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Dionne: Isn't it time to end fecklessness about guns? (Classic gun-grabbing screed)
The Erie Times-News / The Washington Post ^ | April 18, 2012 | E.J. Dionne

Posted on 04/18/2012 2:34:34 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

It's understandable if unfortunate that the controversy surrounding the killing of Trayvon Martin has polarized the country along both racial and ideological lines. But there is one issue that should not have any racial connotations: the urgency of repealing "Stand Your Ground" laws.

And leave it to New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg to speak the blunt truth about why these laws are dangerous -- and why the National Rifle Association keeps pushing them anyway.

"In reality," Bloomberg said in a speech before the National Press Club last week, "the NRA's leaders weren't interested in public safety. They were interested in promoting a culture where people take the law into their own hands and face no consequences for it. Let's call that by its real name: vigilantism."

On guns, Bloomberg is strong and everyone else is feckless, to paraphrase the late columnist Murray Kempton.

OK, not exactly everyone else. Bloomberg's partners in the group Mayors Against Illegal Guns -- notably Boston's Mayor Tom Menino, the organization's co-chairman -- have filled the void left in state legislatures, Congress and the White House by moderates, liberals and many conservatives who ought to know better but are too petrified by the NRA to confront it. Mayors face the daily toll taken by gun laws dictated by gun lobbyists and are less easily intimidated....

(Excerpt) Read more at goerie.com ...


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: banglist; bloomberg; mandatorybarfalert; mba; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
Actually, the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case seems to be shaping up as a testament of how self-defense laws should work. If someone bigger & stronger than you is bashing your skull into the ground trying to kill you, that's when a firearm can save your life.
1 posted on 04/18/2012 2:34:45 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

As the saying goes, God created men; Colonel Colt made them equal.


2 posted on 04/18/2012 2:44:39 PM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’ve owned and used guns going on 60 years, never been “feckless” once.


3 posted on 04/18/2012 2:45:07 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
And leave it to New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg to speak the blunt truth about why these laws are dangerous.

So how many people have been murdered in his city in the past week? We get a daily run down of the half dozen or so in Chicago. The number of self defense shootings in Detroit are skyrocketing.
4 posted on 04/18/2012 2:53:53 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

-—Ms. Dionne needed filler material for today’s column and did the usual anti-gun blather-—


5 posted on 04/18/2012 2:54:12 PM PDT by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the media or government says about firearms or explosives--)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The thing I’ve noticed about the gun-grabbers aka Anti-Gun nuts is that they are really into “projection”. They imagine what they would do and project that image(s) onto the rest of the population. That leads me to think that since they really can’t control themselves then everyone else needs to be controlled, (for our own safety of course).


6 posted on 04/18/2012 2:58:50 PM PDT by The Working Man
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Everyone knows the Kenyan lizard is planning to confiscate our guns during an “unrestrained second term”

Thanks for reminding America doofus Dionne and limo lib dumberg...


7 posted on 04/18/2012 2:59:39 PM PDT by y6162
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Martin shouldn’t have been “feck’n” around in Zimmerman’s neighborhood at night when and where he had no reasonable business.


8 posted on 04/18/2012 3:01:26 PM PDT by RatRipper (I'll ride a turtle to work every day before I buy anything from Government Motors.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Everyone knows the Kenyan lizard is planning to confiscate our guns during an “unrestrained second term”

Thanks for reminding America doofus Dionne and limo lib dumberg...


9 posted on 04/18/2012 3:09:11 PM PDT by y6162
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To: The Working Man

They seem to believe that where there are guns, we see shootings in the street every single day.

I’m 48 years old and grew up in gun heavy Michigan and haven’t personally witnessed a single shooting in my whole life.


10 posted on 04/18/2012 3:14:33 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: cripplecreek

I agree. I personally have never seen a shooting either. Maybe these people have seen to many Hollywood movies? And in the case of Mayors and some of the police been involved with the “worse” side of the populace more than with the normal people that are everywhere living quiet and mostly peaceful lives?


11 posted on 04/18/2012 3:22:25 PM PDT by The Working Man
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To: The Working Man

There was a shooting in my little town 4 or 5 years ago that was a love triangle thing among people who don’t even live here. Before that it was nearly 30 years since there was a murder here.


12 posted on 04/18/2012 3:25:39 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Trust me when I say these libtards are not after guns as they know thats a battle they can't win. What they can do is make the guns useless by puting absolute FEAR of the government into the minds of anyone bold enough to use one, even if used in clear defense of their life.

Stand your ground, Castle Doctrine, etc etc are laws that really should NOT be needed in the first place. They are laws demanding that the state/government follow the law. Our constitution confirms and protects our right to defend our lives with deadly force as do most of the state constitutions. The problem has been the prosecutors and the POLICE are ignoring these rights and arresting and prosecuting innocent people. Even if the innocent ultimately win in court their lives are destroyed in the process.

The Zimmerman case is a perfect example of why we need MORE stand your ground laws not less. These laws also need to be STRONGER worded with teeth against abuse of power as we see in this case.

In the end this prosecutor should be disbarred and the state held accountable for the prosecuting of an innocent man where there was no probable cause to even arrest him.

The time for Immunity for police and prosecutors is over. At one time in our nations history these offices of the state could be trusted and needed the protection of immunity. Now they are often more dangerous than the thugs from which they are supposed to protect us. We must continue to level the playing field.

13 posted on 04/18/2012 3:30:01 PM PDT by precisionshootist
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Only a faggot fairy would use the term “feckless”.


14 posted on 04/18/2012 3:31:35 PM PDT by CodeToad (If it ain't Newt, we're screwt !)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“We do not need statutes that encourage citizens to assume that feeling threatened is reason enough to shoot another human being.”

“I am living proof that people feeling threatened should not use a gun to protect themselves, and I would shout that from a rooftop for the world to hear....if my throat hadn’t been cut from ear to ear.”

Nicole Brown Simpson


15 posted on 04/18/2012 3:37:05 PM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; wku man; SLB; ...
Dionne can drop dead.

This lickspittle has never heard of a gun-control scheme that he didn't like, and he's always happy to regurgitate the same discredited talking points.

Leftmedia lapdog. Ignore.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

16 posted on 04/18/2012 3:59:49 PM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Funny isn’t it, that the locales most in favor of prohibiting private ownership of firearms all seem to have a disproportionatly high population of human trash. Conversely it seems that in communities with less human trash, the firearms there aren’t nearly such a menace. Why then don’t politicians advocate the criminalization of human trash? Could it be that said human trash are a large constituency of one of our major political parties? Jus askin.’


17 posted on 04/18/2012 4:25:19 PM PDT by VR-21
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Guns are used by private citizens 2.5 million times per year to prevent violent crimes like rape, robbery, home invasion, carjacking, etc., 99% of the time without a shot being fired. (http://gunfacts.info/)

But screw those people.

They are RACIST to defend themselves from the Trayvon Martins of this country (black males age 16-36) who compose less than 3% of the US population, but commit 50% of the murders.

18 posted on 04/18/2012 4:26:30 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (For every black person murdered by a white, thirty-nine white people are murdered by blacks.)
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To: precisionshootist
The problem has been the prosecutors and the POLICE are ignoring these rights and arresting and prosecuting innocent people. Even if the innocent ultimately win in court their lives are destroyed in the process.

Agreed, however, the problem with the Zimmerman case in my opinion is the lack of a paper trail explaining why they determined that prosecuting him at the time of the incident was inappropriate. From what has been publicly released the charge of second degree murder is excessive and a charge of manslaughter is debatable requiring more evidence than I currently have.

I worry that due to the MSM trying to declare him guilty in a one-sided public trial, we will see riots after Zimmerman is acquitted or released due to inability to find an unbiased jury.

19 posted on 04/18/2012 4:28:04 PM PDT by Fraxinus (My opinion, worth what you paid.)
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To: cripplecreek
I’m 48 years old and grew up in gun heavy Michigan and haven’t personally witnessed a single shooting in my whole life.

The minute one of Eric Holder's people gets his hands on a gun he has to commit a crime with it to see if it works.

20 posted on 04/18/2012 4:28:40 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (For every black person murdered by a white, thirty-nine white people are murdered by blacks.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

When you begin your article with a gross insult you sure as heck aren’t trying to convince anyone. Just trying to start a fight.


21 posted on 04/18/2012 4:29:20 PM PDT by DManA
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

let me guess...the Washington Post probably has metal detectors and armed security guards....correct?


22 posted on 04/18/2012 4:31:09 PM PDT by BookmanTheJanitor
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
A LITTLE GUN HISTORY:

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1977, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million!!!

SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN! SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE. SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property; gun control laws adversely affect only law abiding citizens.

23 posted on 04/18/2012 4:32:03 PM PDT by immadashell
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To: immadashell

What Good Can a Handgun Do Against An Army?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/2312894/posts


24 posted on 04/18/2012 4:42:08 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

You and I know that because we are rational human beings, not the target audience of this piece.


25 posted on 04/18/2012 5:17:25 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: precisionshootist; Joe Brower; CodeToad; Lazamataz

You make some outstanding points, thanks.


26 posted on 04/18/2012 5:23:28 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

How many times would the government send out an army just to kill one person?


27 posted on 04/18/2012 5:37:07 PM PDT by immadashell
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

***Let’s call that by its real name: vigilantism.” ***

3-7-77.


