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What Good Can a Handgun Do Against an Army.....?
End The War on Freedom ^ | June 18, 2003 | Bill St. Clair

Posted on 08/10/2009 3:48:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

A friend of mine recently forwarded me a question a friend of his had posed: "If/when our Federal Government comes to pilfer, pillage, plunder our property and destroy our lives, what good can a handgun do against an army with advanced weaponry, tanks, missiles, planes, or whatever else they might have at their disposal to achieve their nefarious goals? (I'm not being facetious: I accept the possibility that what happened in Germany, or similar, could happen here; I'm just not sure that the potential good from an armed citizenry in such a situation outweighs the day-to-day problems caused by masses of idiots who own guns.)" If I may, I'd like to try to answer that question. I certainly do not think the writer facetious for asking it. The subject is a serious one that I have given much research and considerable thought to. I believe that upon the answer to this question depends the future of our Constitutional republic, our liberty and perhaps our lives. My friend Aaron Zelman, one of the founders of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, once told me:

"If every Jewish and anti-nazi family in Germany had owned a Mauser rifle and twenty rounds of ammunition AND THE WILL TO USE IT (emphasis supplied, MV), Adolf Hitler would be a little-known footnote to the history of the Weimar Republic."

Note well that phrase: "and the will to use it," for the simply-stated question, "What good can a handgun do against an army?", is in fact a complex one and must be answered at length and carefully. It is a military question. It is also a political question. But above all it is a moral question which strikes to the heart of what makes men free, and what makes them slaves. First, let's answer the military question. Most military questions have both a strategic and a tactical component. Let's consider the tactical.

A friend of mine owns an instructive piece of history. It is a small, crude pistol, made out of sheet-metal stampings by the U.S. during World War II. While it fits in the palm of your hand and is a slowly-operated, single-shot arm, it's powerful .45 caliber projectile will kill a man with brutal efficiency. With a short, smooth-bore barrel it can reliably kill only at point blank ranges, so its use requires the will (brave or foolhardy) to get in close before firing. It is less a soldier's weapon than an assassin's tool. The U.S. manufactured them by the million during the war, not for our own forces but rather to be air-dropped behind German lines to resistance units in occupied Europe. Crude and slow (the fired case had to be knocked out of the breech by means of a little wooden dowel, a fresh round procured from the storage area in the grip and then manually reloaded and cocked) and so wildly inaccurate it couldn't hit the broad side of a French barn at 50 meters, to the Resistance man or woman who had no firearm it still looked pretty darn good. The theory and practice of it was this: First, you approach a German sentry with your little pistol hidden in your coat pocket and, with Academy-award sincerity, ask him for a light for your cigarette (or the time the train leaves for Paris, or if he wants to buy some non-army-issue food or a perhaps half-hour with your "sister"). When he smiles and casts a nervous glance down the street to see where his Sergeant is at, you blow his brains out with your first and only shot, then take his rifle and ammunition. Your next few minutes are occupied with "getting out of Dodge," for such critters generally go around in packs. After that (assuming you evade your late benefactor's friends) you keep the rifle and hand your little pistol to a fellow Resistance fighter so they can go get their own rifle.

Or maybe you then use your rifle to get a submachine gun from the Sergeant when he comes running. Perhaps you get very lucky and pickup a light machine gun, two boxes of ammunition and a haversack of hand grenades. With two of the grenades and the expenditure of a half-a-box of ammunition at a hasty roadblock the next night, you and your friends get a truck full of arms and ammunition. (Some of the cargo is sticky with "Boche" blood, but you don't mind terribly.)

Pretty soon you've got the best armed little maquis unit in your part of France, all from that cheap little pistol and the guts to use it. (One wonders if the current political elite's opposition to so-called "Saturday Night Specials" doesn't come from some adopted racial memory of previous failed tyrants. Even cheap little pistols are a threat to oppressive regimes.)

They called the pistol the "Liberator." Not a bad name, all in all. Now let's consider the strategic aspect of the question, "What good can a handgun do against an army....?" We have seen that even a poor pistol can make a great deal of difference to the military career and postwar plans of one enemy soldier. That's tactical. But consider what a million pistols, or a hundred million pistols (which may approach the actual number of handguns in the U.S. today), can mean to the military planner who seeks to carry out operations against a populace so armed. Mention "Afghanistan" or "Chechnya" to a member of the current Russian military hierarchy and watch them shudder at the bloody memories. Then you begin to get the idea that modern munitions, air superiority and overwhelming, precision-guided violence still are not enough to make victory certain when the targets are not sitting Christmas-present fashion out in the middle of the desert.

