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What Good Can a Handgun Do Against an Army.....?
End The War on Freedom ^ | June 18, 2003 | Bill St. Clair

Posted on 08/10/2009 3:48:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

A friend of mine recently forwarded me a question a friend of his had posed: "If/when our Federal Government comes to pilfer, pillage, plunder our property and destroy our lives, what good can a handgun do against an army with advanced weaponry, tanks, missiles, planes, or whatever else they might have at their disposal to achieve their nefarious goals? (I'm not being facetious: I accept the possibility that what happened in Germany, or similar, could happen here; I'm just not sure that the potential good from an armed citizenry in such a situation outweighs the day-to-day problems caused by masses of idiots who own guns.)" If I may, I'd like to try to answer that question. I certainly do not think the writer facetious for asking it. The subject is a serious one that I have given much research and considerable thought to. I believe that upon the answer to this question depends the future of our Constitutional republic, our liberty and perhaps our lives. My friend Aaron Zelman, one of the founders of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, once told me:

"If every Jewish and anti-nazi family in Germany had owned a Mauser rifle and twenty rounds of ammunition AND THE WILL TO USE IT (emphasis supplied, MV), Adolf Hitler would be a little-known footnote to the history of the Weimar Republic."

Note well that phrase: "and the will to use it," for the simply-stated question, "What good can a handgun do against an army?", is in fact a complex one and must be answered at length and carefully. It is a military question. It is also a political question. But above all it is a moral question which strikes to the heart of what makes men free, and what makes them slaves. First, let's answer the military question. Most military questions have both a strategic and a tactical component. Let's consider the tactical.

A friend of mine owns an instructive piece of history. It is a small, crude pistol, made out of sheet-metal stampings by the U.S. during World War II. While it fits in the palm of your hand and is a slowly-operated, single-shot arm, it's powerful .45 caliber projectile will kill a man with brutal efficiency. With a short, smooth-bore barrel it can reliably kill only at point blank ranges, so its use requires the will (brave or foolhardy) to get in close before firing. It is less a soldier's weapon than an assassin's tool. The U.S. manufactured them by the million during the war, not for our own forces but rather to be air-dropped behind German lines to resistance units in occupied Europe. Crude and slow (the fired case had to be knocked out of the breech by means of a little wooden dowel, a fresh round procured from the storage area in the grip and then manually reloaded and cocked) and so wildly inaccurate it couldn't hit the broad side of a French barn at 50 meters, to the Resistance man or woman who had no firearm it still looked pretty darn good. The theory and practice of it was this: First, you approach a German sentry with your little pistol hidden in your coat pocket and, with Academy-award sincerity, ask him for a light for your cigarette (or the time the train leaves for Paris, or if he wants to buy some non-army-issue food or a perhaps half-hour with your "sister"). When he smiles and casts a nervous glance down the street to see where his Sergeant is at, you blow his brains out with your first and only shot, then take his rifle and ammunition. Your next few minutes are occupied with "getting out of Dodge," for such critters generally go around in packs. After that (assuming you evade your late benefactor's friends) you keep the rifle and hand your little pistol to a fellow Resistance fighter so they can go get their own rifle.

Or maybe you then use your rifle to get a submachine gun from the Sergeant when he comes running. Perhaps you get very lucky and pickup a light machine gun, two boxes of ammunition and a haversack of hand grenades. With two of the grenades and the expenditure of a half-a-box of ammunition at a hasty roadblock the next night, you and your friends get a truck full of arms and ammunition. (Some of the cargo is sticky with "Boche" blood, but you don't mind terribly.)

Pretty soon you've got the best armed little maquis unit in your part of France, all from that cheap little pistol and the guts to use it. (One wonders if the current political elite's opposition to so-called "Saturday Night Specials" doesn't come from some adopted racial memory of previous failed tyrants. Even cheap little pistols are a threat to oppressive regimes.)

They called the pistol the "Liberator." Not a bad name, all in all. Now let's consider the strategic aspect of the question, "What good can a handgun do against an army....?" We have seen that even a poor pistol can make a great deal of difference to the military career and postwar plans of one enemy soldier. That's tactical. But consider what a million pistols, or a hundred million pistols (which may approach the actual number of handguns in the U.S. today), can mean to the military planner who seeks to carry out operations against a populace so armed. Mention "Afghanistan" or "Chechnya" to a member of the current Russian military hierarchy and watch them shudder at the bloody memories. Then you begin to get the idea that modern munitions, air superiority and overwhelming, precision-guided violence still are not enough to make victory certain when the targets are not sitting Christmas-present fashion out in the middle of the desert.

