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Eve after the Fall

Posted on 02/04/2011 6:53:48 PM PST by Mandingo Conservative

Great moments in Democrat Party History: Genesis edition. Satan was like the first "community organizer", just ask Eve, the first liberal useful idiot! Dumb broad and her damn apples.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: apples; bible; democrat; democrats; demonic; dumbbroad; eve; feminism; feminist; history; husband; liberal; liberals; mother; revolutionary; satan; sin; wife
She left Adam, now she lives with a chick named Susan, doesn't shave her arm pits, teaches revolutionary yoga in Berkeley and grows red organic apples - and ye shall be as gods is her motto.
1 posted on 02/04/2011 6:53:49 PM PST by Mandingo Conservative
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To: Mandingo Conservative
It was feminism ( feminine independent spirit ) being influenced by the serpent that caused Eve, and then Adam to fall.
Feminist means, apart from Adam.
NO THANK YOU !!! no thanks to you feminist for the curse that we find ourselves in now....
Before the fall, Eve was the complete, and whole woman, and was truly fulfilled.
2 posted on 02/04/2011 7:07:56 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: Mandingo Conservative

Actually Adam was the liberal, because he let Eve talk to the serpent. He didn’t protect his wife from the serpent. God put Adam in charge. It was his job to lead his wife. Adam’s passivity was his sin.
“A man is someone who rejects passivity, accepts responsibility, leads courageously and expects the greater reward – God’s reward.”


3 posted on 02/04/2011 7:11:05 PM PST by deltaromeo11 (Isaiah 5:20)
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To: deltaromeo11
“A man is someone who rejects passivity, accepts responsibility, leads courageously and expects the greater reward – God’s reward

if you actually believe that, you are either unmarried, naive, insane, or totally uninformed. Women run every phase of our lives....want to eat, she usually cooks, want sex, she says yes or no, clean clothes, normally she does the laundry. Men lead NOTHING...they just think they do (I've been married for 50 years...I know)

4 posted on 02/04/2011 7:26:07 PM PST by terycarl (4)
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To: terycarl

Adam and Eve are equally responsible for the fall. The Bible is very clear on this. Eve sinned by defying God in wanting to have His knowledge by disobeying Him. Adam did nothing to stop Eve and indeed sinned further by taking a bite of the apple after being told explicitly by God not to do so. Anyone who blames one more than the other is twisting Scripture for their own agenda.


5 posted on 02/04/2011 7:39:22 PM PST by BlessedMom92
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To: BlessedMom92

I’ve thought about this for a long time. I’ve tried to think what Adam thought. He sinned but He loved his wife. I believe he decided to sacrifice himself for her by joining her in the sin in hopes that God’s love for him and Eve would cover for their mistake. What they didn’t know is what God would have to sacrifice in order to redeem them and those who would follow (their children...us, you and me, etc.).


6 posted on 02/04/2011 7:54:52 PM PST by killermosquito (Buffalo, Detroit (and eventually France) is what you get when liberalism runs its course.)
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To: American Constitutionalist

“It was feminism ( feminine independent spirit )”

Hence, Lilith. She was supposedly (according to mythology) whispering to Eve to listen to the serpent and eat the apple, telling her to not let Adam run her life. And God of course.


7 posted on 02/04/2011 8:08:40 PM PST by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: killermosquito

God isn’t interested in our “feelings,” he’s interested in our response (obedience) and indeed, Satan has the authority to use our feelings to deceive us. Whether or not Adam loved Eve or not, which he probably did, he disobeyed God (as did Eve). Using your logic, Adam should have prevented Eve from eating the fruit so she would not die, regardless of what personal discomfort he might experience in rebuking Eve.


8 posted on 02/04/2011 8:22:44 PM PST by BlessedMom92
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To: Niuhuru
" Hence, Lilith. She was supposedly (according to mythology) whispering to Eve to listen to the serpent and eat the apple, telling her to not let Adam run her life. And God of course. "

That's why gossiping is so dangerous, you know, the show, THE VIEW
9 posted on 02/04/2011 8:33:40 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: American Constitutionalist

I think Oprah is a bit more sinister.


10 posted on 02/04/2011 8:35:06 PM PST by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: BlessedMom92

Excellent point.

God puts all we need ot know about living right out there for us to see. There’s little room to make mistakes and while we might feel differently about His laws and instructions, they have yet to fail us if we follow them.

Feelings aren’t facts because they cloud our judgement on many things.


11 posted on 02/04/2011 8:38:35 PM PST by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: deltaromeo11
" Actually Adam was the liberal, because he let Eve talk to the serpent. He didn’t protect his wife from the serpent. God put Adam in charge. It was his job to lead his wife. Adam’s passivity was his sin.
“A man is someone who rejects passivity, accepts responsibility, leads courageously and expects the greater reward – God’s reward.”

" Actually Adam was the liberal "

Adam was nothing of the sort, that's a lie that the feminist want to promote to out the blame for all this mess all on Adam.

