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The Tribune's View: Zimmerman, Standing his ground
The Columbia Daily Tribune ^ | April 16, 2012 | Henry J. Waters III, Editor and Publisher Emeritus

Posted on 04/16/2012 12:33:52 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

The state of Florida has charged neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman with second-degree murder for shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman will defend himself by claiming Florida law allowed him to "stand his ground" against Martin's threatening behavior.

Evidence of what really happened is scant. Martin is dead, and no eye witnesses saw the encounter. A 911 recording casts doubt on Zimmerman's account, but the Florida law will make it hard to get a conviction.

It's hard to believe under the circumstances that a large armed adult had to shoot an unarmed teenager in self-defense, but the extra layer of justification provided by the ridiculous "stand your ground" law invites this sort of mayhem.

The law, passed at the behest of the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights promoters, gives people the broad right to use deadly force without having to retreat from a fight. It gives a decided edge to someone like Zimmerman, who hauls out a gun and eliminates an adversary. In defense, he need only show "by a preponderance of evidence" he was acting in self-defense to get a judge or court to deny a second-degree murder conviction.

Many observers think prosecutors made this relatively tough charge expecting it to fail, moving the onus to the court.

The basic culprit in this and similar cases is the law itself. Unless indisputable video or eyewitness evidence exists, proving self-defense is easy. Martin and Zimmerman did meet face to face. Who is to say which one was trying to "stand his ground?" Even without anything beyond the evidence at hand, a reasonable person would conclude the big, adult neighborhood watchman confronted the teenager.

That this is a "white on black" killing injects a toxic racial overtone. If Zimmerman walks, the surrounding black population might erupt; but regardless of race, the law is misbegotten. The only justifiable defense in such cases is "self-defense" without the legal encouragement for deadly force. Since hardly ever will evidence to the contrary clearly exist, shooters are almost always assured of protection under the law.

In a perverse sense, it's too bad the black kid was the victim instead of the shooter. If the killing had been black on white, the white public might be more eager to recognize the paucity of the "stand your ground" law, a sad but true indication of continuing racial bias.

In an earlier day when white vigilantes threatened black people, nobody proposed a "stand your ground law." Today the law tends to cast the likes of Trayvon Martin as a predator in an interracial encounter. If the killing had been black on black, would the "stand your ground" law be in play?


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: banglist; georgezimmerman; lmm; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
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Wasn't Trayvon 5 or 6 inches taller than George? And did you get that he wishes that Mr. Zimmerman were the one who was dead?
1 posted on 04/16/2012 12:34:07 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

How in the world are they going to get a decent (fairly unbiased) jury for Mr. Zimmerman’s trial?


2 posted on 04/16/2012 12:37:31 PM PDT by madison10
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“A 911 recording casts doubt on Zimmerman’s account”

I stopped reading at that point.


3 posted on 04/16/2012 12:40:21 PM PDT by trappedincanuckistan (livefreeordietryin)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Zimmerman is only 5'8".


4 posted on 04/16/2012 12:40:57 PM PDT by Meet the New Boss
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If the killing had been black on black, would the "stand your ground" law be in play?

Don't know about that, but we've got a black man who shot and killed a white man over here in Tampa, and he's using the SYG defense. No decision yet.

This shooting was last fall, and the story has gotten very little play, even locally.

5 posted on 04/16/2012 12:42:11 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
That this is a "white on black" killing injects a toxic racial overtone.

Hey, George went back to being white!

6 posted on 04/16/2012 12:43:33 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Meet the New Boss

Everyone in this country should feel shame looking at this picture...every one of you.


7 posted on 04/16/2012 12:46:42 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I pray that the charges are dropped, and that Zimmerman sues the pants off Sharpton and the other race baiters and collects enough money to live safely in a foreign country.


8 posted on 04/16/2012 12:47:57 PM PDT by thethirddegree
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
It's hard to believe under the circumstances that a large armed adult had to shoot an unarmed teenager in self-defense

The "large armed adult" was 5' 9". The "unarmed teenager" was a 6' tall football player. As for being armed, that didn't help until Zimmerman pulled the trigger. Assuming that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and posed an immediate danger of inflicting serious bodily harm, pulling the trigger was both legal and exactly the right thing to do.

Police report: “While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head.” It's going to be unimaginably difficult to prove anything other than self-defense.

9 posted on 04/16/2012 12:48:53 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Can we afford as much government as welfare-addicted voters demand?)
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To: who knows what evil?

Excuse me—why should I feel shame looking at that photo?