I forget the name of the Senator who observed, "You know, a million here and a million there, and pretty soon you're talking about serious money." Consider that there are at least as many firearms--handguns, rifles and shotguns--as there are citizens of the United States. Consider that last year there were more than 14 million Americans who bought licenses to hunt deer in the country. 14 million--that's a number greater than the largest five professional armies in the world combined. Consider also that those deer hunters are not only armed, but they own items of military utility--everything from camouflage clothing to infrared "game finders", Global Positioning System devices and night vision scopes. Consider also that quite a few of these hunters are military veterans. Just as moving around in the woods and stalking game are second nature, military operations are no mystery to them, especially those who were on the receiving end of guerrilla war in Southeast Asia. Indeed, such men, aging though they may be, may be more psychologically prepared for the exigencies of civil war (for this is what we are talking about) than their younger active-duty brother-soldiers whose only military experience involved neatly defined enemies and fronts in the Grand Campaign against Saddam. Not since 1861-1865 has the American military attempted to wage a war athwart its own logistical tail (nor indeed has it ever had to use modern conventional munitions on the Main Streets of its own hometowns and through its' relatives backyards, nor has it tested the obedience of soldiers who took a very different oath with orders to kill their "rebellious" neighbors, but that touches on the political aspect of the question).

But forget the psychological and political for a moment, and consider just the numbers. To paraphrase the Senator, "A million pistols here, a million rifles there, pretty soon you're talking serious firepower." No one, repeat, no one, will conquer America, from within or without, until its citizenry are disarmed. We remain, as a British officer had reason to complain at the start of our Revolution, "a people numerous and armed." The Second Amendment is a political issue today only because of the military reality that underlies it. Politicians who fear the people seek to disarm them. People who fear their government's intentions refuse to be disarmed. The Founders understood this. So, too, does every tyrant who ever lived. Liberty-loving Americans forget it at their peril. Until they do, American gun owners in the aggregate represent a strategic military fact and an impediment to foreign tyranny. They also represent the greatest political challenge to home-grown would-be tyrants. If the people cannot be forcibly disarmed against their will, then they must be persuaded to give up their arms voluntarily. This is the siren song of "gun control," which is to say "government control of all guns," although few self-respecting gun-grabbers such as Charles Schumer would be quite so bold as to phrase it so honestly.

Joseph Stalin, when informed after World War II that the Pope disapproved of Russian troops occupying Trieste, turned to his advisors and asked, "The Pope? The Pope? How many divisions does he have?" Dictators are unmoved by moral suasion. Fortunately, our Founders saw the wisdom of backing the First Amendment up with the Second. The "divisions" of the army of American constitutional liberty get into their cars and drive to work in this country every day to jobs that are hardly military in nature. Most of them are unmindful of the service they provide. Their arms depots may be found in innumerable closets, gunracks and gunsafes. They have no appointed officers, nor will they need any until they are mobilized by events. Such guardians of our liberty perform this service merely by existing. And although they may be an ever-diminishing minority within their own country, as gun ownership is demonized and discouraged by the ruling elites, still they are as yet more than enough to perform their vital task. And if they are unaware of the impediment they present to their would-be rulers, their would-be rulers are painfully aware of these "divisions of liberty", as evidenced by their incessant calls for individual disarmament. They understand moral versus military force just as clearly as Stalin, but they would not be so indelicate as to quote him. The Roman Republic failed because they could not successfully answer the question, "Who Shall Guard the Guards?" The Founders of this Republic answered that question with both the First and Second Amendments. Like Stalin, the Clintonistas could care less what common folk say about them, but the concept of the armed citizenry as guarantors of their own liberties sets their teeth on edge and disturbs their statist sleep. Governments, some great men once avowed, derive their legitimacy from "the consent of the governed." In the country that these men founded, it should not be required to remind anyone that the people do not obtain their natural, God-given liberties by "the consent of the Government." Yet in this century, our once great constitutional republic has been so profaned in the pursuit of power and social engineering by corrupt leaders as to be unrecognizable to the Founders. And in large measure we have ourselves to blame because at each crucial step along the way the usurpers of our liberties have obtained the consent of a majority of the governed to do what they have done, often in the name of "democracy"--a political system rejected by the Founders. Another good friend of mine gave the best description of pure democracy I have ever heard. "Democracy," he concluded, "is three wolves and a sheep sitting down to vote on what to have for dinner." The rights of the sheep in this system are by no means guaranteed.

