Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Should Scientism be considered a religion on Free Republic?
June 30, 2008 | Kevmo

Posted on 06/30/2008 4:41:23 PM PDT by Kevmo

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 351-400401-450451-500501-532 last
To: Religion Moderator

Here’s the deal. LENR is a theory or invention but not a belief like dispensationalism, Catholicism, etc.
***And yet, Paul La Violette was terminated from the US Patent office because he “believed in” Cold Fusion.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m6052/is_2002_March/ai_86472886

Cold fusion confusion the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission’s incredible interpretation of religion in LaViolette v. Daley
Army Lawyer, March, 2002 by Drew A. SwankIs cold fusion (1) the equivalent of Catholicism? Is believing in extraterrestrials the same as being an Episcopalian? In the recent Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) decision of LaViolette v. Daley, (2) the EEOC held that the complainant’s unusual beliefs regarding cold fusion, cryptic messages from extraterrestrials, and other “scientific” beliefs are entitled to the same protection in the workplace from discrimination as religious beliefs. (3) This note, by examining the facts of the case, the relevant statutes, agency regulations, and case law, will demonstrate that the EEOC’s ruling has impermissibly expanded the definition of “religion” to the point that it has created a new cause of actionable discrimination—something the EEOC has neither the power nor the authority to do.

Genesis

Paul LaViolette had been a patent examiner with the Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) until he was fired on 9 April 1999. (4) On 28 June 1999, LaViolette filed a formal complaint of discrimination, alleging that the PTO fired and refused to rehire him based upon his “unconventional beliefs about cold fusion and other technologies.” (5) The Department of Commerce, of which the PTO is part, dismissed LaViolette’s complaint on 13 September 1999, for failure to state a claim within the purview of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. (6)

LaViolette appealed the dismissal, arguing that “`discrimination against a person on account of his beliefs is the essence of discrimination on the basis of religion.’ Therefore, he contends, his scientific beliefs in cold fusion are protected.” (7) The EEOC reversed the agency’s dismissal of his complaint and remanded it for further processing. (8) While an agency must dismiss a complaint of discrimination that fails to state a claim, (9) here the EEOC held:

In determining which beliefs are protected under Title VII, the Supreme
Court has held that the test is whether the belief professed is sincerely
held and whether it is, in his own scheme of things, religious....
Moreover, in defining religious beliefs, our guidelines note that “the fact
that no religious group espouses such beliefs ... will not determine
whether the belief is a religious belief of the employee ...

In the instant case, complainant argues that his unconventional beliefs
about cold fusion and other technologies should be viewed as a religion and
therefore protected. Complainant claims he was terminated and denied the
opportunity to be rehired because of religion, which embodies his cold
fusion beliefs. Therefore, under the applicable law noted above, we find
that the agency improperly dismissed complainant’s claim of discrimination
for failure to state a claim. (10)
While the EEOC subsequently stated that it did not determine the validity of LaViolette’s complaint, (11) by allowing the case to go forward, it has extended Title VII protection to scientific beliefs. In doing so, the EEOC not only misapplied its own regulations, but also ignored the statutes and case law that govern it and exceeded its statutory mandate as well.

Numbers

The ultimate question presented by LaViolette’s complaint is whether his scientific beliefs deserve the same protection from discrimination as another’s religious beliefs. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (12) provides that it shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer “to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex or national origin.” (13) It defines religion to “include all aspects of religious observance and practice, as well as belief, unless an employer demonstrates that he is unable to reasonably accommodate to an employee’s or prospective employee’s religious observance or practice without undue hardship on the conduct of the employer’s business.” (14) Title VII has been interpreted “to protect against requirements of religious conformity and as such protects those who refuse to hold, as well as those who hold, specific religious beliefs.” (15)

The EEOC, responsible for enforcing Title VII, (16) is required by its own regulations to adopt Title VII’s definition of religion. (17) As Title VII’s definition of religion is circular (religion includes all aspects of religious observance and practice), (18) the EEOC’s regulation further adds that

[i]n most cases whether or not a practice or belief is religious is not at
issue. However, in those cases in which the issue does exist, the
Commission will define religious practices to include moral or ethical
beliefs as to what is right and wrong which are sincerely held with the
strength of traditional religious views. This standard was developed in
United States v. Seeger, 380 U.S. 163 (1965) and Welsh v. United States,
398 U.S. 333 (1970). The Commission has consistently applied this standard
in its decisions. The fact that no religious group espouses such beliefs or
the fact that the religious group to which the individual professes to
belong may not accept such a belief will not determine whether the belief
is a religious belief of the employee or prospective employee. The phrase
“religious practice” as used in these Guidelines includes both religious
observances and practices, as stated in section 701(j), 42 U.S.C. 2000e(j).
(19)

http://blog.hasslberger.com/mt/mt-view.cgi/1/entry/45/print_entry

In 1978, while still a doctoral student at Portland State University in Portland, Oregon, Paul LaViolette made a prediction, which like Einstein’s prediction of the bending of starlight may one day be destined to shake the world. At that time, he was developing a unified field theory called subquantum kinetics. Unlike string theory, which has never made any testable predictions, LaViolette’s subquantum kinetics theory makes several, ten of which have thus far been confirmed. One in particular challenges the most fundamental of physical laws, the law of energy conservation. Subquantum kinetics predicts that a photon’s energy should not remain constant but rather should change with time, that photons traveling through interstellar space or trapped within stars or planets should continually increase in energy, although at a very slow rate. For example, his theory predicts that a photon traveling through our solar system should increase its energy at a rate of somewhat greater than one part in 1018 per second.