28 posted on 04/18/2012 5:40:59 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: cripplecreek

I bought a gun online from an LEO in upstate Michigan and at his police department’s website I learned some interesting facts or so it seemed.

Are Michigan handgun purchases de facto registered with local police complete with ten day waiting period and a requirement to have the handgun “inspected for safety” at the police station, followed by the issuing of a handgun owner’s permit that must be renewed annually?

Just askin’.


29 posted on 04/18/2012 6:30:30 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("Deport all Muslims. Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind.")
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To: elcid1970

Concealed Pistol License Renewal Information

A license to carry a concealed pistol issued on or after July 1, 2003, but before July 1, 2006, is valid for 5 years. A license to carry a concealed pistol issued or renewed on or after July 1, 2006, is valid until the applicant’s date of birth that falls not less than 4 years or more than 5 years after the license is issued or renewed.

An application is considered a renewal if the applicant has received a concealed pistol license under compliance of the training requirements set forth in the Act after July 1, 2001.

A CPL license is renewed in the same manner as the original license (see Application Information). The cost for a renewal license is $105.

Beginning January 1, 2007, an applicant who is applying for a renewal of a license is not required to have fingerprints taken again if the applicant’s fingerprints have been submitted to and maintained by the Department of State Police for on-going comparison with the automated fingerprint comparison system. The Department of State Police began storing applicant fingerprints on January 1, 2006. Therefore, an applicant is not exempt from this requirement unless the last time fingerprints were submitted was after January 1, 2006.

For an individual licensed after July 1, 2001, and subsequently applying for a renewal:

Pistol safety training course is not required
Applicant shall present a statement signed by the applicant certifying that he/she has:

Completed at least three (3) hours of review of the pistol safety training course and has at least 1 hour of firing range time in the 6 months immediately preceding the renewal application.


30 posted on 04/18/2012 6:40:50 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Fraxinus
"Agreed, however, the problem with the Zimmerman case in my opinion is the lack of a paper trail explaining why they determined that prosecuting him at the time of the incident was inappropriate. From what has been publicly released the charge of second degree murder is excessive and a charge of manslaughter is debatable requiring more evidence than I currently have."

I think the police did their job exactly correct in this case. They determined from statements from Zimmerman, physical evidence at the scene, and eye witness reports that this was in fact a self defense shooting and there was simply no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman. I'm sure there is more than enough paper trail from the police reports, interviews of Zimmerman and so on. The thing that people don't seem to understand and this is the reason for the existence of these special protection laws like stand your ground is that we DON'T EVEN ARREST innocent people, much less prosecute when there is simply no probable cause. I will add that with the physical evidence and eye witness reports had Trayvon lived, the police would have arrested him! What the determination of the police report essentially says is that Trayvon Martin was the perpetrator who was killed in self defense by Zimmerman who was in fact the victim.

31 posted on 04/18/2012 9:50:12 PM PDT by precisionshootist
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Hey,E.J....whaddya think Carl Rowan would have to say about this issue?
32 posted on 04/21/2012 5:44:33 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This article is a typical appeal to emotion from the anti-gunners.

The reason they haven’t been getting any traction over the last couple of decades is that the fact is that concealed carry and the proliferation of legal firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens have been very effective at reducing crime.

It’s in the “gun free” zones of places like Chicago and New York that gun crime is rampant - only the criminals have them.

“Stand Your Ground” laws are simple common sense. If someone threatens me with deadly force, I should have no obligation to retreat before defending myself. Period.


33 posted on 04/22/2012 7:20:56 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty (Pray for America!!!)
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To: precisionshootist

“In the end this prosecutor should be disbarred and the state held accountable for the prosecuting of an innocent man where there was no probable cause to even arrest him.”

I sure agree with this!

The most telling part of the political speech thinly disguised as the announcement of GZ’s arrest was the statement “Let me emphasize that we do not prosecute by public pressure or by petition”. She is in elected office, and she obviously bowed to public pressure. When in doubt, tell the BIG LIE! What a load of horseradish!


34 posted on 04/22/2012 7:27:24 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty (Pray for America!!!)
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To: cripplecreek

It has to do with control.

You have two cities, Chicago and NY. One polices well and one doesn’t. One has huge gun murders and one doesn’t. Gun control has nothing to do with it. It is a loser issue for the Democrats and it does not stop crime.

I wish Barack Obama comes out for gun control. Oh Please please.

Illegitimacy has more to do with inner city violence than guns. Maybe they should outlaw that.

It would be the political equivalent of swimming with cement galoshes.

See- Dionne ays they are afraid of the NRA, which is a falsehood. The politicians are afraid of the voters, they are losing on the issue!


35 posted on 06/02/2012 6:08:28 AM PDT by Titus-Maximus (Light from Light)
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