Adam before the fall was perfect and pure in all that he was.
To put the blame on Adam is simply not true.

The seeds of sin and rebellion started in feminism when Eve decided in HER SELF, not by any fault of Adam's, to be independent of God and Adam.

Yes, Go ahead and blame Adam for not protecting Eve, might as well blame GOD also for not protecting Eve.
Are you going to put the liberal label on GOD for not protecting Eve ? of course not.

But, it was by no fault of GOD's or Adam's that Eve decided to partake of the forbidden fruit, for all of us are responsible for our OWN ACTIONS.

Adam knew God's warning, and he allowed himself to be seduced by the devil and Eve, he was responsible for his own actions, just like Eve was responsible for her actions.

Mankind had before the fall free choice, that was the only time that mankind had free choice.

God told Adam that they can " FREELY " eat of any tree of the garden, but ? of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil they shall not eat, for in the day that they eat of that tree, they shall surely die.

There was another tree that was in the mist of the Garden, that tree was the tree of life, it was front and center, it was most prominent of all the trees in the garden.

To put the blame on Adam is simply not true, and that is the lie that feminist want to place on man, on Adam.

God placed before them the choice, to chose between life, or death.

Eve was deceived because of the lust of the eyes, because the devil convinced her that she was not satisfied with GOD, or with her husband, and her dissatisfaction had nothing to do with Adam, it was all a lie from the devil.

It's like many women today in their marriages, they are deceived and lied to and are convinced that they are not being fulfilled in their marriages and go look somewhere else, to go and find " themselves " somewhere else.

The devil today even convinces women today that even GOD can't satisfied their needs and wants, for GOD can't make them happy so they have to go somewhere else and find it.

The fact that the devil convinced Eve that she was not happy with GOD, had nothing to do with God's ability to meet her needs.
The fact that the devil convinced Eve that she was not happy with Adam, or that Adam could not make her happy, or protect her, had nothing to do with Adam's ability in himself to make her happy or protect her.

It was all a lie to trick her to look somewhere else.

The responsibility of the fact that the lust of her eyes allowed her to look somewhere else, the reponsiblility that she allowed the lust of her own eyes by the lies of the devil was her own fault, and not GOD's or Adams.
The root of rebellion and sin started when Eve was convinced by the con-man, the liar that she was not happy, by the lust of her OWN eyes.
12 posted on 02/04/2011 9:06:03 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: Niuhuru
" I think Oprah is a bit more sinister. "

AMEN ... the Queen of Queens of Jezebels.
13 posted on 02/04/2011 9:08:45 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: American Constitutionalist
Adam was nothing of the sort, that's a lie that the feminist want to promote to out the blame for all this mess all on Adam. Adam before the fall was perfect and pure in all that he was. To put the blame on Adam is simply not true. The seeds of sin and rebellion started in feminism when Eve decided in HER SELF, not by any fault of Adam's, to be independent of God and Adam. Yes, Go ahead and blame Adam for not protecting Eve, might as well blame GOD also for not protecting Eve. Are you going to put the liberal label on GOD for not protecting Eve ? of course not. But, it was by no fault of GOD's or Adam's that Eve decided to partake of the forbidden fruit, for all of us are responsible for our OWN ACTIONS. Adam knew God's warning, and he allowed himself to be seduced by the devil and Eve, he was responsible for his own actions, just like Eve was responsible for her actions. Mankind had before the fall free choice, that was the only time that mankind had free choice. God told Adam that they can " FREELY " eat of any tree of the garden, but ? of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil they shall not eat, for in the day that they eat of that tree, they shall surely die. There was another tree that was in the mist of the Garden, that tree was the tree of life, it was front and center, it was most prominent of all the trees in the garden. To put the blame on Adam is simply not true, and that is the lie that feminist want to place on man, on Adam. God placed before them the choice, to chose between life, or death. Eve was deceived because of the lust of the eyes, because the devil convinced her that she was not satisfied with GOD, or with her husband, and her dissatisfaction had nothing to do with Adam, it was all a lie from the devil. It's like many women today in their marriages, they are deceived and lied to and are convinced that they are not being fulfilled in their marriages and go look somewhere else, to go and find " themselves " somewhere else. The devil today even convinces women today that even GOD can't satisfied their needs and wants, for GOD can't make them happy so they have to go somewhere else and find it. The fact that the devil convinced Eve that she was not happy with GOD, had nothing to do with God's ability to meet her needs. The fact that the devil convinced Eve that she was not happy with Adam, or that Adam could not make her happy, or protect her, had nothing to do with Adam's ability in himself to make her happy or protect her. It was all a lie to trick her to look somewhere else. The responsibility of the fact that the lust of her eyes allowed her to look somewhere else, the reponsiblility that she allowed the lust of her own eyes by the lies of the devil was her own fault, and not GOD's or Adams. The root of rebellion and sin started when Eve was convinced by the con-man, the liar that she was not happy, by the lust of her OWN eyes.