I forget the name of the Senator who observed, "You know, a million here and a million there, and pretty soon you're talking about serious money." Consider that there are at least as many firearms--handguns, rifles and shotguns--as there are citizens of the United States. Consider that last year there were more than 14 million Americans who bought licenses to hunt deer in the country. 14 million--that's a number greater than the largest five professional armies in the world combined. Consider also that those deer hunters are not only armed, but they own items of military utility--everything from camouflage clothing to infrared "game finders", Global Positioning System devices and night vision scopes. Consider also that quite a few of these hunters are military veterans. Just as moving around in the woods and stalking game are second nature, military operations are no mystery to them, especially those who were on the receiving end of guerrilla war in Southeast Asia. Indeed, such men, aging though they may be, may be more psychologically prepared for the exigencies of civil war (for this is what we are talking about) than their younger active-duty brother-soldiers whose only military experience involved neatly defined enemies and fronts in the Grand Campaign against Saddam. Not since 1861-1865 has the American military attempted to wage a war athwart its own logistical tail (nor indeed has it ever had to use modern conventional munitions on the Main Streets of its own hometowns and through its' relatives backyards, nor has it tested the obedience of soldiers who took a very different oath with orders to kill their "rebellious" neighbors, but that touches on the political aspect of the question).

But forget the psychological and political for a moment, and consider just the numbers. To paraphrase the Senator, "A million pistols here, a million rifles there, pretty soon you're talking serious firepower." No one, repeat, no one, will conquer America, from within or without, until its citizenry are disarmed. We remain, as a British officer had reason to complain at the start of our Revolution, "a people numerous and armed." The Second Amendment is a political issue today only because of the military reality that underlies it. Politicians who fear the people seek to disarm them. People who fear their government's intentions refuse to be disarmed. The Founders understood this. So, too, does every tyrant who ever lived. Liberty-loving Americans forget it at their peril. Until they do, American gun owners in the aggregate represent a strategic military fact and an impediment to foreign tyranny. They also represent the greatest political challenge to home-grown would-be tyrants. If the people cannot be forcibly disarmed against their will, then they must be persuaded to give up their arms voluntarily. This is the siren song of "gun control," which is to say "government control of all guns," although few self-respecting gun-grabbers such as Charles Schumer would be quite so bold as to phrase it so honestly.

Joseph Stalin, when informed after World War II that the Pope disapproved of Russian troops occupying Trieste, turned to his advisors and asked, "The Pope? The Pope? How many divisions does he have?" Dictators are unmoved by moral suasion. Fortunately, our Founders saw the wisdom of backing the First Amendment up with the Second. The "divisions" of the army of American constitutional liberty get into their cars and drive to work in this country every day to jobs that are hardly military in nature. Most of them are unmindful of the service they provide. Their arms depots may be found in innumerable closets, gunracks and gunsafes. They have no appointed officers, nor will they need any until they are mobilized by events. Such guardians of our liberty perform this service merely by existing. And although they may be an ever-diminishing minority within their own country, as gun ownership is demonized and discouraged by the ruling elites, still they are as yet more than enough to perform their vital task. And if they are unaware of the impediment they present to their would-be rulers, their would-be rulers are painfully aware of these "divisions of liberty", as evidenced by their incessant calls for individual disarmament. They understand moral versus military force just as clearly as Stalin, but they would not be so indelicate as to quote him. The Roman Republic failed because they could not successfully answer the question, "Who Shall Guard the Guards?" The Founders of this Republic answered that question with both the First and Second Amendments. Like Stalin, the Clintonistas could care less what common folk say about them, but the concept of the armed citizenry as guarantors of their own liberties sets their teeth on edge and disturbs their statist sleep. Governments, some great men once avowed, derive their legitimacy from "the consent of the governed." In the country that these men founded, it should not be required to remind anyone that the people do not obtain their natural, God-given liberties by "the consent of the Government." Yet in this century, our once great constitutional republic has been so profaned in the pursuit of power and social engineering by corrupt leaders as to be unrecognizable to the Founders. And in large measure we have ourselves to blame because at each crucial step along the way the usurpers of our liberties have obtained the consent of a majority of the governed to do what they have done, often in the name of "democracy"--a political system rejected by the Founders. Another good friend of mine gave the best description of pure democracy I have ever heard. "Democracy," he concluded, "is three wolves and a sheep sitting down to vote on what to have for dinner." The rights of the sheep in this system are by no means guaranteed.

