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What Good Can a Handgun Do Against an Army.....?
End The War on Freedom ^ | June 18, 2003 | Bill St. Clair

Posted on 08/10/2009 3:48:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

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To: Noumenon

I’ve found suggestions it’s what’s known to most of us as a “Crescent wrench”.


151 posted on 09/03/2009 7:33:12 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Noumenon
All right - I give up. What’s an Alabama speed-wrench?..................................... ............................................. An adjustable jaw open end wrench, sometimes also called a cresent wrench. Almost as handy as a pair of dikes. (Another valuable resistance tool).
152 posted on 09/04/2009 5:28:07 AM PDT by wrench
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I kinda think that we Loyal Americans are the can do an go to people.
I live in farm country and I know if there are plenty of people here that are willing to protect the people they love.
We can and will defeat any usurper of our freedoms.
The people I know here don’t own just one rifle or pistol. They own many. As far as ammo is concerned and the mneans to make more. I think around here we are prepared for those contigencies.


153 posted on 09/05/2009 11:02:00 PM PDT by Doc91678 (Doc91678)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

bump to the top


154 posted on 09/09/2009 8:40:35 PM PDT by GOPJ (Who received the Van Jones FBI reports and who over-ruled the findings? fr:thouworm)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“We remain, as a British officer had reason to complain at the start of our Revolution, “a people numerous and armed.””

Had to LOL at this one. Ouch. Poor chap.


155 posted on 09/24/2009 7:41:18 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: allmendream
Much more numerous and much better armed than in 1776, but is the will to fight there? Will we defend our freedom, sovereignty and honor?
156 posted on 09/24/2009 8:02:52 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $1 million for Sarah Palin if she runs; What will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The will to fight who?

Who is the enemy? Someone who won over 50% of the vote, or the people who voted for him?

He is my ideological enemy, but not my military enemy... yet.

When they disband Congress, cancel elections, declare some0ne “President for Life” you can get back to me and my will to fight.

Right now I fight by raising money, voting, protesting, registration drives, etc.

But as a lifelong country boy and military veteran, tyranny has much to fear from me.

Tyranny isn't here yet.

157 posted on 09/24/2009 8:33:30 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —


158 posted on 09/24/2009 8:38:36 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: allmendream

Ramming an $800 billion dollar unread by congress “stimulus” plan through isn’t tyrrany? Taking over 1/7th of the economy isn’t? Public ownership of GM, Chrysler, AIG, etc. isn’t? A tax for a mythical “climate change” isn’t? Flag@WhiteHouse.gov isn’t fascism? Pay caps and firing GM’s CEO isn’t dictatorship? A “Civilian National Security Force” just as powerful and well-funded as the U.S. military isn’t? Not prosecuting voter intimidation by the Black Panthers isn’t? Communists as advisors to the president isn’t?


159 posted on 09/24/2009 8:44:29 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $1 million for Sarah Palin if she runs; What will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Sorry, but the people want most that crap, and that crap impinges upon, but has not been found to violate our Constitution. They are still working within the system and still have popular support.

But I guess you answered my question.

But your “enemy” is still a majority of Americans.

Do you want to shoot them, or convince them of the error of their ways?

An accounting is coming in 2010, and again in 2012. They will be shown the error of their ways at the ballot box.

As George Clinton said... “You don't need the bullet when you got the ballot.”

We had our bloody revolution, it was a success; now we go about figuring what we want to do with our permanent freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution and granted to us by God. Awhile ago the mood was that we should expand the power of government. Now the pendulum is swinging back the other way.

We win at the ballot box, not the ammunition box.

160 posted on 09/24/2009 9:01:10 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: allmendream
Have you noticed the politicians (especially the Democratic Leaders and Chairmen) acting like they could care less what their constituents (or the “Blue Dogs”) want? Could it be that they know that something between now and November 2010 will keep elections from happening? There's not another explanation that I can think of, can you? What would've sounded extremely paranoid a year ago is fast approaching a reasonable theory, IMO.
161 posted on 09/24/2009 9:24:26 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $1 million for Sarah Palin if she runs; What will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Well talk to me in 2010 when the elections don't happen. As soon as I see an iron clad action towards despotism like that I start my “Red Dawn” act.

Until then....

Re-read what I posted to you from the Declaration. Oh-Zero has been President for, what, ten months now? Patiently suffered a long string of abuses and usurpations with the goal being our reduction to total despotism we have not yet experienced.