'snicker'.... IT was Adam that did indeed blame God for Genesis 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, "Where art thou?"

10 And he (Adam) said, "I heard Thy voice in the garden and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself."

11 And He (The LORD) said, "WHO told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?"

12 And the man said, "The woman whom Thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat."

I can't find anything about any apple orchard, the party took place in a 'fig' grove.

14 posted on 02/04/2011 9:29:12 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: terycarl

LOL!


15 posted on 02/04/2011 9:40:17 PM PST by abigail2
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To: deltaromeo11
" Actually Adam was the liberal, because he let Eve talk to the serpent. He didn’t protect his wife from the serpent. God put Adam in charge. It was his job to lead his wife. Adam’s passivity was his sin. “A man is someone who rejects passivity, accepts responsibility, leads courageously and expects the greater reward – God’s reward.” "


You know how the feminist movement is a lie ?


You know how feminism got it's root from the father of all liars ?


Feminist want it both ways, but, they can't have it both ways, it's, either - or


The feminist demand, they proclaim equal rights, they pound their chest and demand equality, but, women had equality before the fall.

Eve allowed the devil to deceive her, and to con her out, rob her and women of today and of all time of her equality that women today are seeking.


They demand equality, but, don't take equal responsibility for the fall, they demand equality, but, put the blame of the fall on GOD and Adam.


How can I say that ? say that by them putting the blame on Adam is also putting the blame on God ?

We were created in the image of GOD, in his likeness.

Adam was God's Federal Figurehead of authority here on Earth.

Adam was God's Representative, God's shareholder of authority here on Earth, was God's ambassador here on Earth.

By placing the blame on Adam was also placing blame on GOD authority and GOD's man of authority.

The man, the husband in a marriage is the head of the wife, so, as the same as Jesus Christ is the head of the body of Christ.

A husband in a marriage is GOD's figurehead of authority in a family.


How can the feminist demand equality, but, at the same time place the blame on Adam and GOD ? and in that regard, deny their own respondsibity and equal blame for the fall ?

The feminist can't have it both ways.


They can't demand equality, and at the same time deny their equal share of blame for the fall and place it on man, or Adam and GOD.

Does also does not take away from the responsibility and fault of any man by being a bad leader in the family.... we are all responsible before GOD of our own actions.
16 posted on 02/04/2011 9:45:28 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: Just mythoughts
Did I say anything about a apple ? for all we know, it was forbidden fruit.

" 'snicker'.... IT was Adam that did indeed blame God for Genesis 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, "Where art thou?" ...

Yes, your right, Adam did blame the woman, but, in case you have not noticed, this is Adam in his fallen state, sin entered his heart, and now, he is fallen.
17 posted on 02/04/2011 9:52:44 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: American Constitutionalist
" Actually Adam was the liberal, because he let Eve talk to the serpent. He didn’t protect his wife from the serpent. "

Actually, it takes a liberal to say such a thing.

In case you have not noticed, Liberals do not want to accept personal responsibility and want to find fault in someone else for their own actions and put the blame on them.


18 posted on 02/04/2011 9:56:29 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: American Constitutionalist
Did I say anything about a apple ? for all we know, it was forbidden fruit.

I have yet to eat any kind of literal fruit and realized I was naked. No you did not say it was an apple.

" 'snicker'.... IT was Adam that did indeed blame God for Genesis 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, "Where art thou?" ...

Yes, your right, Adam did blame the woman, but, in case you have not noticed, this is Adam in his fallen state, sin entered his heart, and now, he is fallen.

Adam blamed the LORD for 'that woman' the LORD gave him.... See old BJClinton was half way quoting Scripture that day when he denied ... with 'that woman'... Nothing 'new' under the sun...

19 posted on 02/04/2011 9:59:39 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: American Constitutionalist

Find me the verse in the Bible where G-d tells EVE not to eat the fruit.


20 posted on 02/04/2011 10:17:01 PM PST by MestaMachine (Note: I never capitalize anything I don't respect. Like obama and/or islam.)
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To: American Constitutionalist; Just mythoughts

Can’t find it, can ya.


21 posted on 02/04/2011 10:31:03 PM PST by MestaMachine (Note: I never capitalize anything I don't respect. Like obama and/or islam.)
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To: MestaMachine

Only Adam was given the commandment to not ‘touch’ the tree trunk. I think it was Adam’s duty to set the standard and protect ‘that woman’ instead of blaming The LORD that gave her to him. But more than that it demonstrates to us now just how ‘weak’ flesh beings are when they do things their way. And all three were judged for their actions.


22 posted on 02/04/2011 10:39:05 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: American Constitutionalist

I mean, this womna foisted Dr. Phil on the world and has basically sermonized her own views on things, despite being completely unqualified.