Now it is true that our present wolf-like, would-be rulers do not as yet seek to eat that sheep and its peaceable wooly cousins (We, the people). They are, however, most desirous that the sheep be shorn of taxes, and if possible and when necessary, be reminded of their rightful place in society as "good citizen sheep" whose safety from the big bad wolves outside their barn doors is only guaranteed by the omni-presence in the barn of the "good wolves" of the government. Indeed, they do not present themselves as wolves at all, but rather these lupines parade around in sheep's clothing, bleating insistently in falsetto about the welfare of the flock and the necessity to surrender liberty and property "for the children", er, ah, I mean "the lambs." In order to ensure future generations of compliant sheep, they are careful to educate the lambs in the way of "political correctness," tutoring them in the totalitarian faiths that "it takes a barnyard to raise a lamb" and "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." Every now and then, some tough old independent-minded ram refuses to be shorn and tries to remind the flock that they once decided affairs themselves according to the rule of law of their ancestors, and without the help of their "betters." When that happens, the fangs become apparent and the conspicuously unwilling are shunned, cowed, driven off or (occasionally) killed. But flashing teeth or not, the majority of the flock has learned over time not to resist the Lupine-Mandarin class which herds it. Their Founders, who were fiercely independent rams, would have long ago chased off such usurpers. Any present members of the flock who think like that are denounced as antediluvian or mentally deranged. There are some of these dissidents the lupines would like to punish, but they dare not--for their teeth are every bit as long as their "betters." Indeed, this is the reason the wolves haven't eaten any sheep in generations. To the wolves chagrin, this portion of the flock is armed and they outnumber the wolves by a considerable margin. For now the wolves are content to watch the numbers of these "armed sheep" diminish, as long teeth are no longer fashionable in polite society. (Indeed, they are considered by the literati to be an anachronism best forgotten and such sheep are dismissed by the Mandarins as "Tooth Nuts" or "Right Leg Fanatics".) When the numbers of armed sheep fall below a level that the wolves can feel safe to do so, the eating will begin. The wolves are patient, and proceed by infinitesimal degrees like the slowly-boiling frog. It took them generations to lull the sheep into accepting them as rulers instead of elected representatives. If it takes another generation or two of sheep to complete the process, the wolves can wait. This is our "Animal Farm," without apology to George Orwell.

Even so, the truth is that one man with a pistol CAN defeat an army, given a righteous cause to fight for, enough determination to risk death for that cause, and enough brains, luck and friends to win the struggle. This is true in war but also in politics, and it is not necessary to be a Prussian militarist to see it. The dirty little secret of today's ruling elite as represented by the Clintonistas is that they want people of conscience and principle to be divided in as many ways as possible ("wedge issues" the consultants call them) so that they may be more easily manipulated. No issue of race, religion, class or economics is left unexploited. Lost in the din of jostling special interests are the few voices who point out that if we refuse to be divided from what truly unites us as a people, we cannot be defeated on the large issues of principle, faith, the constitutional republic and the rule of law. More importantly, woe and ridicule will be heaped upon anyone who points out that like the blustering Wizard of Oz, the federal tax and regulation machine is not as omniscient, omnipotent or fearsome as they would have us believe. Like the Wizard, they fan the scary flames higher and shout, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

For the truth is, they are frightened that we will find out how pitifully few they are compared to the mass of the citizenry they seek to frighten into compliance with their tax collections, property seizures and bureaucratic, unconstitutional power-shifting. I strongly recommend everyone see the new animated movie "A Bug's Life". Simple truths may often be found sheltering beneath unlikely overhangs, there protected from the pelting storm of lies that soak us everyday. "A Bug's Life", a childrens' movie of all things, is just such a place.

The plot revolves around an ant hill on an unnamed island, where the ants placate predatory grasshoppers by offering them each year one-half of the food they gather (sounds a lot like the IRS, right?). Driven to desperation by the insatiable tax demands of the large, fearsome grasshoppers, one enterprising ant goes abroad seeking bug mercenaries who will return with him and defend the anthill when the grasshoppers return. (If this sounds a lot like an animated "Magnificent Seven", you're right.) The grasshoppers (who roar about like some biker gang or perhaps the ATF in black helicopters, take your pick) are, at one point in the movie, lounging around in a "bug cantina" down in Mexico, living off the bounty of the land. The harvest seeds they eat are dispensed one at a time from an upturned bar bottle. Two grasshoppers suggest to their leader, a menacing fellow named "Hopper" (whose voice characterization by Kevin Spacey is suitably evil personified), that they should forget about the poor ants on the island. Here, they say, we can live off the fat of the land, why worry about some upstart ants? Hopper turns on them instantly. "Would you like a seed?" he quietly asks one. "Sure," answers the skeptical grasshopper thug. "Would you like one?" Hopper asks the other. "Yeah," says he. Hopper manipulates the spigot on the bar bottle twice, and distributes the seeds to them.