Another year and he will be a lame duck, he is getting lamer by the second as the Blue Dogs turn up their noses at the steaming pile of health care “reform” that they know will be their electoral death knell.

162 posted on 09/24/2009 9:30:05 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: allmendream
now we go about figuring what we want to do with our permanent freedoms...

Freedom ain't permanent. Never has been, never will be. Anyone who says such a thing is a dangerously deluded fool.

163 posted on 09/24/2009 9:32:00 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker
Our freedoms are granted to us by God, and are eternal.

It is their recognition by governments that is temporary and conditional.

164 posted on 09/24/2009 9:33:21 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: allmendream
It is their recognition by governments that is temporary and conditional.

No sh**, Sherlock.

165 posted on 09/24/2009 9:34:13 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Lurker
And you cut that part out of my sentence.

Do you think it is government that makes you free? That under one government you would be free but in another you would be enslaved?

Man exists with the PERMANENT natural right to be free, a government that recognizes those rights is just, one that does not is a tyranny.

Freedom is eternal. Governments come and go.

166 posted on 09/24/2009 9:35:46 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: Lurker
So you take me out of context, and when I repeat the context to you it is a “NSS”?

Tell it to yourself.

167 posted on 09/24/2009 9:36:47 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: allmendream
Do you think it is government that makes you free?

Nope.

a government that recognizes those rights is just,

Let me know when you run across one of those will you?

Thanks in advance.

168 posted on 09/24/2009 9:40:13 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The American government (or some insane pseudo faction of it) would never try to take America by force. They’d have their azzes handed to them in just a few days.

For every armed American, there’s another unarmed one who’s gonna still ask “Hey, what the H you guys doin here”.
The logistics of how do you handle that population are complicated by those other guys out there who happen to be shootin at ya!


169 posted on 09/24/2009 9:41:23 PM PDT by djf (I ain't got time to read all the whines!!!)
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To: Lurker
Anarchist?

Sorry if you take offense that I am an American patriot who believes in and supports and has taken an oath to protect and defend the U.S. Constitution.

170 posted on 09/24/2009 9:44:09 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

I wouldn’t put it past this administration to hire foreign mercinaries to help him round up dissidents. Like maybe African and Muslim mercinaries. It would be easier to keep their dirty deeds quiet that way. And all tax-payer funded, of course. Wouldn’t that just be the ultimate insult to injury.


171 posted on 09/24/2009 9:48:58 PM PDT by XenaLee
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To: XenaLee

Sorry.

I just don’t see it happening.

It’s not like you’re talkin a couple guys in camo will be driving around in a beat up Volvo pretending their going to play paint ball somewhere.

We’re talking troop carriers. Lots of them. Maybe more than has been in any single place at one time since WWII.

And what’s Katie Couric gonna say about it at 6PM?

Nothin. Cause it won’t even be on the air anymore. Government would have to, out of total necessity, shut down all major forms of communication. People might notice that. Even those who don’t watch CBS.

And where are all the buses used for transport? You start pickin folks up, and we’re not talking kindergarten buses. We’re talking buses with chains attached to the seats...

Even IF they were smart enough to get all these things planned out, it would take like what, about 15 minutes before anybody with half a brain in this country would realize things were way, way wrong and they were rounding folks up.

Then, it’s party time!


172 posted on 09/24/2009 10:12:57 PM PDT by djf (I ain't got time to read all the whines!!!)
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To: PowderMonkey

I’ll up the ante with this little discussed history lesson that includes some of our most “honored” leaders on the wrong side.

“WITH THE Great Depression causing mass unemployment and bread lines across the U.S., some 40,000 veterans of the First World War made their way to Washington, D.C., in the summer of 1932 to demand immediate payment of a bonus under a law passed several years earlier.

The law granted compensation of a $1 a day for stateside service and $1.25 a day for overseas service to each veteran, but payment was delayed until 1945–leading veterans to derisively refer to the money as the “Tombstone Bonus,” because you would die before you collected it.

Facing the dire circumstances of the depression, veterans wanted Congress–which had already paid off debts and bonuses owed to corporations and war profiteers–to take care of veterans, too.

As the number of veterans who pledged to camp in the nation’s capital until they received their bonuses grew, alarm swept through the political establishment.

“If the farmers of this nation who are suffering united, as these men have united, and with the same abandon, started a march upon the Capitol, and joined ranks with those of the city whose souls have been seared with misery during the past few years, it would not be difficult for a real revolution to start in this country,” wrote California’s Republican Sen. Hiram Johnson in a letter to his son.