23 posted on 02/04/2011 10:47:04 PM PST by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: American Constitutionalist

Kind of boils down to ingratitude. Adam and Eve had it all and thye wrecked it because they didn’t appreciate what they had. They wanted more and selfishly went against the guidance and rules God set down. All either ahd ot do was follow them.


24 posted on 02/04/2011 10:52:59 PM PST by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: American Constitutionalist

Adam was not a liberal, but he was passive, which I likened to wimpy - thus liberal.
God created Adam first and God put Adam in charge. Eve is termed by God as Adam’s helper. God told Adam not to eat of the fruit. God actually does not say “don’t touch it.” Eve says, “God said not to touch it.” So either Eve misquoted God or Adam did not communicate the directive effectively. Now, in the middle of Genesis 3:6 the verse says that Adam “was with her” the whole time, during the conversation with the serpent. As the man in charge of the woman, it was his responsibility to lead the woman away from danger. Yes, Eve ate and sinned and was punished, but Adam could have prevented the whole thing by acting instead of being passive. We know that Gd held Adam accountable because the scripture in Genesis 3:9 states that “God called to the man” not to them both. To further prove Adam’s wimpiness, Adam blames God with the verse, “The woman you put here with me” did it.

It’s not really about feminism. It’s about recognizing responsibility. It’s about man trying to act like Jesus, the last Adam, rather than behaving badly like the first Adam. If men started to behave like responsible, noble men again in this society we would not be cursed like we are currently with passive men.(not all men, just what popular culture is trying to yoke us with) Isaiah 3 talks about our society now. I’m not saying it’s prophetic about our society, I’m just saying the situations are similar.(in case anyone starts arguing hermeneutics with me)


25 posted on 02/04/2011 11:16:42 PM PST by deltaromeo11 (Isaiah 5:20)
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To: Just mythoughts

I think the Genesis story is far deeper than that. Why TWO trees?
So let’s step out of the box. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that G-d created more than one pair of “man”. And they were each given the same two trees. One was knowlege and one was immortality WITHOUT knowledge. Those who would have chosen immortality would not have known how to survive a world like earth...let alone have “dominion” over it. Mindless servants that would need everlasting shepherding, no freedom of thought, no capability to adapt, no need to be fruitful and multiply because they were already immortal, and incapable of independent thought or free will.
Somehow, I don’t think that was ever what G-d intended.
So they were “conceived” in Eden, which might well be a metaphor for womb, innocent as babies, but babies must be nurtured in the womb and are completely and utterly dependent for literally everything on the body they inhabit. They can’t stay there forever. And once they leave the womb, there is no going back. That “garden” is closed to them forever. Hence, the angel at the gate.


26 posted on 02/04/2011 11:41:26 PM PST by MestaMachine (Note: I never capitalize anything I don't respect. Like obama and/or islam.)
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To: MestaMachine
" Find me the verse in the Bible where G-d tells EVE not to eat the fruit. "
Eve can't claim ignorance, she surely know what GOD had commanded, even if she was not directly told.

How then ? was Eve made known what GOD had commanded ?

Genesis 3

2. The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,
3. but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
27 posted on 02/05/2011 4:15:01 AM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: American Constitutionalist

That is hearsay and an assumption invalid in a court of law. Why should Eve have believed Adam and not the serpent? Both told her opposite things. Either could have been lying OR telling the truth. G-D did not tell her and in fact, in the second Genesis story, Eve had not even been created when G-d told Adam. Who was she supposed to believe?
And beyond that, I think Eve deserves a heck of a lot of credit for choosing knowledge over immortalty and eternal stupidity.
Did you know that ALL babies are female until seven weeks gestation?


28 posted on 02/05/2011 6:16:26 AM PST by MestaMachine (Note: I never capitalize anything I don't respect. Like obama and/or islam.)
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To: MestaMachine

Did you know that ALL babies are female until seven weeks gestation?

The parts may look similar in their development until seven weeks, but if the DNA says male, it’s male.


29 posted on 02/05/2011 4:00:36 PM PST by deltaromeo11 (Isaiah 5:20)
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To: deltaromeo11

Not until around 7 weeks. There is a process whereby the sex is determined. A male receives testosterone in the amount necessary to generate male genitalia. Even if there is a genetic predisposition for the fetus to become a male, if it does not receive the correct level of male hormones, the wolffian development is either incomplete or disappears altogether and what is left is either a very feminized male or a female.
I actually think that the overuse of birth control pills with their high levels of estrogen has caused a rise in feminine men and I would love to see a study done to prove or disprove my theory.


30 posted on 02/05/2011 5:16:41 PM PST by MestaMachine (Note: I never capitalize anything I don't respect. Like obama and/or islam.)
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To: MestaMachine
No matter how anyone looks at it, God holds us all accountable and responsible for our own actions and sin.

Eve, or the Feminist, or false teachers, ( yes, the feminist have infiltrated the church with this lie and polluted your minds and hearts ) can not place the blame on Adam for her sin, she was accountable and responsible for her own actions and sin.

