Research - Vattel & the meaning of the Constitutional term "Natural Born Citizen"

http://www.loc.gov/index.html ^ | 5/12/2010 | many

[rxsid]

Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 from the U.S. Constitution states:

"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States."

[DiogenesLamp]

Lots of good stuff in Ludlam v Ludlam.

Link

[DiogenesLamp]

Thanks to Bluecat6 for finding this.

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[DiogenesLamp]

Link.

[DiogenesLamp]

So look at the at the state court cases, as aptly cited in the CRS report. See Lynch v. Clarke, 3 N.Y. Leg. Obs. 236, 242, 244 (1 Sand. ch. 583) (1844).

I'm glad you mentioned Lynch v. Clarke (A state case, not a Federal case.) The logic of the court was that since New York did not have a statute defining citizenship, the court had decided to use the English Common law definition. The New York Legislature immediately rebuked the court by passing a citizenship definition statute that effectively overturned the ruling in Lynch v. Clarke for any subsequent cases.

As I keep telling you, It is the DUTY of the PEOPLE to REBUKE the COURT when the court is wrong.

[DiogenesLamp]

forgot to add the link. http://books.google.com/books?id=l3w4AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA51#v=onepage&q&f=false>

[rxsid]

Great find...

[DiogenesLamp]

Thanks. Take a look at the footnote. It pretty much says the book was thoroughly used by the congress and specifically in the Constitutional Convention.

I recall reading that the Dumas Copies had specific notes in the margins. I believe Franklin made some notes in one of the copies as well. Wouldn’t it be awesome if one of the copies used by the Constitutional Convention had notes indicating that was the specific source for the Natural Born citizen clause?

[DiogenesLamp]

Marriage to an American Male made the woman an American Citizen, a practice which existed prior, but was codified into law in 1854.

[DiogenesLamp]

Congress floated the idea of requiring the President's "counselors" to be a "natural born citizen". Link>

[DiogenesLamp]

Too big to fit on the page.

The Common Law Common-plac’d (1733)

"And one born out of the King's Allegiance, coming and residing in England, his children born here are not aliens but Denizens."

http://volokh.com/files/jim-alien4.png

From "The Volokh Conspiracy."

http://volokh.com/posts/1204265246.shtml

[DiogenesLamp]

[DiogenesLamp]

In a jump-kick to "the press-as-journalists"'s face, Volokh notes Samuel Johnson's A Dictionary of the English Language (1755), the most widely used dictionary at the ratification's time, ..."

.

link:

"A nation properly signifies a great number of families derived from the same blood, born in the same country, and living under the same government."

[DiogenesLamp]

An act of Congress requiring All of the officers and 3/4ths of the sailors to be "natural born citizens." In practice, this meant the sailors could not have English Fathers, or by the laws of England they were British subjects. The practice of impressment of those who were the sons of British Fathers is WHY WE WENT TO WAR with England in 1812.

Link.

[DiogenesLamp]

I'm leaving this here so I know where to find it next time I need to cite it. :)

[rxsid]

If simply being born in the U.S. were enough to be considered a "natural born Citizen", then the current Dauphin of France, as considered by the Legitimists, Prince Louis Duke of Burgundy would be considered POTUS eligible.

French Royal Family
Legitimist

Prince Louis was born in New York City, 2010. Yet, his father is a French and Spanish citizen (but not a U.S. citizen) and his mother is Venezuelan.

If the French decided to have another restoration of the House of Burbon, the King of France would be considered POTUS eligible.
Or, if Louis Alphonse were to be elected POTUS 1st...and then the French decided to restore the crown...wow!

Imagine that. The King of France and the President of the U.S. as one in the same.

Is the current Dauphine of France considered POTUS eligible?

Coat of arms of the Dauphin of France.

I believe the founders and framers would be repulsed by such a notion.

[little jeremiah]

It’s obviously clear to those who don’t have ideological blinders aka as an axe to grind. As on this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2841342/posts?page=318#318

Kind of cute coat of arms, though.

[GregNH]

I believe the founders and framers would be repulsed by such a notion.

In light of SCOTUS mentioning that any decision made without taking into account the intent of a law, or something along those lines I read recently. It would seem to be an obvious question. Would the framers who placed the NBC clause in the Constitution be repulsed to have a British subject in the WH?

[rolling_stone]

ping

[Brown Deer]

Is the current Dauphine of France British Barack Hussein 0bama of Kenya and Indonesia considered POTUS eligible?

I believe the founders and framers would be repulsed by such a notion.

[rxsid]

Indeed!

However, in the interesting case of the heir apparent to the French Monarchy, Prince Louis Duke of Burgundy:

Point 1: 40 years, nobody in their right mind thought it possible that a person born with foreign citizenship, who is an outright Marxist America hater...would be elected President and Commander in Chief.

Point 2: 40 years from now, who's to say that the Duke of Burgundy, then perhaps the senior male heir and therefore reigning head of the Bourbon House, couldn't be elected President and Commander in Chief of the U.S. since he was, born in New York.

Point 3: Shortly thereafter, who's to say it's impossible that the French government either a) realizes an opportunity to influence our Executive branch & foreign policy or b) simply longs for a national identity with the chaos surrounding the E.U...reinstates the crown (like they've done in the past), even if it's with restrictions.

Point is, the Duke of Burgundy is 1st in line (behind his father) in royal French blood...and is also considered an American citizen because he was born here. People think it's far fetched? I would direct them back to point 1.

This goes precisely to the fears the framers had at the time. A foreign Prince/government, gaining direct access to the Presidency and the head of our Executive office.

If the 14th Amendment = NBC, then this is exactly what is possible in ~40 years.