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Can FreeRepublic be salvaged? (Birth Cerificate)
none ^ | today | palmer

Posted on 11/15/2008 6:48:02 PM PST by palmer

It's apparent that a combination of fervent believers and a small number of psychopaths and/or infiltrators have dominated the birth certificate discussion. The early evidence was in their favor and everyone should have been skeptical of the low res images on Kos, smears and politifact. The new evidence is not and is not being addressed objectively.

The Certificate

There are photos at FactCheck like the one linked above ( http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg) To the credit of the believers there are a variety of photos at Factcheck that don't all look like the same artifact. Also we know that Factcheck is not an unbiased organization and, even if they are completely innocent, they would believe any lie or forgery given to them by the Obama camp.

But photo #5 (and some of the others) is a genuine photograph of an artifact. It was not created in photoshop. That doesn't mean photoshop was not involved. A plausible set of steps is
1. Scan a real COLB including the border
2. Import into photoshop and change the text to Obama's text
3. Print the result onto the cross hatched paper (could be forged separately)
4. Obtain a embossing seal and apply it to the printout 5. Fold it as if it came from an envelope and display it to the factcheck photographer.

Another plausible scenario is someone in the Hawaii office did all the forging but on the official equipment and using the official seal. Another possibility is someone stole a seal and sold it to a forger. It is certainly possible for a forger to make a seal using the right equipment (probably a laser etcher).

Trip to Kenya

There's no reasonable explanation for why Obama's parents went to Kenya and a good reason they would not: expense. There's no evidence that they went to Kenya except some allegations of testimony. Lawyers like Berg have not been able to present their testimony in court so it can be evaluated. But a recording of a person who allegedly Obama's grandmother saying she was present at his birth in Kenya is not evidence of anything except that someone made a recording of someone saying something.

The Kenya trip meme seemed to turn into an established fact in early July when proposed by null and void and properly ridiculed. Even into November null and void can only repeat her hypothesis (a honeymoon) apparently unwilling or unable to embellish it further.

The Infiltrators

Polarik is an obvious candidate. His rantings on his blog are full of flowery rhetoric against Obama (some is pretty well written) accompanied by the most pathetic attempts at explanations that I have seen in this case. How anyone can mistake him for an expert is beyond me. Using his "analysis" is being used for any legal case is the kiss of death.

Polarik surrounds himself with a number of true believers and useful idiots. The useful idiots are the ones who validate or praise his analysis while obviously not knowing anything about it. The true believers have convinced themselves that Obama was not born in Honolulu and are unable to evaluate the evidence objectively.

In their favor, the true believers have established that Obama has potential Indonesian citizenship (courtesy of Soetoro) as well as potential Kenyan citizenship (courtesy of Obama Sr). These are true regardless of where Obama was born. For the former the Kenyan citizenship would have to be activated by Obama. For the latter, Soetoro would have had to apply to make Obama an Indonesian citizen, it does not happen automatically via adoption.

The bottom line for Polarik is he has yet to address the certificate linked above. He has promised to do this for weeks now and is instead disseminating and repeating his various diatribes against Obama. My guess based on his past behavior is that he will release a rehash of the evidence against the old scan (Kos, smears, politifact) with a bit of new verbiage against the factcheck photos. He will properly point out some oddities in some of the photos while ignoring the obvious salient features in the decent photos such as number 5.

He and I have already argued about the seal (embossing) in number 5 and he claims it is a perfect circle (therefore forged). I showed that it wasn't http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq51/palmer2/circle.jpg and he replied with a very similar result except he used some edge detection first. He obviously just fools with some tools, but doesn't obtain any useful results. When it comes to image analysis he is a dabbler, not an expert.

With cover from his defenders he establishes a "sensitive" personality claiming that he is being ruthlessly attacked. He says that as a result he will stop posting on the certificate issue when he is done with his final writeup. I don't know if that's a real sensitivity or faked, but even if it is faked there are thousands more that will step into his shoes if he disappears.

The End

In the end however, the postings of Polarik are just spam. There were always brouhahas like this on FR and always will be. We survived them before and can survive again. The fact that Polarik's defenders jump on any reasonable poster asking a few skeptical questions is not going to make a big difference to those posters. The fact that 6000 post threads can be constructed without any reasonable explanation of why Obama's parents went to Kenya and without any reasonable analysis of the factcheck photos means lots of people wasted lots of time, but at least it was concentrated in one thread.

That thread and others contain useful nuggets about other Obama problems. There are alternative threads that speak to real evidence although some of those get beaten down by the Polarik army. Polarik's followers also use Freepmail to spread gossip about posters like myself and allegedly (according to them) posted about me on another forum.

That is all good. The more publicity I get on this particular issue, the better. But I remain concerned that FreeRepublic will have the appearance of a conspiracy site because only a rather intensive conspiracy could produce the evidence photographed by Factcheck.

I am also concerned that Factcheck and others might be deliberately planting poor quality evidence in an attempt to hook in the Polariks of the world and their followers. That would not necessarily require a conspiracy although I admit it has the flavor of one. It is to the liberal opposition's benefit to keep as many people on false trails as possible not just to waste their time but to portray them as unhinged. That result was detrimental in the last election and will be detrimental in 2010 and 2012.

IMO of course.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: bc; birthcertificate; certifigate; justreleasethebc; nov; obama; obamagate; obamatransitionfile; proveyouareeligible
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1 posted on 11/15/2008 6:48:03 PM PST by palmer
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To: palmer

This birth certificate nonsense is fool’s bait.


2 posted on 11/15/2008 6:51:14 PM PST by pgkdan ( All Catholics should know supporting Obama constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil.)
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To: palmer

You are aware that FactCheck is BIASED considering the funding behind them and who’s attached to that funding?

And why defend this guy who WON’T produce the birth certificate telling everyone it’s NONE of their business?

That ALONE is suspicious and now there’s evidence that he never signed up with the Selective Service and that is a prosecutable CRIME.


3 posted on 11/15/2008 6:51:40 PM PST by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: palmer

Oh and then there’s the little matter of Obama’s grandmother, and a cousin or two and a step sibling relating the story of BEING THERE in KENYA when he was born.


4 posted on 11/15/2008 6:53:19 PM PST by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: palmer

At first I thought the whole birth certificate issue was a “tin foil hat” kind of thing. But, as time went on and bho went to great lengths to keep it under wraps, it makes you wonder. Who is he and where is he from? He refuses to supply basic information, b.c., college admissions, medical records etc. What good reason would there be to hire a team of lawyers instead of spending the money to get a copy of your birth certificate? It doesnt make sense. And now, it appears selective service registration is also questionable. Do you have any logical answers for all this?


5 posted on 11/15/2008 6:54:49 PM PST by mouse1 (I will fight for my America.)
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To: palmer

Do you have an explanation as to why the Messiah refuses to produce a certified copy of his vault birth certificate? Why spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (already) fighting the revelation of such a document?

Rope-a dope is hard to believe because if he is doing this it shows exceptionally bad management skills.

Do you think he is just having some fun?


6 posted on 11/15/2008 6:55:28 PM PST by 17th Miss Regt
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To: palmer

API, is that you?


7 posted on 11/15/2008 6:57:43 PM PST by bigbob
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To: pgkdan
This birth certificate nonsense is fool’s bait.

I agree. I've been called a troll and told to go back to DU for suggesting as much.

8 posted on 11/15/2008 6:58:07 PM PST by Drew68
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To: pgkdan

The birth certificate issue may be bogus, but it could be that Obama has a valid birth certificate yet not be a natural citizen, heres why:

Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of
Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the child’s birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence. (Quoting from the Alan Keyes lawsuit in California.

That would seem to mean that one could have a validly registered Hawaii birth certificate without being born there. So, Hawaii state officials saying that he has a valid birth certificate does not appear to mean with certainty that he is a “natural born citizen”.

I am not saying that it happened just that it would appear possible. If he’s legit produce the documents, it simple enough to do.