Those who want to put the blame on Adam because Adam was supposed " a weak man " or passive " just want to push the blame of their own actions and sin on someone else.

It's called : PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY .... we are all held accountable and responsible before GOD of our own sins, not sins of others, our own sins.


We can argue and go round and round in circles like a revolving door until we are blue in our face, but, what it all boils down to, is ? when it all comes down to is ? ( *** Personal Responsibility *** ) being held accountable for what we have done.


Maturity is knowing when you are held accountible for YOUR OWN actions and sins, not someone else.

Putting the blame on Adam for what Eve had done herself is trying to escape personal responsibility.


It's the bogus argument that since we belong to Christ and since God is protecting us, when we sin, some how it is Christ who failed to protect us from sin.

* God forbid anyone puts the blame on GOD because anyone chooses to sin !! *

Because someone sins is not because God was not protecting them from sin,

* sin is a choice *

You choose to sin against GOD.


God gives us a way of escape when we are tempted with sin, and when someone sins, we make a conscience choice to sin.

It all comes down to Personal accountability, and Personal Responsibility.

31 posted on 02/05/2011 9:29:14 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: American Constitutionalist

Whoa there, fella. I never blamed Adam for anything. What Eve did or did not do was her own choice. I was simply pointing out that though everyone blames Eve, she was actually blameless...as was Adam though his situation was slightly different...and for the same reason G-d did not immediately do away with Cain for killing Abel. THEY DID NOT KNOW THEY WERE DOING WRONG. THEY HAD TO LEARN IT.
You are the one who started off this thread blaming Eve for feminist emasculation of men. That simply is not true. You have to equate your position on personal responsibility with the real truth which is:
Men ALLOWED themselves to be emasculated and personally, I wouldn’t want a darn thing to do with a man who grovels and whines or blames me for his own faults. It’s unseemly. Like white guilt.
See, I agree with your last post and you made my point. Thank you.


32 posted on 02/05/2011 10:08:21 PM PST by MestaMachine (Note: I never capitalize anything I don't respect. Like obama and/or islam.)
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To: American Constitutionalist

“just ask Eve, the first liberal useful idiot! Dumb broad and her damn apples.”

Lest you forgot how you started this thread. It is an absolute insult.


33 posted on 02/05/2011 10:12:17 PM PST by MestaMachine (Note: I never capitalize anything I don't respect. Like obama and/or islam.)
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To: American Constitutionalist

“NO THANK YOU !!! no thanks to you feminist for the curse that we find ourselves in now....”
“Before the fall, Eve was the complete, and whole woman, and was truly fulfilled.”

See what I mean?


34 posted on 02/05/2011 10:15:51 PM PST by MestaMachine (Note: I never capitalize anything I don't respect. Like obama and/or islam.)
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To: MestaMachine
I think the Genesis story is far deeper than that. Why TWO trees? So let’s step out of the box. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that G-d created more than one pair of “man”. And they were each given the same two trees. One was knowlege and one was immortality WITHOUT knowledge. Those who would have chosen immortality would not have known how to survive a world like earth...let alone have “dominion” over it. Mindless servants that would need everlasting shepherding, no freedom of thought, no capability to adapt, no need to be fruitful and multiply because they were already immortal, and incapable of independent thought or free will. Somehow, I don’t think that was ever what G-d intended. So they were “conceived” in Eden, which might well be a metaphor for womb, innocent as babies, but babies must be nurtured in the womb and are completely and utterly dependent for literally everything on the body they inhabit. They can’t stay there forever. And once they leave the womb, there is no going back. That “garden” is closed to them forever. Hence, the angel at the gate.

It is my opinion, of course, the Genesis 'story' is the least understood book of the whole Bible. Moses was not here in the flesh from the 'beginning' and did not literally experienced what he penned of Genesis. And interestingly Moses was educated by the Egyptian monarchy so he was NOT a dumb slouch sheep/goat herder.

I consider Genesis not only a 'history', but a 'key' to the road-map the rest of the holy prophets and apostles were used to guide any individuals flesh journey.

The two trees are symbolic and an allegory not literal trees. Trees as are used throughout by the prophets, from Gideon cutting down the 'grove', to that parable of the trees of Jotham recorded in the book of judges, and etc., even Christ cursing the 'fig' tree points back to Genesis and Jeremiah.

But this notion that Eve represents the cause and reason for poor man's fall is basis 101 instruction by the majority of Christian teaching. I even had a woman making a trip over to visit me with an instruction she had been given at a Sunday church sermon about how Rebekah too was evidenced of the 'natural' deceptive ways of woman. Now it was a STUPID man preacher that spoke without knowledge or understanding that wanted to put woman in her place.

The Genesis account says that all three individually 'sinned' were judged and held accountable for their own individual sins. Now I really do not see how tall any man stands by using Adam's whimpering out blaming the LORD for that woman the LORD gave him as anything to be beating their chests as cause. Most especially, when it was before 'that woman' was even formed that the man was given the one on one instruction to stay away from that specific and particular tree.