While this rate of energy change is far too small to measure in the laboratory, if present it would be extremely significant for astrophysics. Essentially, it would require that astrophysicists scrap all their existing theories on stellar evolution and stellar energy production. Subquantum kinetics predicts that all celestial bodies, whether they be a planet or star should produce energy in their interior. Although the energy excess produced by any given photon each second would be incredibly small, when the cumulative effect of trillions upon trillions of photons inside a planet or star are added up, the amount of energy becomes quite sizable. LaViolette coined the term “genic energy” to refer to this spontaneously created energy.

Thanks to Andrew Michrowski of PACE for sharing this release (PDF) by the Starburst Foundation in Athens, Greece. Read more...

- - -


501 posted on 07/30/2012 8:19:11 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 499 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

I’ll think about his claim that his belief in cold fusion was religious - and their reaction - and will get back to you.


502 posted on 07/30/2012 8:24:24 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 501 | View Replies]

To: Religion Moderator

Scientism per se could be called a belief and therefore would qualify.
***So, is it okay with you if I start a LENR thread under the ‘scientism’ tag?


503 posted on 07/30/2012 8:28:57 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 499 | View Replies]

Comment #504 Removed by Moderator

To: Kevmo
Scientism would have to be YOUR religion to tag it as a "Scientism Caucus" and the article and replies could not speak for any non-Scientism believers.

However, you could tag the RF Scientism thread as "[ecumenical]" and anyone could post but they must not be antagonistic.

505 posted on 07/30/2012 8:35:34 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 503 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

The “no antagonism” rule on Religion Forum threads labeled “ecumenical” applies to all sides. So any statement speaking harshly of another group of Freepers will be pulled, e.g. post 504 for the statement about the anti-LENR crowd.


506 posted on 07/30/2012 8:38:31 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 504 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo; Coyoteman

Both science and religion are systems of rational thought grounded in unproveable, properly basic beliefs.


507 posted on 07/30/2012 8:39:09 PM PDT by reasonisfaith (Why do you seek the living among the dead? (Luke 24:5))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Religion Moderator

oops, I hit ‘post’ too fast...

My last sentence was that perhaps the best perspective to engage is to see that La Violette’s treatment by the patent office as well as the LENR crowd’s treatment on FR threads has been a manifestation of scientism (or anti-scientism, if you prefer).


508 posted on 07/30/2012 8:40:51 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Religion Moderator

Okay, then, here’s the amended post.

To be candid, I think his claim of religiosity for belief in cold fusion is thoroughly bogus. I’m surprised the EEOC accepted the claim. But I do see scientism as a valid religion, and perhaps some of the invective on LENR threads has been along the lines of religiosity.

My aim is to utilize this great bag of tools that you’ve developed, yet again, to reduce the invective on some threads I’ve been involved in.

(Last line removed)


509 posted on 07/30/2012 8:45:36 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 506 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

Will all the various scientific theories be given a sectarian designation, and the proponents’ religion assigned accordingly?


510 posted on 07/30/2012 8:47:28 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 508 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

If that’s important to you, then you can do it, until FR automates the process.


511 posted on 07/30/2012 8:54:51 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 510 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic
At the moment, only "scientISM" qualifies as a belief.

I'm still thinking about the bizarre EEOC decision to accept LENR as a belief. And I'm not inclined to agree with them because accepting a single theory as a belief would open the door to "evolution" or "relativity" or "thermodynamics" and so as beliefs.

512 posted on 07/30/2012 9:00:56 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 510 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
If that’s important to you, then you can do it, until FR automates the process.

I've always believed a person should profess their own religious beliefs, and find the idea of doing it for them abhorrent.

513 posted on 07/30/2012 9:06:11 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 511 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

I think we covered that 4 years ago on this thread. Best wishes in your endeavors.


514 posted on 07/30/2012 9:12:48 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 513 | View Replies]

To: Religion Moderator
I'm still thinking about the bizarre EEOC decision to accept LENR as a belief. And I'm not inclined to agree with them because accepting a single theory as a belief would open the door to "evolution" or "relativity" or "thermodynamics" and so as beliefs.

I can understand being opposed to frivolous claims of religiousity, but I'd think it would be based on something more substantial than inconvenient taxonomy.

515 posted on 07/30/2012 9:14:24 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 512 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

We did. That’s why I was surprised that you would suggest that I would want to do it.


516 posted on 07/30/2012 9:22:04 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 514 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic
The cut for what a religion is on this forum must be a recognizable system of belief, not just a few beliefs. CatholicISM, MormonISM, ProtestantISM incorporate many beliefs. They are easily recognized.