10 posted on 04/16/2012 12:51:07 PM PDT by basil (It's time to rid the country of "gun free zones" aka "Killing Fields")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
A 911 recording casts doubt on Zimmerman's account

The writer doesn't say how, because he can't.

It's hard to believe under the circumstances that a large armed adult had to shoot an unarmed teenager in self-defense

Zimmerman is not a "large" man. Trayvon in his bulky hoodie would have towered over the much shorter Zimmerman.

The basic culprit in this and similar cases is the law itself.

The basic culprit was Trayvon. If you take a swing at someone asking you why you are in the neighborhood, and break his nose and then jump on him and try to crack open his skull on the sidewalk, then the person you are attacking has the right to defend himself.

Even without anything beyond the evidence at hand, a reasonable person would conclude the big, adult neighborhood watchman confronted the teenager.

More MSM dishonest spin about the "big" Zimmerman. The MSM lie painting this as a much bigger grown man shooting down a young boy appears to actually have tainted witness accounts of the event, as I discuss in this post.

11 posted on 04/16/2012 12:52:44 PM PDT by Meet the New Boss
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Where’s LaRaza and similar organizations? Seems like they at least would speak out about the sharpton/jackson lynch mob. I wonder what the Spanish/Latino radio stations are saying - are they in Zimmerman’s corner?


12 posted on 04/16/2012 12:53:20 PM PDT by MichaelCorleone (Stop feeding the beast; spend money only with those who support traditional American values.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The author is the former editor and publisher of the Columbia Daily Tribune?

I spotted three factual errors in the first three paragraphs!


13 posted on 04/16/2012 12:54:00 PM PDT by zeestephen
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>>>That this is a “white on black” killing injects a toxic racial overtone.

If Zimmerman is white, so is Dear Leader.


14 posted on 04/16/2012 12:56:20 PM PDT by Keith in Iowa (Willard Romney, purveyor of the world's finest bullmitt. | FR Class of 1998 |)
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To: trappedincanuckistan

And the author seems to think that getting your nose busted and having your head smashed repeatedly into the concrete by a larger, more aggressive stranger who is on top of you holding you down, is “threatening behavior”-well,I would like to know his/her definition of a beating??!!

Or is it only bad “behavior” when the aggressor is a black teen and the threatened is a “non-black”?

Threatening behavior makes it sound innocuous and something that you need to go to Anger Management classes for....when in reality, anytime you start banging someone’s head on the concrete while holding them down, is really an attempt to maime that person....or kill them.

There is no other outcome if the aggressor is not stopped somehow..and Zimmerman, like anyone with the urge to live, did what he had to do to protect his one and only head/brain/life...


15 posted on 04/16/2012 12:59:47 PM PDT by CT Hillbilly (Thoughts=Words=Actions=Destiny)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Pure conjecture and hyperbole ...


16 posted on 04/16/2012 1:00:17 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Meet the New Boss

Hey, isn’t the guy in the foreground of the picture the Florida chad counter from 11 years ago???


17 posted on 04/16/2012 1:01:27 PM PDT by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
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To: who knows what evil?

You comment can be interpreted in two completely opposite ways.

Did you mean, “Unjustly Accused.”

Or, “Zimmerman’s Guilty.”


18 posted on 04/16/2012 1:01:40 PM PDT by zeestephen
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To: MichaelCorleone

They tossed him under a bus right away. Zimmerman is no longer “Hispanic.”


19 posted on 04/16/2012 1:02:02 PM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: basil

In a free and just country; this man would NOT be standing there in handcuffs. We should be ashamed of ourselves for letting it get this far...


20 posted on 04/16/2012 1:06:02 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Noob1999

Good catch, could also be a relative of Henry Waxman


21 posted on 04/16/2012 1:09:48 PM PDT by Paratrooper
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To: zeestephen
Did you mean, “Unjustly Accused.”

Unjustly accused.

22 posted on 04/16/2012 1:12:55 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This article deserves a barf alert.


23 posted on 04/16/2012 1:13:11 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
And did you get that he wishes that Mr. Zimmerman were the one who was dead?

Well, yeah. FTA:

... it's too bad the black kid was the victim instead of the shooter.

24 posted on 04/16/2012 1:13:30 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (The only flaw is that America doesn't recognize Cyber's omniscience. -- sergeantdave)
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To: Noob1999; onyx; maggief; STARWISE; Liz; MinuteGal
Hey, isn’t the guy in the foreground of the picture the Florida chad counter from 11 years ago???

He sure looks similar. Any one got the original picture to compare?