Rather seems to me all these many 'days' later that no one outside of the loving arms of the LORD is or will be immune to the lies and deceit of the magical tree of the knowledge of good and evil....

35 posted on 02/05/2011 11:27:50 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: MestaMachine
" “just ask Eve, the first liberal useful idiot! Dumb broad and her damn apples.”

" Lest you forgot how you started this thread. It is an absolute insult. "

In case you have not noticed, I did not start this thread.
36 posted on 02/06/2011 12:15:56 AM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: MestaMachine
" Whoa there, fella. I never blamed Adam for anything "

Ok, let us both step back, and think for a minute, what are you talking about ?
There is a teaching going on in churches who have been infiltrated by the feminist to subvert and bring control of the churches under the feminist control.

There is a popular teaching going around that people are teaching that, yes, even though Eve gave into the devil's seductions, that, still, it was Adam's fault for not protecting her.
They teach that Adam was not exercising his leadership, so I guess that's the excuse feminist of today use to escape their own actions and sins and lay the blame on their husbands ?

It's still pushing the blame onto Adam no matter how you look at it.
And by proxy, by putting the blame on Adam, is also putting the blame on GOD for not protecting her.

She knew what God's command was, she was not without any excuse.
She chose to go outside of God's and Adam's authority and disobey God's command.

We hear a lot of voices today that demand that men take up their rightful positions of authority in the family and take charge, is that what women really want ?
However, when a husband does try to assert his authority, sparks fly because there are a lot of feminist who hate it, oppose that a husband has a rightful place of the head authority in a family, that a husband has the rightful place of leadership and head authority over his wife and family.
Feminist rebel and hate GOD's authority, and a husband's rightful place of leadership and authority over his wife and family....
Do these voices that claim that they want men to assert their leadership really want the husband and men to assert their authority ?

IF ? IF that answer is a YES, then ? don't rebel against it when men, or a husband does assert his rightful authority and leadership.... can't have it both ways.
37 posted on 02/06/2011 12:33:52 AM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: MestaMachine
" Men ALLOWED themselves to be emasculated and personally "

We have voices that go around and tell us that men, husbands should take their leadership place in the family and assert their authority....
However ? we also have voices that say, by a husband asserting his rightful authority, that " the man " is trying to put " the woman " in her place...

Can't have it both ways...

On one token, they want the husband to not be passive, weak, and take the leadership role, assert his authority, but, on the other hand, when a man does, then they cry the victim role saying that the man is being mean and trying to put the woman in her place.

Can't have it both ways.



If and when these voices claim and demand that men/husbands take up their leadership role, and assert their rightful authority, then don't rebel against his and GOD's authority and claim the victim and say that the man/husband is putting the woman in her place.

Can't have it both ways.
38 posted on 02/06/2011 12:52:35 AM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: deltaromeo11

A memeber of the Fraternity as well, I see.

when I bring that truth of Adam up I get all kinds of flack, but the truth is the truth.


39 posted on 02/07/2011 1:36:41 PM PST by Rightly Biased (Do you know how awkward it is to have a political argument with a naked man?)
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To: MestaMachine

Adam was there when Eve took the fruit from the tree Genesis 3:6 ( He was with her) and he let her take it and he ate of it as well.

Adam is at fault for not protecting the woman. God put him in charge.
God told Adam she was weaker than he.


40 posted on 02/07/2011 1:41:57 PM PST by Rightly Biased (Do you know how awkward it is to have a political argument with a naked man?)
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To: Rightly Biased; robtb; American Constitutionalist; deltaromeo11; BlessedMom92; killermosquito; ...
You are chronologically incorrect.
But perhaps, for the sake of discussion, some of you might try explaining this:
(For the record, I am not trying to start a fight. These things seriously interest me and I would just love some interesting and non-flame type discussion. Not a religious war, just intellectually challenging discussion.)
22
And HaShem G-d said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.'
23
Therefore HaShem G-d sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24
So He drove out the man; and He placed at the east of the garden of Eden the cherubim, and the flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way to the tree of life.
______________________________________________________________
Personally, I think that this is the most fascinating part of the Garden story. And it neatly segues into this:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2
that the sons of G-d saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives, whomsoever they chose.
3
And HaShem said: 'My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for that he also is flesh; therefore shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.'
________________________________________________________________
And yet, you have the Sons of G-d taking women to wife and making children. Wouldn't that neutralize at least some of the human race from the decree against immortality?
So some of you might bring up the Great Flood, but do not forget that even there, man was saved along with wives and children.
What exactly is it in our DNA structure that separates us from all other species on Planet Earth?
And if all mankind was destroyed, then how does Cain and his offspring still fit this picture?
41 posted on 02/07/2011 4:57:36 PM PST by MestaMachine (Note: I do NOT capitalize anything I don't respect...like obama and/or islam..)
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To: MestaMachine
22 And HaShem G-d said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.' 23 Therefore HaShem G-d sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed at the east of the garden of Eden the cherubim, and the flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way to the tree of life. ______________________________________________________________ Personally, I think that this is the most fascinating part of the Garden story. And it neatly segues into this: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 that the sons of G-d saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives, whomsoever they chose. 3 And HaShem said: 'My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for that he also is flesh; therefore shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.' ________________________________________________________________ And yet, you have the Sons of G-d taking women to wife and making children. Wouldn't that neutralize at least some of the human race from the decree against immortality? So some of you might bring up the Great Flood, but do not forget that even there, man was saved along with wives and children. What exactly is it in our DNA structure that separates us from all other species on Planet Earth? And if all mankind was destroyed, then how does Cain and his offspring still fit this picture?