A belief that rain is wet would not qualify as a religion. Neither should a scientific theory, equation, etc.

517 posted on 07/30/2012 9:23:45 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 515 | View Replies]

To: Religion Moderator
The cut for what a religion is on this forum must be a recognizable system of belief, not just a few beliefs. CatholicISM, MormonISM, ProtestantISM incorporate many beliefs. They are easily recognized. A belief that rain is wet would not qualify as a religion. Neither should a scientific theory, equation, etc.

Historically, currently accepted scientific theory on any given subject has always been in flux. There is no equivalent to the defined set of beliefs exhibited by those religions.

518 posted on 07/30/2012 9:32:01 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 517 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

Good point.


519 posted on 07/30/2012 9:35:53 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 518 | View Replies]

Comment #520 Removed by Moderator

To: Kevmo

Odd. I don’t recall ever having used the term “nanny skirt”, in any conversation, with anyone.


521 posted on 07/31/2012 5:07:59 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 520 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
Unless you have some way of getting the mods to go along?

I don't. But note that the moderator has much more work on the proposed "academic" thread. He has, for example, to be able to say if a question has been answered or if a post is off-topic.

522 posted on 07/31/2012 5:13:08 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 495 | View Replies]

To: annalex

Yes, the mods are overworked. All of us see that. They probably need to learn the lesson of Exodus 18:13-15. And also, they could learn from seeing the fruitfulness of peaceful interaction which has taken place due to the religion moderator’s wise approach.


523 posted on 07/31/2012 10:04:22 AM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 522 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

post #469 on this thread


524 posted on 07/31/2012 10:09:43 AM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 521 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

Ah. While you’re “using all the tools in the toolbox”, perhaps try to refrain from opening paint cans with the wood chiesels.


525 posted on 07/31/2012 10:14:44 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 524 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

likewise, prince


526 posted on 07/31/2012 10:19:13 AM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 525 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

meh


527 posted on 07/31/2012 10:21:54 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 526 | View Replies]

To: All; Religion Moderator

Per the religion moderator’s answer to my direct question in post #503 on this thread, I opened a LENR ecumenical thread. The thread is currently locked, under review.

One thing the religion moderator said was, “I am not thrilled that the first scientism ecumenical RF thread would be on such a narrow subject.”
***That is not really the case. I opened up a few scientism ecumenical RF threads a few years ago to discuss evolution, and they were successful. But I was losing interest in evolution at the time due to all the swarming evolutionists. It turned out around that time that JimRob turned his attention to them and they started to leave en masse, having started Darwin Central. Since then, evolution has been a better topic to read on FR. And if anyone wants to see how good of a job the religion moderator is doing, just wander on over to Darwin Central to see the difference.

Scientism: Athanor 2.0: The Hydrotron [ecumenical]
Tuesday, July 31, 2012 9:32:04 AM · 15 of 15
Religion Moderator to Moonman62; Kevmo; BlueDragon
We will see if this works to everyone’s satisfaction.
Scientism, like atheism, can be seen as a religion - a recognizable system of belief. If posted as a caucus, only posters who are currently, actively self-identified members of that belief would be allowed.

The first successful caucus was in fact and atheist caucus.

If there were a scientism caucus then all posters must believe that only that which science can observe exists.

Posted as an “ecumenical” thread, anyone can reply to the scientism article. However, no antagonism is allowed from EITHER side.

Be very cautious.

The Religion Forum tags must not be used as cover to take pot shots at those who do not hold to one’s deeply held beliefs. Mormon posters did that and lost the tagging privilege altogether.

I am not thrilled that the first scientism ecumenical RF thread would be on such a narrow subject. It would have been better for it to be a discussion of scientism per se.

Nevertheless, it is just as valid as having an ecumenical thread on infant baptism - one of a set of beliefs which consitute a recognized religion.

Let’s see how it goes. Discuss the issues from any aspect but do not antagonize one another.

Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies


528 posted on 07/31/2012 10:31:05 AM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 527 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo
Posted as an “ecumenical” thread, anyone can reply to the scientism article. However, no antagonism is allowed from EITHER side.

Who would there be to antagonize? There are no proponents.

529 posted on 07/31/2012 10:39:21 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 528 | View Replies]

To: tacticalogic

Then feel free not to engage, or to engage, as you see fit.


530 posted on 07/31/2012 10:50:24 AM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 529 | View Replies]

To: Kevmo

I don’t see it as fit to engage, so I will pass.


531 posted on 07/31/2012 11:13:54 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 530 | View Replies]

To: All

Religion Moderator’s guidelines now updated:

http://www.freerepublic.com/~religionmoderator/

What qualifies as a “religion” on the Religion Forum.

Neither atheism nor scientism will be considered a religion. Among other things, that means atheists and those who believe in scientism will not be allowed to use Religion Forum tags such as “caucus” or “ecumenical” to prevent antagonism or rebuttal.
Freepers who are atheist or believe in scientism and post on the Religion Forum will be protected from ad hominem attacks just like any other Freeper.


532 posted on 07/31/2012 9:33:51 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 528 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 351-400401-450451-500501-532 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson