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What If Trayvon's Case Had Been About Rape?
The Root ^ | May 28, 2012 | Les Payne

Posted on 05/27/2012 10:01:20 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

The blame-the-victim treatment isn't right in sexual assault. It's not right in killings, either.

Consider this scenario: Aroused by an attractive teenager in a halter top walking through his neighborhood, a Sanford, Fla., man was instructed to stand down by police, but instead he provoked an encounter that ended tragically with the assault and rape of the 17-year-old girl.

After showing authorities scratches on his face and arms that he claimed were inflicted by the rape victim, the pursuer was promptly released by the local police chief that night after discussions with the detained man's father, who is a retired judge.

Sound familiar?

This scenario, minus the complicating race factor, approximates the rough outline of what we've learned about George Zimmerman's encounter with Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26. Contrary to distracting media accounts, the "Stand your ground" law is clearly not applicable to Zimmerman here because he ignored police instructions and advanced on Trayvon's ground. The ordinance may well apply instead to the victim's reaction to a man moving toward him with a Kel-Tec PF-9 9 mm pistol.

Though the hypothetical rape tragedy described here is not lethal, as it was in Trayvon's case, the "arousal" motive is similar, the execution approximate; and the behavior by officials should be no less troubling to those concerned about judicial fairness in a civil society.

Cops in both the real and hypothetical cases gave the aroused pursuer the benefit of every doubt and, in the Trayvon incident, initially dismissed the victim's defenders as frivolous petitioners, lacking the attacker's connection to city hall and police headquarters....

(Excerpt) Read more at theroot.com ...


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: georgezimmerman; trayvon; trayvonmartin; zimmerman
That is some serious pretzel logic and spin right there!
1 posted on 05/27/2012 10:01:32 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I have no idea who Les Payne is, but he sounds nuts.


2 posted on 05/27/2012 10:08:20 PM PDT by sockmonkey
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Mr. Payne, don’t quit your night job.


3 posted on 05/27/2012 10:08:20 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’d have to think long and hard before I came up with that analogy. Even then, I’m not sure that my mind works that way.


4 posted on 05/27/2012 10:08:35 PM PDT by berdie
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Tried to follow but brain can’t get there.


5 posted on 05/27/2012 10:09:18 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Trialkby press.hat about the due process rights of the “accused” and the presumption of innocence?

This is more propaganda fodder to enflame the so called “downtroden” into the riot stage for Obama’s anarchists.

Of course this is a well known tactic, used by other fascists out of history. Look no further than the Dreyfus case in France, or at the work of Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler. There is no difference in what they did to destroy the rule of law and subsitute it for totalitarian values, and what the Obama movement is doing today.Joseph Goebbels is their primer.

A prelude to race riots and possible civil war.

Welcome to the prelude to the United States of Zimbabwe.


6 posted on 05/27/2012 10:10:01 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascist info....http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Possibly one of the most vile pile of excerements I’ve read in a long time...


7 posted on 05/27/2012 10:11:21 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If Zimmerman was attempting rape, why would not ring the police. If the victim was a girl, Zimmerman would not be fearing for his life. If the victim was a girl, the girl would not approach Zimmerman if someone was stalking her


8 posted on 05/27/2012 10:14:01 PM PDT by 4rcane
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

what if TM was carrying 2 blunts and a bunch of pot?

afraid he’d get caught, since he already has priors, TM decides to attack GZ, beat him up, and make his escape? after all, GZ is a hispanic male who is only 5’9” and TM is at least 6’2”... should be easy to kick GZ’s ass

sound familiar? it should. it’s how many crimes involving blacks and another race turn out


9 posted on 05/27/2012 10:14:51 PM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: 4rcane

why=he


10 posted on 05/27/2012 10:15:09 PM PDT by 4rcane
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Huh?

There would be an analogy if Zimmerman had robbed Martin. Or if he had killed him for the thrill of it.

If the writer is going to play with that dubious thing the analogy he ought to practice with it a while before he takes it out in public.


11 posted on 05/27/2012 10:17:49 PM PDT by heartwood
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Aroused by an attractive teenager in a halter top walking through his neighborhood,

The author neglects to mention the rash of burglaries by attractive teenagers in halter tops, which had plagued the neighborhood prior to the imagined rape.

12 posted on 05/27/2012 10:18:01 PM PDT by Maceman
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If it was a girl who was victim ( armed ) and Trayvon was the rapist then the ending would be the same.
13 posted on 05/27/2012 10:18:51 PM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult (Liberals make unrealistic demands on reality and reality doesn't oblige them.)
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult

Silly me. That’s how I thought the article was going when I clicked on the headline. It really is amazing what we are up against when I see the “logic” attempted in this article. Hard to imagine a world-view so skewed.


14 posted on 05/27/2012 10:27:40 PM PDT by 21twelve
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Perverted logic, man.