Now it is true that our present wolf-like, would-be rulers do not as yet seek to eat that sheep and its peaceable wooly cousins (We, the people). They are, however, most desirous that the sheep be shorn of taxes, and if possible and when necessary, be reminded of their rightful place in society as "good citizen sheep" whose safety from the big bad wolves outside their barn doors is only guaranteed by the omni-presence in the barn of the "good wolves" of the government. Indeed, they do not present themselves as wolves at all, but rather these lupines parade around in sheep's clothing, bleating insistently in falsetto about the welfare of the flock and the necessity to surrender liberty and property "for the children", er, ah, I mean "the lambs." In order to ensure future generations of compliant sheep, they are careful to educate the lambs in the way of "political correctness," tutoring them in the totalitarian faiths that "it takes a barnyard to raise a lamb" and "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." Every now and then, some tough old independent-minded ram refuses to be shorn and tries to remind the flock that they once decided affairs themselves according to the rule of law of their ancestors, and without the help of their "betters." When that happens, the fangs become apparent and the conspicuously unwilling are shunned, cowed, driven off or (occasionally) killed. But flashing teeth or not, the majority of the flock has learned over time not to resist the Lupine-Mandarin class which herds it. Their Founders, who were fiercely independent rams, would have long ago chased off such usurpers. Any present members of the flock who think like that are denounced as antediluvian or mentally deranged. There are some of these dissidents the lupines would like to punish, but they dare not--for their teeth are every bit as long as their "betters." Indeed, this is the reason the wolves haven't eaten any sheep in generations. To the wolves chagrin, this portion of the flock is armed and they outnumber the wolves by a considerable margin. For now the wolves are content to watch the numbers of these "armed sheep" diminish, as long teeth are no longer fashionable in polite society. (Indeed, they are considered by the literati to be an anachronism best forgotten and such sheep are dismissed by the Mandarins as "Tooth Nuts" or "Right Leg Fanatics".) When the numbers of armed sheep fall below a level that the wolves can feel safe to do so, the eating will begin. The wolves are patient, and proceed by infinitesimal degrees like the slowly-boiling frog. It took them generations to lull the sheep into accepting them as rulers instead of elected representatives. If it takes another generation or two of sheep to complete the process, the wolves can wait. This is our "Animal Farm," without apology to George Orwell.

Even so, the truth is that one man with a pistol CAN defeat an army, given a righteous cause to fight for, enough determination to risk death for that cause, and enough brains, luck and friends to win the struggle. This is true in war but also in politics, and it is not necessary to be a Prussian militarist to see it. The dirty little secret of today's ruling elite as represented by the Clintonistas is that they want people of conscience and principle to be divided in as many ways as possible ("wedge issues" the consultants call them) so that they may be more easily manipulated. No issue of race, religion, class or economics is left unexploited. Lost in the din of jostling special interests are the few voices who point out that if we refuse to be divided from what truly unites us as a people, we cannot be defeated on the large issues of principle, faith, the constitutional republic and the rule of law. More importantly, woe and ridicule will be heaped upon anyone who points out that like the blustering Wizard of Oz, the federal tax and regulation machine is not as omniscient, omnipotent or fearsome as they would have us believe. Like the Wizard, they fan the scary flames higher and shout, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

For the truth is, they are frightened that we will find out how pitifully few they are compared to the mass of the citizenry they seek to frighten into compliance with their tax collections, property seizures and bureaucratic, unconstitutional power-shifting. I strongly recommend everyone see the new animated movie "A Bug's Life". Simple truths may often be found sheltering beneath unlikely overhangs, there protected from the pelting storm of lies that soak us everyday. "A Bug's Life", a childrens' movie of all things, is just such a place.

The plot revolves around an ant hill on an unnamed island, where the ants placate predatory grasshoppers by offering them each year one-half of the food they gather (sounds a lot like the IRS, right?). Driven to desperation by the insatiable tax demands of the large, fearsome grasshoppers, one enterprising ant goes abroad seeking bug mercenaries who will return with him and defend the anthill when the grasshoppers return. (If this sounds a lot like an animated "Magnificent Seven", you're right.) The grasshoppers (who roar about like some biker gang or perhaps the ATF in black helicopters, take your pick) are, at one point in the movie, lounging around in a "bug cantina" down in Mexico, living off the bounty of the land. The harvest seeds they eat are dispensed one at a time from an upturned bar bottle. Two grasshoppers suggest to their leader, a menacing fellow named "Hopper" (whose voice characterization by Kevin Spacey is suitably evil personified), that they should forget about the poor ants on the island. Here, they say, we can live off the fat of the land, why worry about some upstart ants? Hopper turns on them instantly. "Would you like a seed?" he quietly asks one. "Sure," answers the skeptical grasshopper thug. "Would you like one?" Hopper asks the other. "Yeah," says he. Hopper manipulates the spigot on the bar bottle twice, and distributes the seeds to them.

"So, you want to know why we have to go back to the island, do you?" Hopper asks menacingly as the thugs munch on their seeds. "I'll show you why!" he shouts, removing the cap from the bottle entirely with one quick blow. The seeds, no longer restrained by the cap, respond to gravity and rush out all at once, inundating the two grasshoppers and crushing them. Hopper turns to his remaining fellow grasshoppers and shrieks, "That's why!" I'm paraphrasing from memory here, for I've only seen the movie once. But Hopper then explains, "Don't you remember the upstart ant on that island? They outnumber us a hundred to one. How long do you think we'll last if they ever figure that out?"

"If the ants are not frightened of us," Hopper tells them, "our game is finished. We're finished."

Of course it comes as no surprise that in the end the ants figure that out. Would that liberty-loving Americans were as smart as animated ants. Courage to stand against tyranny, fortunately, is not only found on videotape. Courage flowers from the heart, from the twin roots of deeply-held principle and faith in God. There are American heroes living today who have not yet performed the deeds of principled courage that future history books will record. They have not yet had to stand in the gap, to plug it with their own fragile bodies and lives against the evil that portends. Not yet have they been required to pledge "their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor." Yet they will have to. I believe with all my heart the lesson that history teaches: That each and every generation of Americans is given, along with the liberty and opportunity that is their heritage, the duty to defend America against the tyrannies of their day. Our father's fathers fought this same fight. Our mother's mother's mothers fought it as well. From the Revolution through the world wars, from the Cold War through to the Gulf, they fought to secure their liberty in conflicts great and small, within and without.

They stood faithful to the oath that our Founders gave us: To bear true faith and allegiance--not to a man; not to the land; not to a political party, but to an idea. The idea is liberty, as codified in the Constitution of the United States. We swear, as did they, an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And throughout the years they paid in blood and treasure the terrible price of that oath. That was their day. This is ours. The clouds we can see on the horizon may be a simple rain or a vast hurricane, but there is a storm coming. Make no mistake.

Lincoln said that this nation cannot long exist half slave and half free. I say, if I may humbly paraphrase, that this nation cannot long exist one-third slave, one-third uncommitted, and one-third free. The slavery today is of the mind and soul not the body, but it is slavery without a doubt that the Clintons and their toadies are pushing.

It is slavery to worship our nominally-elected representatives as our rulers instead of requiring their trustworthiness as our servants. It is slavery of the mind and soul that demands that God-given rights that our Forefathers secured with their blood and sacrifice be traded for the false security of a nanny-state which will tend to our "legitimate needs" as they are perceived by that government. It is slavery of a more traditional sort that extorts half of our incomes to pay, like slaves of old, for the privilege of serving and supporting our master's regime.

It is slavery to worship humanism as religion and slavery to deny life and liberty to unborn Americans. As people of faith in God, whatever our denomination, we are in bondage to a plantation system that steals our money; seizes our property; denies our ancient liberties; denies even our very history, supplanting it with sanitized and politicized "correctness"; denies our children a real public education; denies them even the mention of God in school; denies, in fact, the very existence of God.

So finally we are faced with, we must return to, the moral component of the question: "What good can a handgun do against an army?" The answer is "Nothing," or "Everything." The outcome depends upon the mind and heart and soul of the man or woman who holds it. One may also ask, "What good can a sling in the hands of a boy do against a marauding giant?" If your cause is just and righteous much can be done, but only if you are willing to risk the consequences of failure and to bear the burdens of eternal vigilance.

A new friend of mine gave me a plaque the other day. Upon it is written these words by Winston Churchill, a man who knew much about fighting tyranny: "Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." The Spartans at Thermopylae knew this. The fighting Jews of Masada knew this, when every man, woman and child died rather than submit to Roman tyranny. The Texans who died at the Alamo knew this. The frozen patriots of Valley Forge knew this. The "expendable men" of Bataan and Corregidor knew this. If there is one lesson of Hitlerism and the Holocaust, it is that free men, if they wish to remain free, must resist would-be tyrants at the first opportunity and at every opportunity. Remember that whether they the come as conquerors or elected officials, the men who secretly wish to be your murderers must first convince you that you must accept them as your masters. Free men and women must not wait until they are "selected", divided and herded into Warsaw Ghettos, there to finally fight desperately, almost without weapons, and die outnumbered. The tyrant must be met at the door when he appears. At your door, or mine, wherever he shows his bloody appetite. He must be met by the pistol which can defeat an army. He must be met at every door, for in truth we outnumber him and his henchmen. It matters not whether they call themselves Communists or Nazis or something else. It matters not what flag they fly, nor what uniform they wear. It matters not what excuses they give for stealing your liberty, your property or your life. "By their works ye shall know them."

The time is late. Those who once has trouble reading the hour on their watches have no trouble seeing by the glare of the fire at Waco. Few of us realized at the time that the Constitution was burning right along with the Davidians. Now we know better.