On July 28, Gen. Douglas MacArthur–aided by then-Majors Dwight Eisenhower and George Patton–led 200 cavalrymen, 400 infantrymen with fixed bayonets, and five tanks against the largest of the protesters’ encampments near the Anacostia River.

MacArthur’s troops drove the veterans out and burned the camp to the ground. By the end of the day, two veterans were dead, and dozens more–as well as many civilian onlookers–were wounded.”

From: http://eldib.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/the-march-of-the-bonus-army40000-veterans-of-the-first-world-war-made-their-way-to-washington-dc-in-the-summer-of-1932-to-demand-immediate-payment-of-a-bonus-under-a-law-passed-several-years-ear/


173 posted on 09/25/2009 12:27:17 PM PDT by reed13 (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

we all have antifreeze, invite one in for a cool little drinky


174 posted on 09/29/2009 5:26:47 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Interesting reading. Let us not forget that the defenders of the Constitution will be the Counter Insurgency. WE are the government.


175 posted on 09/29/2009 8:14:29 PM PDT by RatBastage
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To: NVDave

No economic activity, no tax revenue. No tax revenue... and the government soon has a problem funding government operations... like the military.

***************8

Can’t they just print money?


176 posted on 09/29/2009 10:47:34 PM PDT by ROTB ("By any means necessary"=EvilExcusd "The urge 2 save humanity is [often a ruse] for the urge 2 rule")
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To: ROTB

Yes, they can.

And at some point, the money becomes about as valuable as Zimbabwe’s.


177 posted on 09/29/2009 10:49:08 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: Little Ray

There is more to fighting than owning a weapon and ammo. Regular armies regularly defeat MUCH larger groups of irregulars, especially if they’re stupid enough to meet them in open battle.

***********************************

I worked with a former marine who said his unit had a 5000+/1 kill ratio in Somalia.

Wow.


178 posted on 09/29/2009 11:02:09 PM PDT by ROTB ("By any means necessary"=EvilExcusd "The urge 2 save humanity is [often a ruse] for the urge 2 rule")
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To: rom

Amazing reading ping, especially the following:

A new friend of mine gave me a plaque the other day. Upon it is written these words by Winston Churchill, a man who knew much about fighting tyranny: “Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”


179 posted on 09/29/2009 11:28:41 PM PDT by ROTB ("By any means necessary"=EvilExcusd "The urge 2 save humanity is [often a ruse] for the urge 2 rule")
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To: ROTB

Amazing quote. Thank you.


180 posted on 09/30/2009 1:19:38 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: ROTB

Amazing quote. Thank you.


181 posted on 09/30/2009 2:56:18 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: spetznaz

No problem FRiend. Just pulled it from the post for my FRiend’s convenience who I was pinging, but I’m glad it caught your eye also.


182 posted on 09/30/2009 4:04:59 AM PDT by ROTB ("By any means necessary"=EvilExcusd "The urge 2 save humanity is [often a ruse] for the urge 2 rule")
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To: ROTB; Little Ray

How many of the irregulars in Somalia, do you suppose, were veterans of a nation-state’s well-trained armed forces? See the difference? I’m a fat, slow 49 year old, but I haven’t forgotten my intelligence experience/training, map reading, marksmanship and small unit tactics, etc., and many of the “irregulars” will be Iraq, Afghanistan, Desert Storm and other recent veterans. As the article suggests, there are multiple millions of deer hunters in this country, most all of them equipped with military-style clothing, equipment and firearms, and that’s just one category!


183 posted on 09/30/2009 10:39:29 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2 million for Sarah Palin if she runs; What will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This along with the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Can you imagine an America where everyone read these two documents at least once a year for their entire lives?


184 posted on 10/01/2009 4:28:16 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: mad_as_he$$

That implies 3.25 million to control America, if 15% were insurgents.

They won’t come at us that way. They’ll do it like they always have - individually and sideways.


185 posted on 10/01/2009 4:31:39 AM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
Yup, 3 am give you 5 minutes to come out and then burn it to the ground. Take your kids and wife and kill you on your front lawn. People (many FReepers) thought I was nuts when I predicted they would be run by foreign contractors. Just ask a small town in Montana what they think about Russian contractors today.
186 posted on 10/01/2009 4:40:22 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof. V for victory)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Word would sorta get around kinda quickly.
Don’t think that would get very far in my neighborhood, a nice little enclave with white picket fences and itchy trigger fingers.