When did 'evil' first occur? Up to Genesis 2:9, the only verse in Genesis that gives any hint or suggesting of a negative/evil act is found in Genesis 1:2.

In Genesis 1:26 It is Written "And God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness:... Who is the 'Our' and 'Us' even before the first flesh beings were formed/created.

Sure reads like the LORD had company even before the flesh bodies were formed/created.

Even in secular historical accounts the hunter/gathers remains are noted as occurring before the gardeners left their footprints... Even Scripture says after Genesis 1:26 formation/creation in Genesis 2:5 '....., and there was not a man to till the ground. Makes total sense that Adam was placed in a 'garden' as completely different then the life style as noted in Genesis 1:26.

Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam He said, "Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, 'Thou shalt not eat of it:' cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

I do not read that this judgment was passed upon the descendants of Adam.

Peter says that God measures time IIPeter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing,

that one day is with the LORD as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Adam is recorded as having lived Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Not quite one day with the LORD.

Notice what Cain's punishment was for killing his brother Able. Genesis 4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to received thy brother's blood from thy hand;

12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth."

Interesting in that the offering Cain offered was brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

We are told in Genesis 4:2 And she again bare his brother Able. And Able was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

We are not told what instruction was given to the brothers as to the presenting of offerings, but had to have been given else there would have been no need for them to have brought offerings forth. And interestingly Able presented the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof, but Cain brought forth the fruit of the ground his offering. And the Lord respected Abel's offering but did not respect Cain's. And as is so noted in Genesis 4:7 by the conversation the Lord had with Cain.

Now of curious interest here is what our president half quoted as grounding for his 'deathcare' plan.. Genesis 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, "Where is Able they brother?" And he said, "I know not:

Bama's twist on Scripture.... Am I my brother's keeper?"

When I hear BamBam utter his 'brother's keeper' doctrine it sounded as if a bell had been rung back to the beginning.

Now as to the Genesis 6 'subject of possible immortality' of the offspring of the angels with the daughters of Adam.

The sons of God (angels) would not have been in flesh bodies, but the offspring would have been and they would as noted 'giants' would have been destroyed by the flood.

I note you capitalized 'Sons' in your post but my little old King James does not capitalize 'Sons' but rather says sons of God. And when I search out the Hebrew of this word sons, it does not come up as a proper name, so I feel that I can 'safely' believe the word used is not a proper name.

I can find no place wherein immortality is given to any flesh body other than Christ Himself. And there is certainly no suggestion that the 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil', or the serpent, and a host of other names/types allowed to practice, will ever be born of woman to take a flesh journey. And thus far the first fallen, the first rebel is the only named entity that has already been judged to death. And there is a numbered of those sons of God, or other places call them fallen angels that while not named too have already been judged to death.

I have not found recorded anywhere how long Cain lived. So it would be doubtful he was still walking this earth when the flood occurred. But Noah was told to take on the ark Genesis 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of *ALL* flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

So either all peoples of all races were also on the ark with Noah and 'survived' the flood, or the flood was regional in the places where there were offspring 'giants' of the daughters of Adam.

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are Mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die....... The pretty much covers every soul ever created.

42 posted on 02/07/2011 7:47:15 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: MestaMachine

MestaMachine,
My understanding is Adam & Eve had become like God, only in the sense that they knew sin/evil and they felt shame and they were already in a sense living forever because they were living with God in the garden. So, in mercy, God evicted them from the garden, so they would not have to live with the shame of sin forever. You, then jumped to Genesis 6. This, I agree, is perplexing. My understanding is that some of the angels - sons of God - made babies with human women and God was not pleased with the offspring. Also, men are exceedingly sinful, and without God’s influence we devolve into mayhem. God used the flood to wipe out all the sinful from all of the earth. Everything that walks on the ground, except for Noah, his family, animals and food, is destroyed by the global flood. What’s in our DNA is that God created us for a purpose. The Bible tells us the story of creation, the fall, redemption and salvation. God uses true stories of man throughout earth’s history to tell us the story of Him and what He wants from us. Feel free to keep questioning.