15 posted on 05/27/2012 10:35:08 PM PDT by gitmo ( If your theology doesn't become your biography it's useless.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Oh, I get it! These stories you are finding tonight...they are all potential jurors! Right?


16 posted on 05/27/2012 10:35:51 PM PDT by Dogbert41 ("...The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God" Zech. 12:5)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Bullshit! Where’s the barf bag warning?


17 posted on 05/27/2012 10:46:51 PM PDT by metalurgist ( Want your country back? It'll take guns and rope. Marxists won't give up peaceably.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"scratches on his face and arms that he claimed were inflicted by the rape victim"

Being scratched doesn't excuse rape but it does give evidence of being attacked.


18 posted on 05/27/2012 10:51:38 PM PDT by I see my hands (If you say what you think then no one will like you.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Are we talking rape or rape-rape?


19 posted on 05/27/2012 11:04:30 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult

“If it was a girl who was victim ( armed ) and Trayvon was the rapist then the ending would be the same.”

Exactly, he intentionally confuses the victim with the assailant. He conveniently assumes that just because Trayvon was killed, he was the victim. All the evidence that has come out thus far seem to indicate that the opposite is true, i.e. that Trayvon was the assailant, and the fact that he was killed doesn’t morph him into a victim.

His analogy falls flat from the get go. From the point where he equates a harmless girl with a justifiably (based on earlier events in the neighborhood) suspicious character and then he compounds his error by changing Zimmerman from the defender to the assailant.


20 posted on 05/27/2012 11:08:25 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I tried to post, looks like they discourage debate.


21 posted on 05/27/2012 11:09:58 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It’s “a hundred and eighty degrees out of phase”.

Z is in a position analogous to a woman who has shot and killed an alleged assailant.


22 posted on 05/27/2012 11:15:49 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Debate? What’s there to debate? White Hispanic George “Skinhead” Zimmerman profiled, hunted down and executed Trayvon “10 year old choirboy” Martin, PERIOD! Just ask Big Al or Mumbling Ben.


23 posted on 05/27/2012 11:17:05 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What If Trayvon’s Case Had Been About Cannibalism?


24 posted on 05/27/2012 11:25:00 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: sockmonkey

aka Less Pain


25 posted on 05/27/2012 11:35:46 PM PDT by No One Special
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Hypothetical is how innocent people end up in prison when prosecutors don't have a case.
Zimmerman screwed up when he talked to the DA after his attorney told him not to
and they read him as someone who would plead to get out of it. Never talk to the police, EVER!

This straw man is missing a hat.

26 posted on 05/27/2012 11:43:54 PM PDT by MaxMax
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Here's how the analogy should work:

A 28 year old hispanic female who was routinely on neighborhood watch noticed a black teenager lurking about, and reported it to authorities. The authorities instructed her to stop following him, which she did.

But it was too late. The black teen, who had noticed her watching him, confronted her, asked her "Do you have a problem", to which she replied "no". He then lunged at her saying - "well you do now, cause I'm gonna knock you out and then rape your white ass"

He then punched her in the nose, pinned her done, and began pounding her head to the ground, and started to pull down his trousers. While doing this, he noticed the gun she was carrying by her waist. He went to grab for it, but she got to it first, and fired one fatal bullet through his heart.

Witnesses on the scene, along with the bruises and bleeding on her head, supported her claims of self defense in this shooting.

So now, anyone think SHE should have been arrested, simply because she shot someone?
27 posted on 05/28/2012 12:07:02 AM PDT by zencycler
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To: dr_lew

That is the way i see it. Mr. Zimmerman is the one who was assaulted and he defended himself.


28 posted on 05/28/2012 12:25:21 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Trayvon was lynched.
29 posted on 05/28/2012 2:32:43 AM PDT by tdscpa
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Lol


30 posted on 05/28/2012 3:10:18 AM PDT by windcliff
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Imagine if you will Mr. Payne if let us say a black female was on neighborhood watch and saw an unfamiliar white person wearing a tea party shirt walking through the ‘hood and she called the police and said “I think we have a white boy lost in the hood actin’ suspicious.” The police dispatcher then advised her to hold tight but she followed anyway. The next thing you know, the white guy was seen on top of the black female violently bashing her head into the ground “MMA style” and she, by the grace of god had a concealed carry permit and exercised her right of self defense and she fired one round and close range (after screaming for help) killing the white person.

See, Mr. Payne, it is easy to play this game.


31 posted on 05/28/2012 4:06:55 AM PDT by corlorde (forWARD of the state)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Contrary to distracting media accounts, the “Stand your ground” law is clearly not applicable to Zimmerman here because he ignored police instructions and advanced on Trayvon’s ground. The ordinance may well apply instead to the victim’s reaction to a man moving toward him with a Kel-Tec PF-9 9 mm pistol.