We have had the advantage of that horrible illumination for more than five years now--five years in which the rule of law and the battered old parchment of our beloved Constitution have been smashed, shredded and besmirched by the Clintonistas. In this process they have been aided and abetted by the cowardly incompetence of the "opposition" Republican leadership, a fact made crystal clear by the Waco hearings. They have forgotten Daniel Webster's warning: "Miracles do not cluster. Hold on to the Constitution of the United States of America and the Republic for which it stands--what has happened once in six thousand years may never happen again. Hold on to your Constitution, for if the American Constitution shall fail there will be anarchy throughout the world." Yet being able to see what has happened has not helped us reverse, or even slow, the process. The sad fact is that we may have to resign ourselves to the prospect of having to maintain our principles and our liberty in the face of becoming a disenfranchised minority within our own country. The middle third of the populace, it seems, will continue to waffle in favor of the enemies of the Constitution until their comfort level with the economy is endangered. They've got theirs, Jack. The Republicans, who we thought could represent our interests and protect the Constitution and the rule of law, have been demonstrated to be political eunuchs. Alan Keyes was dead right when he characterized the last election as one between "the lawless Democrats and the gutless Republicans." The spectacular political failures of our current leaders are unrivaled in our history unless you recall the unprincipled jockeying for position and tragi-comedy of misunderstanding and miscommunication which lead to our first Civil War.

And make no mistake, it is civil war which may be the most horrible corollary of the Law of Unintended Consequences as it applies to the Clintonistas and their destruction of the rule of law. Because such people have no cause for which they are willing to die (all morality being relativistic to them, and all principles compromisable), they cannot fathom the motives or behavior of people who believe that there are some principles worth fighting and dying for. Out of such failures of understanding come wars. Particularly because although such elitists would not risk their own necks in a fight, they have no compunction about ordering others in their pay to fight for them. It is not the deaths of others, but their own deaths, that they fear. As a Christian, I cannot fear my own death, but rather I am commanded by my God to live in such a way as to make my death a homecoming. That this makes me incomprehensible and threatening to those who wish to be my masters is something I can do little about. I would suggest to them that they not poke their godless, tyrannical noses down my alley. As the coiled rattlesnake flag of the Revolution bluntly stated: "Don't Tread on Me!" Or, as our state motto here in Alabama says: "We Dare Defend Our Rights."

But can a handgun defeat an army? Yes. It remains to be seen whether the struggle of our generation against the tyrants of our day in the first decade of the 21st Century will bring a restoration of liberty and the rule of law or a dark and bloody descent into chaos and slavery. If it is to be the former, I will meet you at the new Yorktown. If it is to be the latter, I will meet you at Masada. But I will not be a slave. And I know that whether we succeed or fail, if we should fall along the way, our graves will one day be visited by other free Americans, thanking us that we did not forget that, with help of Almighty God, in the hands of a free man a handgun CAN defeat a tyrant's army.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
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101 posted on 08/13/2009 7:30:56 AM PDT by restornu (Raw Global News you decide http://www.globalpost.com/)
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To: Maelstorm
I think you're wrong.....soldiers are govt employees....employees that enjoy superior benefits and pay, compared to similar civilian jobs (a fact) with a nice early pension waiting for them....

they will follow orders.....

as in Russia or any dictatorship......when you have the job, the money, the prestige.....you stick with the dictator.....

102 posted on 08/13/2009 10:01:46 PM PDT by cherry
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To: cherry
"I think you're wrong.....soldiers are govt employees....employees that enjoy superior benefits and pay, compared to similar civilian jobs (a fact) with a nice early pension waiting for them....

they will follow orders.....

as in Russia or any dictatorship......when you have the job, the money, the prestige.....you stick with the dictator....."

Hate to ask this, but have you ever spent any time in uniform? I made $397/month (gross pay) when I went active duty (1978) and I daresay I could've made a lot more in the private sector or civil service. Yes, medical & dental were free, but at 18 years old, what need do you have for much of that? Free room and board, of course, but you wouldn't have liked to live like I did, especially in Korea (picture Gomer Pyle's barracks, but not that nice), and the food was maybe a step or two above a low grade community college or prison cafeteria, with a few exceptions. Oh, and there's that little detail of getting killed at work, that most people (except police and fire fighters) don't have to worry much about. Believe me, they earn EVERY PENNY of that "superior benefits and pay" that you referenced. As to whether the will blindly follow orders to shoot their fellow citizens? Sure, some might, but they risk being shot by their fellow soldiers, as well as the civilians. I would guesstimate that 10-20% will do whatever they're told and another 10% can be brow-beaten into it, but that leaves the vast majority in defiance of orders: What then?

103 posted on 08/13/2009 10:21:09 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (If we're an Empire, why are Cuba, Iraq, Philippines, Japan & Germany independent?)
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To: Maelstorm

Of course I can’t speak for everyone, but our CBITS training on such PC things as “DoD Policy on Homosexuals in the Military” is met with, ahem, a bit of humor.

Also, for others concerned with where the military stands, we know our oath, we won’t go against it. I’ve said it many times here, others have too but we swear in our oath of service;

“....that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”

We don’t swear allegiance to a party or person. We understand our oath. We know also where it might lead.