43 posted on 02/07/2011 9:45:55 PM PST by deltaromeo11 (Isaiah 5:20)
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To: Just mythoughts

Just mythoughts,

The “us” referred to is the trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
“3In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock.” Gen 4
Notice that Cain brought some of the fruits, not the good parts. Cain’s offering was a selfish offering. Cain kept the best for himself.


44 posted on 02/07/2011 9:47:26 PM PST by deltaromeo11 (Isaiah 5:20)
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To: MestaMachine

I stated no chronological order I just noted the verse that states that Adam was with Eve when she took the fruit from the tree.

Not trying to fight either but that is the way I read it.

As for your other questions I have been told the DNA was purer then so the inbreeding didn’t matter. I don’t know if I believe that one either...


45 posted on 02/08/2011 4:05:34 AM PST by Rightly Biased (Do you know how awkward it is to have a political argument with a naked man?)
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To: MestaMachine
" What exactly is it in our DNA structure that separates us from all other species on Planet Earth? And if all mankind was destroyed, then how does Cain and his offspring still fit this picture? "

Because God created man in his likeness and image ?
Because man has a soul and spirit ?
46 posted on 02/09/2011 8:40:56 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: deltaromeo11
" The “us” referred to is the trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. “3In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock.” Gen 4 Notice that Cain brought some of the fruits, not the good parts. Cain’s offering was a selfish offering. Cain kept the best for himself. "



It's more than just " First fruits " that GOD was pleased with Abel.

First fruits is a type, a foreshadow of Jesus Christ, he was the first born that would bring all of us to GOD.

God was going to bring the seed ( Jesus Christ, who will crush the devil's head ) through the woman.
(Genesis 3:15

( * 15. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring[a] and hers; he will crush[b] your head, and you will strike his heel.” * )



The instant that GOD told Adam and Eve that he would bring the seed ( Jesus Christ ) through Eve, from there, then onto Israel, then onto the rest of the world, GOD had to protect, preserve the gene pool, the DNA.
God had to keep the blood line pure, so, that is the reason he had to bring the flood because the rest of mankind was sinful and the blood line was polluted, that is the reason why he separated Noah and his family, then, Abraham, Issac, Jacob ( Israel ) Israel his chosen one's from the rest of the world.

" Abel was ABLE " to approach GOD by faith ( enter the sheepfold by the gate ( Jesus Christ, Yeshua Messiah, for he is the gate ) , and not by some other way ( whom robbers and thieves take, not through the gate of the sheepfold. ).
Abel was ABLE to approach GOD by faith and not some other way than what GOD told Adam and Eve.
The seed, Salvation would come through the woman's/seed, that " SEED = HE " .. that is " HE " who's HE ? .. " Jesus Christ, Yeshua Messiah, that's who.

Cain offered to GOD that what was of human effort, and by some other way than what GOD has told us, by faith.
Cain's was rejected because it was not BY of the way in what GOD will bring salvation.
It was man trying to approach GOD in man's way of thinking.
It was man made works and religion that GOD rejected, man's own self righteousness.
Salvation must come by GOD's way, not man's way.
Veggies and fruit do not have red blood like a lamb.
Veggies and fruits do not have flesh and blood like Jesus Christ had , the blood that was shed, and the flesh that was torn on the cross in our stead.
God said that the soul that sins must die, there must be shedding of blood for anointment.
The reason why Abel's offering/lamb sacrifice was accepted was because it would be by the way that our LORD and Savor would die, as a lamb ( the lamb of GOD ) offered unto GOD.
Cain's was offered onto GOD in human efforts, humanistic ways, by the way man thinks he can and should approach GOD, and it was not offered by faith.

Eve must have told both Cain and Abel that GOD would send a seed to bring Salvation to mankind, but, form Cain's actions, he did not believe. ( be li eve = be like eve in her faith )
47 posted on 02/09/2011 9:57:18 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: MestaMachine
" You are chronologically incorrect. "

In that case, the book of JOB would be the first book of the bible , and not Geneses, since the book of Job was written before Moses wrote his five books.
48 posted on 02/09/2011 9:59:28 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: MestaMachine
" That is hearsay and an assumption invalid in a court of law. "

Hearsay ? by who's teaching and standards ? your's ? your pastor's ? your religious teacher ? tell me by who's standards ?

Court of law ? I didn't know you and I were arguing this case in court... besides ? who's court of law ?


49 posted on 02/09/2011 10:01:58 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: American Constitutionalist

All good points. Thanks.

I have heard it described that when Adam and Eve sinned, they tried to sew fig leaves together. God saw that fig leaves were not suitable covering, so God killed an animal for it’s skins. This was probably the first time A & E saw something killed/sacrificed and were shocked by it and it increased their shame. Also A&E saw that something had to die to “cover” their sins. The skins were probably that of a lamb.


50 posted on 02/10/2011 11:46:32 AM PST by deltaromeo11 (Isaiah 5:20)
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