Posted on 02/17/2008 7:34:33 AM PST by DivaDelMar
The folks I quote were writing Constitutions while doctors were performing blood lettings and surgery without the benefit of anesthesia or sterilization. Your point is, what, exactly?
Just as any other sales tax.
If you said the truth, according to how we compute sales taxes, 30%, then you would have a greater risk of having the prospect run away from you as fast as he could.
Then you would have to shout "wait you haven't heard about the pre-bates yet!"
And the “Bill of Rights” encompasses the first ten amendments, not the 16th.
And on the danger of enumerating rights, I recommend Federalist Paper No. 84, here: http://patriotpost.us/fedpapers/fed_84.html
I’m not certain that the Fair Tax will work, but i am certain that it would be sooo delicious to see all at the IRS have to go get a real job in the private sector. And keeping said job has to do with profit and loss.
Oh yeah, that thing called profit and loss..... Gee now let me see....How does that work? Yeah, you have to work efficiently right?
The prebate is factored into the rate calculation, just as exempting “necessities” would narrow the base, necessitating an increase in the rate.
When I’ve explained the rate difference to groups, I always start with the $1.00 example I gave you. When I ask what the rate of the tax is, they ALWAYS respond: “23%.” When I explain that if they want to spend $1 on goods and they will have to pay 30 cents in tax, and I ask what the rate is, they ALWAYS respond “30%.” After saying, “But wait a minute, you just told me the rate was 23%!” I launch into a discussion of tax inclusive rates vs. tax exclusive rates.
THERE IS NO INTENT TO DECEIVE, only a genuine desire to provide a valid basis of comparison to the income tax.
Your intent is different from the known effect. Not what one would expect from something claiming to be fair.
If within 2 minutes of initiating a discussion on the rate we disclose the fact, yes FACT, that the tax exclusive rate is 30%, how is that unfair?
Before making a decision on a policy, don’t you want all of the facts or is your mind made up such that you don’t care to hear all of the facts?
The rebate and an exemption schedule are equivalent in intended effect, i.e. to avoid taxing the essentials of life. A rebate is a more effective approach than exemptions, since the rebate:
It occurs to me someone should mention the basic premise of the FairTax. The current income and payroll tax system is perverse, unfair, incorrect, indefensible, incompatible with a healthy economy, dangerous to our future as a nation and basically un-fixable. Every time we meddle with income tax to fix some problem, we create new opportunities for influence-peddling and indulgences, taking a step closer to bureaucratic despotism and the dissolution of freedom. Or the chaos of revolution - after all, you don't think folks will stand for this forever, do ya? As long as there is a direct tax on individuals someone will desire to wield it as an instrument of power and influence. And we'll never get the issue of spending for power and influence.
But we can't just throw the whole thing out without causing tremendous upheaval and destroying the country. That's the status quo the spenders and looters would prefer, to prevent us interfering with their power. The FairTax is the answer to the challenge. Replace the payroll and income taxes with the FairTax and the relationship between spending and taxation becomes crystal clear. The tremendous influence of the government over social policy, which has always been misused, is now diminished to let us live freely again.
So, I view the FairTax as kind of a litmus test. Are you going to be part of the problem or part of the solution?
thanks for the ping, interesting to see another one come clean.
I don’t care how many tomes, over how many articles, over how many years, you have made these comments to me.
It’s typical liberal nature that if there is a federal consumption tax ever imposed at the cash-register, the liberals will not be able to resist the urge and desire to turn that point of sale collection of federal monies into a VAT.
Argue the fine points of the Fair Tax proposal all you want. As long as there are democrats in Congress living and breathing, they will eventually turn any point of sale consumption tax at the federal level into a VAT.
There is nothing you, or the Fair Tax books or articles or professors, or spreadsheets or anything else can do or say to change my mind. Liberals never met a tax they do not want to expand and enlarge. The Fair Tax is a nice fat tool to leverage a VAT into our wallets.
PS: love the tagline.
Thank you. I’ve been arguing with that guy for years on this very point and you are the first person to recognize the obviousness of my point.
Hell, if there were some way to guarantee that it would never become a VAT, I actually like the idea. But the true-believers keep attacking me instead of looking at the reality of the situation.
The inclusive vs exclusive concept is not difficult. I have come to believe that the reason some people don’t “get it” is not because of ignorance OR stupidity. They don’t get it out of stubbornness. It is a filibuster. If we get hung up on an inclusive vs exclusive discussion, we will have less energy to spend on discussing the benefits of FairTax and how to deal with some of the likely problems that will need to be solved.
The necessity for a filibuster reveals there is a hidden agenda somewhere. I believe it is likely some people here are protecting their turf by picking at the FairTax. Lord knows there are a lot of people earning their livelihood in the tax compliance industry. That is a major part of the expense of the IRS system.
So to those tax lawyers, tax accountants, tax code instructors, tax preparers, and Turbotax code writers out there, I am sorry if the Fairtax would put you in the category of buggy whip makers. Some of you will find work in the inevitable (but smaller) bureaucracy of the FairTax. To the rest of you, welcome to the productive part of the American economy.
And I am going to spend time today trying to figure out how to pay the correct tax on some stock I sold last year. It was acquired at a discount in a company stock plan, which makes it a little more complicated. But that’s OK, because we love the income tax so much.
like I said: And we'll never get the issue of spending for power and influence.
It starts with a lie, is calculated with a lie, lives in denial, and makes impossible promises.
I’m starting to think Obama is taking the noise to content ratio directly from the boorts/linder book.
I doubt if anyone here would complain about less spending. But you haven't explained how less spending and the income tax is better than less spending and the FairTax.
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