Well! Talk about twisting the known facts in the case. But I can be pretty well assured that the real facts are indeed the opposite of everything that is in this sentence.

And the part about moving toward Martin with a pistol. It is subtly presented here as Zimmerman holding the pistol in his hand instead of concealed in it’s holster.

The writer must have done very well in his creative writing/journalism course.


32 posted on 05/28/2012 4:27:21 AM PDT by The Working Man
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
So, if a "hottie" in a halter top attacks you, and tries to scratch your eyes out, you have to just stand and take it....

You know these folks, trying to twist things to come up with a "logical" reason why geaorge is guilty, are just sick at heart when they see how much twisting they have to do to come up with something that makes no sense. They all know George was defending himself, Trayvon took actions that got him killed, and they keep on wishing it wasn't so - it makes them see a bit of reality through the sickness and they can't stand reality.

33 posted on 05/28/2012 4:52:33 AM PDT by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Author Les Payne: causes more pain to readers of his illogical tripe.
34 posted on 05/28/2012 5:04:02 AM PDT by arasina (So there.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Trayvon’s ground? What?

Point is Trayvon was the major source of reasonable suspicion, probable cause and interference throughout this ordeal.

A 911 operator NOT on the scene is not the final manager and decider or responsible “REMOTE CONTROL” operator of what was going on.

This whole case is completely stupid except that self defense laws are being under attack because no one should investigate or be in the know than the government, according to these loonies.

There is something called balance of powers and citizens arrest for a good reason.

This should be a civil issue between government and their hiring system, not a criminal issue.

However, a criminal bullying inquiry is needed in order to create the shakedown.


35 posted on 05/28/2012 6:00:47 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is insane.

Why would the aroused man have been on the phone with the cops?


36 posted on 05/28/2012 6:18:50 AM PDT by rogue yam
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

You have violated posting protocol by not placing a barf alert in parentheses after the title.

Now I have to clean off my keyboard.


37 posted on 05/28/2012 6:31:20 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

To be commensurate with this analogy, Trayvon would have to had provided oral and then mounted Zimmerman. Only after the money shot would Trayvon have claimed rape.

The entire premise is stinking bovine excrement.


38 posted on 05/28/2012 6:35:51 AM PDT by MortMan (Americans are a people increasingly separated by our connectivity.)
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To: zencycler

Well Aileen Carol Wuornos got the needle.


39 posted on 05/28/2012 7:20:56 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
According to Dee Dee (the girl Trayvon was allegedly talking to on his cell phone during the incident), Trayvon made it home to his father's apartment, then went back out to confront Zimmerman.

That makes Trayvon the instigator.

All the evidence points toward Trayvon being the aggressor


40 posted on 05/28/2012 9:02:18 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Wow! Is he talking about the 10 year old Trayvon? Certainly, he is not talking about the thug-in-training Trayvon.


41 posted on 05/28/2012 9:06:36 AM PDT by Delta Dawn (The whole truth.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

There would have been less evidence...


42 posted on 05/28/2012 9:10:42 AM PDT by Delta Dawn (The whole truth.)
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To: sockmonkey; Amberdawn
I have no idea who Les Payne is, but he sounds nuts.
Formerly of Newsday, Payne began writing his column in 1981. The former Associate Editor was responsible for national/foreign and health & science news at the paper; he also served as the paper’s New York Editor.

http://www.newsday.com/columnists/les-payne

As a recovering Long Islander, I stipulate that the name “Les Payne” constitutes a barf alert for any knowledgable reader.
On the substance, Payne would have a perfect analogy - if the young Mr. Martin had been 5’ 2” instead of 6’ 2” . . .

43 posted on 05/28/2012 11:15:43 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which “liberalism" coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

and what if it had been about collecting beanie babies?

geez leftists are stOOpid


44 posted on 05/28/2012 1:39:54 PM PDT by Cubs Fan (whites are 8 times more likely to be victimized by black criminals than blacks by white criminals)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

and what if it had been about collecting beanie babies?

geez leftists are stOOpid


45 posted on 05/28/2012 1:40:17 PM PDT by Cubs Fan (whites are 8 times more likely to be victimized by black criminals than blacks by white criminals)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

and what if it had been about collecting beanie babies?

geez leftists are stOOpid


46 posted on 05/28/2012 1:40:17 PM PDT by Cubs Fan (whites are 8 times more likely to be victimized by black criminals than blacks by white criminals)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

When assaulted or raped, the assaulted woman has right to self-defense,and it does not matter who provoked it. The same analogy would apply to Zimmerman, a man who was being physically assaulted and had to kill TM in self-defense, a right that Zimmerman had no matter who provoked the attack. Now this race-baiter is trying to spin it up side down, and apply the analogy to TM, as the one who was acting in self-defense under attack from Zimmerman, the facts and evidence be damned.


47 posted on 05/28/2012 1:55:06 PM PDT by kp2hot
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