"So, you want to know why we have to go back to the island, do you?" Hopper asks menacingly as the thugs munch on their seeds. "I'll show you why!" he shouts, removing the cap from the bottle entirely with one quick blow. The seeds, no longer restrained by the cap, respond to gravity and rush out all at once, inundating the two grasshoppers and crushing them. Hopper turns to his remaining fellow grasshoppers and shrieks, "That's why!" I'm paraphrasing from memory here, for I've only seen the movie once. But Hopper then explains, "Don't you remember the upstart ant on that island? They outnumber us a hundred to one. How long do you think we'll last if they ever figure that out?"

"If the ants are not frightened of us," Hopper tells them, "our game is finished. We're finished."

Of course it comes as no surprise that in the end the ants figure that out. Would that liberty-loving Americans were as smart as animated ants. Courage to stand against tyranny, fortunately, is not only found on videotape. Courage flowers from the heart, from the twin roots of deeply-held principle and faith in God. There are American heroes living today who have not yet performed the deeds of principled courage that future history books will record. They have not yet had to stand in the gap, to plug it with their own fragile bodies and lives against the evil that portends. Not yet have they been required to pledge "their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor." Yet they will have to. I believe with all my heart the lesson that history teaches: That each and every generation of Americans is given, along with the liberty and opportunity that is their heritage, the duty to defend America against the tyrannies of their day. Our father's fathers fought this same fight. Our mother's mother's mothers fought it as well. From the Revolution through the world wars, from the Cold War through to the Gulf, they fought to secure their liberty in conflicts great and small, within and without.

They stood faithful to the oath that our Founders gave us: To bear true faith and allegiance--not to a man; not to the land; not to a political party, but to an idea. The idea is liberty, as codified in the Constitution of the United States. We swear, as did they, an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And throughout the years they paid in blood and treasure the terrible price of that oath. That was their day. This is ours. The clouds we can see on the horizon may be a simple rain or a vast hurricane, but there is a storm coming. Make no mistake.

Lincoln said that this nation cannot long exist half slave and half free. I say, if I may humbly paraphrase, that this nation cannot long exist one-third slave, one-third uncommitted, and one-third free. The slavery today is of the mind and soul not the body, but it is slavery without a doubt that the Clintons and their toadies are pushing.

It is slavery to worship our nominally-elected representatives as our rulers instead of requiring their trustworthiness as our servants. It is slavery of the mind and soul that demands that God-given rights that our Forefathers secured with their blood and sacrifice be traded for the false security of a nanny-state which will tend to our "legitimate needs" as they are perceived by that government. It is slavery of a more traditional sort that extorts half of our incomes to pay, like slaves of old, for the privilege of serving and supporting our master's regime.

It is slavery to worship humanism as religion and slavery to deny life and liberty to unborn Americans. As people of faith in God, whatever our denomination, we are in bondage to a plantation system that steals our money; seizes our property; denies our ancient liberties; denies even our very history, supplanting it with sanitized and politicized "correctness"; denies our children a real public education; denies them even the mention of God in school; denies, in fact, the very existence of God.

So finally we are faced with, we must return to, the moral component of the question: "What good can a handgun do against an army?" The answer is "Nothing," or "Everything." The outcome depends upon the mind and heart and soul of the man or woman who holds it. One may also ask, "What good can a sling in the hands of a boy do against a marauding giant?" If your cause is just and righteous much can be done, but only if you are willing to risk the consequences of failure and to bear the burdens of eternal vigilance.