104 posted on 08/13/2009 11:19:46 PM PDT by yankeebulldog ("Semper Viper!")
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To: cherry

I’m not so certain. The military is far more conservative than the general population. The military worldwide has shown a willingness to depose out of control leaders. I think if the rubber hit the road that we could certainly trust the majority of our military to side with the people. It does trouble me when I see national guard members being sent in to disarm otherwise law abiding citizens such as after Katrina. I am still an optimist where the military is concerned. There are bad eggs in every basket but I hold our military in high regard.


105 posted on 08/13/2009 11:42:57 PM PDT by Maelstorm (Socialism is the refuge of people who don't respect their fellow citizens enough to ask for help.)
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To: rbg81
I bet if it ever comes to the Army against private (conservative) citizens, all the rules & squeemishness regarding collateral damage will go out the window.

In that scenario I bet the Army turns it's guns on the masters.
106 posted on 08/13/2009 11:56:31 PM PDT by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Reqiescat in Pace)
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To: Maelstorm

BINGO!


107 posted on 08/21/2009 2:10:42 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (If we're an Empire, why are Cuba, Iraq, Philippines, Japan & Germany independent?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Without being flippant about this, the police generally just leave gang areas alone. The fight’s not worth it.


108 posted on 08/21/2009 2:13:32 PM PDT by Richard Kimball (We're all criminals. They just haven't figured out what some of us have done yet.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
“If every Jewish and anti-nazi family in Germany had owned a Mauser rifle and twenty rounds of ammunition AND THE WILL TO USE IT (emphasis supplied, MV), Adolf Hitler would be a little-known footnote to the history of the Weimar Republic.”

Dunno ‘bout that.
There is more to fighting than owning a weapon and ammo. Regular armies regularly defeat MUCH larger groups of irregulars, especially if they're stupid enough to meet them in open battle.
There is a lot to be said for organization and training, not to mention artillery.

109 posted on 08/21/2009 2:19:25 PM PDT by Little Ray (Obama is a kamikaze president aimed at the heart of this Republic.)
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To: RKV
The problem with France and the French, and I speak the language and have been to school there, is that the best of them got killed in WW1, and WW2. The ones that were left to breed included some beautiful women, but the men, well, they’re short on some qualities.

That's the problem with the human species..unlike the animal species who do the opposite....we kill off our best and allow the weak to breed!

110 posted on 08/21/2009 2:34:54 PM PDT by RVN Airplane Driver ("To be born into freedom is an accident; to die in freedom is an obligation..)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

In the small mid-western towns the NG would not turn on the people, but more than likely join the resistence. With them comes their weapons.

Two million combat troops against a hundred million armed Americans is no match.


111 posted on 08/25/2009 8:10:07 AM PDT by stockpirate
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To: All

“A people unwilling to use extreme violent force to preserve or obtain their liberty deserves the tyrants that rule them.”


112 posted on 08/25/2009 8:11:12 AM PDT by stockpirate
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Google “shoot twice and go home”.
It’s the reason Switzerland was the only country not invaded in WWII.


113 posted on 08/25/2009 8:14:24 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (flag@whitehouse.gov may bounce messages but copies may be kept. Informants are still solicited.)
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Or for the last 800 years, now that I think of it.


114 posted on 08/25/2009 8:14:52 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (flag@whitehouse.gov may bounce messages but copies may be kept. Informants are still solicited.)
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To: PIF

18,000,000 deer hunters. ‘nuff said.


115 posted on 08/25/2009 8:24:26 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (flag@whitehouse.gov may bounce messages but copies may be kept. Informants are still solicited.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

A lot of that has changed, because of the Jessica Lynch thing and from the various “soft skills” jobs seeing more combat in some cases than a lot of line units. Warrior tasks and drills are trained far more intensely than ever before. A lot of Infantry NCOs were farmed out to places like Jackson and Sill in order to train the trainers on Infantry tactics.

I’m not saying the chicks are as good as the line guys, but they’re a LOT more prepared than Lynch and her ilk were.


116 posted on 08/25/2009 8:28:36 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater ("Get out of the boat and walk on the water with us!”--Sen. Joe Biden)
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To: Terry Mross

In Red Dawn they were fighting a foreign invading army. Some here seem to have little faith in the dedication to and understanding of the Constitution or intelligence of the people in our military.


117 posted on 08/25/2009 8:38:23 AM PDT by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

BTTT


118 posted on 08/25/2009 8:39:56 AM PDT by EdReform (The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed *NRA*JPFO*SAF*GOA*SAS*CCRKBA)
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To: ctdonath2

vs. one Warthog?


119 posted on 08/25/2009 4:50:44 PM PDT by PIF
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To: PIF
Pilot has to get out at some point.

vs. one deer huntersniper?

120 posted on 08/25/2009 5:40:45 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (flag@whitehouse.gov may bounce messages but copies may be kept. Informants are still solicited.)
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To: ctdonath2

Hummm that work if you know were his landing spot is and it has nice brush cover all around with no guard patrols and no electroinc sensors are guarding the perimeter - and our sniper doesm’t happen to pick the exact spot the Warhog pilot picks to drop unused ordiance like napalm... but then I digress

: )


121 posted on 08/25/2009 5:55:38 PM PDT by PIF
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To: PIF

1000-yard shots aren’t all that hard.


122 posted on 08/25/2009 7:25:59 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (flag@whitehouse.gov may bounce messages but copies may be kept. Informants are still solicited.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Armies beat armies, insurgents beat politicians.

The anoswer is yes.


123 posted on 08/27/2009 7:22:32 AM PDT by texmexis best (uencynd no)
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Comment #124 Removed by Moderator

To: PIF
vs. one Warthog?

I wonder if Dick Morris could calculate and incumbent's chances of re-election
after wiping out a suburban neighborhood to get one house with resistor in it?

He's good but not that good.

125 posted on 08/29/2009 6:42:35 PM PDT by TigersEye (0bama: "I can see Mecca from the WH portico." --- Google - Cloward-Piven Strategy)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; Jeff Head; Liz
"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

The Spartans at Thermopylae knew this. The fighting Jews of Masada knew this, when every man, woman and child died rather than submit to Roman tyranny. The Texans who died at the Alamo knew this. The frozen patriots of Valley Forge knew this. The "expendable men" of Bataan and Corregidor knew this. If there is one lesson of Hitlerism and the Holocaust, it is that free men, if they wish to remain free, must resist would-be tyrants at the first opportunity and at every opportunity. Remember that whether they the come as conquerors or elected officials, the men who secretly wish to be your murderers must first convince you that you must accept them as your masters. Free men and women must not wait until they are "selected", divided and herded into Warsaw Ghettos, there to finally fight desperately, almost without weapons, and die outnumbered. The tyrant must be met at the door when he appears. At your door, or mine, wherever he shows his bloody appetite. He must be met by the pistol which can defeat an army. He must be met at every door, for in truth we outnumber him and his henchmen.

May it never come to this in our country ---

126 posted on 08/29/2009 6:58:20 PM PDT by GOPJ (CT Scan in Canada? Vet clinics can get a dog in next day. People? Waitinglist is a month.STOSSEL)
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To: Prole
I really don't think the US government agents are going door to door taking our firearms away from us.

Who was it that carried out the post-Katrina gun confiscations in NO? (Sorry, I don't recall exactly which agencies were involved.) While they may not have been done by federal agents, gun confiscations did happen.

127 posted on 08/29/2009 7:06:11 PM PDT by Bob
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To: GOPJ; Noumenon; Lurker; Travis McGee; Eaker; Squantos
Here's two other similar articles I have always liked:

FREEDOM'S LAST STAND - ARE YOU WILLING TO FIGHT FOR YOUR GUNS

LET NO QUARTER BE GIVEN

128 posted on 08/29/2009 8:09:16 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head

“We mock honor, and are shocked to find traitors in our midst.” C.S. Elliot


129 posted on 08/29/2009 8:47:45 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Squantos

Everything is a weapon.

The fight’s not over.

Two simple rules...


130 posted on 08/29/2009 9:10:05 PM PDT by Noumenon (Work that AQT - turn ammunition into skill. No tyrant can maintain a 300 yard perimeter forever.)
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To: Jeff Head

Jeff, you should republish your “The Use of Force in Defense of Liberty” - a well-reasoned and superb piece of work.


131 posted on 08/29/2009 9:11:18 PM PDT by Noumenon (Work that AQT - turn ammunition into skill. No tyrant can maintain a 300 yard perimeter forever.)
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To: Noumenon; Lurker

THE USE OF FORCE IN DEFENSE OF LIBERTY

132 posted on 08/29/2009 10:26:19 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: TigersEye

Poor ol’ Dick - he’d be busy trying to calculate something which would never happen - once such stuff begins, there are no elections for anything nationally - the presumed incumbent, Husssein, would have assumed the role of tryant - a position for which there is no electoral process.

One resistor means nothing - it’s the hundreds of thousands which would constitute any meaningful resistance. The local police would take care of the one here and the one there. Who takes care of the masses of resistors? Mr. Warthog...


133 posted on 08/30/2009 5:06:09 AM PDT by PIF
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To: PIF
Who takes care of the masses of resistors? Mr. Warthog...

...don't forget the B-52s carpet bombing towns and cities across the land.

134 posted on 08/30/2009 9:18:13 AM PDT by TigersEye (0bama: "I can see Mecca from the WH portico." --- Google - Cloward-Piven Strategy)
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To: TigersEye
O Right! With napalm no less! I was just going for a minimalist scenario...
135 posted on 08/30/2009 10:35:07 AM PDT by PIF
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

but... but.... the whales.


136 posted on 08/31/2009 11:00:01 PM PDT by PureSolace (Trust in God)
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To: sauropod

home


137 posted on 09/01/2009 7:59:27 AM PDT by sauropod (People who do things are people that get things done.)
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To: Lurker
C.S. Elliot

I believe that was C.S. Lewis, not T.S. Elliot (or the guy you mentioned either!)

138 posted on 09/01/2009 8:01:33 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Play the Race Card -- lose the game.)
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To: jwalsh07

“With a handgun against an Army you can die like a man, with a vigorous second amendment and a citizenry armed as the founders intended you can live like a man.”

I was just preparing to say... What handgun..

Hell I am better armed then most ground pounders. Don’t have a select fire weapon but I have a couple of shotguns, an Rock River AR15, an SKS M59, and a Winchester Model 70 30-06. That’s before we even get to the handguns.

I really don’t think we have much to fear from the Army beung turned on us but I stand prepared.


139 posted on 09/01/2009 8:41:11 AM PDT by Syntyr (If its too loud your too old...)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Oh, and there's that little detail of getting killed at work, that most people (except police and fire fighters) don't have to worry much about.

Thank you for your service.
140 posted on 09/01/2009 9:31:39 AM PDT by Canedawg (FUBO)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver

“we kill off our best and allow the weak to breed”

Used to be the winners got the women.


141 posted on 09/01/2009 5:23:49 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: waiyu

ping for later


142 posted on 09/03/2009 2:57:20 AM PDT by waiyu (Republicans: We're like Democrats, just spelled different.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

ping.


143 posted on 09/03/2009 3:04:59 AM PDT by BigCinBigD ('Evil white devil since 1960')
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To: Noumenon

Everything is a weapon..............................

.
.
Most buildings in the US can be reduced to rubble with nothing more than a screwdriver and an Alabama speed-wrench.


144 posted on 09/03/2009 5:27:24 AM PDT by wrench
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To: wrench

All right - I give up. What’s an Alabama speed-wrench?


145 posted on 09/03/2009 6:13:38 AM PDT by Noumenon (Work that AQT - turn ammunition into skill. No tyrant can maintain a 300 yard perimeter forever.)
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To: Syntyr
I was just preparing to say... What handgun.

I'm with you. The handgun is for use only if the rifle ammo is depleted, or CQB is in order. It is amazing the firepower in the hands of the American citizenry, as in former military and military-type rifles. Between M1 Garands, M1As (civilian M14s), 30 carbines, and AR-15s, just to name a few, us "deerhunters" would pose a formidable threat to any invasion (foreign or domestic). I knew someone who had a Remington 7400 semi-auto "deer rifle" in 30-06, and with 30 round mags available, it made the M1 Garand look like a piker.

146 posted on 09/03/2009 6:33:54 AM PDT by SpeedRacer (Where's your records, B-HO? What are you hiding?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

bttt, AWESOME!


147 posted on 09/03/2009 6:34:14 AM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: dsc
Winners are not interested in the willing female breeders.
148 posted on 09/03/2009 6:37:14 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Nemo me impune lacessit The law will be followed, dammit!)
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To: TigersEye
The May 1997 Report of the Quadrennial Defense Review (QDR), prescribed a total fleet of 187 bombers (95 B-1, 21 B-2, and 71 B-52). Since the QDR, two B-1s had been lost in peacetime accidents. However, the Report of the Panel to Review Long-Range Air Power (LRAP) concluded the existing bomber fleet cannot be sustained through the expected life of the air frames and that additional aircraft will eventually be required. To address this issue, the Air Force will add five additional B-52 attrition reserve aircraft, bringing the B-52 total from 71 to 76 for a total bomber force of 190. The B-52 fleet will remain the same with 44 combat-coded aircraft.

Not enough BUFFS left to mount a good run even during VN.

149 posted on 09/03/2009 6:41:31 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Nemo me impune lacessit The law will be followed, dammit!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

i recently watche the movie “Defiance” with Daniel Craig about Russian Jews being hunted down and executed by the Germans during WW2.

And it makes me wonder if thats what America will become, families being hunted down for profit. Or targeted for refusals to follow pogroms, lets just theorize a possible scenario that any children missing from school on the 8th is reported to a data base and those families are now being given a red flag of dissension?

There will be the day.....

When The Cattle used the Prod against the Rancher

We America must not be herded as cattle, we must stampede now or we will become next weeks dinner.


150 posted on 09/03/2009 6:53:49 AM PDT by Eye of Unk ("If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
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