187 posted on 10/01/2009 4:49:25 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (Mr. Obama, I will not join your plantation.)
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To: ctdonath2
I understand. Wonder how many are willing to lay it all on the line for the neighbor.
188 posted on 10/01/2009 4:51:09 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof. V for victory)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The Somalis were veterans of a decades long civil war and armed with automatic rifles and anti-tank weapons. They knew the ground. They also had the advantage of mindset - they didn’t mind killing people and probably didn’t even view our troops as fellow human beings.
They were still slaughtered.
Americans lack automatic fire weapons and heavy weapons like RPGs. We’re also pretty squeamish. Some of that can be made up with equipment available out of, say, Cabelas (quick point sights, and gen 3 night vision goggles), and accuracy, and other from commercially available material, but the US Military, if the government drops the RoEs to a bare minimum (which it would against an internal rebellion) would be an incredibly destructive engine.


189 posted on 10/01/2009 6:03:27 AM PDT by Little Ray (Obama is a kamikaze president aimed at the heart of this Republic.)
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To: ROTB

Thanks for the ping! Fascinating read.


190 posted on 10/01/2009 6:43:38 AM PDT by rom (Israel got Saul before they got David. Where's our David?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Contemplate moving against an army of 100 million, hidden throught the nation.


191 posted on 10/06/2009 9:18:11 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Would have worked then but now not so much.


192 posted on 10/07/2009 2:55:22 AM PDT by PIF
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To: PIF

How is it then that some rice-growing villagers (Vietnam), third world peasants (Afghanistan) and Islamic tribalists (Iraq) kept so many leading world powers (France, USA, UK & USSR) so busy for so many years with rudimenatry weapons like flintlocks, the AK-47 and homemade IEDs?


193 posted on 10/07/2009 3:25:12 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2 million for Sarah Palin if she runs; What will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Because the big powers parked their nukes and decided to fight a 21st century war as if it was the 18th. Turn Terhan, Pak, and Afgan, into parking lots... or just take out Mecca during the Haj - no warning - if anyone actually wants to win this religious war.

We were winning in Nam. Only the pc antiwar types broke the will to fight. Even Giap was thankful for the peaceniks - the better red than dead crowd - because he was out of most everything including cannon fodder.


194 posted on 10/07/2009 4:59:25 PM PDT by PIF
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To: mad_as_he$$
Hell....two dumb asses tied up much of D.C. , Maryland and Virgina....not too long ago.

I've said for years now....Teams of trained folks could paralyze cities....airports, capitals, seaports, etc...

195 posted on 10/07/2009 5:06:47 PM PDT by Osage Orange (A community organizer cannot bitch when communities organize..... - Rush Limbaugh)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Going downtown to ping city.


196 posted on 10/09/2009 4:59:58 PM PDT by Nitro
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

How many of the irregulars in Somalia, do you suppose, were veterans of a nation-state’s well-trained armed forces? See the difference? I’m a fat, slow 49 year old, but I haven’t forgotten my intelligence experience/training, map reading, marksmanship and small unit tactics, etc., and many of the “irregulars” will be Iraq, Afghanistan, Desert Storm and other recent veterans. As the article suggests, there are multiple millions of deer hunters in this country, most all of them equipped with military-style clothing, equipment and firearms, and that’s just one category!

***********************

I see the distinction you are making. But I’m wondering, if the Somalis didn’t field their best against that 5000/1 crew, why not?

With regard to here, Obamas “Civilian National Security Force” of illegal aliens, and Muslims will have their work cut out for them.


197 posted on 10/10/2009 12:08:12 AM PDT by ROTB ("By any means necessary"=EvilExcusd "The urge 2 save humanity is [often a ruse] for the urge 2 rule")
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To: ROTB
How many Somalis do you suppose can read and write? I can't recall any word of them having GPS, night vision devices, scopes, tree stands, RVs, bullet resistant armor, CB radios, walkie-talkies or the ability to reload.
198 posted on 10/10/2009 2:45:51 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2 million for Sarah Palin if she runs; What will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

self ping


199 posted on 10/17/2009 9:01:15 PM PDT by Semper Mark (My ROE: Kill 'em all, God will sort 'em out later.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I know some female soldiers who might surprise you.
They are hard working, train on their own, and would fight to the death.

Of course, they’re all from Alabama ;)


200 posted on 10/17/2009 9:52:21 PM PDT by Shadowstrike (Be polite, Be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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