9 posted on 11/15/2008 6:58:11 PM PST by Lawdoc (My dad married my aunt, so now my cousins are my brothers. Go figure.)
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To: palmer

For the useful idiots the USSR had Pravda, for their comrades in America there is FACTCHECK.ORGY Just the name begs suspicion or at very least healthy skepticism.


10 posted on 11/15/2008 6:58:21 PM PST by Binstence (Live Freep or Die)
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To: mouse1

BHO is not of this earth...he is a gift from Heaven...identification papers, school transcipts...medical records...are for mere mortals.


11 posted on 11/15/2008 6:58:38 PM PST by LottieDah (If only those who speak so eloquently on the rights of animals would do so on behalf of the unborn.)
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To: swmobuffalo

The granny testimony carries weight, but where did that story emerge? I haven’t studied the case or the threads enough to find out where and when someone said, or proved, that granny claimed she was present.


12 posted on 11/15/2008 6:59:47 PM PST by BlueStateBlues (Blue State for business, Red State at heart..)
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To: swmobuffalo

My explanation is above. There is an allegation of a recording of someone claiming to be his GM witnessing his birth in Kenya. An allegation of a recording is worthless in court. A recording itself is worthless in court. A sworn and witnessed affidavit will have some value in court.


13 posted on 11/15/2008 6:59:47 PM PST by palmer (Some third party malcontents don't like Palin because she is a true conservative)
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To: swmobuffalo

Unreal. FactCheck is a Soros/Obi front. Incredible.

The Birth Cert? Ask around someone who knows. Europeans, Brits and Africans know he was born in Kenya. It is like a big joke.

Assume I am Obi running for Pres. You ask for proof. Why would I post a COLB instead of my birth certicate (BC)? The COLB proves nothing except I am hiding something.

It is like you asking me for a drivers license and I show you my social security card to prove I have a drivers license.

These idiots bitching about us talking about 3 or more cases to protect The Constitution is a joke. I doubt Keyes, Berg and Leo Donofrio think it is a joke. I think some of us are a little concerned when we see a coup d’eta especially when it happens in our country.

Free Republic, in my mind, is about networking to protect The Constitution and The Republic.

It is not about talking about who won the ball game last night, American Idol or grandpa’s ******* cream corn recipe. Geez.


14 posted on 11/15/2008 7:00:18 PM PST by Frantzie
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To: palmer

There’s no reasonable explanation for why Obama’s parents went to Kenya and a good reason they would not: expense....

I don’t have the timeline so maybe you can enlighten me, but one reason that she could have gone is, she was pregnant and wanted to marry Obama Sr so Barry could have a father.

O senior was married already but could take more than one wife in Kenya but it would be illegal in the US.


15 posted on 11/15/2008 7:00:18 PM PST by Hang'emAll
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To: 17th Miss Regt

Well here is another ball to juggle in the Obama circus. It appears his selective service registration may be forged.

What would be the reason to do such a thing?????

Can’t be President if you didn’t register at the time in question.


16 posted on 11/15/2008 7:00:22 PM PST by RummyChick
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To: 17th Miss Regt

Fact check certifying a COLB is so much nonsense. As I have said many times, the sister has a COLB and she admits she was born in Indonesia..COLBs have nothing to do with the argument at all....You are right that the vault copy is only thing up for debate. COLBs can be obtained just by swearing falsely.


17 posted on 11/15/2008 7:00:51 PM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: palmer

My 12 and your 13 were posted at the exact same second, but you answered the question I posted. Let’s do the timewarp again.


18 posted on 11/15/2008 7:01:10 PM PST by BlueStateBlues (Blue State for business, Red State at heart..)
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To: pgkdan

It keeps the goobers occupied and out of our hair.


19 posted on 11/15/2008 7:01:15 PM PST by MARTIAL MONK
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To: mouse1

I have no explanation of why Obama is fighting this, but do you have evidence that he is? I think the DNC has plenty of lawyers who can get cases like Berg’s tossed out easily with little effort and expense.


20 posted on 11/15/2008 7:01:59 PM PST by palmer (Some third party malcontents don't like Palin because she is a true conservative)
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