
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To: hosepipe
Wonder what Detroit's statistics are.. Chicago, L.A., Atlanta, etc..

The war on crime is failing. Time to redeploy out of the cities.

10 posted on 04/02/2007 9:11:23 AM PDT by AU72
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To: AU72

Way ahead of you..


11 posted on 04/02/2007 9:13:04 AM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: pgkdan

Blacks committ about 80-85% of all crimes in the US, and the percentage would be much higher if we didn't lock up these thugs.


12 posted on 04/02/2007 9:13:51 AM PDT by baubau (BOYCOTT businesses that hire 3rd world illegal aliens.)
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To: brownsfan

"There is no connection between RACE and crime"

BS!

The connection is very clear.

Blacks committ a very highly disproportionate number of crimes in all categories. In some cities they committ about 90% of the crimes even though they are a minority.


13 posted on 04/02/2007 9:16:15 AM PDT by baubau (BOYCOTT businesses that hire 3rd world illegal aliens.)
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To: ventanax5
Mayor Mike Bloomberg has the chance to transform not just New York, but all American cities, by breaking the taboo on talking about the connection between race and crime.

The opening ploy for a huge spending plan.

14 posted on 04/02/2007 9:16:29 AM PDT by RJL
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To: ventanax5
“The “public doesn’t get how frightened cops are,” says a former NYPD commanding officer.”

Maybe not... but their feeling it other ways. Cops, under direction of their unions and the politicians will avoid the high-violence/high-crime areas in order to focus on 'safer' locations to police. Locations that bring in revenue through fines and citations... rather than drain resources in neighborhoods that are crime-ridden... but broke.

15 posted on 04/02/2007 9:18:52 AM PDT by johnny7 ("Issue in Doubt." -Col. David Monroe Shoup, USMC 1943)
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To: babygene

"Isn't that the same as saying that all dogs temperament's are the same regardless of breed? Are not "race" and "breed" the same in this context?"

Absolutely, positively not. What I was pointing out is if I have 2 kids, their temperment can be very much different. It's not a race issue, it's individual makeup. 2 kids, same DNA, same upbringing, different temperment. Happens all the time.

Black people were bred. No doubt. And I do believe we can breed humans for traits, just as we can other creatures. Blacks were NOT bred for aggression. Furthermore, blacks haven't been bred for many generations, 7 or 8 at least? We consider a dog what is has one non-breed parent to be a mutt. I am a mutt. I think at this point, blacks are mutts. I mean that in a good way. Being a "mutt" means you have a random distribution of characteristics in your bloodline.

Blacks are not more prone to violence as a RACE. To believe that is racist. Those who benefit from racial tensions color it as a race issue. It's a CULTURE issue.


16 posted on 04/02/2007 9:19:27 AM PDT by brownsfan (It's not a war on terror... it's a war with islam.)
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To: baubau

Bump


17 posted on 04/02/2007 9:19:56 AM PDT by Plains Drifter (I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it!!!)
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To: brownsfan

Possibly, but that is not how the race pimps and liberals see it. So one can hardly be faulted for using their terms.


18 posted on 04/02/2007 9:20:42 AM PDT by School of Rational Thought (27 B stroke 6 required)
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To: pgkdan
live in VA Beach Virginia and a local controversy here has revolved around the former Vice Mayor

I should have made clear that this was the Vice Mayor of Norfolk, not VA Beach.

19 posted on 04/02/2007 9:20:46 AM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: baubau

But the cause is not race.

The cause is fatherlessness.

About 30% of fatherless you men are incarcerated or on probation.

The problem is that about 80-90% of black children are born without a father, while about 30% of whites have no father.

If you apply 30% X 80%, you get about 24% (a quarter) of young black men under judicial supervision. If you apply 30% x 30%, you get about 9% (a tenth) of white you men.

That's a huge disparity.

The key is whether there is a responsible male role-model and disciplinarian in the home. When black culture allows massive out-of-wedlock births, it sews its own fate.

Black Americans have to create a new social trend: Daddy stays with Mommy. How they do that is anyone's guess, since these depths have never previously been plumbed, or climed out of.


20 posted on 04/02/2007 9:23:23 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (McCain / Feingold - 2008 ... "Shut Up or Go To Prison")
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To: pgkdan
Murders in Norfolk 191 Blacks Murdered in Norfolk 168 Murders committed by blacks 88% (169) Number of blacks killed by white cops 1.

Norfolk has what, 250,000 people? NYC, in contrast, has 8,300,000 people, yet the number of murders is only about 550 per year.

21 posted on 04/02/2007 9:23:33 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: brownsfan
There is no connection between RACE and crime, there's a connection between CULTURE and crime!

Perhaps, but I don't see any leaders from the Black community admitting that it is their culture that is responsible for the Black-on-Black crime. Nor do I see Jesse, Al, or any of their cronies doing anything to place the blame where it belongs. The only exception to this is Bill Cosby, and because of his honesty about it, the Black culture has apparently disowned him. Sadly, most Black leaders' solution to their problems is to throw more (of yours and my) money at the problem, a tactic that hasn't worked once in the past 50 years.

22 posted on 04/02/2007 9:24:31 AM PDT by econjack
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To: ventanax5

It's the liberal government programs, the hip-hop culture, and the Drug War, IMO, that has contributed to black-on-black crime.


23 posted on 04/02/2007 9:25:53 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Remember, don't shoot food!)
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To: baubau

" "There is no connection between RACE and crime"

BS!"

Inner city black culture glorifies violence. muslims are raised to glorify killing and death. Look how willing muslims are to sacrifice themselves violently for their cause.
If you grow up around people who carelessly handle and shoot weapons, who constantly talk of "busting a cap in someone", who find nothing wrong with beating the heck out of someone over a trivial issue, you form a different set of values.
A black child raised in the right way, is no more prone to violence than a white. There are millions of gentle, fine, middle class blacks in America.

You either are looking at this the wrong way, or you have issues.


24 posted on 04/02/2007 9:26:00 AM PDT by brownsfan (It's not a war on terror... it's a war with islam.)
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To: pgkdan
This is all old news. The new news is that blacks are being killed in the downtown areas by recent immigrants both illegal and legal; There's a firestorm coming when its "discovered" that more americans have been killed by illegals than have been killed in Iraq and afghanistan. Take a look at any major metropolitan area. Wanted for Murder in New York City.

Pictures of most wanted in Washington DC

Pictures of top 10 most wanted in LA Up until two months ago these pictures included the nationality of the perps. they were all foreign and most were mexican.

FBI's Chicago List of Most Wanted

25 posted on 04/02/2007 9:27:29 AM PDT by ckilmer
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To: ventanax5
tragedies like the Sean Bell shooting

snort! That was no tradgedy.

26 posted on 04/02/2007 9:27:35 AM PDT by Fierce Allegiance (One fish, two fish, I want to go catch bluefish.)
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To: School of Rational Thought

"Possibly, but that is not how the race pimps and liberals see it. So one can hardly be faulted for using their terms."

And when you use their terms, you fall into their trap. Do you also use their terms in the economic arena? You accept wealth redistribution as merely helping?


27 posted on 04/02/2007 9:28:00 AM PDT by brownsfan (It's not a war on terror... it's a war with islam.)
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To: Labyrinthos

Closer to 200,000. The thugs and gang bangers and wannabes are out of control. You've got 12, 13 and 14 year old boys getting into a tussle on the basketball court and someone's going to get killed. Nearly every day. Everyday if you include the other cities in Tidewater. And while this is going on you've got the highest elected black official in the city playing the race card against the police.


28 posted on 04/02/2007 9:28:38 AM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: pgkdan
pkgdan wrote:
Somebody has to start talking about this. It affects every major city in the country and denying that we have a problem will not solve it

Um.... someone HAS BEEN "talking about this", 'way back in 1994 and even earlier.

I can't post a direct link, but you can find out what they said here in HTML format:
http://www.amren.com/946issue/946issue.html

And the same article here in PDF format:
http://www.amren.com/pdf/94June.pdf

I challenge you to read either of these.

BTW, I sense this thread may be pulled in short order. There are some things that conservatives may talk about, and other things that they may not.

- John

29 posted on 04/02/2007 9:29:15 AM PDT by Fishrrman
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To: brownsfan
True story:

At a gun shop in Torrance, CA, two weeks ago, I saw a young black father taking his test for a handgun license (?), which he failed (0 / 10).

While waiting, his 4 year old daughter asked him:

"Daddy, are you going to buy a gun to kill mommy?"

30 posted on 04/02/2007 9:29:32 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (McCain / Feingold - 2008 ... "Shut Up or Go To Prison")
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To: brownsfan
There is no connection between RACE and crime, there's a connection between CULTURE and crime! A black child raised in the same setting as a white child has no more propensity toward violence than the white child.

Outstanding post!

31 posted on 04/02/2007 9:29:38 AM PDT by Fierce Allegiance (One fish, two fish, I want to go catch bluefish.)
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To: brownsfan

Excellent point.


32 posted on 04/02/2007 9:30:03 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: econjack

"Nor do I see Jesse, Al, or any of their cronies doing anything to place the blame where it belongs. "

Follow the money.
The self proclaimed "black leaders" make lots of money from racial conflict. It benefits these leaders to propogate race conflict, not solve it.
Same for liberals. Affirmative action programs, outreach programs, this program that program, most ineffective, some damaging, but all employ lots and lots of liberals.


33 posted on 04/02/2007 9:33:31 AM PDT by brownsfan (It's not a war on terror... it's a war with islam.)
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To: brownsfan

Exactly right. It's a culture issue. I've worked with many blacks who I've been really close to. Unfortunately, they've learned early on that 'little' crimes are okay. Smoking dope, selling dope, stealing stuff, bullying to get ones' way. And it all leads to bigger stuff. One friend of mine was a 'church' girl. But she supplied our workplace with dope I found out. In one year, 3 of her boyfriends were shot dead in drug/turf/gang-related shootings. Whites do the same thing, but it's not accepted or expected in white areas as it is in the inner cities. It's totally a culture issue.


34 posted on 04/02/2007 9:33:39 AM PDT by KingRonnie9
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To: ventanax5
Here's the DOJ Bureau of Justice stats.
35 posted on 04/02/2007 9:33:55 AM PDT by rabidralph
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To: brownsfan
Blacks are not more prone to violence as a RACE. To believe that is racist.

At the risk of you calling me names, let me point out that of all the race riots that we have had in this country going back to, oh, say, they Watts riots in 1965, or the Rodney King riots, I cannot think of a single one where blacks were not the perpetrators. In fact, every single riot I can think of, besides the staged "days of rage" by Seattle anarchists, were black riots, often with white victims.

The looters in New Orleans who went around robbing Katrina survivors were black. The Tutsis and the Hutus in Africa settled their dispute by mass genocide, using machetes. Or look at Sudan and Darfur. Slavery and genocide.

Not all blacks are like that, surely. But they DO have a major tendency towards violence as a group, a fact demonstrated by the size of their prison population, and a fact glorified in their music and "gangster" lifestyle.

36 posted on 04/02/2007 9:35:34 AM PDT by Kenton (All vices in moderation. I don't want to overdo any but I don't want to skip any either.)
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To: ventanax5

I have tried, Lord knows I have tried, to treat Blacks as equals and not display any prejudice. They (the Blacks) have made this impossible.


37 posted on 04/02/2007 9:37:28 AM PDT by lawdude (2006: The elections we will live to die for!)
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To: brownsfan
Blacks are not more prone to violence as a RACE. To believe that is racist. Those who benefit from racial tensions color it as a race issue. It's a CULTURE issue.

Black ghetto culture accepts criminality and breeds crime. It's the gangster mentality that has run rampant in the black community that's causing so much grief. We have poor whites in Tidewater too. People just as poor as those living in subsidized housing who do all the killings. But they're not out on the streets murdering each other because one doesn't like the way the other looked at him. What's the difference? They're wearing the same baggy pants and dew rags. They're just as disrespectful to the overall culture as their black counterparts, they're just not nearly as violent.

38 posted on 04/02/2007 9:39:02 AM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: pgkdan

I used to live in Norfolk in the late 1970's. Church Street in Norfolk was one of the most dangerous places in America back then. I also recall a bar on Hampton Blvd. called "Snoppy's" or something like that. Some kid was in there who shouldn't have been and he took a 12 gauge to the gut and was blown right out the front door. Looks like the situation hasn't changed all that much.


39 posted on 04/02/2007 9:39:36 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: ansel12
"How big is that parking lot?"

Yea, I quit reading when I got to that sentence...

Accelerating at 1G how fast would be going in 20 feet? At the end of the 2nd full second you would be going 43 mph and would have traveled almost 100 feet. I would guess that after only 20 feet the airbag wouldn't even blow hitting a solid object ... oh! Right, the air bag didn't go off did it?

40 posted on 04/02/2007 9:40:16 AM PDT by babygene (Never look into the laser with your last good eye...)
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To: Kenton

"Not all blacks are like that, surely. But they DO have a major tendency towards violence as a group, a fact demonstrated by the size of their prison population, and a fact glorified in their music and "gangster" lifestyle."

Think it out a little more carefully. Culture is a set of group beliefs and values.
White guys in the south like fishing and Nascar. Not all, but a lot of them do. Probably a majority. So, does that happen because that's just what white guys do? It's in their DNA? Why is it more pronounced in the south? I'm white, I don't really care for fishing or Nascar.
Or maybe it's what one sees and hears growing up? Your dad and uncles do it, the kids you know like it, so you do too.
Is it possible that happens with violence? Do you think that maybe a black kid raised exactly how a white kid is raised will turn out the same?
I do.


41 posted on 04/02/2007 9:42:12 AM PDT by brownsfan (It's not a war on terror... it's a war with islam.)
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To: pgkdan
You've got 12, 13 and 14 year old boys getting into a tussle on the basketball court and someone's going to get killed.

In Indianapolis last week a 14 year old male shot and killed a 39 year old male because the older man insisted on being paid for the work he did on the kid's car. (It was never made clear why a 14 year old is having a car worked on.)

42 posted on 04/02/2007 9:43:11 AM PDT by econjack
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To: ventanax5

Bump for an excellent posting!

BTW, I've posted full articles from City Journal with no complaints.


43 posted on 04/02/2007 9:44:05 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: lawdude

"I have tried, Lord knows I have tried, to treat Blacks as equals and not display any prejudice. They (the Blacks) have made this impossible."

Prejudice is a logical reaction.
If every time you eat a blue berry, you get sick, pretty soon you won't like blue berries.
If every time you have an interaction with a black person, it turns out poorly for you... well, of course you won't like blacks.
It's important you understand that the culture produces those traits we find undesirable. The net result is the same. But if we realize it's the culture, the is hope. If you, (incorrectly), blame it on the person's race, there is no hope. For them or you.


44 posted on 04/02/2007 9:45:39 AM PDT by brownsfan (It's not a war on terror... it's a war with islam.)
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To: Labyrinthos

The city has had a remarkable rennaissance. The downtown area is a jewel. Granby street has been reviatized and has a vibrant restaurant and arts culture. We have a new Opera House, several new theatres and concert venues and a beautiful riverfront park. We've built a beautiful new AAA ballpark that "Baseball" magazine called one of the most beautiful ball parks in America. If you were here in the '70's you wouldn't recognize Norfolk now. It's clean, safe and beautiful. Unless you wandered into one of the few remaining 'ghetto' areas left in the city. There are several pretty good sized subsidized housing complexes still around and that's where the problems are.


45 posted on 04/02/2007 9:46:29 AM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: ventanax5

Propensity for criminal activity has no relation to one's race. It's socioeconomic and cultural.


46 posted on 04/02/2007 9:47:09 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: brownsfan
"I think at this point, blacks are mutts. I mean that in a good way. Being a "mutt" means you have a random distribution of characteristics in your bloodline."

I think a mutt that looks like a pit-bull is more likely to leave a bloody sneaker in your back yard than a mutt that looks like a spaniel...

47 posted on 04/02/2007 9:47:25 AM PDT by babygene (Never look into the laser with your last good eye...)
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To: AU72

Not NYC (manhattan). It's awesome as far as crime goes.


48 posted on 04/02/2007 9:47:42 AM PDT by NYC Republican (GOPs and Conservatives' Worst Nightmare - Myopic, Single-Issue Voters)
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To: Fairview

There is no connection between RACE and crime, there's a connection between CULTURE and crime! A black child raised in the same setting as a white child has no more propensity toward violence than the white child.

Thank you for drawing everyone's attention to that. We have a tendency on this site as in the broader society of equating "black" with "poor, inner-city, culturally bankrupt, criminal." Yet there are millions upon millions of middle-class black people who are raising their children right and don't live in the ghetto. Criminality has nothing to do with color. It has everything to do with culture. And inner-city white kids in Britain raised in conditions of depravity have the same tendency to criminal behavior as black kids here.


100% correct in my (small) mind!!
Color/race has nothing to do with it, culture has it all!
Jack


49 posted on 04/02/2007 9:48:59 AM PDT by btcusn (Giving up the right to arms is a mistake a free people get to make only once.)
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To: brownsfan
"Blacks are not more prone to violence as a RACE. To believe that is racist."

That is an absolutely stupid thing to say...

50 posted on 04/02/2007 9:49:05 AM PDT by babygene (Never look into the laser with your last good eye...)
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