A new friend of mine gave me a plaque the other day. Upon it is written these words by Winston Churchill, a man who knew much about fighting tyranny: "Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." The Spartans at Thermopylae knew this. The fighting Jews of Masada knew this, when every man, woman and child died rather than submit to Roman tyranny. The Texans who died at the Alamo knew this. The frozen patriots of Valley Forge knew this. The "expendable men" of Bataan and Corregidor knew this. If there is one lesson of Hitlerism and the Holocaust, it is that free men, if they wish to remain free, must resist would-be tyrants at the first opportunity and at every opportunity. Remember that whether they the come as conquerors or elected officials, the men who secretly wish to be your murderers must first convince you that you must accept them as your masters. Free men and women must not wait until they are "selected", divided and herded into Warsaw Ghettos, there to finally fight desperately, almost without weapons, and die outnumbered. The tyrant must be met at the door when he appears. At your door, or mine, wherever he shows his bloody appetite. He must be met by the pistol which can defeat an army. He must be met at every door, for in truth we outnumber him and his henchmen. It matters not whether they call themselves Communists or Nazis or something else. It matters not what flag they fly, nor what uniform they wear. It matters not what excuses they give for stealing your liberty, your property or your life. "By their works ye shall know them."

The time is late. Those who once has trouble reading the hour on their watches have no trouble seeing by the glare of the fire at Waco. Few of us realized at the time that the Constitution was burning right along with the Davidians. Now we know better.

We have had the advantage of that horrible illumination for more than five years now--five years in which the rule of law and the battered old parchment of our beloved Constitution have been smashed, shredded and besmirched by the Clintonistas. In this process they have been aided and abetted by the cowardly incompetence of the "opposition" Republican leadership, a fact made crystal clear by the Waco hearings. They have forgotten Daniel Webster's warning: "Miracles do not cluster. Hold on to the Constitution of the United States of America and the Republic for which it stands--what has happened once in six thousand years may never happen again. Hold on to your Constitution, for if the American Constitution shall fail there will be anarchy throughout the world." Yet being able to see what has happened has not helped us reverse, or even slow, the process. The sad fact is that we may have to resign ourselves to the prospect of having to maintain our principles and our liberty in the face of becoming a disenfranchised minority within our own country. The middle third of the populace, it seems, will continue to waffle in favor of the enemies of the Constitution until their comfort level with the economy is endangered. They've got theirs, Jack. The Republicans, who we thought could represent our interests and protect the Constitution and the rule of law, have been demonstrated to be political eunuchs. Alan Keyes was dead right when he characterized the last election as one between "the lawless Democrats and the gutless Republicans." The spectacular political failures of our current leaders are unrivaled in our history unless you recall the unprincipled jockeying for position and tragi-comedy of misunderstanding and miscommunication which lead to our first Civil War.

And make no mistake, it is civil war which may be the most horrible corollary of the Law of Unintended Consequences as it applies to the Clintonistas and their destruction of the rule of law. Because such people have no cause for which they are willing to die (all morality being relativistic to them, and all principles compromisable), they cannot fathom the motives or behavior of people who believe that there are some principles worth fighting and dying for. Out of such failures of understanding come wars. Particularly because although such elitists would not risk their own necks in a fight, they have no compunction about ordering others in their pay to fight for them. It is not the deaths of others, but their own deaths, that they fear. As a Christian, I cannot fear my own death, but rather I am commanded by my God to live in such a way as to make my death a homecoming. That this makes me incomprehensible and threatening to those who wish to be my masters is something I can do little about. I would suggest to them that they not poke their godless, tyrannical noses down my alley. As the coiled rattlesnake flag of the Revolution bluntly stated: "Don't Tread on Me!" Or, as our state motto here in Alabama says: "We Dare Defend Our Rights."

But can a handgun defeat an army? Yes. It remains to be seen whether the struggle of our generation against the tyrants of our day in the first decade of the 21st Century will bring a restoration of liberty and the rule of law or a dark and bloody descent into chaos and slavery. If it is to be the former, I will meet you at the new Yorktown. If it is to be the latter, I will meet you at Masada. But I will not be a slave. And I know that whether we succeed or fail, if we should fall along the way, our graves will one day be visited by other free Americans, thanking us that we did not forget that, with help of Almighty God, in the hands of a free man a handgun CAN defeat a tyrant's army.

TOPICS: Chit/Chat
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To: badgerlandjim
No elections? No more observing the authority of the state for me, then. I would think millions of others would feel the same.

When Patrick Henry said "we have no election" he meant that there was no choice, not that there would be no elections.

401 posted on 08/28/2010 9:23:21 PM PDT by Interesting Times (For the truth about "swift boating" see
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

That is the reason why I say it is too late to save this country. There is only one thing left to live for: the extermination of all leftists.