25 posted on 04/16/2012 1:14:14 PM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: marktwain

Did you notice it’s in backroom?


26 posted on 04/16/2012 1:17:53 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: MichaelCorleone

“The Race” threw him under the bus < 1 week after the story broke.


27 posted on 04/16/2012 1:18:35 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (The only flaw is that America doesn't recognize Cyber's omniscience. -- sergeantdave)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

He’s sounds like a lib-dem *turd polisher*...

http://www.columbiatribune.com/staff/hank-waters-editor-and-publisher/

...cranking-out 1-2-3 “editorials”/day, for-pay:

http://www.columbiatribune.com/staff/hank-waters-editor-and-publisher/stories/


28 posted on 04/16/2012 1:19:18 PM PDT by carriage_hill (I'd vote for a "orange juice can", before 0bummer&HisRegimeFromHell, gets another 4yrs. Can-> later.)
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To: who knows what evil?

I’m ashamed of our ‘leader’ who gave his nod of approval for injustice to proceed by his first coming out and adopting trayvon DESPITER the FACTS that were coming otu at the time showing trayvon was NOT the sweet little angel the media was tryign to falsley make him out to be, and hten later when our ‘deaqr leader’ refused to weigh in on the case pretendign to ‘be above it aqll’ AFTER he had already set the raqcist injustice in motion!!!


29 posted on 04/16/2012 1:23:05 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop
I’m ashamed of our ‘leader’ who gave his nod of approval for injustice to proceed by his first coming out and adopting trayvon DESPITER the FACTS that were coming otu at the time showing trayvon was NOT the sweet little angel the media was tryign to falsley make him out to be, and hten later when our ‘deaqr leader’ refused to weigh in on the case pretendign to ‘be above it aqll’ AFTER he had already set the raqcist injustice in motion!!!

Amen.

30 posted on 04/16/2012 1:26:32 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: madison10

They are not and that is the plan, From start to finish it will be a kangeroo court.


31 posted on 04/16/2012 1:30:55 PM PDT by sport
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“The basic culprit in this and similar cases is the law itself.”

Trayvon is the only culprit in this case. And he paid dearly for his attack on George.

Kind of hard to retreat when you are on your back being beaten to death.

The other culprit in this case is Mr. Waters, and other like him, who are murdering the truth with this type of screed.

We are all Zimmerman. Long live Zimmerman!


32 posted on 04/16/2012 1:32:45 PM PDT by TheDon (The Democrat Party, the party of the KKK (tm))
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To: who knows what evil?

Gotcha—and I agree!


33 posted on 04/16/2012 1:40:12 PM PDT by basil (It's time to rid the country of "gun free zones" aka "Killing Fields")
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To: sport

34 posted on 04/16/2012 1:41:52 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
a reasonable person would conclude the big, adult neighborhood watchman confronted the teenager.

Color me unreasonable. Martin had height and being on the football team to Zimmerman's weight so that's a wash. If Martin had headed straight home rather than backtracking to confront Zimmerman with "You got a problem? Well, now you do" as he punched him in the nose and proceeded to pound the sidewalk with his head, he might be alive today.

35 posted on 04/16/2012 1:47:11 PM PDT by bgill
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To: hoosiermama
"Hey, isn't the guy in the foreground the Florida chad counter from 11 years ago?"

The glasses, watch and hairline may be the same....but does this guy have the bug-eyes of that famous counting judge?

I dunno....he could have been a central Florda volunteer who assisted the Broward (Dade?) county election officials to help out with the tallying in the Gore recount fiasco.

The original photo is on an FR thread titled "Kerry: I'll Fight for Each Fla Vote". I don't know how to post a link here. Maybe someone can bring that old thread up and post the pic here.

Leni

36 posted on 04/16/2012 1:49:53 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: basil

Zimmerman stands in chains while Jon Corzine walks around free as a bird.


37 posted on 04/16/2012 1:58:10 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Have the toxicology reports come out yet? The reason I ask is that anyone who is in touch with the real world would know that certain drugs make a person agressive, resistant to pain and able to exert much great strength than if they were clean - for instance, in the Rodney King incident, I doubt somewhat that an individual NOT on drugs could have sustained that many tazer hits and kept battling.

I hasten to add there is no evidence thus far that Trayvon was taking drugs - but before we assume that Zimmermann had a strength advantage, we might just want to wait for the toxicology reports. Conversely, if Zimmermann was high on something it could explain why he would "stalk" and "attack" a teenager - which some allege, and which appears to make liittle sense.

That's why, silly me, I like evidence first, judgement after.