I will be cruel to them simply for the sake of being cruel. Vengeance for the sake of vengeance.

402 posted on 08/28/2010 9:23:27 PM PDT by Soothesayer (“None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license...")
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To: Soothesayer
Only a small minority of people actually care about this country, their freedoms, or even their own children.

I must respectfully disagree. You find that sort of thing in the unlikeliest places. Before this is all over I may find myself sharing a foxhole with a DU poster who hates my guts, but who loves his country more. That's how it really is.

I do think it possible, even probable, that it will come down to violence in the end. For better or worse, we're actually very good at that. Very, very good.

403 posted on 08/28/2010 9:27:03 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: 2ndDivisionVet


404 posted on 08/28/2010 10:05:58 PM PDT by SweetCaroline (He is the Antichrist that denieth the Father and the Son. 1-John 2:22)
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To: imahawk

>We all STILL have too much to lose.When it comes to nothing to lose then its on like donkey kong.Just remember the french resistance and also what the soviets had to contend with.<<

I agree. I also think that within your statement is the kernel of why they keep extending the unemployment benefit period. People on unemployment may be hurting, but they want their check. When millions stop getting their check, they have nothing to lose. Not a good thing for Michelle Antoinette.

405 posted on 08/31/2010 2:42:04 PM PDT by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If/when our Federal Government comes to pilfer, pillage, plunder our property and destroy our lives

My gosh, where has your friend been?

406 posted on 09/19/2010 7:02:21 AM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

But the military would be on our side. It’s Obama’s ‘civilian military force’ that we’d have to contend with.

Dont bet on it. People go with the power that pays jobs. the police and lots of the military will go with the establishment.

407 posted on 09/22/2010 6:50:55 PM PDT by Chickensoup (There is a group of people who suck off the productive. They make rules then find infractions.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

My hand gun is just to get me to my rifle.

408 posted on 10/07/2010 5:12:53 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Liberal homosexuals oppose diversity.)
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To: NoLibZone
My ex-wife made me sell my Marlin .22LR and really nice Winchester 50 semiautomatic 12 gauge.
409 posted on 10/08/2010 6:01:24 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Palin/Bolton 2012)
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To: The_Media_never_lie

The article is from the mid 1990’s.

410 posted on 10/08/2010 6:02:20 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Palin/Bolton 2012)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet


411 posted on 10/14/2010 5:10:43 PM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Billthedrill

“A people unwilling to use extreme violent force to preserve or obtain their liberty deserves the tyrants that rule them.” stockpirate

412 posted on 10/27/2010 2:47:16 PM PDT by stockpirate ("......When the government fears the people you have liberty." Thomas Jefferson)
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Comment #413 Removed by Moderator

To: 2ndDivisionVet

This was an excellent piece. I have often wondered myself how we would fight against an evil government. This explains it so well and having seen so many films about resistance fighters in WWII, I should know better.

414 posted on 11/08/2010 9:42:14 AM PST by Paved Paradise
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To: Terry Mross

Present and accounted for.


415 posted on 11/17/2010 4:33:54 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES!)
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To: Tucson_AZ

No... FREEDOM, LIBERTY AND THE AMERICAN WAY WON... the closing scene man... The entire region was dedicated to the WOLVERINES. America was restored.


416 posted on 11/17/2010 4:40:27 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Great post. Thanks. I know a lot of “sheep” with teeth.

[Mr] T

417 posted on 11/26/2010 4:56:32 AM PST by trooprally (Never Give Up - Never Give In - Remember Our Troops)
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To: Terry Mross

What karma and coincidence. Just watched "Red Dawn" again last night on the Hulu movie channel online. :>)

Still miss Patrick Swayze immensely. :>(

418 posted on 11/26/2010 10:27:21 AM PST by SlightOfTongue
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bookmark for later

419 posted on 12/02/2010 1:20:43 PM PST by KansasGirl
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“One wonders if the current political elite’s opposition to so-called ‘Saturday Night Specials’ doesn’t come from some adopted racial memory of previous failed tyrants. Even cheap little pistols are a threat to oppressive regimes”

I’ve never wondered; the truth is obvious.

420 posted on 12/02/2010 1:33:57 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obamacare is America's kristallnacht !!)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Four “insurgents” with crude weapons could tie up 150 Marines for most of a day.

not with proper air support....eliminate the area in which the insurgents used for their “fortress”...ELIMINATE it !!!!!

421 posted on 12/04/2010 9:46:55 PM PST by terycarl (interested and informed)
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To: terycarl
Do you think the ROE’s in this country will allow the destruction of a major urban area to wipe out a few insurgents? Besides air is just a tactical problem to be dealt with. You spoof it or destroy it.
422 posted on 12/05/2010 6:49:20 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (V for Vendetta.)
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To: MountainDad
His said NO ONE he talked with, some Officers included, would obey any command to attack or harm U.S. citizens. I felt better after that phone call.

Bullsh#t. Just like no FBI agents would actually kill children or burn them alive, then bulldoze a crime scene. Just like Federal ATF agents are there to protect citizens from evil criminal gun and explosive criminals.

Just like the little cops that like to go parading around in balaclavas and acting like little Sammy the Special operator.

They will collect their paycheck, follow orders like good little bureaucrats.

Maybe, just maybe a small percentage will resign or refuse to arrest civilians, but what will happen is that the first several will get prison or death and the rest will fall inline.

The way they'll do it is to round up all the Oath Keepers first, then everybody with a license for automatic weapons, followed by concealed carry permit holders... finally the NRA, GOA lists will be used then everybody that had hunting permits.

turn in your guns or get the knock on the door. would you go to the defense of a neighbor when a bunch of cops showed up. Nope. you and everybody else would tsk, tsk, tsk.. they should have obeyed the "insert generic regulation/fee/insurance mandate/" and they wouldn't be in trouble with the law.

Cops and soldiers get paid by the government and how many are willing to give that up?

the Army will go after civilians if they are "labeled" correctly and will even go after veterans...we've done it before and I'm sure that we'd or they'd do it again. Goes triple for cops.

423 posted on 12/05/2010 5:53:46 PM PST by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat, they sh#t on)
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To: Dick Vomer
Believe what you want, pal. I'm just repeating what my kid told me.

You been around infantry guys much lately?

424 posted on 12/05/2010 6:06:59 PM PST by MountainDad (Support your local Militia)
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To: MountainDad
None of them would obey such an order. That is why it would come down alot differently than that. It won't be ‘go shoot any civilian who you see with a gun!’. It would be ‘A heavily armed group has attacked the local police while they were serving a valid search warrant. The police are outgunned and outnumbered, and there are officers down. We need to go get them out to a safe area for medical evac, and neutralize any threat to our and their safety.’

Our troops wouldn't be aware that the search warrant was to seize all the arms in town and round up all gun owners, ala Concord and Lexington. That would not be part of their pre-mission briefing. All they would be told is some group attacked the police, and the National Command Authority had determined that military intervention was warranted.

And our troops would go and complete that mission. That is just the way it is.

425 posted on 12/05/2010 6:23:00 PM PST by ex 98C MI Dude (Alea Iacta Est)
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To: MountainDad
You been around infantry guys much lately? <\I>

I've been around a XO of a MEU, a couple of platoon leaders and some NCOs in the Marines. They'll follow lawful orders and the only non infantry guy was a Colonel In the USAF. Who knows what someone would do in the heat of the moment.

426 posted on 12/05/2010 6:55:22 PM PST by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat, they sh#t on)
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To: Dick Vomer

Thank you for your opinion.

427 posted on 12/05/2010 7:22:29 PM PST by MountainDad (Support your local Militia)
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To: ex 98C MI Dude

Thank you for your opinion.

428 posted on 12/05/2010 7:23:43 PM PST by MountainDad (Support your local Militia)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"A handgun is for fighting your way to your rifle which you shouldn't have put down in the first place"

-- Clint Smith, US Marine, President and Director of Thunder Ranch

429 posted on 12/19/2010 6:24:45 PM PST by Iron Munro ("Only criminals, dictators and democrats fear armed citizens.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Yeah and I'm certain I posted to it, too. But I'm glad to see it again since I'm always having this exact same debate with my students every school year. This time, I'll print it and use the article as a discussion springboard with my seniors.
430 posted on 12/19/2010 10:32:28 PM PST by ExSoldier (Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil: It has no point.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
LOL I found my original posts for this year at #67. I'm going to keep it as a permanent part of my teaching references.
431 posted on 12/19/2010 10:42:19 PM PST by ExSoldier (Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil: It has no point.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Thank you BUMP.

432 posted on 12/19/2010 11:17:55 PM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !! Â)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm
"But the military would be on our side. It’s Obama’s ‘civilian military force’ that we’d have to contend with."

Thirty-million illegal aliens armed with AK-47's, courtesy of Obammy and mammy planning a double-whammy against Uncle Sammy.