38 posted on 04/16/2012 2:04:34 PM PDT by In Maryland (Liberal logic - the ultimate oxymoron!)
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To: who knows what evil?
Zimmerman stands in chains while Jon Corzine walks around free as a bird.

Well yea, duh. You can't be surprised when a nation becomes corrupted from the Prez down to the janitor.

39 posted on 04/16/2012 2:08:14 PM PDT by Digger (If RINO is your selection then failure is your election)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Sent to editor@columbiatribune.com :

“Henry J Waters III is a complete fucking moron. Either that or a race baiting far left POS. I’m not sure which. That may be the most disgusting one sided and patently false account of the Zimmerman/Martin shooting I’ve seen yet. You should be ashamed of yourselves but I suspect you’re actually proud.”


40 posted on 04/16/2012 2:16:29 PM PDT by MtBaldy (If Obama is the answer, it must have been a really stupid question)
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To: thethirddegree
Zimmerman sues the pants off Sharpton and the other race baiters and collects enough money

Good luck with that.

Fat Albert has a nasty history of not paying judgments against him.

41 posted on 04/16/2012 2:18:36 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: madison10

By not getting to the point of needing a jury.
The case can be dismissed by showing that there is no evidence of “mens rea” (to wit: guilty mind), and to the contrary there is evidence of justified self defense (injuries consistent with being a victim of assault); if there is nothing which could be construed as evidence of the charges, there is no point in convening a jury to evaluate that non-existent evidence.

Remember: it’s “innocent until proven guilty”. If there’s nothing which anyone could construe as proof of guilt, he’s deemed innocent.

A competent lawyer should be able to pull this off (assuming Z _is_ in fact innocent) notwithstanding the “stand your ground” law.


42 posted on 04/16/2012 2:35:26 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: In Maryland

“Have the toxicology reports come out yet?”

It would be interesting to see this info, but if the “pro-Zimmerman” narrative is correct, no drug-induced aggression was needed. Adrenaline and landing a heavy sucker punch to the nose provide enough edge to win most fights. The text message Martin had received, “I didn’t know you swung on no bus driver,” indicates prior experience with slugging authority figures he didn’t like. Is there any info on that incident out there? Was the driver hit in the face? (Apologies that this is off topic, but the linked editorial is too mendacious for comment).


43 posted on 04/16/2012 3:01:13 PM PDT by Chewbarkah
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Henry, your account of th Zimmerman shooting sounds like you got the script from NBC. No witnesses. I heard there was one or possibly two. One said they saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman pounding away. The audio being portrayed as Trayvon screaming is weak at best. You sound just like the Leftists who jumped to a LYNCHMOB conclusion in hopes to score political points painting Zimmerman as a white racist out to kill the poor inocent black child.


44 posted on 04/16/2012 3:04:52 PM PDT by spawn44
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’m honestly confused here. Why, if the the video and photo evidence clearly doesn’t match with the police reports (no blood from either of them or grass stains on zimmerman’s clithing, no wounds or even swelling on Zimmerman’s head or face, etc.) why are we so readily leaping to his defense? Is it just because the libs, Sharpton, Jackson, et all took the other side, or is there actual logical honesty here? Why are we following their lead in being so certain of what happened before a trial?


45 posted on 04/16/2012 3:26:09 PM PDT by Chops
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To: Chops

First of all, who is this “we” you speak of? You got here exactly 10 days ago. Secondly, you need to keep up: The “video and photo evidence” was enhanced and does show wounds and other things consistent with Mr. Zimmerman’s account of what happened.


46 posted on 04/16/2012 3:32:13 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Another smelly turd of an article from the Lynch Mob Media.


47 posted on 04/16/2012 4:12:20 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The problem I have is that even the enhanced video is ambiguious at best, showing what could be something on his head, and only really supports presupposed conclusions on both sides. And, then there’s the nose, and like said earlier, no blood evidence. It’s amazingly cloudy, which is keeping me from jumping on the “I support you George” wagon.


48 posted on 04/16/2012 4:13:16 PM PDT by Chops
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To: Chops

You also have to claim that the Sanford police officer at the scene and the Sanford Fire Dept. fireman who treated Zimmerman at the scene lied about him bleeding from the nose and the back of the head.


49 posted on 04/16/2012 4:22:16 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
In addition, the released, and subsequently pulled, police report noted Z’s injuries on his face and the back of his head, along with grass stains on the back of his clothes consistent with him being on his back on the grass.

That original police report is available elsewhere on the Internet.

50 posted on 04/16/2012 4:39:12 PM PDT by Aunt Polgara
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