We need to get him out of office before he attempts that. Illegals, need I say, have no allegiance to America and are just stupid enough to want to shoot a rifle for Obammy for crack and a sack.

433 posted on 12/20/2010 6:54:20 PM PST by Eastbound (3-7-77)
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To: DMZFrank

While in the dreaded Walmart last week one of the gun mags( not sure which one ) had an article on the LIBERATOR. You can purchase clones of the original that are now being made or the original that will set you bacl a lot of $$$$.

434 posted on 01/06/2011 11:36:03 AM PST by Renegade
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To: Tucson_AZ

They won and there was a monument to their bravery in one of the last scenes of the film.

435 posted on 01/06/2011 11:37:25 AM PST by Renegade
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To: Renegade

Thanks. I hope we win at the end of the re-make:

436 posted on 01/06/2011 3:38:45 PM PST by Tucson_AZ (A million seconds ~ 12 days; a billion ~ 31 years; a trillion ~ 31,000 years - now think dollars)
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To: Tucson_AZ

Read “ One Second After “ . Bout what happens after an EMP attack on the USA. Not Pretty !!

437 posted on 01/07/2011 7:19:15 AM PST by Renegade
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To: Renegade
Haven't yet read it, but I well know the EMP vulnerabilities and scenarios. Have you seen this - EMP: A Terrorist's Dream - a short film produced by the Center for Security Policy warning about the dangers of an EMP attack"? 1850's tools and equipment would become very precious.
438 posted on 01/07/2011 2:33:07 PM PST by Tucson_AZ (A million seconds ~ 12 days; a billion ~ 31 years; a trillion ~ 31,000 years - now think dollars)
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To: All


439 posted on 02/18/2011 5:18:22 PM PST by Maverick68
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
There's a Liberator pistol up for sale on, if you're interested :-)

440 posted on 02/19/2011 4:53:46 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Joe 6-pack

At this point, I can’t afford to pay attention, much less buy that, but thanks for the heads-up. Maybe someone here will be interested...

441 posted on 02/19/2011 5:02:01 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (We need more Democrats in the Senate --Like Custer needed more arrows.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I know what you mean....if I had a spare $2799 I'd snatch it right up.

And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

442 posted on 02/19/2011 5:05:11 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The Founding Fathers didn’t have a 2nd Amendment at that time. They didn’t feel that they needed PERMISSION to be armed. -

My dad was in the infantry in WWII, in heavy combat, in N. Africa, Sicily, Italy and finally, Germany, then thinking he’d have to go to Japan, as an experienced soldier, and help finish the job. He raised me, glad I was a girl, and hoping that I’d never have to kill any man. Me, too! But, I wasn’t raised by a coward, and I can’t predict the future or how the Lord will show me what I must do in the future as He wills. My husband was in the military and does not draw back from being armed.

443 posted on 02/20/2011 3:40:33 PM PST by Twinkie
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To: Nachum

>>The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto held off the the entire mechanized Nazi machine for two weeks with paultry numbers of handguns, molotov cocktails, and whatever they could scrape together.<<

We Poles are strong people and good to have on your side.
Those who have come from Poland and settled here are American first, but never forget their roots.

We will fight until the end.

444 posted on 02/20/2011 8:01:00 PM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
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To: Nachum

Sorry, I replied to a thread from the cloud.

God Bless!

445 posted on 02/20/2011 8:02:44 PM PST by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
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To: netmilsmom

This thread has taken on new importance.

As the media laments the events in the Middle East where governments are killing their protesting citizens, it is interesting that nobody seems to say this would not happen if the fundamental human right of self defense were universally recognized, rather than attacked.

In other words, Khadaffi would not last 5 minutes with an armed population!!!!!

446 posted on 02/25/2011 1:17:05 PM PST by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Been meaning to ping” ping.

447 posted on 03/02/2011 9:35:47 PM PST by Jane Long (2 Chron 7:14)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’d rather die on my doorstep than bend over for them.

448 posted on 03/15/2011 7:37:41 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Liberalism is a social disease.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Homosexuals have been in every military since we lived in caves.

Perhaps, but now it is their agenda that is in the military.
449 posted on 03/24/2011 4:29:20 PM PDT by Yet_Again
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To: Yet_Again

Might I ask if you wore the uniform, and if so, which branch and MOS?

450 posted on 03/24/2011 4:30:38 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet ("You cannot invade the US There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." Yamamoto)
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